Oh my woe is me, the unemployment figures are

[doc03]

improving, all the stock indexes are up, gold is down and the dollar is up. Wait a minute, oil is up I feel better now what is Obama going to do about that?:bounce:

[theophilus]

1. Haven't you heard? Any good news is meaningless. You will be informed soon, no doubt. n/t

[tridim]

2. How DARE you post good news.

It's practically a sin on DU these days.

[tyne]

3. Don't forget the other downer

...the banks are repaying the money we lent them.

[doc03]

4. Oh my I forgot about that one. n/t

[redqueen]

8. deleted

[Subdivisions]

96. Where is that money coming from? n/t

[treestar]

29. It's so cool to be a cynic

Makes you better than everyone else. :sarcasm:

[NNN0LHI]

5. Why do you hate Merca?

:hi:

[jpak]

6. FLAME!!1111

Only bad anti-Obama horseshit is allowed here

go fly a kite

:hi:

[redqueen]

7. deleted

so long as anyone anywhere is suffering, we are not allowed to be happy about anything.

[jpak]

10. Based on what economic data?

I know - none

But if you wish and wish and wish really hard, the economy just MIGHT roll back into recession and everything will be better.

what horsehit

:thumbsdown:

[redqueen]

11. I was conveying the sentiments I'd seen shared elsewhere...

(the thread on manufacturing orders in LBN... the thread about declining job losses in LBN)

then I felt guilty for mocking the DOOMERS cause ... you know... someone somewhere is suffering.

[asdjrocky]

9. There's a lot of people who are hurting.

It's not feeling sorry for yourself to say something about it. This kind of stuff is really unproductive.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

17. Thanks for saying that.

Some people such as myself still lie awake at night worrying how we're going to make ends meet. Being over 50 with health issues makes it pretty hard to find a job at the moment.

I'm glad that things are improving for some people, but right now I'm too worried about our own financial situation to become elated.

That doesn't mean that I'm anti Pres. Obama and his policies. It just means that this country is still pretty (blanked) up due to what transpired previously.

I hate to sound selfish, but my main concern every day is when are things going to get better for me and my wife.

[asdjrocky]

20. No problem at all.

Some people still remember this should be a season of giving and understanding, not partisan muck raking. Good luck to you and know you're not alone.

[janx]

27. And reading the negative on DU helps?

I'm in worse shape than you are, I assure you, and every time I read a slew of economic negativity here, it makes me feel WORSE, not better. How could that make you feel better?

[Altoid_Cyclist]

39. Where did I say that I feel better?

My point was that there are still people struggling.

I'm not sure what I said to upset anyone so explain to me what was it that I said to prompt your response.

I know that this place has become overly divided recently, but I really want to know what I said that was offensive.

[janx]

44. You didn't say anything that was offensive.

:shrug:

[Altoid_Cyclist]

50. Mea Culpa!

I thought that you were upset with my post and I just didn't know why.

Sorry that I misunderstood you.

As I said, people here (including myself evidentally) just seem a little irritable lately so I get paranoid about posting anything related to war or economics.

:toast:

[janx]

58. Some of us get tired of reading negative posts about

the job market and economy. I'm with you in uncertainty and circumstance, believe me. There are some DUers who post DOOM posts incessantly, and it's not good for people who wake up in the middle of the night. One day it made me physically ill.

Don't be paranoid about posting anything, please. ;-)

:toast: backatcha!

[Subdivisions]

103. So, if reality portends some level of doom, then said reality should remain unspoken? Everyone

should just find something better to talk about? Like kittehs?

I can do that.

:)

[tonysam]

56. Some 15 million at least

If the figures showed job CREATION, then it would be really good news. A figure which shows fewer job losses doesn't mean anything.

The problem we have in this economy is we have too many people chasing too few jobs. That may be good news for Wall Street, but it is bad news for Main Street.

[Umbral]

12. Employment numbers improving going into the holiday season, who'd a thunk it. nt

[redqueen]

14. Unemployment numbers are seasonally adjusted. (nt)

[dysfunctional press]

87. wanna bet that these numbers will be adjusted down the road...?

in a downward fashion?

they are trying to rah-rah people into shopping for christmas, with the expectation that all the economy needs is a good 'jump-start' of consumer confidence.

unfortunately, most stores don't accept confidence as a valid form of payment.

[redqueen]

99. Seeing as how the past months numbers have been adjusted downward

I would not be at all surprised.

However I'm not sure that's what you meant to convey by "downward".

[Romulox]

13. Honest question: How can add'tl jobs be lost, and yet the unemployment rate go down?

I assume that the "only 11,000 lost jobs" claim is net of any jobs created...

If the above is true, the only logical way for unemployment to drop as job are lost is for people to drop off the roles of those counted as "unemployed"--e.g. because their unemployment benefits expired...

[Subdivisions]

95. The significantly revised the Setp and Oct numbers down without any corrolating

increase in actual, physical, people on a schedule jobs.

[AllentownJake]

15. I would ask you to read the actual report

However, you will focus on the shiny U3 number and not ask any questions on how it got there and than I will be insulted for asking people to read.

So enjoy your "good news"

[Subdivisions]

23. I see most revisions of Sept and Oct numbers along with a -11,000 on an

expected loss of 159,000 jobs. With this news of a drop of .2% in the UE number, the Dollar, which was being pounded, jumped up 1.63 and the rate on 10-year rate Ts jumping up to 3.47. Gold is being pounded and is down $30 from it's record highs reached this week. Stocks jumped nearly 200 points early, but the DOW is now down -10, a drop of nearly 200 points in one hour's time. (Still looking for the reason for that - could be a bit of bad news re: Dubai).

So, it looks like the numbers are convenient for anyone wanting to boost the Dollar, the interest rate on 10-year bonds, and bring rising gold prices under control.

Any cheerleaders of today's report are welcome to give their detailed analysis. In the meantime, this report is being called a surprising "tectonic shift" on Internet financial/economic analysis and discussion circles, basically catching everyone off-guard. Can we believe today's report? Well, I have my doubts - but then I'm no expert. And there are still in excess of 15,000,000 people without jobs.

[AllentownJake]

24. Always liked you nt

[Subdivisions]

32. Thank you =). Like you said, all anyone has to do is read. Or, more like

it, read BETWEEN the lines. They don't have to be experts. They just have to READ and RESEARCH - AND DO SO WHILE SETTING POLITICS TO THE SIDE.

All the Obama-praising in the world isn't going to change a report designed specifically to create certain market responses - responses that conveniently please our creditors (read China, et al). And, from the looks of the President right now in PA, and having heard his reaction when given the report by Romer, this "tectonic shift" of a report sure has done wonders for his demeanor, though he still looks very, VERY, tired.

And, on a related note: I cruised several economic boards and discussions yesterday where it was leaked by the Obama Admin that there may be a tick UP in the UE number. What better way to boost the bottom line than to leak the possibility of a negative report only to then come out less than 24 hours later with a report that to some represents a "tectonic shift" to the positive side. And boy did the markets react positively! Well, mostly...but surely exactly where it counted most.

[tonysam]

69. It's a psychological game. If people believe the economy is improving,

then they will be more likely to spend money, etc., and the hope is it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[tonysam]

66. When JOB CREATION bounces upward, then I'll cheer. Right now

the figures don't mean much.

[dana_b]

90. I read your thread

and people STILL don't want to believe it or somehow think you and some others are just negative nancys. Thanks for explaining it to some of us less educated people.

[kentuck]

16. delusional

dangerously so.

[tonysam]

18. There are still 15 million unemployed and there is not one damned

thing that is being done about it other than extending UI.

[Subdivisions]

19. How many new jobs does that .2% increase represent? n/t

[AllentownJake]

21. -11,000

They took some people out of the labor pool.

[FBaggins]

35. Not quite right

There are two different datasets. The one that reported an 11k loss doesn't impact the unemployment rate. The household report (from whence commeth the unemployment rate) implies a fair increase in the number of employed individuals.

[Subdivisions]

40. Would you please flesh that out a bit... links, analysis? Thanks. n/t

[FBaggins]

76. Sure

I don't have links handy, but it's pretty straightforward. The unemployment rate is based off of a large survey (60,000 people) called the Household Survey. Some employed... some unemployed... some out of the labor force (and as you know the definitions change depending on which measure of unemployment you're looking at).

If you take that subset of the country and expand it out as a representation of the entire labor force, you'll have an estimate of how many people have jobs. The unemployment rate COULD go down without adding jobs if the labor force shrinks... and/or it could go down because more people are working. In this case, both measures changed... but the number of jobs DID increase.

The other survey (the "establishment survey) is a much larger count that surveys employers all around the country and attempts to actually count how many people are employed. It's ALSO an estimate... but based on a far larger sample size.

Both surveys have problems. If someone leaves a company and starts his own business... he won't hit the establishment survey but would show up in the household survey (presuming he's one of the people surveyed). OTOH, if that same guy is working two jobs at once he "counts" twice on the establishment survey but only once on the household survey.

You see the -11,000 because that's the survey that is generally used to count jobs... but you won't get two economists to really agree on which one is more "accurate".

It's fair to say that by one measure (the most accepted one), 11,000 net jobs were lost... but by another perfectly valid (but different) measure, quite a few jobs were created.

[Subdivisions]

85. I once never thought I would be interested in this stuff. Now, each

little piece of the puzzle makes the bigger picture clearer and clearer. Thank you! =)

[Kahuna]

22. It must be that jobs summit the Prez held yesterday. Damn, that was fast work!

Go Prez. :yourock:

[tridim]

25. Like clockwork, the doomers are now here to piss on the good news.

No doubt they'll be here with their predictable doom-spin until Obama's last day in office.

"5% unemployment is just not good enough, it should be 0%! Is this the change we voted for? Wahhhh, wah wah wahhhhhhhhh"

"wahhh wah wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...."

Eternal pessimists SUCK, DU'er or not. They suck in every bit of positive energy they can and spit it back out as a negative talking points. It's a reflex action for them. It makes no sense, has no point and is less than counter-productive, yet they keep rolling on.

It must really suck to live in your skin. I hope you start feeling better soon, I really do.

[Raineyb]

26. Gee, then I guess all of us out there who are still in trouble should just stfu huh?

Thank you for that thoughtless bit of mental vomit. It was most needed this morning.

:sarcasm:

[treestar]

28. shouldn't you be cheered up by the prospect of improvement?

I do not believe anyone unemployed would really poop on this news.

[tridim]

30. I'm unemployed and am ecstatic at just the reversal of the trend.

These people are professional doomers, nothing more. They get off on bringing people down.

[treestar]

34. Amen. I am self employed and business is way down

This sounds good to me.

[tonysam]

64. What trend? That job losses have stemmed? Whoop-dee-doo.

Jobs aren't being created, not nearly enough for all of those who are seeking work.

[treestar]

79. How can that be a bad thing?

The only other option is job losses increase!

[tridim]

84. I think that's what he wants.

Everything good is spun into a negative by these folks. You might call it a "trend".

[tridim]

81. Yes, stopping the job losses is a trend.

A trend in the right direction, and a trend that started almost immediately after Bush left the WH.

And yet you and your fellow doomers hate this recovery for some reason. :eyes:

Makes one wonder.

[Fumesucker]

36. An actual job would be what would cheer me up..

I don't see that happening any time soon at all, given I'll be sixty in a few months.

Just for insurance purposes alone no one wants to hire older workers.

But I'm sure single payer insurance or the public option will take care of that.

What's that you say, single payer is off the table and the PO is going to be pathetically weak?

Well I'll be dipped in shit.

Edited because the poster can't punctuate for diddly today.

[treestar]

80. But job increases are more likely is job losses stem

I don't see how improvement in the overall situation could be bad.

[Subdivisions]

38. I read somewhere yesterday where 24 states are seeking to borrow

money to shore up their Unemployment Insurance programs, which are running dangerously low in some states and with some states already broke.

Can't find a link right now. But, for those whose unemployment benefits have run out or are about to run out, today's news doesn't mean shit. But, then, I also realize that jobs recovery cannot be manifested instantly and it will be a long time before everyone is back to work.

[tonysam]

63. It'll be YEARS before the economy is back on track, but Obama

is not in favor of any widespread job creation that would get it going sooner. He's not going to get re-elected if he doesn't do something about the fact this economy is generating too few jobs.

[tridim]

72. You're just lying now.

Typical doomer.

[JonQ]

43. Well, if McCain had won

and things were exactly the same this would be a "jobless recovery" at best.

People do seem willing to excuse things from "their guy" that they wouldn't be so understanding on for "the other guy".

[Bobbie Jo]

31. but...but...we should be at 100% employment by now!

:eyes:

[treestar]

82. This is not the change I voted for!

Er, I mean, not the really hyper fast change I thought I voted for~

[Nikki Stone1]

33. Link please?

Thanks.

[taught_me_patience]

37. It is clear the job losses have stemmed

but this 11,000 jobs lost is pretty bullshit. You gotta look deeperYesterday's ADP number was minus 150k and initial claims have been running at 475k average for the month. Something seriously is not connecting here. Also, the drop in unemployment was because about 860k dropped out of the labor force. They've been unemployed so long that they just gave up looking for work.

Read the release here:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

About 2.3 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force in
November, an increase of 376,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not sea-
sonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and
were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12
months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched
for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. (See table A-13.)

Among the marginally attached, there were 861,000 discouraged workers in
November, up from 608,000 a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally ad-
justed.) Discouraged workers are persons not currently looking for work be-
cause they believe no jobs are available for them. The remaining 1.5 mil-
lion persons marginally attached to the labor force had not searched for
work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey for reasons such as school attend-
ance or family responsibilities.

[Subdivisions]

45. Good point, taught_me_patience. While there are clearly less people applying

for unemployment assistance, the 11,000 number is market-stimulating nonsense. Though I have read the report you linked from BLS, I didn't queue in on the discouraged workers portion, having skimmed over it. So, I thank you for pointing it out.

[tonysam]

54. It's a bunch of PR b.s. which is designed to help people feel more confident

The reality is few jobs have been created and millions and millions of people are chasing too few jobs.

I am reminded of the cliche, "figures lie and liars figure."

[tridim]

71. Are you against the recovery?

We're pulling out of this major recession and for some reason it pisses you off.

I'd like to know why you feel that way.

[Subdivisions]

91. Looks to me like he's against being fed bogus propaganda that is

designed to promote a feel-good attitude that is not justified by present conditions. They revised the bad numbers from Sept and Oct, which nullified what economists were expecting to be another 159,000 jobs lost in Nov, netting instead just 11,000 jobs lost. This had a positive effect on the markets today, especially the Dollar.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=s

It's all a manipulated game that the players have lost control of and they are now attempting to whitewash it for as long as possible.

[tridim]

94. The trend is in the right direction. Period.

Keep on dooming, we can recover without your help.

[Subdivisions]

98. So, you interpret revising down the numbers for the two previous months as

being "in the right direction"? That's a really convenient way to make Nov numbers look great! But, where are the actual corrolating jobs and economic activity? Well, you're right about one thing: the facts do indeed present a doomy situation.

Oh, and just so you know, I have a job. And, I spend every dollar I make between paychecks. I'm contributing as hard as I possibly can to help revive this economy.

[tridim]

101. Then why are you campaigning against recovery on DU?

[Subdivisions]

107. I'm not campaigning for collapse. I'm simply bringing awareness

to the reality of the situation. I don't "advocate" for an economic collapse. That would just be crazy. Heck, I'm out there 30 minutes ago here in N. Texas walking my dog and freezing my ass off. No way do I want an economic collapse that could potentially leave me in that environment having to scratch around for something to eat. I live paycheck to paycheck, literally running out of money a day or two before my next paycheck arrives. I work in a very tenuous position that would likely be eliminated in a collapse scenario. I'm in a position to see what my company's revenue is. I have an idea of expenditures. I'm VERY scared of a collapse.

But discussing it and making others aware of what is really going on, and not having 100% faith in media and government information, seems to be taboo here. It's like we're required to post about lillies and daisies and kittehs all the time, ignoring anything that makes us uncomfortable or insecure. I've been studying this issue for awhile now and, from what I can gather, the system upon which all of us lives is fatally flawed and WILL COLLAPSE to some degree further than what it already has. I've been talking about this since long before it began, as has many other DUers. People laffed and laffed and laffed at the warnings. The BAM! The housing bubble popped. Yet, here we are in the midst of it and they're still laffing and laffing and laffing. And whining, too, whenever the topic comes up.

Woo Woo!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. I demand that Tim Geithner be fired immediately.

How dare he do a good job! He should be replaced with some outsider who doesn't know shit about how the economy works!

[Subdivisions]

46. Please show how Geithner did a good job re: the jobs situation. n/t

[JonQ]

42. After some of the tricks they've pulled I will remain skeptical

on unemployment data, stock indexes and the dollar are more relevant and I will remain cautiously optimistic on that front (although, doesn't that happen most every christmas season?).

[Subdivisions]

47. And isn't it convenient that today's report boosted certain ecomonic indicators

that would make our creditors very happy? Dollar up. Stocks up (at least they were earlier). 10-year rate on T-bonds up sharply. Gold down.

Very convenient.

[JonQ]

49. Yep

so put the emphasis on "cautiously" in "cautiously optimistic".

But frankly after the jobs this administration has claimed to have created and the ways they've cooked the books on unemployment and earnings, really I don't trust anything they have to say on this front.

[Subdivisions]

51. Well, they sure created or save lots of jobs in this report from Sept and Oct:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for September was revised from
-219,000 to -139,000, and the change for October was revised from -190,000 to
-111,000.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=s

Isn't that nice? ... And convenient? For our nation's creditors. Like China.

[JonQ]

59. Amazing

they are so brilliant and so clearly know what they are doing that they were able to save over 100,000 jobs in two months, retroactively! Show me another president who can actually time travel to make the past and thus present, a better place.

[Subdivisions]

61. Don't get me wrong. This isn't about President Obama AFAIAC. He's only

as good as the people working for and advising him. Considering the clowns he has working on financial matters, it's no wonder such a bullshit report would be their product.

[tjwash]

48. Don't you love people that have an almost sexual-type desire and urge to see the economy collapse?

It borders on a fetish. We have several posters here that go in to full celebration-mode when the DOW or Nasdaq has a down day.

[RagAss]

52. I betcha they're buying stock too ! Nothing like scaring others out to buy low !

[dysfunctional press]

89. buying stock with what, exactly...?

unemployment checks don't usually leave a lot for discretionary spending.

[Subdivisions]

53. Yeah. They're pretty sick. n/t

[tonysam]

55. Who wants it to collapse? What nonsense!

But facts are facts. Where are the JOBS? They aren't being created, and it appears Obama is not in favor of any large-scale job creation program, which would actually get the economy back on track. Right now there are 15 million people chasing only 3 million jobs. This is unacceptable.

A PR blurb about job losses doesn't mean shit. Seriously.

[Subdivisions]

60. But you're not allowed to look at facts. Looking at facts gets you labeled.

You're supposed to walk around with your head in the clouds pretending the Ponzi Scheme life we've lived in all these years will never collapse and the rich can get richer and the poor can get poorer - well - FOREVER!

I remember all the posts I made warning about all this. I knew about simply because I didn't believe everything CNBC told me. I read and researched. And, people laffed and laffed and laffed. What a woo-woo I was!

The Cloud-Heads don't bother me anymore. When this thing finally spins out of control, they'll come around. They'll have to. Then maybe they'll advocate a bit more earnestly for a solution to this nation's bubble-based Ponzi Scheme of an ecomomic policy, ETA: a house-of-cards economy rooted in a declining and finite energy source.

[tonysam]

62. As I've said, if companies were hiring, it would truly be good news, but

that isn't what is going on. If the figures are to be believed, it's that fewer people are losing their jobs. It just doesn't mean squat for the millions upon millions of people who are now out of work and can't find jobs because so few are being created.

[Subdivisions]

68. Well, it will be very difficult for them to "revise" the Nov number down in

order to make the Dec report a rose-smelling pile of dung. I was in construction (now semi-retired) for 25 years and I remember so many Dec layoffs. It is common in the construction industry. So, there will be more jobs lost there along with the seasonal jobs that will be lost, PLUS I suspect (admittedly from a layman's perspective) more manufacturing and white-collar losses. I predict a pretty bad Dec.

[treestar]

86. It means recovery

And that is good for the future.

There's just no way to claim that only a right-now miraculous recovery is acceptable.

[freddie mertz]

78. Not me. I have a TIAA-CREF retirement fund...

And I am just now recovering some of the losses.

[janx]

88. Glad to hear you are recovering some, Freddie!

TIAA-CREF enjoys a good reputation.

[freddie mertz]

93. It could have been much, much worse.

Fortunately I am a "conservative" investor.

Stayed pretty much out of real estate.

I wish had put more into foreign currencies, though.

[JonQ]

109. Pointing out when something is happening is not the same

as wanting it to happen.

I acknowledge that the stock market kind of tanked this year, does that mean I wanted it to? Well, I lost some money in the process so no, I would say it doesn't.

[freddie mertz]

57. The numbers are still pretty grim.

You are easily impressed.

[redqueen]

65. We are coming out of the worst economic climate since the great depression...

good luck in your continuing effort to spin that as a negative.

You have lots of company.

[freddie mertz]

73. I am not spinning it one way or the other.

10 % is still very bad, and its a teensy little drop.

I hope we see real improvement soon.

[redqueen]

75. I'm amazed that you're not even aware of what you

(and the rest of the doomers) are doing.

[freddie mertz]

77. I am not a natural optimist, I'll admit.

Never have been.

But even taking that into consideration, I think celebrating when faced with 10/17 % unemployment numbers is a bit premature.

[tridim]

92. That's what blows my mind too.

However I do think some of them know exactly what they're doing.

[jpak]

67. Grimmer than what - January's numbers?

-741,000 jobs lost in January when GDP was tanking at -6.4%?

Those numbers were "grim"....

[freddie mertz]

74. It's still very bad.

At best right now, we may be plateauing.

I hope the trend continues.

But right now, I still have a lot of friends and family out of work.

[natrat]

70. stock market sold off 200 points

[SemiCharmedQuark]

83. What is Obama going to do about you feeling better? Easy: War Escalation.

[girl gone mad]

97. How about under-promising and over-delivering for a change?

You want people to celebrate a still bad jobs report with its phony birth/death model revisions and 69,000 lost productive jobs (replaced by crappy service jobs) like it's the economic equivalent of a religious revival.

Come on.

You guys make me laugh sometimes. Didn't anyone teach this administration the most basic element of PR? Don't promise a heavyweight with a killer right uppercut and bring out a featherweight who's never even boxed.

[tridim]

100. These job numbers were much better than projected.

Recovery is something to celebrate because the other option is another great depression.

Would you rather we were heading into a depression? Kind of sounds like it.

[girl gone mad]

102. Better than who projected?

Certainly not the administration.

[tridim]

104. Yes, better than projected.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/national/story/225547.html

WASHINGTON - Employers shed 11,000 jobs in November, far fewer than projected, and the unemployment rate fell two-tenths of a percentage point for the month to 10 percent, two surprising Labor Department surveys reported Friday.

Mainstream economists had projected that the economy would lose another 150,000 jobs in November, but the Labor Department's survey of businesses found a net loss of 11,000.

snip

Such horrible news, eh? :eyes:

[redqueen]

105. Aw, why do you hate intellectual dishonesty? (nt)

[tridim]

106. I'm thinking about starting up DoomerUnderground.com for all these Chicken Littles.

Might as well cash in on their 24/7 doom before they figure out how how silly they sound.

[Junkdrawer]

108. "Temporary holiday jobs in retail and other sectors, a slowdown in layoffs"....

The unemployment rate for November was 10 percent and the economy lost only 11,000 jobs — an improvement from October, according to statistics released Friday.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the November numbers are improvements from October’s 10.2 percent unemployment rate and 190,000 job losses.

Temporary holiday jobs in retail and other sectors, a slowdown in layoffs and gains in health care helped offset continued losses in construction and manufacturing.

...

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/11/30/daily51.html

Excuse me if I don't feel like leading a cheer just yet....

[JonQ]

110. I believe those were called "McJobs"

when the previous president bragged about creating them, now they are the sign of a robust and grown economy.

[upi402]

111. getting smacked with a 2X4 instead of a 2X6...

is still getting smacked. I know a lot of untold stories and stoic folks suffering silently - one guy living in a shed. This guy played by all the rules and is very capable. But he is not being counted because he has been unemployed so long.

Others living off of family because they work less than half time. The lucky ones are working full time, but for a LOT less money.

And that's just the stories that I have heard. I wager there's a few more not getting touted in the corporate media.

[The Straight Story]

112. Obama has been prez less than a year, economy is lagging indicator, so thank bush

;)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

113. It's Christmas time, cheer up. Things will get worse again in January.