Gays 'will never go to heaven': cardinal

[ccharles000]

Homosexuals and transsexuals "will never enter the kingdom of heaven", a leading Roman Catholic cardinal said on Wednesday.

Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan said that while the Church regarded homosexuality as an "insult to God", this did not justify discrimination against gay and transsexual people.

"Transsexuals and homosexuals will never enter the kingdom of heaven and it is not me who says this, but Saint Paul," the cardinal said, in comments reported by the Ansa news agency.

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Barragan, the retired head of the Vatican's Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health Care Workers, quoted a passage from Paul's epistle to the Romans which speaks of "men committing indecent acts with other men".

"Homosexuality is therefore a sin, but this does not justify any form of discrimination. God alone has the right to judge," the cardinal said.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Gays_will_never_go_to_heaven_cardin_12022009.html

[LynnTheDem]

1. Cardinal is an idiot. Hopefully one day cardinal will meet face to face with Jesus.

And then cardinal will discover what CHRISTian is really all about.

[Flying Dream Blues]

2. "Misguided" is a nice way to put it. "Hateful idiot "is another way to put it.

And why does it seem that anyone with something hateful to say is followed around with a microphone these days? I'm sick of it.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

3. Oh and by the by, cardinal, RC priests used to include females, and

all RC priests were encouraged to marry.

And now that's considered a "sin".

Make sure you roast your ox downwind! Coz otherwise that's a sin, too.

Religion; fuck off.

[Brickbat]

4. If God alone has the right the judge, then why the hell are you listening to St. Paul, Cardinal?

Jeez Louise.

[AndrewP]

5. Obviously this guy is an idiot. Hope a time will come where this mythology

no longer has the gravitas that it currently is given.

[doc03]

6. Does that apply to all the child molesting clergy

and the people who covered it up?

[Kansas Wyatt]

7. +1

[SidDithers]

8. And the Catholic church becomes more irrelevant every day...

Sid

[MineralMan]

9. He's right. They'll just die when it's their time, just like

the Cardinal, who is expecting something that doesn't exist. Sadly, he'll never know that, since all consciousness ends with death.

Oh, yeah, one more thing: Say, there Cardinal. Nice dress.

[Sebastian Doyle]

19. Not only is the cardinal wearing a dress, he's also married to a man

Yeah, that man's name is Jesus Christ, and they aren't having sex, but it's still technically a "same sex marriage".

And this whole clergy doctrine of "celibacy for us, and eternal damnation for most of you" all came from the personal hangups of a guy named Paul who actually believed that even hetero marriage kept you from serving God.

[MineralMan]

26. Yeah, old Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus) did a real

number on Christianity. Yes, indeed.

[Blue State Blues]

30. Paul teaches a valuable lesson about conversion

and the limits of God's power.

As Saul of Tarsus, he was a judgmental ass who persecuted those who didn't believe the same narrow set of beliefs he subscribed to. Then, blinded by light, he converted.

Now, by the magic of conversion he's Paul. He's switched sides. He used to persecute the Christians, now he leads them.

And yet, he remains, as always, a judgmental ass who persecutes those who do not subscribe with his same narrow set of beliefs.

Conversion can happen, but once an ass, always an ass.

[Caliman73]

54. Yep. I never liked Paul too much, nor Augustine of Hippo

Never trust people who come late to the party and are all zealous about their "new" faith. Though some of what Paul said about love and service is ok, most of what he said about sin comes from his own "born again" perspective. Same with Augustine, a hedonist who had his fun then converted on request by his mother. Lots of sexual repression there.

[Skidmore]

10. "God alone has the right to judge"....

perhaps the Cardinal should put aside his judgment and practice what he preaches. He is not God and it is not up to him to decide who gains entry into heaven by his own stated beliefs.

I absolutely loathe the institution of that church and the endless iterations it has spawned over the centuries. Not one group actually followes the teachings of Christ.

[Johonny]

20. If there's no heaven

then I guess he's right :o

[RKP5637]

11. Who the fuck ever wanted to enter his heaven to begin with! If these guys

represent heaven, give me hell! What a brainwashed moron, christ these guys think they are so damn special. Who gives a rat's ass what they think! They set themselves up on such pedestals, a bunch of self serving fools with a flock. They are clearly the devil in disguise. Why can't people figure that out, I guess they are so brainwashed too. What a bunch of moronic sheep.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

18. +1

[Jamastiene]

57. That's the same way I view it.

I don't see how "Heaven" can be a good place in any way if that bunch are there. Hell would be a break from them...finally. I like those odds much better than the thought of spending eternity with them.

[get the red out]

12. He probably wants a "youthful" heaven

I am sure he would prefer mostly litte boys in his "heaven".

[Irishonly]

13. when did God put him in charge?

And why does this stupid bishop think normal people give a rat's patootie what he thinks?

[nykym]

14. Maybe he and the idiot mayor from

CA should get together.
Link to that post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7138509

IMO why would anyone in their right mind alive or dead want to spend all eternity with a group of bigoted, hate filled, oppressive, homophobic, social outcasts such as these god fearin' people!

[golddigger]

15. Somebody needs to open their "Holy Bible" to the story of...

King David and Jonathan.

David was bi-sexual, read (1 Samuel 18:1) "And it came to pass, when he (David) had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul...And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved he loved as his own soul."

With this deep Martial-like love spelled out. They went on to make a love contract. In (1 Samuel 20:41) "They (David and Jonathan) kissed each other and wept with each other until David exceeded."

In (2 Samuel 1:26), "My brother Jonathan you have been very satisfying to me. Your love for me was wondrous, surpassing the "LOVEMAKING" of women...I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of woman."

It seems old Jehovah didn't have a problem with this.

[Sebastian Doyle]

27. Did you see that recent TV show "Kings" on NBC?

It was a modern day retelling of that part of the Bible even though King Saul was renamed "Silas" and his son Jonathan was renamed "Jack". What was odd was that they actually DID make the Jack character gay, but there was never any indication that he would be involved with the David character. Though David was still banging the king's daughter.

Oh well, at least they got it half right.

[MercutioATC]

16. "Heaven" is their concept. They get to make the rules.

I think that when we die, we go to Funkytown.

Only midgets get in. Period.

[adamuu]

17. what a twisted mess

How does this work, exactly? I thought Christians believed in absolution? "NEVER" as in , not even if one accepts Jesus Christ? I was told that was all that was required. I'm so confused...

[Ernesto]

21. Heaven would be HELL for me if I went there and

it is full of fairy tale believing wackos like the cardinal.

[RKP5637]

28. Exactly!!! n/t

[krabigirl]

43. seriously...what a horrid place. Boring, too. Hanging around judgmental freaks.

[Hekate]

22. What about rapers of children?Are they an insult to God?Are they acting against nature & the dignity

... of the human body?

Or does this screed only apply to adults who love each other and not to priests who abandon their vows of chastity and abuse children in their care?
:grr:

Hekate

[RKP5637]

29. Oh, they don't count! You see, they are men of god so it's OK in the church's eye,

nothing applies to them, they are ever so special. Their role is to tell everyone else what to do, make up the rules/interpret as they go, and cast hell and damnation on everyone else... because they are so very special. Damn jerks, hypocrites and bigots!
:grr:

[avaistheone1]

55. Priest rapers are still allowed to be active priests.

They still receive and give communion as well.

Go figure.

[MotorCityMan]

23. And my parents keep telling me I should go to church

:eyes:

[gkhouston]

24. Cardinals know as much about heaven as I do about jet engine repair.

And Paul's "teachings" reveal more about his personal issues than they do the workings of any divine spirit, IMO.

[bridgit]

25. The Rabbi says everyone will go to heaven, there'll just be separate seating arraignments

[arthritisR_US]

31. I wonder if pedophiles get to enter the kingdom of heaven? n/t

[Hekate]

38. According to Jesus, probably not: Matthew 18:6

http://bible.cc/matthew/18-6.htm

New International Version (©1984)
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Douay-Rheims Bible (aka Roman Catholic version)
But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Hekate

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. I keep waiting for the Vatican to start rolling out the millstones and enforcing that one.

Rome's not actually on the coast, but it's close enough that they could hang the millstones around the pedophiles and then take them all down to the sea in a bus.

[MH1]

32. why would they want to, if it is full of intolerant people like him?

[Initech]

34. Yeah really. Besides hell is where all the good music is.

:evilgrin:

[krabigirl]

42. +1. That's what I used to say in my CCD classes.

[Initech]

50. I like what Bill Hicks said:

"Music doesn't have satanic messages if you play it backwards. And if you can play music backwards - you *are* Satan!"

[TexasProgresive]

33. A story

Apologies to whoever came up with this story. I’m doing this from memory.

One cold afternoon there was a meeting at the seminary with the cardinal, his associate bishops, the rector and seminarians. It was damp and cold in the large room except by the fireplace where his eminence was holding court.

Several of the seminarians were huddled in the cold discussing various things. One was telling of a dream of Hell he had the night before.

“So, Jack,” “what was Hell like?”

“It was just like here,”he replied.

“Come on Jack, dish up!

“Just like here all the cardinals and bishops were closest to the fire.”

[Libertas1776]

35. Oh, but I'm sure "God" welcomes with open arms

members of an hierarchical institution that turns a blind eye to, and willingly hides, pedophiles amongst their ranks from justice. The leadership of the Catholic Church is nothing more than a facade of pomp and Prada pageantry concealing a two millenia old group of greedy, sleazy, perverted old men.


Plus, if "heaven" is filled with A-holes like these, who the hell (no pun intended) would want to spend an eternity up there?

[Toucano]

36. What are they, the Church of Paul? Show us what Jesus said about the subject.

...
...
...
<crickets>
...
...
...

[freddie mertz]

37. Screw him. And screw the clerical hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

They are nothing but a clutch of grasping hypocrites and criminals, not to mention serial child-rape enablers.

Cast them out of the temple!

PS: I was raised Catholic and retain a sense of loyalty to the institution despite its current reign of error.

I want the Church to reverse its terrible course and start to do RIGHT by its people.

In other words, it is the hierarchy I despise, not the Catholic Church or the Catholic community as a whole.

[Hekate]

40. Screw them? Nah--already been done. ;-)

;-)

[MattBaggins]

39. People who diddle children will not get into heaven

much much much worse evil there cardinal dipshit

[krabigirl]

41. I don't believe in any of this, but I always said I'd rather (more)

go to hell and be whipped by crazed demons than be in heaven with judgmental Christians. I'm around them enough...I think an eternity with these people WOULD be hell. And the music would suck.

[Union Yes]

44. Mathew 7:1 "DO NOT JUDGE, lest ye be judged."

This cardinal is breaking a tenet straight from the bible.

I expect bible literalists to condemn his soul. He himself should be condemning his soul.

[Ganja Ninja]

45. Ain't no heaven, ain't no burning hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYSbaInp04

[imdjh]

47. Wanna hear something hilarious???? Uganda is majority Catholic!!! LOL!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. St. Paul Was Talking About Pedophilia Not Gays

At the time of his writing Paul was writing about men having sex with young boys. Adults of any orientaion shouldn't be having sex with children.

[Cybergata]

49. What a boring place heaven is if gays aren't there! n/t

[Arugula Latte]

51. I wish people would stop supporting this stupid, corrupt church. nt

[Nikki Stone1]

52. If Jesus were alive in body today, he's be hanging out with the rainbow crowd

and fighting the powers that be.

[RKP5637]

58. 100+, n/t

[mnhtnbb]

53. Blah, blah, enablers of pedophiles, blah, blah, misogynists, blah, blah, Inquisition,

blah, blah, self-righteous hypocritical a$$holes creating fear in people so the patriarchal
hierarchy of the Catholic Church can live in splendor. Ever seen the Vatican?