DU As A Whole Hasn't Become More Centrist. You've Just Become Less Tolerant.

[KittyWampus]

Been here since close to the beginning of DU. And DU is the same as it always was.

The reason you think it's become more Centrist isn't because there are more people here posting here with 'centrist' views.

No, what has happened is, you just can't stand dissenting views anymore.

When you first came to DU, it was easy to find people with whom you agreed and easy to shut out those posts you did not agree with.

Human nature dictates that we seek information that jives with ones world view and ignore or deride what does not.

Now that you've been here a while, it just becomes harder to ignore those with whom you disagree.

You automatically are drawn to the same posters you've agreed with in the past and seek out posts that express your point of view.

But now that you've been here for a while, you have come to prefer a TOTAL confirmation experience. That is what you've come to expect and want from DU.

Now, if a scant half dozen posters dare voice an opinion that you disagree with you feel there is a mass movement on this site.

Hell, if ONE poster says something you don't like DU suddenly becomes "War Lovers Central" or the "Kucinich Haters Club".

It's a product of familiarity, I think.

If you REALLY think DU has become more Centrist or whatever, you probably need to take a short break from DU. When you get back, you'll realize that nothing has changed.

[aquart]

1. "You"?

[denbot]

2. God, I remember teeing off on the Greens right after the selection

I was way more angry back then, and DU is tamer now. DU like wine, mellows with age.

[GodlessBiker]

3. I think it has to do with being the united opposition vs. the divided people in power.

When Bush was president, we found points in common to help us stick together.

Now that we have a chance being the majority party, we squabble.

[Tim01]

31. Exactly. nt

[arcadian]

4. I disagree.

I think in Bush's waning years, center-right people disgusted with Bush found DU and jumped on the bandwagon. Then they merely expanded their typical Super Bowl victors mentality and jumped on the Obama band wagon when he won. There are a lot of moderates who simply sway with who ever happens to win in a political election simply because they want to be identified with the victors and because the worst thing in America is to be labeled a loser.

[QC]

5. Exactly. n/t

[frylock]

9. concur

[Starry Messenger]

16. This. n/t

[leftstreet]

17. Yep

And you can expand your analysis to the Dem party leadership

[HamdenRice]

22. Laughable! Most of the people you think came here in late Bush years have been here longer than you

2008? Most of the people you seem to think flocked here in the waning days of the Bush administration have been here 3 or 4 times longer than you.

BTW, newbie, welcome to DU.

[Starry Messenger]

30. whoops

self delete

[TicketyBoo]

32. Deleting

response to poster who self-deleted.

[hfojvt]

64. seems to me that DU was less tolerant in the past too

When it was smaller, there used to be purity police swarming on any heresy on DU, especially by a newbie. But the other thing is the expansion of the group, with an active group of 1,000 you might have one or two dissenting opinions. When the active group expands to 10,000 then a person can easily see nine or ten dissenting opinions and such numbers seem intolerable, almost as though the dissenters outnumber the true believers.

[enigmatic]

28. Spot-on

:thumbsup:

[notesdev]

6. This doesn't conform to my preconceptions

Therefore I unrec you and make an unflattering comparison to some unpopular but well-known personage.

;)

[EFerrari]

7. And but for the incivility, that might not be a bad thing.

It's cool that more people are fielding arguments and walking through defending their positions. The casual vitriol, let alone raging OPs, not so cool.

[TicketyBoo]

36. You know?

I came here this past summer because I couldn't stand what is happening in my own town. I am in one of the reddest of the red states (Nebraska), and I was sick of the President being slammed (and sometimes threatened) everywhere I go. Fox News plays on the big-screen TVs at the local Applebee's (and we don't go there as often as we used to before that started happening). I was hunting for a bit of solace online, since this town is so down on this administration.

It is most disheartening to see that sort of thing happening here, too, (minus the threats; haven't seen that here, at least not yet).

No matter how disappointed you are (and I am, too), he was the best we could do. I still think he's a good man (even though I don't agree with everything he's done — or hasn't done), and I hope things get better, and I am optimistic enough to think that they will.

I know I'm politically to the right of some of you, but left of a lot of you, too. I feel a bit like the fulcrum of a teeter-totter, and sometimes it gets uncomfortable because I catch it from both sides.

Does anyone have any recommendations for me as far as something that wouldn't be quite so contentious, or are all political sites pretty much this way?

I was looking for a port in a storm, and sometimes it feels like I landed in the middle of a hurricane instead.

[EFerrari]

39. The smaller forums are less rough and tumble (or most of them are).

You're a contributor and have access to DU groups as well.

DU can be a virtual riot but there is nothing out there that beats DU for being on top of developing news.

[Odin2005]

8. K&R. DU seems to have lost it's old moderate posters like Wyldwolf.

Where did Wyldwolf go, I miss him. :cry: I disagreed with him a lot but he was a wonderful poster.

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. I suspect he might have moved on when his boss Mr. From did.

;)

[Greyhound]

38. I suspected he worked for one of them. I know professional corporate-speak when I ignore it. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

44. i definitely miss his shameless whoring for Lieberman over Lamont in '06

[jobycom]

10. That's funny. I think it's more extremist, less centrist.

I don't think of centrist as a bad word. It's just a label. I don't think I'm centrist, but I don't examine my post to stamp out centrist views, either.

What I see are a lower percentage of people who don't care about labels. We used to get into arguments over NAFTA, for instance, and liberals could hold either view. Now there's a shocking percentage who see it as some litmus test, who shut out all arguments (most facts, too) to hold one view or another without room for argument.

It's like we've become the same bumper sticker spouters as the Republicans around here. Discussions are short and final. "I'm right because I'm a progressive/liberal/leftist/something and you are wrong because you are a centrist/DLC/DINO/whatever."

The label has become the argument. Debate is dead.

And don't tell me that's the same as it used to be. Yeah, there was always a group like that, but they are the ones who domintate this place now. I've always ignored that group. Before 2008 that meant I just ignored a few posters. Now it means I ignore whole forums. There is still good discussion around here, but it's harder to find, and more likely to be hijacked by people with one message and a bullhorn and no real argument.

Just something to deal with. Still mostly a good place.

[laughingliberal]

65. Respectfully, that door swings both ways. Some with more moderate views have taken to calling more

progressive posters 'the teabag left,' of late. I find the level of discourse has deteriorated here. I was gone for 2 years and have been shocked at how hostile it seems to have become.

[NYC_SKP]

11. For years we had a common enemy in the whitehouse, it kept us more united.

Now that Bush is gone, we're fighting over our own Democratic Administration.

It's quite unpleasant.

[inna]

12. true, but...

the administration's actions are quite unpleasant.

cause and effect?

[NYC_SKP]

14. I think the "common enemy" dynamic would apply even if Obama was more progressive.

But that brings up another discussion:

DU isn't politically monolithic, not all are progressives and "progressive" means different things to different people.

So, often, we're fighting over identity and over the details (including some pretty BIG details) of how this administration is acting.

And, we're coming to grips with vastly different expectations each of us had.

[galileoreloaded]

13. The balkanization of America....

perhaps you are correct.

[robinlynne]

15. simply not true. unfortunately.

[Robb]

18. Yup. On all counts. nt

[MadHound]

19. Excuse me, but who are you to try and tell me what I'm thinking?

First of all, I never get involved in these sort of debates, their pointless. Second, I find your presumption to be rude and thoughtless. Third, you are, in your own passive aggressive way, trying to stifle debate and dissent with this post.

There was no need, no call for this sort of post. You should be ashamed.

[rucky]

20. It's not the content as much as the tone.

[OneGrassRoot]

21. Agree with you and OP. :) K&R n/t

[AllentownJake]

23. The drift to GOP lite is celebrated as diversity

:rofl:

[rd_kent]

24. I agree 100%

It seems like if one has a dissenting point of view, they are more often than not called freepers, GOP lite, etc. What ever happened to being able to post your point of view without being attacked?

[HamdenRice]

25. I agree nt.

[blindpig]

26. Bullshit

Since the coming of Obama many leftists have been hounded incessantly by a bunch of centrists/war-mongering/capitalists loving/administration apologists. That goes double for gay leftists.

As goes the Party so goes DU.

[Moochy]

58. Yep

The tent is bigger and full of ex-republicans who had no problem with either war.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. Big-assed K&R

[shadesofgray]

29. I'm happy to be intolerant of warmongers, pro-lifers, and politicans who want to piss away

my civil rights, no matter what party they are. Funny how until we got a democratic president who lets the republicans call the shots on so many things, you rarely saw any posters here defending those things. That certainly has changed. But seeing it actually being defended is something I never thought I'd see.

And to see posters actually be called intolerant for calling the "Centrists" out on their bullshit - surreal.

[Robb]

34. You know we can all see you joined like two weeks ago, right?

This doesn't make your opinions any less valid -- except your opinions on what around DU has changed.

I swear. Tell us all about how DU used to be. :D

[shadesofgray]

40. Apparently you don't understand that one can read DU without being a member.

[Robb]

41. Heh. OK.

Whatever you say. :rofl:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

54. apparently YOU don't understand most of us realize that DU has NOT been recently overrun by prolife

posters.

And your assertion is just ridiculous.

That you perceive DU that way demonstrates just what I mean by intolerance.

[shadesofgray]

60. Telling somebody how they should perceive something is pretty damn intolerant in my book.

[Sebastian Doyle]

35. +100,000

Being called intolerant for actually being a Democrat on Democratic Underground? Sickening isn't it. :puke:

[shadesofgray]

42. Yeah - and nothing like being told I don't have the right to protest.

because of some arbitrary bullshit reason!

[HamdenRice]

37. Roflmao! Welcome to DU

November 25, 2009! Thanks for telling us all about DU.

[EFerrari]

45. Welcome to DU.

[shadesofgray]

59. Thanks!

[Individualist]

43. Translation: Everyone must pretend there's not an elephant (DLC) in the room.

Fat chance of that happening!

[HughMoran]

46. I agree

Excellent and timely post - K&R

[tammywammy]

48. k&r

[Blue_Tires]

49. silly me, i thought it was a matter of me being consistent

and there is a HUGE gap between issues where there is plenty of legit room for discussion/disagreement, (i.e. immigration or the economy) and issues where there is ONE undisputed universal correct side (i.e. evolution or GLBT rights)...and playing the whole "You're just intolerant of dissenting views"-card is a ruse used by those on the wrong side of those latter issues

[C_Lawyer09]

50. "A total confirmation experience"

What an insightful and apt statement. I'm a new guy, and have been a little taken back at the vitriol of some arguments. Always seems like a good thing to expand the lexicon of discussion. Another observation is, many don't really care for explanation, rationale, or supporting theory, they really do just want to perpetuate what they already believe, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. Prime example, explanation of the hows and whys within our military operations or force structure often begets a "you pro-war sonofagun" response. Of course, the strength of the democratic party has always been its breadth, and ability to be the inclusive party of the many, versus the exclusive party of the few. Appreciate your post!

[bridgit]

52. I really like that one too, gives me hope I can *demand* 3 olives in my Bloody Mary

[boppers]

57. Only organic olives, of course.

Unless you hate the earth.

:evilgrin:

[bridgit]

51. Agreed

[yurbud]

53. it is not the disagreement but that the corporatists usually insult rather than offer arguments

or evidence and too often tell those of us who question or disagree with what Obama does to shut up.

There's a tide of PR shills for corporate America and their tools in DC that seems to ebb and flow here. Right now, we are at a high tide. Once the PR firms realize they aren't moving public opinion with their vapid talking points that they mistakenly think work on network TV, or more likely, once some big policy debate (like health care or the Afghan surge) ends, the tide will go out again.

[Capn Sunshine]

55. you're wrong because you are teh suck

I'm not concerned about DU, it's always been chock full of fuckwads. Like the internets. Me, I ignore them, since they are at its most base little letters on my screen that do not exist unless I look at them.

You all disappear when I go outside.

[Nikki Stone1]

56. Actually, I've never been tolerant of those who would throw away women's rights and continue wars

that are at their root morally wrong.

And I'm staying right here.

[DIKB]

61. We are far more alike than we are different

if you doubt that, go to the nearest Mega-church and talk to people about their stance on issues. You'll come back to DU appreciating everyone a LOT more.

[andym]

62. DU has always had a broad spectrum of political views-- often strongly expressed

Just search back in the archives for the 2004 and 2008 primary postings to see the level of rancor and disagreement and the range of political views.

Of course, the biggest problem now is that the common "enemy" (GWB, Cheney and team) has been defeated and are out of power, so there is less to unite everyone.

[autorank]

63. .

Who are the centerists anyway? Harry Reid fans?

[Bluebear]

66. Today you said "Boo hoo awwwww some DU'ers pet politician insulted"--and you're lecturing tolerance?

:crazy:

[omega minimo]

67. Centrism = Republican Lite