I quit the democratic party if there is no viable public option

[RainDog]

that's the deal breaker for me.

I've voted in every election since I was old enough to do so. This is it, democrats.

Yeah, I know it's worse when republicans are in office. but it's SO BAD NOW with democrats that DO NOT REPRESENT THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENCY that I cannot continue as the "abused spouse" in this relationship. Democrats either deliver or I'm done with politics.

just voicing my opinion. I realize there are many others and good luck to you who are willing to stick with this bullshit.

[frebrd]

1. I'm with you!

[closeupready]

2. Totally understand.

n/t

[groundloop]

3. Maybe we'd have all been better off with McCain and Palin ???

There's a small group of senators holding things up, they're the ones this anger needs to be directed at. Simply throwing in the towel and refusing to vote in the next election is giving the rethugs exactly what they want.

[MNDemNY]

5. Fuck that, we have comprimised enough.

It's time that the so-called "centerists" cave.

[PHIMG]

7. There's more than one way to President Palin.

Let's just drink the cool-aid that Rahm is feeding us, let the administration and the conservadems continue to move to party to the right, undermine our values, alienate our activist base, and demotivate the rank and file so much that they see no reason to vote.

That's the course we're on. It's a creepy echo of the Clinton era except this time it's occurring much faster - disillusionment on internet time.

WE NEED TO SAY NO TO RAHM'S COMPASSIONATE CORPORATISM AGENDA and YES WE CAN to a REAL DEMOCRATIC AGENDA of CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

Lets beging by starting over with Medicare For All, or if the "Insurance Company Profit Preservation Act" passes - a "Medicare For All" DO OVER.

[leftstreet]

11. That's an interesting point

It's a creepy echo of the Clinton era except this time it's occurring much faster - on internet time.

'internet time' That's the difference.

Duh. I hadn't thought of that

[snagglepuss]

19. Good post. Deserves its own thread. nt

[readmoreoften]

116. Very good post

[Thickasabrick]

122. I think if we raise enough hell, President Obama's numbers go in

the toilet, etc., that before the next election seeing how disgusted we all are and thinking we all may just sit home, he will dump Rahm. I'm hoping he dumps Gates too and promises again to end these wars.

[dysfunctional press]

14. in the long run, we probably would have been...

sometimes, things have to get worse before they can get better.

[leftstreet]

35. We'd certainly have a 'robust' Antiwar Movement by now

ya think?

[LeFleur1]

25. McCain and Palin

It seems to me that these Democrats are doing much that McCain and Palin would have done...so, what's the difference? That 'voting for the lesser of two evils' thing isn't good enough any more. This was the chance for the Dems to stand up and prove that they work for the people. They aren't doing it, or enough of them aren't doing it to make it all work. THEY are obstructing as much as the Republicans are.
The title, Democrat, has helped those obstructionists slide from a lot of the criticism, but if you really look at what they've done, they don't deserve the slide.
There seems to be two mindsets in DC. 1. I work toward the dream of America for all, no matter what.
AND 2. I came here to get rich by taking corporate money and taking down anything not in the best interests of the CEOs. Our Senate, House members fit in one of those categories and it is getting more and more clear where each member belongs within the two mindsets.
Our government of the people, by the people and for the people isn't working because it isn't of the people, by the people or for the people.

It's time for a new party made up of those who believe and act as Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Al Franken, etc.

[fascisthunter]

51. and the democrats want us to believe that if we keep voting for them

they'll enact real "change". Haven't seen much of that... and they are in the majority!

[sabrina 1]

54. Maybe we would, because at least when the opposition party is

in power, the Democratic base is united. Now, it's split, and with a divided base, power is lost. So, the more I think about it, considering that on all the major issues so far, having a Democratic majority hasn't done much good. A lot of people who used to oppose war and who were adamant about real healthcare reform, have now decided that war and a bailout of the private insurance company is not so bad when a Democrat is in the WH.

The people still have the power to influence politicians, but only if they are united. We gave the Dems a chance, so that strategy has been tried. Lieberman still has more power in the party than the millions of people who put them in power.

So yes, I'm beginning to think that a McCain/Palin ticket would have energized and united the base of the Democratic Party like nothing else I can think of.

Seeing the apologetics for what under McCain would have caused outrage, makes me think that we would have had a better chance of winning than we do now.

So, if I were you, I wouldn't be using that old threat, it worked until we found out what a Dem majority would do. Those days are gone and a lot of people are wondering, 'what's the difference'. It's a whole different ballgame. People now see that there are no 'two parties'. Maybe it's way past time for a third, or at least time for the base that has been basically told to get lost, to start looking for Independent candidates to support, like Bernie Sanders.

[ima_sinnic]

58. it's not my responsibility to "save" the country from McCain/Palin

or to prop up fake "democrats" simply to win some "score" that is meaningless.
I'm with the OP and will vote 3rd party or sit it out, b/c I'm tired of my vote being taken for granted. Whether the repuke has a D or an R after its name, they're all the same.

[emilyg]

62. I'm with you.

[Xicano]

87. No, but, we'd be better off if we had a Democrat instead of another wall-streeter

At this point isn't it obvious yet its not about Democrat vs Republican? Rather, its about wall street having both parties bought off with their massive bribes? Given that fact why do we always fool ourselves into voting for Texaco, Haliburton, DuPont, Merck, Pfizer, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, Raytheon, General Electric, or Walmart, etc, etc. and then turn around and kid ourselves into supporting those who act against us (the working folks) just because they have the correct party logo next to their names?

No, the OP isn't contemplating quitting the Democratic party. The OP is merely recognizing that the Democratic leadership has by in large quit the rank and file, and thus, recognizes the correct course of action to take to get representation for us the working folks. In my opinion if we are to see real change we're all going to sooner or later have to take the same first steps. The status quo just isn't no longer a viable option for working folks.

[niceypoo]

105. Face it

The two party system is broken. The Democrats have been marching further and further towards the right for the last 30 years

[Javaman]

119. I always love that reply when someone threatens to quit. It's like "nice post, hitler". LOL nt

[PHIMG]

4. the time to quit was when they dumped single payer

the idea that public option was more politically viable is bullshit. the same people holding up single payer are holding up public option.

the reason that public option was dumped was not about votes in congress. it was about campaign cash.

i use to be of the mind set that we need people to stay in the party to fight the corporatists. with a better view of history afforded by going back to school i can say, go ahead and leave the party, BUT STAY INVOLVED. Join up with the Green Party or a single issue group that pressures the Democratic party.

the tea baggers are crazy but they are upset that thier party is not representing thier views.

we need that on this side of the aisle, so you have my blessing! just don't be crazy like the teabaggers.

:)

[jtrockville]

10. Yeah, it's been tough sticking with Dems after that betrayal.

They made it plain who their constituents are, and it isn't the people who cast votes in their district/state.

[bvar22]

26. The time to quit was in 1993...

..when a Democratic President told us that NAFTA would be good for the American Working Class.

I can't believe I've stuck around this long.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[dflprincess]

48. I think the insurance sell out is the last straw for a lot of us

Yes, we should have seen it earlier, but after the debacle in 1994, we all tried to believe that once we had Congress and the White House, everything would be different. It took not just getting both branches back, but also the large majorities we were told were needed to make it clear that there would be no meaningful change no matter who is running things.

[bvar22]

50. One Less Set of Footsteps at Democratic Campaign HQ.

"And we've been hidin' from somethin'
That should have never gone this far
But after all it's what we've done
That makes us what we are


But tomorrow's a dream away
Today has turned to dust
Your silver tongue has turned to clay
And your golden rule to rust
If that's the way that you want it
That's the way I want it more
There'll be one less set of footsteps
On your floor (at Democratic Party Campaign HQ) in the mornin'"

---apologies to Jim Croce

[reggie the dog]

69. that is exactly why I was not a Democrat when I started voting

in 1998. NAFTA, so I voted Libertarian because at least they would legalize marijuana. I was only 18. I sat out 2000 out of apathy and then was so horrified by W that I voted Democrat twice for president. I can proudly say I did not vote for governor Rod in Illinois because I was part of the ten percent who voted Green. I will vote for Democrats for senator if they are liberals, but if there is a centrist dem against a green I will vote green.

[Selatius]

99. I'm surprised nobody has yet railed you for holding an "old" grudge about that.

A lot of people conveniently forget that liberals stayed home in 1994 during the mid-term elections precisely because of the spectacular failure over NAFTA and an aborted health care reform initiative. The Democrats only lost because they alienated a good chunk of their base.

[KittyWampus]

6. I'm sure declaring your ultimatum on DU will do so much to further the cause of Health Care For All.

:sarcasm:

MAYBE IF YOU STAMP YOUR FEET AND HOLD YOUR BREATH TOO.

[RainDog]

16. and your response is one reason the democrats lose people

you have the nerve to post that my genuine distress with the direction the democratic party is taking is the equivalent to a child who throws a tantrum?

fuck that attitude.

that keeps you from having to look at the incredible betrayals on the part of this administration, starting with Obama's refusal to uphold the constitution, as he said he would, when I was in attendance. Yes, that's a campaign promise but, silly me, I thought UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION after a totally lawless administration was not something "juvenile" to expect in a nation that regards itself as a nation of laws.

funny how people think that being a bitch is okay if it defends your lack of care for the welfare of the people of this nation.

no sarcasm there.

I mean it.

[readmoreoften]

117. The centrists are going to end up owning a small Dem party and Republicans will be their rescue.

The moderate Republicans are these people's true allies, not us. If they want to stop Palin, they should ask for their support, not ours. We seem to share no common interests with these people.

[donco6]

109. Typically condescending claptrap.

Lovely.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. I did that with the Kerry fiasco in 2004.

I was on the inside and I saw what they pulled on Dean. It was at that time I really REALLY understood who these guys were working for and it sure as hell wasn't us. I'll vote for individual Democrats IF they are progressive, otherwise, I write in or vote 3rd party.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. And I saw what happened to the Kucinich campaign

with one of the few candidates who spoke the truth being alternately ignored and ridiculed in all the mainstream media, with the final blow being that he was scheduled to speak at the Democratic National Convention (2004) in the slot just BEFORE TV coverage went national.

That's why I didn't contribute to the Obama campaign at all except to vote reluctantly. I saw beginning in 2007 that he and H. Clinton were the candidates with the MSM Seal of Approval, that all other candidates would have to be found in a horrific scandal to get any media coverage, and that the whole Obama vs. Clinton brouhaha that tore DU apart was a media-generated fake fight, one that allowed them to concentrate on their horse race coverage without substantive examinations of where the candidates stood on the issues.

[TexasProgresive]

9. Buh-bye

Don't let the door hit you.

Maybe you'll find someone to elect that will represent your will, but I seriously doubt that even if you do that person could get elected and if elected be effective.

What are your ideas that would, could be done in the present political atmosphere?

[Matariki]

29. Couldn't you come up with anything more cliche?

[Jester Messiah]

41. Is (s)he wrong? [nt]

[RainDog]

65. Dean was viable until the DLC and media went after him

he's still viable.

texas progressive - rather than telling me what to do, why don't you clean out those stables that pass for governance in Texas? I've spent quite a bit of time there and, hey, enjoy your petro-chemical air in your macmansions as you drive your suvs to feeder roads to take interstates to work in a high rise coffin spewing more crap into the air. then spend your sundays telling one another what good christians you are to hate the rest of the world. what a great life.

and while you're at it, why don't you get some people who are not stupid jackasses to serve on school boards there, and on textbook committees where TX and CA work to dumb down science for the rest of the nation?

if you're really so concerned about workable issues and not insults, I recommend you start in that asshole of America known as Texas.

[reggie the dog]

70. the present political atmosphere is corrupt

many senators and reps work for lobbyists and corporations, not us, I will research and if my rep or senator is liberal I will vote for them, if not, green etc.

[FreeJG]

12. Totally agree with everyone here! IM FINISHED TOO!

And,,,i'm a diehard democrat! But, they must be held accountable too. When Bush ordered spying on American's.....we were outraged. Obama extends the provision and WIDENS it...and no dems say a word? They screamed when Bush did it. It's not about Obama being your guy....you still must hold him accountable! What's wrong with people? They stay silent,,,and call me rude. Ha ha what a joke. Dem activists are losers...allowing loser policies by "Obusha".

[FreeJG]

13. And...the media brought us Obama..hyping him up and creating an illusion.

the media is doing it in all of our races all the way to the local mayoral races! They create propaganda to fit the rigged numbers on our new electronic voting machines! Believe it! It's true.

[cry baby]

15. K, bye...one issue voters are loco! nt

[RainDog]

20. you are part of the problem.

I said health care was the deal breaker. I didn't say it was my only issue.

but you frame it however it makes you feel better when the democrats tell you to bend over and take it up the ass because of those mean old republicans... who do as they please when they are the party in power.

people who have no sense of decency are loco.

[cry baby]

44. If I understand what you said, you will leave the dems and all the other issues you care about

if there is not a public option in HCR and you'll stay if there is?

No other issues that dems fight for measure up to the public option...is that what you're saying?

Just askin...

[OnyxCollie]

21. How many issues do you need?

healthcare
Iraq
Afghanistan
Guantanamo
Bagram
torture
domestic surveillance
politicized Justice Dept.

Those are right off the top of my head.

[cry baby]

43. follow the link to the Democratic Party Platform as an answer to your query.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

[OnyxCollie]

56. Lots of promises there.

I do not, however, equate promises with results.

[dflprincess]

59. Including fighting any efforts to infringe on access to safe abortions

unless, of course, you need to compromise on women's health to get an insurance bill passed.

Do you suppose any elected officials every read the platform? For years I've been pretty sure that they don't.

[cry baby]

63. It's simply a list of goals that dems strive for. There are many important

issues to fight for - at least for me. You may have a different take on what things are important to you...your list in your previous post is a good one.

[Ignis]

92. Words mean shit. Action counts. (nt)

[Hatchling]

93. That Platform is a wonderful Menu

But they never serve it come dinner time.

[donco6]

110. No kidding. I'm tired of cold corn dogs.

At least with the restaurant down the street I can be reasonably sure to get my pot pie. And yeah, it's pot pie, but the last place promised steak and I got the cold corn dog - for the same price, I might add. So which is better?

[reggie the dog]

72. one issue???

ending "free trade"
single payer health care
repeal patriot acts I and II
disband homeland security
legalize cannabis and all other illegal drugs
end the war in Iraq
end the war in Afghanistan
get US troops out of Colombia (which would happen if drugs were legalized)

i got a whole laundry list of reasons why I am disappointed by the democrats....

[WI_DEM]

17. Join the Greens they will get it passed.

[reggie the dog]

73. they got 10 percent for governor in Illinois

They would have a voice if only we had proportional representation in one of our branches of legislature.

[Swede]

18. You do know that Reid is trying to get the votes in congress.

Not enough votes,no public option.

[Gold Metal Flake]

23. "Not enough votes,no public option" means a Democratic Party infested with corporatists.

But the revolution must occur in the primaries. Still, with the fracturing of the Republicans this might be the dawning of a time when a new liberal party could have a chance, if there is momentum. Momentum is felt first in the streets. Not happening yet.

Oh, and election reform with IRV. That would help.

[Swede]

27. They need the 2 independants on board to get the 60 votes.

Majority Party: Democrat (58 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (40 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat

Total Seats: 100

[Gold Metal Flake]

32. Wow. Like no one knows this?

:wtf:

[Swede]

34. "Democratic Party infested with corporatists"?.

They have the 58 votes,which Democatic Party corporatists are you talking about?

[Gold Metal Flake]

83. Sure about that?

[niceypoo]

107. List the dems that arent corporatist

Very short list

[Le Taz Hot]

108. We're new.

Nor have we heard this SAME argument from the apologists some 2,536,936 times. And that's just in the last week. :eyes:

[dflprincess]

49. Despite what the public wants

"Two-thirds of the public wants Medicare for All" at thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7172977

It's a pity our opinions don't count with the corporate sell outs in D.C.

[kctim]

22. I have an honest question

You say: "but it's SO BAD NOW with democrats that DO NOT REPRESENT THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENCY that I cannot continue as the "abused spouse" in this relationship"

How do you know they are not representing the 'will of their constituency?' So far, on this issue, they are representing me and many others I know, just as we have written and asked.

[RainDog]

24. when the majority of Americans want something, I consider that unrepresentative

when the majority of Americans want our govt to stop letting medical issues bankrupt families and destroy lives but the democrats side with the pharmaceutical and insurance companies then I see that as a problem.

when I look at our nation and see how poorly we fare compared to EVERY OTHER WESTERN DEMOCRACY in terms of healthcare, quality of life for our citizens, educational goals, THE ABILITY TO MOVE UP IN THE WORLD - because, in case you didn't know, there is MORE social mobility in western Europe than here.. and this is because of their commitment to health care, education and quality of life issues for ALL not just the rich.

if you support the current situation, you support an America that is less free, less open to innovation, less caring about the welfare of its citizens than other democracies.

so, a question. why do you support those things?

[kctim]

31. You said

"REPRESENT THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENCY." Is their 'constituency' made up of the voters or the Party? I believe it is the former.

I did not say that I support the current situation, you are the one who said that because I do not agree with your solution.

Like it or not, our Constitution prevents us from becoming like 'every other western democracy,' so, until it is legally changed, we must walk that fine line. As with 90+ percent of Americans, I too want reform, and, just as half of those do, I do not believe handing it all over to the govt is the reform I want. I have experienced it and I want NOTHING to do with it.

[reggie the dog]

75. where does our constitution say we cannot have

public single payer health insurance?

[thesquanderer]

90. The 10th amendment

re: "where does our constitution say we cannot have public single payer health insurance?"

Well, in a way, the constitution does say we can't have a federal single payer system, though we can certainly have state-based single payer systems.

The tenth amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Since the constitution does not specifically delegate the power to create a heathcare system to the US (i.e. the federal government), the power to do so lies with the states. Of course, that same argument makes Social Security unconstitutional.

The strangest twist, though, is that states cannot create their own single payer health systems. I don't know why... I only know that Kucinich tried to pass an amendment that would allow them to do it, and it was voted down.

Nope, none of it makes sense to me!

[shawn703]

106. Necessary and Proper Clause and Commerce Clause

"The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

" To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;"


The tenthers have been making the same argument over and over again throughout history, and Supreme Court case after Supreme Court case has upheld the laws the federal government passed.

[reggie the dog]

115. How is there a federal interstate highway program?

was that in the constitution? I am just saying.... was the FCC in the constitution? the DEA???

[thesquanderer]

120. interstate commerce

the federal highway system is at least tangentially related to regulating interstate commerce. Things like social security and healthcare would seem to be more of a stretch.

[Autumn]

28. Agree, the last several years have made me

very disillusioned with the party. This is my line in the sand.

[BzaDem]

30. I DARE you to do so. If you succeed, you'll simply crawl back in 4 years after a Palin admin.

People who whine or cry because of circumstances outside Democrats' control should not be coddled or pampered. They should be left to see the consequences of their actions up close and personal. Only that is enough to focus their mind.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. I bet the Whigs talked like that in the 1850s

"Ha, those anti-slavery people will come crawling back to us after they've had four years of a Southern Democratic administration."

[BzaDem]

40. The Whig example is more of an example of what would happen to a "viable third party" today

If you place your hope on a repetition of the 1850s, best of luck to you. :rofl:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. Spoken like a true Whig

:rofl: yourself

[reggie the dog]

78. crawl back, yeah right you arrogant little person

why not do like I did and just leave the shitty USA. It is really a shit country. I was born in the USA and lived there for 24 years but I will likely never live there again. You have too much violence, linked to the devaluation of human life in a system in which the poor are made to feel guilty for their situation and it which health care is not a basic right. Fuck the USA. I have been done for the past 6 years. I vote in the hopes of saving my birth country but I have a far higher quality of life here in France than I could ever dream of having in the USA. College tuition for the kids at between 4 euros and 280 euros a year by income level, single payer national health insurance, public hospitals, lower rate of violence, de facto decriminalized hash, amsterdam 12 hours away in the car......a social welfare system in which the poor are not made to feel guilty for being shit on by the system....the usa is a shithole of greed and has a very shitty "I got mine, fuck you attitude". Crawl back my ass. More and more people will just leave and move to Europe. My ancestors came to the USA to live a better life, I went back to Europe to live a better life....

[RainDog]

85. if I could emigrate, I would

because I've lived in Europe and Americans have no idea how much shit they eat from the religious right and the corporate fat asses here.

I've looked for jobs in other nations and probably will continue to do so. since my children are here, tho, it would not be an easy choice to make. During the Bush years I was entirely ready to do so, or send my children to their grandmother so they would not be eaten up by the American war machine.

When Obama took office, I did have hope for a change of course. That hope began to die when Obama immediately sucked up to that hateful man from the Saddleback Church, continued when he put an anti-abortion person in health, continued when he refused to address the issue of war crimes, continued when he extended FISA, and continues now with health care.

And continues now as the banks who were bailed out pay out bonuses while so many American children are living on food stamps, while so many Americans are losing their homes to rapacious financial institutions, still, while Americans die from lack of national health care policy, while Americans are imprisoned for smoking a joint to help with their multiple sclerosis while Cheney ponders a second chance at the White House without one worry he'll ever be held accountable for his many (admitted) crimes.

The good thing about Palin would be that the rest of the world would finally recognize that America has gone batshit insane and would probably move to deal with this nation like other banana republics - our economy is already there.

[Kablooie]

37. Bye bye. It's in the news. The Public option is dead. Long live the Republicans!

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/democrats-plan-public-option-offered-private-insurers/

[Echo In Light]

45. Mission Accomplished!

[RainDog]

66. yeah, I read that before I posted this. that's WHY I posted this

I was, in essence, saying that I'm done with the democrats and, really, the idea that politics will do anything good at this point in history.

I'll put my time and money into the people who need help. I do that anyway all the time. To me, it's like living under an oppressive govt - not yet East Germany, but that's what we're working on.

so I'll go about my business, try to survive as best I can and best of luck to those who can still buy the bullshit that comes from the one party system here.

[thesquanderer]

91. It was dead before that post.

re: "yeah, I read that before I posted this. that's WHY I posted this"

The public option that is now in jeopardy was, in fact, barely a public option at all. If we lose it, we're really not losing much. It was gutted to almost irrelevance long ago. Practically all that remained was the name.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. I here you.

This may be my last year as a Democrat -- and that makes me very very sad. :(

[bertman]

39. "abused spouse in this relationship". Interesting analogy. I get the feeling it's all a P.R.

game to push as far as they can to the right (corporatist agenda), then dance back a couple of steps when they sense the public is getting pissy. But the overall movement is to the right, not the left. That's what happens when the wealthy control the media, the Congress, the purse strings.

Recommend.

[highboldtage]

42. What We Voted For - And What We Have Gotten

What We Voted For - And What We Have Gotten



http://urlet.com/required.bear


WHAT WE VOTED FOR:

We voted to prosecute war criminals and economic traitors.

We voted to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and bring the troops home.

We voted for access to health care for all.

We voted to end the phony and corrupt war on drugs.

We voted for marraige equality.

We voted to raise the minimum wage for the working poor.

We voted to end corporate welfare and tax gifts to the wealthy.

We voted to repeal the vile and unconstitutional Patriot Act.

We voted to end spying on American citizens.

We voted to end torture, close Guantanamo and end the kidnapping and rendition.


WHAT WE HAVE GOTTEN:

[ima_sinnic]

60. +1 . . . and we would have gotten all that w McCain/Palin anyway

I agree with OP, if the "Democrats" aren't going to do any better than republicans, why vote for them?

[reggie the dog]

79. you forgot

we got shit on

[SlowDownFast]

46. Right with you. Time for progressives to go 3rd party. Rec'd. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

47. I am quitting if we don't get a chicken in every pot

Thats the deal breaker for me.

Don

[reggie the dog]

80. can i get some pot

and some chicken for after i smoke it?

[Rosco T.]

53. So, you'll be a President Palin supporter then?

that's your choice.

[hayu_lol]

55. Liberals are the base of the Democrat Party...

progressives are something else entirely. Greens are out there begging the progressives to join them...you really should.

Then maybe the Libs can get our party straightened out.

In the meantime, all you greens and fellow-travelers can make sure that Jeb Bush is elected the next time around...just as you did in 2000 for George.

[RainDog]

71. you are part of the problem, too

because you think that the right wing has answers to problems when it is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS if you look at data from the U.S. and from other western democracies that demonstrate that the right wing IS THE PROBLEM.

So, in your wisdom, or rather, lack of information and instant bullshit labeling in a cup, you declare that those who declare themselves as democrats but who are not conservatives are the problem?

what fucking planet have you been living on?

go look up quality of life indices for all western democracies. go look up stats on how nations have fared during this economic mess - look at the PEOPLE of the nations, not the bankers. look at our nation's level of innovation in the most pressing energy concerns - at the implementation of alternatives to petrol-derived products...

and you will find that those nations that have NOT followed the neo-liberal and neo-conservative policies are those that have fared the best and have positioned themselves to deal with the future.

It is foolish, or rather, usually called the mark of insanity to think you can fix the problems of this nation by using the same solutions that CREATED THE PROBLEMS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[reggie the dog]

81. fellow travelers???

Do you realize that many "progressives" would just be normal left wing, if not center left in countries like France, Sweden, Norway, Scotland, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Italy, Austria, Luxembourg, Finland, Portugal,.....

[Hatchling]

96. Here we go again!

We're whiners if we don't get the things we ask for. We're told that Obama told us all along he was going to do these things and that all politicians make promises they can't carry through in order to get elected.

We're told that we progressives didn't get Obama elected so why should he do anything we want? And THEN we're told that if we vote for someone who will try to do the things we value that it's our fault Jeb Bush gets elected!!!

I call bullshit. It's YOUR fault if Jeb Bush gets elected because you don't give progressives ANY of the things we are promised.

YOUR FAULT not ours.

If you don't want to see Bush 3 in the White House, do something for us. I'm tired of doing for you and being told to just be patient! Fuck that shit!

[donco6]

112. I know - we're at once *not* resp. for Obama getting elected -

AND for Obama being replaced in the next election. How does that work?

[berni_mccoy]

57. Because 3rd parties are so successful in the U.S.

[mdmc]

61. not me

I'm with this dead ass party until death does us part..

[RainDog]

64. like I said, good luck to those of you who have the wherewithal to deal with it

and thank you for not insulting me.

I really do mean that "good luck" - it's not sarcastic at all.

while others assume that means I support a third party etc. etc. the reality is that this nation seems so screwed up to me that I don't think it can fix itself.

I'm honestly losing any hope that we will deal with the problems we face and the future will be very ugly because, when in the time when it could be done, those things that SHOULD BE DONE to protect our democracy by promoting a strong middle class, a healthy exchange without religious bullshit as the irrational response to ANYTHING that helps to further this nation's well being, a viable response to energy issues, to lawlessness in federal agencies, to the move toward fascism, ultimately, with a populist movement from the right and the corporate intransigence at the highest levels of power -- there were too many democrats who were on board with that program and not the one that advances democracy.

my country makes me weep.

[mdmc]

76. Peace and low stress my friend

Like the Bob Dylan lyric goes "It might be the devil, it might be the Lord, but ya got to serve somebody!"

[mdmc]

77. k/r

for the thoughts and feelings..
peace out..

[RainDog]

88. thank you. big hugs and peace and peace of mind to you n/t

[reggie the dog]

82. the USA is fucked, move to Europe

I did and I have no regrets. Fuck the USA. I am French now. My ancestors said "Fuck Poland, Germany, Itlay, Austria, Prussia, and Lithuania lets leave" I said fuck the USA and left. We all did it to lead better lives, what a difference 110 years makes.

[RainDog]

86. I would if I could. but I'm not twenty five

I have a masters degree in an actual "useful" field, can read in two languages (or could, but haven't much lately), have increased the profits of the place where I'm currently working (the boss gave me explicit credit and I do deserve it), increased usage of the "product" in the place where I was working as a grad student (I went back to school after I got a divorce to upgrade my skills.)

and you know what? places where I am employable are laying off people for lack of funds, closing branches for lack of a tax base to support the MOST BASIC information and literacy access for American citizens. So I am underemployed. A biz person told me to dumb down my resume for other positions I've applied for (but don't even really want, just want the stability). But, in spite of an outstanding academic and work record, I remain stuck here.

it is frustrating beyond words.

I was married to someone from Europe and lived there for a bit when our children were younger so that they could spend time with my ex's family (my ex's job allowed him to move temporarily for work.) I was married one year too late to have automatic EU citizenship. My kids can move there, tho, and I'm grateful for that, if they want to.

You are entirely correct, tho. What passes for "liberal" as in "progressive" in the U.S. would be considered, rightly right wing there because, honestly, there is nothing progressive about neo-liberals. nothing that identifies them as democrats to me, either, based upon my understanding of the term in U.S. politics from FDR, Truman, Kennedy, or Johnson - and even Johnson was too Texas for America's good. Since then, we've had southern good ole boys who can placate the south's neo-confederacy/religious jihad.

I'm sick of it.

But it is this nation that is really sick.

[reggie the dog]

89. you dont have automatic citizenship

but your kids have the right to live there and you could probably find work if you are bilingual. The masters degree opens up the possiblity of getting a residence card (like a green card) in many countries much more easily than you could with just a BA. you are a perfect candidate to hop across the pond. The Netherlands is officially bilingual (Dutch and English) Malta has English as one of its languages too, Scotland has a better social system than England. Lots of work is done in English in Sweden, I have a French friend who works in English there. Idem for Finland and to a certain extent Denmark....

[donco6]

111. I'm getting close to retirement with a pension.

I can speak some German. I don't need to work. What are my chances, do you suppose, to be able to move to someplace in Europe?

[reggie the dog]

114. Each of the 27 countries have their own immigration policies.

You would have to find the place with the easiest immigration laws cross referenced to the best social system. Do not forget that with devolution of powers Scotland has a better social system than England.

[reggie the dog]

67. dont be done with politics

vote green, or socialist

[treestar]

68. How does that help?

Conservadems and Blue Dogs just get more numerous. Unless you are from one of the states that sends them, in which case the answer is to work for primary opponents.

You get nothing out of it but maybe you make some lurking freepers happy.

[RainDog]

74. Voting for them doesn't help. And it adds insult to the injury of their policies.

the blue dogs where I am are so heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry there is no way they'd ever vote for something for the good of the American people. and they don't have viable challengers. ever.

so, like I said, I'm done. I'm not from the state I live in. at this point, I consider myself a citizen of the (liberal) town in which I live. the rest is b.s.

[me b zola]

84. The saddest part is

that the "Dems" who are working on behalf of the health care industry to kill the public option don't give a flying rat's ass about the Democratic party and how their actions are killing the party. Their actions are securing well paid jobs in private industry when they finally are voted out, so they could care less.

I don't know what I'll do if the PO fails. :(

[slipslidingaway]

94. This non-debate about reforming our health care system has been ...

a very sad thing to watch.

They Democrats silenced the not for profit advocates and proposed legislation to allow the for profit companies to make money from the suffering of people.

:cry:

[Atticus]

95. Get a bad cigar and the adult beverage of your choice and indulge in both some place

where you are free to cuss, shout, throw things and kick the furniture. Get stinking, scream/cry yourself hoarse and damage some upholstery. Then, take a deep breath and come back to help us straighten things out. We need you. No one else does.

[Raine]

97. I haven't quit the party ... YET

but at this point they won't be getting another dime out of me or any volunteer help again. If I don't see some change in a new direction I'll probably reregister as an Independent before the next election.

[jgraz]

98. Might as well quit now. There is no public option.

[UrbScotty]

100. Will you be part of the SOLUTION, or the PROBLEM?

It looks like way too many people here want to be the problem - as evidenced by the number of rec's to this thread.

As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

We don't need teabaggers running the land.

So if you don't like what's going on, then get off your behind and DO SOMETHING!!!!!

[RainDog]

104. so many assumptions

what makes you think I'm not doing something?

you have no idea what I have to deal with in my day-to-day life, what I have dealt with, and then you tell me to get off my behind and do something. If you knew what I had lived through in this last horrible decade, you wouldn't say that. but on DU, people say a lot of things without any regard for the actual human behind the words on the screen.

the reality that I see is that the political class is too corrupt and the voters (especially in the south) are too stupid to vote for their self interest because they believe a sky god is going to reward them with streets of gold in an afterlife if only they work now to make people miserable in this one.

this is the anti-thesis of democracy.

[Daphne08]

101. I've already told my husband the same thing!

If this Health Care Bill does little more than facilitate a transfer of wealth from American taxpayers into the hands of the Health Insurance Companies (and it looks as if it may end up doing just that), then I will no longer support the Democratic Party... and I've been a registered Democrat for 39 years!

I'll become an Independent! We'll have to frighten the National Party into action, I suppose!

Too many of our Democratic Representatives and Senators also seem to have been corrupted by lobbyists or other interests.

Perhaps they simply never really represented Democratic principles in the first place. Just because someone has a (D) after his/her name doesn't mean our values are being represented.

Our Democrats should have begun by demanding Single Payer or Medicare for All at the beginning of the law-making process.

[donco6]

113. Sadly, though, -

I think people moving into Independent will just cause the Dems to go FURTHER right.

[Bonn1997]

102. The only thing we can do IMO is put Dems in power and hope they change the Supreme Court. I don't

see any other options to long-term change. In the short-term, we can fight for the primary opponents of blue dog Democrats. I do not see any other *constructive* options.

[t0dd]

103. Bravo. I'm with you. k & r nt

[seeinfweggos]

118. that's how i feel about pre-existing conditions i'll oppose

anyone who votes against a bill that bans deniel due to pre-existing conditions

for me that's MUCH bigger than a po

[Gold Metal Flake]

121. It just never gets better, does it?