Help with another idiot Birther please.....

[sellitman]

Below is from a birther who refuses to believe President Obama is a Natural Born Citizen of The USA. I am not a Legal Scholar but his logic smells funny. What would you say to him?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



For your information, the term "natural born citizen" appears in our Constitution, in Article 1, Section 2, with these words, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

Before the Constitution, the closest reference we have to Natural Born Citizen is from the legal treatise "The Law of Nations" written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758. That Treatise was relied upon by our Founding Fathers in drafting the Constitution and is even referenced by them in it. Here is the link:

http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/vattel/

In Book 1, Chapter 19, § 212 captioned "Of the citizens and natives" it states

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens." While Barry’s mother was a citizen, his father was not! He, therefore, is admittedly not a "natural born citizen" and, thus, not qualified to hold the office of President. He is a usurper whether or not he was born in Kenya or Hawaii.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. His faulty logic is that the "Law of Nations" isn't the constitution.

It doesn't matter if it was "relied upon" or not. They didn't include that wording and therefore, it isn't the law of the land.

[grantcart]

2. All children of a single US citizen, mother or father are citizens.

The constitution makes no other distinction except for naturally being born in the US or its territories.


It is an idiotic argument.

[hughee99]

12. Otherwise, would any child who didn't know who his father was be a citizen?

After all, if you don't know who the father is, how can you be sure BOTH your parents were citizens?

[kestrel91316]

27. Very good. And adoptees would also by definition not be citizens.

[nxylas]

3. I wouldn't say anything to him

It's a waste of time. Birthers literally cannot be reasoned with.

[hughee99]

9. Exactly, if reason and logic had any influence on them, they wouldn't be Birthers to begin with. n/t

[superduperfarleft]

4. It doesn't matter what some idiot on the internet thinks "natural born" means.

The law (and evidently its interpretation of what the "Founding Fathers" believed) states that you're a citizen if at least one parent is a citizen. Period.

[MineralMan]

5. I'd just give him a WTF look and say nothing.

[Iggo]

6. Tell him he shoulda voted for somebody else, then. (n/t)

[immoderate]

7. Parents is plural because natives is plural.

It doesn't say that each native has to have both parents as citizens.

--imm

[KatyMan]

8. This is a really not nice response (vulgarity) but

I'd say "How can someone as stupid as you know enough to fucking breathe?"
I come from a family of 8 brothers and sisters. I now speak to one, thanks to this recent election. Although, in 2000, I severed ties with all of them because of their fucking idiocy. One has come around.

[catbyte]

10. Just tell him to take a freaking nap until 2016

because nothing you could say will ever convince that jackass that "Barry" is a citizen. No amount of proof will change the fact that President Obama is an unacceptable color to that creep and his ilk.

My best advice is put his e-mail address in your killfile.

Diane

Anishnabe in MI

[sellitman]

13. I don't even know this turd

I did a "reply all" to a Snopes proven false repiggy chain letter and this moran replied. I just want to have fun with him.

[atreides1]

11. Explain to idiot boy that a reference isn't the law

While the Founders may have used that treatise as an example, the wording of the Constittution is very clear:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Regardless of who his father was, President Obama was born a US citizen.

[WeDidIt]

19. They didn't use that treatise as an eample, though

It was written in France in 1758. IT hadn't even made it across the Atlantic, let alone be translated to English, by 1776.

And the first English translation was written 12 years after the constitution and mistranslated the original French.

[Orangepeel]

40. couldn't most of the "founding fathers" read French?

not that it matters, but most of them were well educated, right? At the time, I would have thought that meant having the ability to read French.

I'm just curious.

[WeDidIt]

42. It was an obscure text in 1776

No known copies existed on the American continent in 1776.

And the original French has a phrase that was incorrectly translated as "Natural Born citizen" in 1788.

[ohheckyeah]

14. Now Palin has jumped on the birther bandwagon.

What a shock.

Sarah Palin declared on Thursday that the legitimacy of President Obama's birth certificate is "rightfully" an issue with the American public, and that it is "fair game" for politicians to question Obama's citizenship.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/palin-goes-birther-obama_n_379634.html

[nxylas]

31. True, you should question everything

If, however, you continue to believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya after being presented with contrary evidence that should satisfy any reasonable person (the short-form birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii), then you are no longer questioning, your mind is already made up.

[ohheckyeah]

32. Funny that this is the first time

I've ever heard of anyone challenging a president's birth.

[pdxmom]

15. Ask him why he's trying to interpret the U.S. Constitution based on

the writings of a Swiss national. I thought those right-wing nut jobs wanted to impeach Ruth Bader Ginsburg for invoking "international law".

[The_Commonist]

16. And yet none of these people complained of the fact...

...that John McCain was born in Panama.

[WeDidIt]

17. "Natural Born Citizen" NEVER appears in "The Law of Nations"

It was originally written in French.

The terminology was inaccurately translated to "Natural Born citizen" 12 years after the constitution was written.

What they are reading didn't even exist when the constitution was written.

[MNDemNY]

18. Tell him..."neener neener neener, Obama is President and he can do nothing do about it, neener!

[leftynyc]

20. Either the constitution

defines the term natural born citizen or it doesn't - it doesn't. Period, end of conversation.

[mnhtnbb]

21. I'd say the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court administered the Oath of Office

and if it's ok with him, it's ok with me.

And in case your friend doesn't remember, the current Chief Justice was a Republican (Bushie boy)
appointee.

End of discussion.

[Union Yes]

22. Tell him to take his arguement before a federal judge and get laughed out of court. nt

[sellitman]

24. I told him his Law Degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Yes......he claims to be a lawyer.


LOL!

TY everyone.

[ohheckyeah]

23. By the way,

it's not Article 1, Section 2. It is Article II, Section 1.

[izquierdista]

25. Here, this should help

Wave it about to attract the birther's attention and then throw it just over his head.

[catbyte]

26. Thanks a lot, izquierdista

I just sprayed a grape I was eating all over my keyboard as I read your reply. It was effin' hilarious!

Thanks for the Friday afternoon laugh, :rofl:

Diane

Anishnabe in MI

[Canuckistanian]

34. LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[walldude]

28. Tell him to see this judge:

Federal District Court Judge Clay Land. I'm sure he'll be happy to hear the case.

[tabatha]

29. Here is an in-depth site about this subject.

All of his questions should be answered here:

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/the-natural-born-citizenship-clause-updated.html

[EC]

30. Tell him to get over it...

but just in the first paragraph is something your birther seems to not get...except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, there's that little word "or" in there...

[Kingofalldems]

33. Tell him the whole thing was part of DU's Plan X

[edbermac]

35. What would I reply?

Obama is a US citizen born in Hawaii.
He will be President for the next 7 years.
You guys lost, get over it.
Now fuck off.

[Canuckistanian]

36. Seems odd that a Birther would use the words of a FRENCH INTELLECTUAL

To make an argument for what a "pure American" should be.

[Beaverhausen]

37. Obama is the 7th president with a foreign born parent

http://www.examiner.com/x-9404-SF-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m7d31-Birthers-Obama-is-the-seventh-president-with-a-foreignborn-parent

[treestar]

38. Just went to findlaw and found this for you

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t05t08+5195+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%288%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%281401%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20

It is 8 United States Code, Section 1401, which clearly says birth in the U.S. and has no requirement that a parent be born in the U.S. In fact many of the sections show you can be a citizen with one parent born in the U.S. when you yourself have been born abroad

And for giggles, birth in Panama

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t05t08+5199+0++%28%29%20%20A

Section 1403

I had found that earlier. To prove McCitizen was a citizen, it would technically require not just his BC, but one of his parents. But in his case did they worry? :rofl:

[Orsino]

39. Ask him why having a foreign-born parent *should* disqualify one from the presidency...

...and yet the law of this nation should bow to a Swiss philosopher.

[lunatica]

41. My first thought was to tell him to

fuck off. I have no use for willful idiots who are also proud of it and wear their idiocy like a badge.