Could you imagine 45 million Americans living on $6 per day?

[Postman]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-12/04/content_9118785.htm

15 pct of Russians live on about $180 dollars per month....

[The Straight Story]

1. I could get a few meals at MCd's for that, or some beer.

I think I would alternate, beer one day, cheeseburgers the next :)

[DJ13]

2. No I cant, but Wall Street loves the idea

[napi21]

3. I could eat in that but I couldnt pay the electric bill, gas bill,

and taxes on the house every year. What we don't know is what those things cost in Russia. I've said many tines how do people survive in some coutries on $1, $2, or $5 a month? I have no idea!

[Duer 157099]

4. Well as long as the real estate market declines proportionately

Wonder how much Wall Street will like that?

[Go2Peace]

6. That doesn't happen. Look at Russia or China, the rich get exceedingly rich while the poor live on

nothing. And these are "new" and emerging markets, so the model actually sustains itself. The idea that our corporate owners cannot live the high life if our standard of living is collapsing is erroneous. The model is already in place.

[hfojvt]

5. Is that a PPP (purchasing power parity) number?

I don't even see how that is possible, although I probably did it in 1987 only because I lived in a mobile home that was paid for and had no electricity, wood heat, and no running water. Plus I ate lots of oatmeal and pasta.

[Go2Peace]

9. actually, if we allow globalisation to continue and don't interfere with the markets? About $400/'Mo

That is about where I think we will head without intervention. Simple economics states that we meet somewhere, but there are a lot more that are willing to work for much less than us, so naturally it has to "drag" our living standard down far more than theirs will go up.

And that is not even taking into account the great disparity between classes in the new "libertarian free market" model.

[Warpy]

7. What does that $180, translated into rubles, pay for?

How much is rent? How much do they get charged for basic staple foodstuffs, and how much is the mass transit to retrieve it? What is their health care like? How about utilities like water?

Don't assume they're paying US prices for the things they get. That's a massive mistake people make when they talk about some of the lower incomes in other countries.

Six bucks a day in the US would afford someone enough calories to barely stay alive on, but not shelter, clothing, transit, health care, or safe water. It might afford someone there minimal shelter with reliable water, used clothing, and the same starvation diet there.

The equivalent in the US would be what public assistance does locally. I imagine the lifestyle is about the same, although the Russian counterpart wouldn't have access to a $25 thrift shop TV or other amenities.

[Go2Peace]

10. That model doesn't work anymore. Globalization has had a dramatic affect on local prices

I have relatives who live in Ukraine. When I was there at the beginning of the decade food was very cheap, but now Food is almost the same price as here now. Housing? Almost all developing countries have seen dramatic increases in the cost of housing. Moscow is now the most expensive city in the world. The only reason you do not see much more homelessness is because their families still own apartments left over from the soviet union. But in the next few decades homelessness will swell, because you simply cannot buy even a 1 bedroom apartment on an average salary.


Remember, there are few things anymore that are not being sold on the global marketplace. Bread in Ukraine used to cost 35 cents in 2000, now? $1.50. Cheese, used to be $1.50 per Kilo (2 lbs), now it is $4.50-6.00. Bus transport? .15-.35 cents (depending on age), now? .75 (and 1/3 the number of busses running, so you will often pay more for "mini-busses").

Tell me, in the large cities apartments now cost $60k-$150k. Smaller cities are $35k-80k. Tell me, how can someone in a non primary city, making $250-300 a month, buy an apartment that costs $50k? They can't. The rich are buying them all as they come on the market because they have money they don't know what to do with.

Throw away the "old" idea of differing costs of living in rich vs poor countries. Globalization assures that goods equalize worldwide, but wages never seem to do the same. Funny how that happens.

[Warpy]

12. That's true, especially when there's a demand for local staples

I had a long conversation in a line at Costco about that very thing with a Filippino fellow who complained bitterly that I was buying dried mangoes cheaper than his family could get them at home, where they were produced.

However, the race to the bottom has still not been equal across currencies and my point that rubles will buy more in Russia than the equivalent in dollars will buy here stands.

Life on $180 rubles a month has to be at least as miserable as life on public assistance is in the US and for the same reason.

The world's wealth is being hoarded and is not being shared with the world's people.

The only question remaining is what we're going to do about that.

[LooseWilly]

8. Yes

[KillCapitalism]

11. Some live on less in America.

If you're unemployed and have been unemployed for so long that your UE benefits have ran out, then you're essentially living on $0 per day.

[juno jones]

13. I remember hearing that many russians still live

in the apartments they were assigned under the soviet system. It's one of the reasons they have weathered their economic storm since the fall of their empire. They also garden and do other things to supplement food and income.

We, on the other hand are going to be fucked if we have to live on that little, because we have no guarantees of food and shelter if we cannot afford it.

Maybe we'll wind up in those storage-space sized apartments like the chinese in that other thread earlier today.

And maybe we'll just have the frigidaire box in the alley. Our owners sure as fuck don't care.

[stray cat]

14. Americans have been well off for years compared to most countries and complain more

about our circumstances and are willing to do less to improve them.

[ret5hd]

15. and lazy too, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7143984&mesg_id=7144213