Amanda Knox- guilty on all charges

[Beaverhausen]

on CNN now

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html

[virgogal]

1. OMG.

[azmouse]

2. Wow

Her DNA wasn't found at the murder scene. I wonder what they based the verdict on?

[malaise]

8. Many of the people picked up in Muslim countries were thrown into

US black holes with a lot less evidence. That's the problem with Bush justice - no one outside of the US gives a flying fuck about this young lady. Being American is no longer enough to be always innocent.

[azmouse]

10. I never said they should have found her innocent because she is American.

I was wondering what evidence they used to find her guilty.

[tonysam]

25. And people shouldn't believe every bit of bullshit the European tabloids

spew.

48 Hours pretty much debunked the nutjob prosecutor's case. The real killer had already been tried and convicted.

[BurtWorm]

67. The lead prosecutor is the same lunatic who's been fucking up the Monster of Florence case

Making up ludicrous stories about a Satanic cult, throwing journalists in prison, letting the likely suspect completely unperturbed. His minion seems to be following in his footsteps. She made an insane statement about "these times" being an age of "purposeless crimes." This is tabloid justice.

[Syntheto]

46. Uh, this was in Italy...

... not here.

[ecstatic]

11. She "confessed" under torture

"Knox's defense team noted in court that over the course of the five days that followed the slaying she was questioned by police for more than 53 hours. The last questioning session on Nov. 5, 2007, went into the early hours of the next morning and ended with Knox's breaking down and claiming she had been in the flat the night of the slaying.

She also falsely accused Congolese pub owner Patrick Lumumba of being the killer. "

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412932_knoxverdict04.html

[azmouse]

14. Wow again

Sounds like grounds for an appeal.

[superduperfarleft]

26. Sounds like something that goes on in US police stations everyday.

Not that it makes it right...

[tonysam]

30. It was also trial by tabloid.

She was "guilty" the minute she was arrested. The tabloids convicted of her on bullshit "evidence."

[superduperfarleft]

33. "But Marge, listen to the music, he's evil!!!" n/t

[TokenQueer]

49. You are correct. She was railroaded.

Anyone that wants to know how the Italians handle criminal cases must read 'The Monster of Florence' by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi.



http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Florence-Douglas-Preston/dp/0446581275/ref=tmm_pap_title_0



While the book is devoted entirely to the gruesome serial killer case, the paperback edition has a new afterword that focuses solely on the Amanda Knox circus.

[Syntheto]

47. Stop...

...for chrissakes.... people actually tying in America and Bush to this? That's disgusting.

[superduperfarleft]

52. I think you missed my point, but whatever. n/t

[tonysam]

27. I'll bet whatever appeals process there is in Italy wouldn't do squat

Italy's legal system is completely corrupt.

[malaise]

77. Knox's DNA was on the knife handle

and the murder victim's DNA was on the blade.

That ought to be included in the discussion.

[taterguy]

3. Holy Fucking Shit

Kinda sorta wish I had the slightest idea of who Amanda Knox was

[justabob]

5. American student in Italy charged with murdering her roommate nt

[azmouse]

6. She's an American student in Italy.

Her roommate was found murdered a few years back.

[JVS]

62. IIRC it was some kind of study abroad drug fueled sex orgy gone murderous

[bluestateguy]

4. I don't know who that is

nt

[DesertFlower]

7. very disappointing.

i really think she is innocent.

[Fire1]

9. Sentenced to 25 years!!! Wow!!! Stay out of Italian courts!! n/t

[DesertFlower]

12. italian courts? i'll stay

out of italy. americans have no rights in foreign countries.

[taterguy]

15. As opposed to a typical murder sentence in American courts?

[Fire1]

20. I guess that's pretty lenient by comparison. n/t

[cali]

24. actually, you'd be wrong about that

murder sentences vary widely. Just today a man in Utah got 12 years for the first degree murder of a 19 month old.

[Shell Beau]

57. I don't know the details of that case, but that sounds way too light of a sentence

for 1st degree murder. Especially for someone as defenseless as a 19 month old.

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. Indeed

With time for behavior, Ms. Knox will still have a life, and will probably be released when she's around 35. In American courts, you do 40 or more years for a murder like this.

[npk]

23. She would have gotten life in prison in America

Hell considering that she was also charged with what would equate to felony sex charges here in the US at the time of the murder she could have been found guilty of capital murder, which would have been an almost automatic death sentence. 25 years for murder is very lenient.

[cali]

31. not necessarily. sentences vary widely for murder as this story

from today illustrates:

Judge reduces jury's sentence in child's death

GETS BREAK
Larry Neeley: He was facing life in prison with parole possible. A judge suspended all but 12 years and gave him credit for the time he's served.


By MATT BARNARD World Staff Writer
Published: 12/4/2009 2:22 AM
Last Modified: 12/4/2009 5:29 AM

A Tulsa County judge handed a lightened prison term Thursday to a man whom a jury had sentenced to life in prison for killing a child who had been left in his care.

District Judge William Kellough suspended all but 12 years — with credit for more than a year already served — of Larry Neeley's sentence during an emotional hearing Thursday morning.

Neeley, 36, was found guilty of first-degree murder in October in the death of Jason Joseph "J.J." Hall, who was just shy of 20 months old when he died from blunt force trauma and a lacerated liver.
snip

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20091204_11_A1_ATlaCu620474&allcom=1

[npk]

43. True it does vary. n/t

[FarCenter]

13. Meredith Kercher trial: Amanda Knox guilty of murder

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/6729714/Meredith-Kercher-trial-Amanda-Knox-guilty-of-murder.html

The jury decided that Knox, 22, and Sollecito, 25, killed the 21-year-old student from Coulsdon in Surrey together with a third man, Rudy Guede, who was convicted in a separate trial last year.

Knox, from Seattle, and Italian Sollecito, were incriminated by DNA evidence and by their confusing and contradictory accounts of where they were on the night of the murder, Nov 1, 2007.

<SNIP>

The jury, which consisted of six lay jurors guided by two judges, accepted the prosecution’s case that Knox recruited Sollecito and Guede, 22, to force Miss Kercher to take part in a violent sex game.

While Sollecito forced Miss Kercher onto her knees, Guede sexually assaulted her from behind while Knox taunted her with a knife, finally plunging it into her neck and ripping open her throat with three savage cuts in what prosecutors described as a “crescendo of violence”.

<SNIP>

Prosecutors said the American was a manipulative, narcissistic sexual thrill-seeker who had fallen out with her British flatmate in the few weeks they had lived together in the cottage in Via della Pergola, which overlooks a wooded valley just outside the city’s imposing medieval stone walls.

They said Knox was sick of being criticised by Miss Kercher for not pulling her weight with the house work and for bringing men back to their shared accommodation.

Weeks of tension exploded into violence, with Knox and the two men subjecting the Leeds University student to the degrading sexual attack, prosecutors said.

The prosecution case rested on two vital pieces of DNA evidence - traces of Miss Knox’s DNA on the handle of the presumed murder weapon, a kitchen knife, and a smudge of Mr Sollecito’s DNA on the clasp of Miss Kercher’s bra.

The Kercher family, who have asked for GBP 22 million in compensation for the loss of Meredith, were in court to hear the verdict.

[Warpy]

36. Funny that there was no blood evidence

such as the spray pattern at the scene and bloody clothing retrieved from the trash.

You can't slash somebody's throat without making one hell of a mess.

This one has always smelled really bad to me.

[TorchTheWitch]

44. there was a lot of blood evidence

and her throat wasn't slashed it was stabbed a few times. Apparently, she was also strangled.

[goldcanyonaz]

16. In Italy the jury is allowed to research the case on their own...

They are not sequestered from reading, doing research, watching the news, etc.

The jury there also consists of only 8 members; which are 6 layman and 2 judges.

She never had a chance in hell of not being found guilty.

I hope she is released on appeal but her appeal can not begin until the courts write the verdict which won't be until late summer of next year.

[Shell Beau]

58. If that is true, that is beyond messed up. I do believe any type of

juror should be sequestered when the case is so huge. With all of the media outlets these days, opinions can be easily swayed. What a shame. I don't know if she did it or not. I didn't hear the evidence presented. I only heard what I did on the news, but being able to research your on your own as a juror seems somewhat dangerous. I know we have a FAR from perfect system, but that is just messed up IMO.

[LisaL]

69. Really? Being informed is messed up?

I realize US courts limit how much a juror can know, but I certainly do not agree with that.

[EndersDame]

82. Being informed by sensationalistic tabloids when deciding the fate of a young girls life is fuckedup

[Shell Beau]

84. Thank you. Exactly.

[Blue_In_AK]

17. From what I know of the case,

it didn't seem like there was much physical evidence. I'm a bit surprised by the verdict.

[Mass]

18. Amusing how this thread is quickly turning to jingoism.

I am not sure that the Italian justice is great, but given this country's record, may be we should stay a little bit quiet and be happy that Italy had the decency to eliminate death penalty.

I have no idea if this young lady is guilty or innocent, but I am not sure I will trust OUR media on this. I wish her the best and that her trial is reopen if she is really innocent.

[Christa]

21. I agree with you

We have lost the moral high ground when we started throwing people in Gitmo, without trail.

What do you think would have happened if it was here in the US and an Italian confessed to murdering an American?

I wish her the best as well.

[Mass]

22. I was not even thinking about Gitmo, but about the basic american justice.

How many innocent people in jail even though they are innocent for racism or just because they could not have a decent lawyer.

[tonysam]

34. So it's okay what happened to her because of what goes on here.

I can't believe it.

[malaise]

42. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Isn't that the truth

[Shell Beau]

59. I know our system is FAR from perfect. Beyond far from perfect.

There is no perfect system, but that doesn't mean we can't have an opinion here. Our system may be far from perfect and downright shitty at times, but it is still better than many others out there. I don't know much about the Italian's justice system, so it is hard to compare for me. But I will still voice my opinion. I don't know if she did it or not, nor was I in the courtroom to hear the evidence, but this whole trial has been weird from the get go.

[harkadog]

45. You think Italy has any "moral high ground"?

After what they did in WW II? Long before Gitmo.

[tonysam]

29. That's about the only good thing about Italy's "justice" system

The rest of it reeks of corruption, far, far worse than here.

[treestar]

83. Is there any proof, other than this case (for which is has not been proven either)

that Italy's system is "corrupt?" Or is that just mafia stereotyping?

[NYC Liberal]

37. Jingoism? Individuals aren't countries.

Probably ~95% of DUers (leaving out the trolls and those who love to be contrarians for the sake of it) ALSO condemn our own justice system when it fails. Now, if a Freeper who is all for the DP, loves torture and thinks Gitmo was like a vacation resort, were saying something, then yeah.

Anyway, I'm going to have to read some more about the case and the trial before I really make up my mind on this.

[unabelladonna]

63. i noticed that as well

isn't it possible she did murder ms. kercher? i'm offended by the way the cable shows are accusing the italian judicial system of being corrupt, of using 15th century rules and only fair "if you're connected".....isn't that the same of every other country on earth? i find it hard to believe knox was railroaded. pretty 22yr olds actually are capable of murder (even americans).

[ShortnFiery]

19. Good. IMO, justice has been served. eom.

[superduperfarleft]

28. You think this is justice?

"Knox's defense team noted in court that over the course of the five days that followed the slaying she was questioned by police for more than 53 hours. The last questioning session on Nov. 5, 2007, went into the early hours of the next morning and ended with Knox's breaking down and claiming she had been in the flat the night of the slaying.

She also falsely accused Congolese pub owner Patrick Lumumba of being the killer.

Knox faces a civil slander suit as well as criminal charges for that false accusation.

Knox contends that police coerced her under harsh questioning that included two cuffs upside the back of the head. No attorney was present. Police say she was an informed witness giving voluntary statements and deny she was mistreated."

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412932_knoxverdict04.html

You'd be raising all unholy hell (and posting stupid pictures from the website you must have open all the time) if this happened here in the US, but you're okay with a verdict based on torture if it happens in Italy?

Jeez...

[tonysam]

32. There are people who will always try to change the subject

An injustice is an injustice, no matter where it happens.

[Fumesucker]

39. It's not justice but it's most certainly "justice" as defined in much of America..

This kind of crap goes on every day in the land of the free and no one blinks an eye.

We wouldn't be having people exonerated by DNA evidence on a pretty regular basis here if there weren't a lot of people wrongly convicted.

[superduperfarleft]

40. And what does that have to do with anything?

I admitted above that her experience with law enforcement sounds like a pretty standard investigation here in the US, but the OP of this subthread was the one who said "this is justice" when you know she'd be all yuppie white liberal indignant if this exact same thing was happening to a black man in the states.

I don't care who it is: this girl was tortured, and to see people trying to deflect that fact with "Well it happens here" is just asinine.

[Fumesucker]

61. Not trying to "deflect" anything..

Just pointing out that our own society does exactly the same or even worse on an extremely regular basis.

And if you pointed out already I apologize for being redundant.

[TokenQueer]

50. Also she had only been in the country for a couple of weeks...

...and spoke very little Italian. No translator was provided.

In addition the district attorney equivalent, Mignini, threatened to charge Amanda's attorney as an accomplice to silence her in the media. Mignini was tried for abuse of office in 2008 after letting the serial killer the 'Monster of Florence' go free while he zealously pursued 'leads' that supposedly tied the killings to satanists. See my post upthread...

[superduperfarleft]

51. I'm actually currently reading a book on autonomous social movements in Italy

and it's very eye-opening regarding how, to put it bluntly, royally fucked up the Italian system of government is. Sarah Palin would fit in nicely with some of them. It makes me think that the Black Panthers would've begged for our system of "justice" if they'd been subjected to the Italian version.

[TokenQueer]

55. I hear ya!

Amanda was arrested before they had even processed the crime scene. Mignini spun a graphic 'drug fueled sex party' theory to the press. The whole thing is a tabloid cluster-fuck of gigantic proportions.


On edit:

What's the name of the book you are reading?

[superduperfarleft]

80. "Subversion of Politics" by George Katsiaficas.

http://www.akpress.com/2006/items/subversionpoliticsakpress

It's mainly about anti-capitalist and radical social reform groups in Italy and Germany from the 60s to now, but it does a great job, IMO, portraying the state of Italian society, at least at that time, and how incredibly conservative it is.

He's got another one that's on my to-read list about similar movements in South Korea that add a little more context to the constant "riots" we always see on the news.

[cali]

35. of course you do. she's an American and therefore must be guilty.

:puke:

[LisaL]

70. Someone can be an american and guilty. Ever thought about that?

[NYC Liberal]

38. Wow, I just saw that elsewhere

I haven't followed the case too closely so I don't know whether I think she's innocent or whether justice was indeed done here.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

41. Observing her behavior from the beginning, I have to say that I'm not surprised at all.

[TorchTheWitch]

48. neither am I

I think all three of them - Knox and the two men - were involved.

[Thickasabrick]

60. Did you follow this from the beginning? I read somewhere that when

the police came she had a bucket and bleach - is that true?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

64. Like I said, I observed her behavior and how it was being reported

Incongruent for someone being charged with murdering her roommate.

This article is dated April 2009, but the claims are not new. This is what was being reported then. From the onset, it was like a big game to her. Based on her behavior, I had always assumed she had had a psychotic break.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008977057_apeuitalyknoxinspotlight.html

[Hassin Bin Sober]

66. I'm always bothered when people or police take in to account a suspect's behavior or demeanor.

I guess it is because I'm one of those people who try not to show emotion or deflect with humor. I always figure I could have been convicted, based on my lack of perceived emotions, of my mother's death if she hadn't died of natural causes. Little did everyone know I balled like a baby every chance I got to be alone. Even my boyfriend, to this day, jokes that I don't have tear-ducts.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

71. Ah, I see. I was like that, too, when...

...my father died. It wasn't until I lost my puppy 3 years later that I discovered my tear ducts.

That said, the crime was grotesque, occurred in her confines to her roommate, and was being pinned on her. Too glib.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

79. Have you seen this 48 Hours report?

The most damning part is from a reporter who almost got "satanic" crimes pinned on him by the same kooky satanic conspiracy prosecutor.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4937069n&tag=contentMain

[TorchTheWitch]

85. frequently changing one's story is a bit more than that

Also pointing the finger of guilt at her boss causing him to be arrested and held for two weeks when it was proved beyond doubt he was not there is a bit more than behavior and demeanor.

Once again people are making decisions on guilt or innocense without knowing a thing about the actual facts and evidence. After looking into the facts and evidence it can be sufficiently determined that Amanda was there and was in on it. I don't happen to believe that it was her that stabbed the victim but she may have or she may have approved of it being done... I happen to believe that it was her "boyfriend" of a week or two who actually killed her and the other man who raped her. I think the satanic sex game theory is stupid, but motive isn't necessary. People feel more comfortable when they can assertain why the thing happened, but it doesn't matter why... what does matter is that it happened and who done it. Her behavior coupled with the facts and evidence only further points to her guilt.

Her parents claim she was tortured. She claims she was yelled at and slapped in the head a few times and blames this for her "confusion" and why she claims her story kept changing wildly and why she blamed her boss for killing Meredith... her final claim is that she doesn't know where she was or why or whether she was there or not and that any indication that she was there is her dreams. Any honest person would look at her wildly changing stories, her finger pointing first at her boss and then at her "boyfriend" and the fact that her changing stories are changed to fit the growing pile of evidence against her as that of a guilty person trying to talk their way out of it and doing it quite badly.

What is more damning against her claims of being what her parents refer to as tortured is that at no time does she ever behave that way or appear that way. She always appears healthy and well groomed, relaxed, confident and is almost always smiling and even is seen laughing and joking with her guards on numerous occasions. She even appears to ENJOY the attention of her perdicament which fits that personality profile of those that knew her both in the US and in Italy.

[liberal_at_heart]

53. I let the courts decide things like this

I think people are sympethetic towards this case because it was a young woman visiting a foreign country. If a young foreign man were accused of murdering a young woman here in this country and were put on trial here in this country you wouldn't have near as many people questioning the validity of the verdict. I don't know if she is guilty or not, but the courts decided she is guilty.

[superduperfarleft]

54. I'm sympathetic because they tortured a confession out of her. n/t

[Shell Beau]

56. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about the trial, but I was rooting

on her being innocent or found innocent based on what I do know. If she did it, then I am glad, but there is this cloud of doubt for me. I was honestly thinking she'd be found innocent.

[slampoet]

65. In the United States she would have gone free. We never lock up the rich.

[LisaL]

68. Hah? What makes you think she is rich?

[slampoet]

73. Do you go to the same school as Prince Leka of Albania?

Amanda Knox Did.

What percentage of young people in your area can afford to study in Italy for the summer?


I suggest you read the facts from a European publication.

[taterguy]

75. Jeffrey McDonald begs to differ

[jakefrep]

72. Who the fuck is Amanda Knox?

[Greyhound]

74. Apparently a blond, blue eyed, SoCal babe from a well-to-do family that

killed somebody or not.
:shrug:

[malaise]

76. Good coverage here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

[Frank Cannon]

78. I never even heard of this woman until last night

Has this been in the news for a while? I guess I've been too busy keeping up with Balloon Boy and Jon and Kate Gosselin.