Margot Kidder gets it. Do you?

[lwcon]

http://counterpunch.org/kidder12072009.html

(U)ntil we get really, really feisty and turn back to all that anger that Obama managed to tamp down with all his lovely speeches and turn it again into a force to be reckoned with, there is no hope for any kind of future worth having. The Democrats aren’t going to save us – we have to save them.

Please K&R if you'd like DUers to read the linked post.

[Raster]

1. Kick!

:kick:

[theFrankFactor]

27. I Hope Liberals Unite to Overthrow the Unitary Corporate Cabal That is So Obvious Now!

[Enthusiast]

55. I'm united.

:rofl: I have to laugh, otherwise I would cry.

[AuntPatsy]

2. No truer words have been spoken considering the present climate...

[villager]

3. Starkly and truly put -- we have to save the Democrats from themselves, and by extension

Obama from himself...

[mdmc]

4. k to the r

[Romulox]

5. k/r. nt

[frazzled]

6. Oh dear

I really don't want to say anything personal about Margot Kidder, because she is probably in a much better state now, or at least I hope.

But I'm sorry: between "Counterpunch" and "Margot Kidder," I can't bring myself to take this post seriously. I'm not criticizing whatever political stances might be contained in that link. I'm just saying, Counterpunch and Margot Kidder are not who one might turn to for the most rigorous, reality-based discussion of anything (including the menu for your Christmas dinner).

[tiny elvis]

43. no, you really do want to say anything personal

or you would have addressed the subject
and you said it like a weasel

I'm not criticizing whatever political stances might be contained in that link. I'm just saying,

all for the good of the party, though
heroic effort

[tavalon]

57. Did you read the artlcle?

Shut up if you didn't. You're wasting our time.

[tblue37]

65. If freakin' Karl Rove woke up today and said that we have to

push the Dems to work harder for us by getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, passing real health care and banking reform, and not appeasing the RW, the corporatists, and the military industrial complex, I would agree with him. (I'd never trust him, mind you, but I'd agree with him.) The truth is the truth, no matter who says it, and bad policy is bad policy, no matter who initiates or directs it.

[greyghost]

78. Spot on! As the NFL players are fond of saying in almost...

every interview; IT IS WHAT IT IS!

[closeupready]

7. Wow. Regardless of whether you agree, she sure is an intelligent woman, isn't she?

Very impressed with her persuasiveness here.

[Iggo]

8. I haven't gotten it in years (n/t).

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

10. Another good article from the same source:

http://counterpunch.org/roberts12042009.html

Now, I hate to say it, but this guy does get it. :shrug:

[bread_and_roses]

62. indeed he does (n/t)

[mmonk]

75. Pretty much.

[Kermitt Gribble]

84. Thanks for the link, inna. That is a good article. n/t

[laughingliberal]

11. K & R nt

[onenote]

12. since Kidder's piece is being posted multiple times, I'll re-post my response

A campaign to "ax max"? First, he was elected one year ago. He's not up for reelection for five more years. Talk about throwing money and time down a rathole.
Second, some numbers: Montana may have a Democratic governor and two Democratic Senators, but anyone who thinks its Vermont is sadly out of touch with reality. Here's a dose of reality: Obama lost to McCain in Montana by 10,000 votes. Baucus got over 100,000 more votes than McCain did. Tell you something?
Third, Margot suggests that going after Baucus (and others) will "soften them up for the blows of the more polished, and hopefully, progressive politicians who will remove them from office."
Oh, Margot, let's take a look at the folks Montanans have elected in recent years: Conrad Burns, Max Baucus, Jon Tester. You think Montanans have a secret hankering for "more polished" politicians? And "hopefully" more progressive replacements? Fat chance.

I would love to see more progressive Democrats elected. But you have to pick your battles wisely. I supported Lamont over Lieberman because I thought he had a very good chance to win; my mistake was that I didn't foresee Lieberman running and winning as a third party candidate. I'd still do exactly what I did then, but anyone who thinks knocking off a Democratic incumbent means that a more progressive Democrat will take his or her place ought to keep that example in mind. If there weren't enough progressive voters to take out Lieberman and a weak repub opponent in Connecticut, why in heavens name would anyone think the results would be better in a state like Montana or Nebraska?

[dreamnightwind]

33. Good points, but...

there must be some way to attack the corporate "centrist" Dems where they live out of the self-interest of their constituents.

We don't have to replace these Dems with leftists, indeed it wouldn't be appropriate given the people they represent.

The problem isn't that these Dems are too conservative (well, there are other problems with that), but that they are too Corporate. The people of Montana can't be well-served by a corporate sellout who is more concerned with money he receives from health insurance and pharma corporations than he is with making sure Montana citizens get good and affordable healthcare.

So that's where the opening is with these so-called conserva-dems. Don't attack them from the left, attack them from the ground. These reps are phonies who use conservative talking points in the same way many Republicans do: not to advance true conservative principles but to thwart any government programs that serve the people rather than serving corporate interests.

[AlbertCat]

39. Get the $$$$$ out of campaigning....it's the only way.

The folks in Montana can elect whomever they want. But in case you haven't noticed, elections have become personality contests and 1 issue referendums. It might as well be "Dancing With The Stars".


All candidates should get the same amount of $$$ to work with and the same amount of air time (donated by the media). With leveling limits like these, candidates may not spend so much time on crap. They'll have to use it wisely.


I know, I know....a dream.....

[HuckleB]

82. In other words, she's enjoying life from her ivory tower.

BORING!

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Perhaps she is having another manic episode

[lwcon]

14. Who'da thunk it?

A cheap shot that sidesteps and badmouths an intelligent critique.

FTW !!!!!111111!!!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. I was wondering which one of the hand-full of DU resident douche-bags would pipe up with that slam.

[nashville_brook]

23. my thought exactly.

[Raster]

24. Now you know!

[RufusTFirefly]

28. And what a shock that it's a Blue Dog.

[Binka]

29. No Shock That It Is THAT Blue Dog

Totally and completely expected.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. The Blue Douche of course. He never fails to disappoint. nt

[dionysus]

104. you...

:rofl:
that was a good one...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

106. .

:shrug:


:evilgrin:







.

[Buzz Clik]

81. Awesome. You insult a fellow DUer with a misogynist comment. Ironic, no?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

93. LOL. Aren't you a former CU member? What? Do you guys have a union?

Misogynist comment. :rofl: As if you give a shit. Save your phony outrage.

[Buzz Clik]

99. Really? Misogynist comments are perfectly acceptable:

Misogynist comments are perfectly acceptable:
a) if leveled at perceived blue-dogs and
b) if protested only by people you consider to be conservatives/Republicans?

That makes you a hypocritical asshole.

Alert my comment. Please! We'll see if your three DU violations remain unnoticed.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

102. Aren't you a former CU member?

[Buzz Clik]

108. The irony continues.

I received my second lifetime ban from the ConservativeUnderground in June of 2008. I was banned for pointing out that a huge percentage of their members were intolerant, hypocritical pricks.

And now I'm debating yet another anti-Democrat, intolerant, hypocrite right here at DU. Funny how it goes.

[BeHereNow]

32. Not to mention is offensive to all who are affected by bipolar disorder.

What an asshat.

BHN

[TankLV]

67. It's Freddie - common - you expect something ELSE?

King of the cheap shots...

[tblue37]

68. I think the people who attack Kidder 's comments based on her former mental health issues

are doing so for no reason other than to say, "Look at me! I know about something that happened in the past, that maybe not all of you are aware of. I am sooo in the know!"

I also think that in this case they are showing the same sort of intolerance of people who have had mental health issues that is all too common in our society. It's a bigotry that at the very least demonstrates a lack of compassion.

[BeHereNow]

31. I have a bipolar family member- you are a jerk.

A big FAT JERK.

BHN

[anarch]

34. you seem stupid

[Ignis]

36. Stay classy, Freddie!

:hi:

[Skittles]

50. ugly

Ms. Kidder is very intelligent and a lovely gal

[avaistheone1]

52. Pretty tacky comment. Figures it's coming from a Blue Dog.

:thumbsdown:

[tavalon]

58. Wow, that was a waste of good letters

They could have been put to much better use!

[Canuckistanian]

63. That's a curious response

The quote in the OP seems perfectly reasoned and well thought out.

What makes you conclude "manic episode"?

[Cherchez la Femme]

64. Right, cause everything's great & everybody is happy

There's nothing to be upset about, all promises have been kept & fulfilled and HopeTM is as freely flowing through every Dem's veins just as it ever was.

Just read the posts on DU, all the togetherness and support and glee!


Yeah, she's manic alright, a crazy person who cannot recognize reality.


...well, ONE of you perhaps is.



Edit: Spelling error

[mdmc]

66. perhaps she is - so what?

:shrug:
I wonder what you know of bi-polar disorder..

[Le Taz Hot]

74. Cheap shot!

:thumbsdown: So, according to you, manics are crazy and their opinions can't be trusted. That's some pretty ugly prejudices there, bud.

[jgraz]

88. DOUCHEzy!!

[Forkboy]

101. When does your fuckhead episode end?

[dionysus]

105. have a sip of the new, improved, "OMC Lite" Beer

[mmonk]

15. .

:kick:

[bvar22]

16. "The Democrats aren’t going to save us

– we have to save them."

Amen!


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Swamp Rat]

18. k&r

[Hatchling]

19. Damn, she's right on! nt

[snagglepuss]

20. K&R

[AndrewP]

21. Very well written and smart

[Sebastian Doyle]

22. Yay Lois Lane!

I think Superman would have approved. :)

[CatWoman]

25. K&R

:kick:

[Raster]

38. Is this your first turn as a Mod, CatWoman?

[CatWoman]

107. this is my second, Raster

:hi:

[WillyT]

26. Yep... K & R !!!

:kick:

[David Zephyr]

30. Spunky. K&R.

.

[unkachuck]

35. K&R....n/t

[donheld]

37. Yes indeed

[dana_b]

40. k&r!!!

[dana_b]

41. k&r!!!

[MrScorpio]

42. Both Margot Kidder and myself believe that action needs to be taken by all of us!

[mmonk]

100. Good pic.

[gleaner]

45. She's got a point ...

you need motivation but you also need a plan. Anger all by itself isn't going to work. It's a good start though. Oh, lord. There go my Quaker values.

[midnight]

46. Arlen Specter calls himself a Democrat for God’s sake.

The fact that 20 to 25 percent of Americans support policies and politicians that are bat shit crazy is not as much a concern as the fact that 50 to 60 percent of Americans support politicians whose policies are for sale to the highest bidder, and exist independent of any underlying morality or consistent philosophy of government. Arlen Specter calls himself a Democrat for God’s sake. And so does Ben Nelson. And Blanche Lincoln. These are not Democrats; they’re Republicans in Donkey suits.

[12string]

47. Margot Kidder

I always thought Margot was hot.Had no idea she had such a beautiful brain too.Right on,Margot!

[defendandprotect]

48. Believe Margot Kidder is correct ...

The Native American was devastated by the brutality of the "discoverers" ---

a humane compassionate people devastated by savages, essentially --

The African American unfamiliar with this continent and language 350 years later

were on their own pretty much to save themselves . . .

Finally in the late 1960's Segregation, Inc. was overturned!!!

Homosexuals were not saved by anyone but themselves -- their own courage, their own

gumption to fight for human rights.

And, I just want to add that every one of those peoples has improved life and freedom

for the rest of us --

Women are still conducting a non-violent battle against patriarchy and its insanities --

And, we are all fighting the same enemy --

Meanwhile the destruction caused by patriarchy has so damaged our planet and our systems,

it may all be too late?


More specifically re what Margot Kidder is saying, I think more of us will have to suffer

what so many others are suffering before it brings us out into the streets???!!!

Unbelievable as that is!!

[Enthusiast]

56. Patriarchy allows

things like the "good 'ol boys club" to exist. The good 'ol (white) boys club exists in every city and township in America. It allows polluters to continue to pollute and it allows wife beaters to continue to abuse. And the the GOBC allows graft and corruption on the local level that drains off precious resources. I've seen the damage done by the GOBC up close and personal, operating in mining and manufacturing.

[defendandprotect]

86. Agree, but evidently it's somehow not visible to many . . .

"Patriarchy" in itself is r-w propaganda because it suggests to most males that they are

part of the ruling elite -- of course, the reverse is true -- i.e., they are ruled

and controlled by them just as we all are.

And, of course, organized patriarchal religion is the underpinning for patriarchy.

Not that we are taught anything of all of this in our schools!


:)

[Skittles]

49. MS. KIDDER NAILS IT

:thumbsup:

[earcandle]

51. Go Girl! That's Democracy at work!

Good to see Lois Lane is not waiting for Superman anymore!  

[Stand and Fight]

53. Kicked and recommended because the truth hurts. n/t

[Senator]

54. K&+R

[sandyj999]

59. Oh What Does She Know?

She is just some goofy actress. Before I get piled on this is sarcasm. The smilies won't work for me.

[Buzz Clik]

60. "...lovely speeches..." Like that's a bad thing.

Right out of the Hillary campaign play book.

So transparent.

[lwcon]

73. You're right. His most recent lovely speech...

He made the war in Afghanistan, and expanding deeper into Pakistan, safe for progressive to love.

Yaaaaayyyy!!!

[Buzz Clik]

79. That wasn't his most recent speech. He made that one during the campaign.

Or did you forget...

tsk tsk.

[sendero]

61. Quite true..

... and it's going to have to happen sooner or later.

I'm afraid that things are not quite bad enough yet, give it another 2-3 years.

[onlyadream]

69. I read the article and couldn't agree more

This OP kind of coincides with another thread about a revolution coming. It seems that no one (and I mean NO ONE) is happy with what's going on. Change will be coming in 2012, we'll see the GOP back in and, STILL, no one will be happy. Once we all realize that the dems and the GOP aren't doing shit, then change will come.

[derby378]

70. I loves me some Margot today

:loveya:

[rvablue]

71. Counterpunch is now running articles from Lois Lane?

Yikes! :eyes: and sad....

[MissDeeds]

72. K&R

The powers that be better wake up soon. There is a lot of anger and frustration growing out here, and it shouldn't be ignored. We tend to take seriously the notion of a government of, by, and for the people. The people put them in office, and we can take them out of office.

[AnneD]

80. Amen....

I have been writing on every donation request from the Dems I get-that I see no point in contributing to them because they have already been bought and paid for.

I worked my butt off to get overtime money to support the Dem candidates. I block walked, and phone banked. And what do I get....watered down health care that is written by the health care industry, Credit Card laws that do not so much as give me a fig leaf to hide behind while they take everything that isn't nailed down, a bank bail out bill that sends money to investment companies that are banks in name only with no strings attached while small banks go under, and what is this war expansion-the Dem version of a jobs bill?

I always have been a bit cynical in politics but I dared hope Obama would be different. That is why I invested so much. I wanted him to be an independent voice and take us in a new direction. Instead, when he chose his Rubini, Geitner,Summers and kept Bernanki-I realized it was SSDD (same shit different day). I am under whelmed by all this change.

Yes I realize he is dealing with shit he didn't plan on , but dammit-Obama is an intelligent man and needs to be using his own brain and have some back bone. If he were to ask Congress for something and they didn't give it to him, he should come out and ask the American people to pressure congress. Do it campaign style. Every time I get an email, I respond. Obama, you have the power, use it to help us, rally us. As much as I hate to admit it, The GOP has gotten more coverage with the teabagger outrage than the Dems have been with the "liberal" outrage. At least they are paying attention to them...hear is like being in an echo chamber with the volumn turned down.

See my moniker-it says it all.

[MissDeeds]

83. I've been writing on my donation requests, too

But it's a lot like whistling in the wind. The candidates we voted for have what they want from us, now they are going to do whatever they want, the voter be damned. I've been a Democrat all my life, but the party has become unrecognizable. Next time, I am going to vote for a true Democrat, even if I have to write someone in.

[AnneD]

92. Disillusioned.....

doesn't even come close to the way I feel:(

[prairierose]

76. k&r

:kick:

[pleah]

77. K&R

[waronbanks]

85. YUP. nt

[TwilightGardener]

87. I've noticed the "pretty speech" meme being borrowed from RWers by lefties--

and the teleprompter thing, too. I don't mind policy discussions and disagreements, but when someone on the left attacks the President (and Michelle) with the same petty nastiness and contempt as those on the right, I consider that person a troll.

[rug]

103. Eh, the West Point speech wasn't that pretty.

[bluestateboomer]

89. Big Kick!! N/T

[valerief]

90. BINGO! nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

91. She is an awesome actress!

Loved her as Princess Leia!

[SlowDownFast]

94. K&R. n/t

[newtothegame]

95. What's there to be angry about?

Think about all the cool t-shirts, mugs and collector's plates that were sold on Inauguration Day to celebrate the "historic" occasion!

[Eyerish]

96. Dammit! I hit the unrec button by mistake...

x(
So all I can do is Kick.

[xchrom]

97. recommend

[ChiciB1]

98. BIG KICK... Thanks Margot! n/r