Mathew 7:1 "DO NOT JUDGE, lest ye be judged."

[Union Yes]

Man does NOT have the authority to judge sin.

No one on planet Earth has the authority to judge sin.

Yet man judging sin remains the most ignored tenet of bible literalists and reich wing fundies.

I'm a gay man. When bible literalists/fundies attempt to pass judgment on me for my gayness, they are violating a literal tenet written in their bible. The Bible "says" so.

If there is a god, let her judge me. It's biblical.

When a literalist/fundie judges a woman for having an abortion, that's man judging woman or woman judging woman.

Let god do the judging. Again, literalists, it's biblical.

NO MF'er ON THIS PLANET HAS THE AUTHORITY TO JUDGE MY "SIN", EVER!

[Ozymanithrax]

1. Conservatives are rewriting the bible to remove the liberal parts.

I am sure that Mathew 7:1 will the the first liberalism to go.

[peekaloo]

12. Judge not, ye activist judge!

[tabatha]

2. Right wingers judge ALL the time.

[RagAss]

6. They can judge this right here !

[TexasObserver]

3. Unfortunately, being judgmental is Job One for many "Christians."

They tend to ignore all the things Jesus actually told them to do or not do.

He said don't judge. He said visit those in prison. He said not to put one's faith in material goods. He said to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and care for the children. He said not to be pompous about praying or giving charitably.

If Jesus said to do, they probably don't.

The whole point of the story of the adulterous woman about to be stoned was that even if a person commits a literal violation of the rules, they still deserve forgiveness and compassion, that being judgmental is inappropriate, because all have committed wrongs.

If Jesus could come back today, he'd be imprisoned and tried again, if he wasn't beaten to death in some church bearing his name or title.

[phasma ex machina]

14. It's my understanding that Jerusalem's aristocrats, the Sadducees, actually crucified Jesus

for interfering with their money making racket of changing Roman coins into temple money. Rome's Legions jealously guarded the status of Roman coin as the world's only legal tender. OTOH one could only use temple money to buy a temple offering. Usurious fees on money changing generated obscene profits for the Sadducees in the middle. Ergo they rented a mob to crucify Jesus after he upset their business. (Roman Legions also enforced Rome's exclusive right of execution.)

Anyhow, right after Mt 7:1 Jesus starts joking about people failing to see the 4X4 stuck in their own eye.
:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

15. Romans crucified him. Some locals wanted him dead, however.

They may have wanted him dead, but it was Romans who crucified him, using a Roman punishment, for yet another Palestinian rabble rouser of the era. They crucified over 3000 in the same spot. Jesus was just one of them.

Assuming he existed at all.

[phasma ex machina]

19. Most serious scholars at least grudging accept the existence of a man named Jesus.

Regardless of whether you think Jesus was a madman or a messiah, the Bible is an impressively credentialed work of ancient literature.

Addendum:

Of course Romans crucified Jesus. Only Rome, and Rome alone, could crucify people. The Legions enforced it.

That's why the Sadducees troubled themselves with renting a mob and threatening riots to coerce Rome into crucifying Jesus.

[TexasObserver]

23. Most serious scholars say there's too little evidence from the era to know.

The story of Jesus contains many typical elements of the hero myth common to that region in that era and preceding it.

Jesus may have lived, or he may have been a legend. He's only unique to his adherents, most of whom don't know enough history to know that his legend is similar to that of other heroes. Half the Sermon on the Mount was lifted verbatim from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predated Jesus by over 2000 years.

The story of Jesus certainly has connections to the astro theology of the ancients, and parts of his story likely originated there.

Just as the stories told by Scientologists and Mormons laud their heroes and are purely fiction, so may the stories of Jesus.

And if he did live, his name wasn't Jesus. That's a Greek word, just like Christ is.

[phasma ex machina]

24. There are at least 19 early pagan writers who refer to Jesus Christ as an actual, real-life,

historical figure: Tacitus, a great historian of Rome, Suetonius, also a historian; Pliny the Younger, one of the leaders of the Roman Empire; Epictetus; Lucian; Aristides; Galenus; Lampridius; Dio Cassius; Emeritus; Annianus; Marcellinus; Eunapius; and Zosimus. Some wrote entire works about Jesus, such as Lucian, Celsus, Porphyry, Hiercales, and Julian the Apostate.

[TexasObserver]

26. Based upon one dubious source.

You can believe all you want to, but your beliefs are faith, not fact.

[phasma ex machina]

27. The Testimony of Tactius offers a great starting place for scholars

Tacitus was a Roman historian writing early in the 2nd century A.D. His Annals provide us with a single reference to Jesus of considerable value. Rather frustratingly, much of his work has been lost, including a work which covers the years 29-32, where the trial of Jesus would have been had he recorded it. Tactius and Jesus

[TexasObserver]

28. Heard it all before. Not interested in it or you.

Go here and talk to someone who shares your need to believe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=214

I've wasted all the time I care to arguing with the religious about their superstitions and delusions. You're just another zealot with a need to constantly reassure yourself.

[phasma ex machina]

29. Thanks for the debate anyhow. Peace. nt

[Dr. Strange]

4. Wait.

You're saying that they're wrong for judging you?

[trotsky]

5. Leviticus 19:15 "In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour."

I understand what you're saying, but the bible is so chock full of contradictions you can justify pretty much anything.

[treestar]

7. This sentence appears to be inconvenient for most Christians

Therefore, they ignore it. Maybe they will go to hell for ignoring it. Along with not giving all they have to the poor.

[The Straight Story]

8. You left out part of it:

Matthew 7:2 (New International Version)

2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

So some WILL judge others believing that when they are judged they used the same measurement for themselves.

IE: I didn't do such, but you did, so feel free to judge me with the same stick.

Problem is - they (and many others) always seem to miss the value judgments behind such measurements.

I will avoid going in to that here...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. You are very very wrong in your interpretation

the judgment that is forbidden is judging the PERSON. You are right that I have no right to judge you guilty or not...however, the bible clearly states that sin (as defined in the bible) is to be seen and dealt with. However, the dealing with sin is mostly dealt with in a limited fashion to members of the faith. There are passages that deal explicitly with sin in the church and how to handle an unrepentant sinner. God is the judge of person...but Man has every right to judge action.

sP

[Adsos Letter]

13. Yup. Combine this with TheStraightStory's post

and that quote gains its actual context; and that is where the meaning lies.

I always viewed Jesus' use of it in the Sermon on the Mount as practical advice on the stance we take toward others, ie: remember that the attitutde you take toward others, and the degree of compassion you show, will probably be meted out to you should you come under scrutiny for your (inevitable) "missing of the mark."

And, within the context of the church community there are, indeed, a quite specific set of procedures for addressing unrepented of transgression, as you noted.

[cbdo2007]

21. I think your interpretation is too literal....

as the quote is not meant to be a commentary on whether or not you should judge others. It is more a quote about the sin in your own life, and to not point out someone else's sin without looking at yourself and recognizing your own flaws and fixing them.

"Judge not, lest you be judged yourself" - because we all have sin, pointing out anyone else's sin is hipocritical (sp?)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. the quote itself says it all...

"Judge not, lest YOU be judged." The quote is that you should not judge others or YOU (not your sin) will be likewise judged. I agree with you that it is more about YOUR sin than that of others. However, the OP seems to believe that we are to make no judgment calls at all and that is simply not true. We are told quite clearly, as members of the church, to see sin for what it is. We are to confess our sin and counsel one another about failings in our lives. Without being able to identify sin, the church cannot avoid it. I think the reason we are called to recognize the sin (and technically hate that sin) and not judge the sinner is because we have two problems in that area. 1) We are not perfect ourselves (which tends toward your point). 2) We have no idea the circumstances of the life in question and what could have led them to where they are.

Christians, however, fail miserably at this. They (many of them) seem to identify the sin AS the sinner and not be able to separate the two. Also, Christians what to impose their definition of 'sin' on persons who are not of their faith. Expecting someone who does not believe as you do to live up to your creed is kind of nuts.

sP

[Better Today]

10. So if I find that everyone is already judging me, what does that do to the saying?

[Bushknew]

11. Is there any difference in judging and expressing your opinions? Our belief system is all about judg

Our belief system is all about judgements.


Whether you believe in the bible or not it has some sound advise.


Matthew 7:15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but

inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.


People can say anything but actions do speak louder than words.

Think how the world would be if we followed the golden rule.

I'm sure we can all find things we don't agree with that is said in the bible but we shouldn't
throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.

[stray cat]

16. So its ok if we nuke Paksitan or any other country

and police and courts are not needed

[stray cat]

17. SO QUIT judging conservatives or calling someone a bigot....

Your interpretation is a two way street -

[Initech]

18. Preach it!!

Fuck, stamp it on their foreheads!!!!

[reggie the dog]

20. I agree with you all the way

But most fundies do not actually care what is written in the bible.

[Romulox]

22. "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye..."

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Mat. 7:3

[Soylent Brice]

25. ...

:popcorn: