I'm Now Against This Entire Health Care "Reform" Nonsense.

[David Zephyr]

What started out as a great idea, what held such promise for all Americans earlier this year, as our new President set out to boldly reform the American health-care system, is right before our very eyes turning into the shameless institutionalization of corporate control over the health-care forever more in this country. I've seen enough. This isn't health-care reform anymore, it is a naked power-grab by the Insurance Cartel to legislate a mandate that every American now forever more become their customers. And they get 35 million new customers in the deal.

How in the hell did we get this far down the road to such a fascist program?

The so-called Public Option, which was already a stinking compromise from universal, single payer health-care system that the American People deserve, is now a pathetic ghost of what it was originally proposed to be. How many Americans will have that "public option" --- if it is even allowed? How many? 3 Million, maybe 5 million? What in the hell are we being sold, folks?

If you have "private" health-care, you will not be able to switch it for public heath-care? In other words, will it be illegal to switch from your corporate supplier to a government supplier?

Making a profit on healing the infirm, delivering babies, and preventive health-care is OUTLAWED in many nations around the globe. It is illegal because it is considered by most people to be something where profit should not enter into the equation.

And we are about to embark on a new health-care federal policy that will make "for profit" health-care the law of the land, where everyone will have to take this mark of the corporate beast, in order to see a doctor?

What began as a noble attempt to finally to address the complete failure of the health-care delivery "system" within the United States is morphing in front of us something that will make the federal trillion dollar giveaway to the banks look mild to this corporate power grab.

Medicare for all...or nothing at all will be better than this poison pill we are about to be forced to swallow.

The health-care corporations will now hold a gun to every American's head with the federal government's blessing as they tell us: "It's your money or your life."

If you think that you've witnessed the raw power of the health-care lobby over our elected officials already, just give them 35 million more new customers and then they will own every single seat in the House of Representative and the Senate.

And we will be forever trapped into their "care".

I oppose this whole god-damned thing now. And so should every American.

And I hope it fails. Dennis Kucinich was right to have opposed it.

[asdjrocky]

1. It's crap.

But just let them pass it and they'll make it better crap. Really.

[leftstreet]

2. K&R

They didn't have the slightest f**king idea of what they were doing, and now this will come back to bite them in the ass!

[abluelady]

10. I've Said the Same Thing from the Beginning

When they started with a compromise, rather than single payer, I knew we were in for a long process, that would not fix what is so wrong. I keep saying if they talked about this from a moral issue, rather than a $$$ issue, we might have gotten farther. While I am fairly certain Repubs don't have morals, I imagine their arguing against the morality would have been hard, even for them.

[GreenArrow]

77. "didn't have the slightest f**king idea of what they were doing"

Of course they did.

[LooseWilly]

3. I can tolerate a mandate OR a shitty program... but both is worse than nothing.

I haven't heard details of what the Senate did with their bill... but yeah, I'm down with killing it.

[Frances]

4. How do you feel about the Medicare buy in?

[laughingliberal]

33. Could wind up being a saving grace which would get those who are, otherwise,

not going to be helped much by the current bills and give us something to expand on.

There are people here who have said to pass the current bill and then we could expand it and improve it. Expand what? The mandate? The fines? The crappy product they'll be selling us for higher prices year after year? Without a damned strong public option or an expansion of Medicare, there is nothing in the bill to expand.

[ipaint]

45. A nice big target for the ins. giants

to destroy. Why in the world would you take the only genuine successful gov healthcare program for older americans and force it to, even partially, compete with proven bloodsucking murderers for profit. Bad move. When it comes time for those oft fantasized about incremental changes, it will be changes for more private control.

[truedelphi]

72. Are you aware that the Senate HCR bill has about 500 billion dollars of

Cuts to medicare?

So if they allow a person previously not on MediCare to buy into it, don't be surprised if that person finds out that there are not many doctors willing to take them as new patients.

[Selatius]

86. Is there even any guarantee such an idea will make it into the final bill? nt

[leeroysphitz]

98. How does the buy in help working families?

I've heard they may lower the qualifying age to 55. Just how does that help the majority of working families? It doesn't. They know they have blown it and are trying to salvage the mess with the very smallest leakiest band-aid they could find.

[Raineyb]

101. You mean assuming one lives long enough to buy into it?

My understanding of it is you have to be 55 to buy in. That's not entirely helpful if you're 40.

[MNDemNY]

5. "The Insurance Industry Profit Protection and Anti-choice Act of 2009"

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[laughingliberal]

34. Yes, that is what Wendall Potter called the Senate Finance bill

and the current bill is, largely, modeled on that.

[Zen Democrat]

6. I disagree. Public Option is not the most important part of this bill.

People like me who are diabetic, or people who have chronic illness are uninsurable if they are laid off and lose employer-based group insurance. It's not that it's more expensive, it's that the insurance companies won't talk to you. Making it against the law to exclude people with pre-existing conditions is the core of reform for millions of Americans. There are people with plenty of money to buy health insurance, but nobody's selling to them. Fixing that and outlawing caps on annual and lifetime maximums is the heart of healthcare reform.

If you get that done, a public option is just a matter of dollars and cents, and if it doesn't happen now, it won't be long. But, it's insane to kill the bill over public option. Whether you have it now, or have it later, when the health insurance companies find that it's not cost effective for them to sell insurance without their usual and customary tricks, they will either turn those entities into non-profits, or get out of the business. Then it's HELLO to a single payer system.

I think we'll get some primitive form of public option this time. And I think we'll have single-payer in 10 years.

[niyad]

9. supposedly you cannot NOT be covered--but at what cost? and just what makes you think that

the insurance cartel, having scored such a victory, is going to back down on killing any attempt at single-payer EVER?

[laughingliberal]

35. Sure, the well off with preexisting conditions will be helped by this bill

No one else but who cares? right? How long would like the rest of us to wait?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[G_j]

69. that was a disgusting comment

EOM

[tkmorris]

90. You don't know shit about Progressives.

And I dare say you don't know shit about being sick or poor either.

[ima_sinnic]

92. gee, that's intelligent.

what's your problem, anyway?
worried that your cushy employer-provided health insurance is going to cost you more or something?

No, it's self-centered "democrats" who couldn't give two shits, not only about the sick and the poor, but also about anybody other than their own privileged selves.

You apparently think that "progressives" should do as you do and kiss the ass of the corporations because, well, they know best or something.

sheesh.

on edit: radar now out for potential additions to blood-pressure-lowering ignore list. will see what pearls of fecal matter are now dropped in the old pasture.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kdmorris]

91. Actually, that's not quite true

If you are Diabetic (like me) and you get laid off, you are able to get COBRA for up to 18 months, which counts as credible coverage for purposes of obtaining new coverage at your new job.

So, while it IS more expensive (less so after The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 was passed in February), it's not true that the insurance companies won't talk to you.

Your statements may be true of people who were laid off more than 18 months ago or those who did not have credible coverage at the time they were diagnosed, but it it NOT true, as you implied, that it happens when you are first laid off.

[mike_c]

7. I'm right with you-- I hope it fails, too....

This "reform" will set back the cause of health care reform at least a decade, IMO. Probably more. It's a disaster.

[niyad]

8. absolutely agree

[ecstatic]

11. and people with pre-existing conditions can go to hell too!

:sarcasm: :eyes:

[Schema Thing]

14. yeah, fuck them

[mdmc]

15. will they really be protected

or will they be "allowed" to buy shitty private insurance that is worthless?

I ask because I have rheumatoid arthritis. I "get" insurance through my employer, but my co-pays are too expensive to use my insurance. The idea that this wormy "reform" bill would allow my to get better insurance on my own seems... dubious..

[slipslidingaway]

24. Exactly, insurance does not guarantee access to affordable care...

10K limit on co-pays in addition to premiums will have many people not getting care...and then you have out of network charges.

:(

[David Zephyr]

39. Thank you for pointing this out.

"Will they be 'allowed to buy shitty private insurance that is worthless?"

[JoeyT]

94. No, they won't be allowed to.

They'll be forced to.
It's much better that way, you see.

[Stand and Fight]

100. My wife has it as well. We're a young couple with two young kids.

Just had a baby girl a month ago.

Needless to say, insurance companies won't even talk to me about my own private insurance policy in regards to my wife. Luckily, I am covered through my employer, but if I wasn't we'd be screwed. She takes Enbrel, Methotrexate, Folic Acid and Celebrex. Obviously, her case is severe and chronic. I'd like to go to school to finish my degree or start my own multimedia/web design company, but I can't afford to because then my wife wouldn't have coverage. I'm not convinced that these bills are going to help much of anyone.

[berni_mccoy]

20. All-or-nothing baby, all or nothing...

Let the sick and poor continue dying.

:sarcasm:

[MNDemNY]

22. up yours with your guilt trip, this bill does more harm than good.

Which insurance giant do YOU work for?

[rudy23]

99. This isn't an all or nothing argument and you know it. How are we even close to "all"?

This is a ridiculous talking point.

[Parker CA]

26. And ending those lifetime caps on care...preposterous. ;-) For people who are sick, there

are benefits from even this much less than perfect bill.

[Greyhound]

89. No, people in desperate need are the very last people that should be deciding this issue.

My families are wrestling with this very issue in multiple cases and because of the urgency I am willing, even anxious, to screw the whole nation and future of this problem to get WHAT WE NEED NOW!

And that is exactly why people in our situation can't be allowed to make the decision.

This will do far more harm than good and will likely accelerate the demise of millions over the years. Its only purpose is to further enrich the rich and shackle the rest under the perpetual threat of cuts and "austerity measures". They're coming after your SS, too.

[TorchTheWitch]

12. absolutely agree

I just came to this conclusion a lot sooner than you did.

[kenny blankenship]

13. It was a Noble Attempt - before it got to Washington

But then the shitbirds got their claws on it and tore it up and shat on it, and turned it into the opposite of what it was supposed to be.

Call it a "preemptive strike" on healthcare reform.


Michael Moore probably wakes up some days regretting he ever made Sicko.

[slipslidingaway]

18. That is the frustrating part, once they saw the original idea had virtually...

collapsed the Democrats either still pushed the idea or remained silent.

[slipslidingaway]

16. knr - I can only imagine what the reaction would be on DU if the Repubs...

were offering this mandated purchase of for profit insurance.

:(

[kenny blankenship]

23. We'd be telling them to blow their mandates out their manginas

The Repugs could never get away with forced tithing to insurance corporations in a million years. And knowing that they couldn't do it and the Democrats will probably burns 'em like holy water on a vampire.

[slipslidingaway]

32. Exactly - new word.... lol. n/t

[David Zephyr]

37. Yep.

Excellent observation.

[slipslidingaway]

48. Put the shoe on the other foot - would most people on DU favor the...

proposed legislation - I think not.

Thanks for speaking out!

:)

[laughingliberal]

44. That nails it! I have been thinking if the GOP had decided to reform health care

it would look a lot like this. In fact, it's weird they're opposing it because, except for the slight expansion to Medicaid, I can't see much of a damned thing a corpofascist Republican could object to except that it's the 'other' party doing it.

[slipslidingaway]

52. I think the role of Republicans is to make the public option as weak...

as possible - the sad part is that so many in our Party are going along with that idea.

I do agree with the Republicans that any savings from Medicare need to stay in the Medicare program, one thing that is not addressed is the number of boomers who will be eligible for Medicare in the next two decades, from 46 million to 79 million.

Even without knowing all the details, the idea that Any savings from Medicare can be used to finance HC reform does not make sense to me.

And all those boomers, plus no real push to negotiate drug prices for ALL Medicare enrollees.

:puke:

[laughingliberal]

57. Quite likely. In fact, if they were smart they'd just let us pass this disaster

and take back power by default when the American people have to start living with it and it explodes in our faces.

[slipslidingaway]

73. Unfortunately the Democrats squandered a real opportunity for reform...

and it will probably come back to haunt us in the future.

At this point I do not care much about the fate of our Party. I care about the people who will still not have access, due to large deductibles, and the future of US businesses who cannot compete with other nations.

:(

[laughingliberal]

74. They did and it will if they don't do some serious fixing before they pass this thing

and I don't hold out a lot of hope they will. It's baffling. President Obama is an, obviously, intelligent man and I thought he had good political instincts. How can he not see that saddling Americans with this burden will be a source of RW talking points for years to come? Course a lot of the worst effects won't be enacted til after 2012. So, perhaps, he believes no one will be the wiser til after it's not his concern anymore.

[slipslidingaway]

83. At this point I doubt there is much they can do, Clinton is also intelligent...

and several bills were passed during his administration that are now haunting us.

I do not think the full effects will be felt until after he has left office and the boomers begin to retire en masse.

:(

[Nikki Stone1]

17. THANK YOU!

It's unpopular to say so, and I appreciate your having done so.

[phasma ex machina]

19. +1 "This isn't health-care reform anymore, it is a naked power-grab" nt

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slipslidingaway]

28. I doubt there is one person on DU who thinks the status quo is acceptable...

and I'm tired of hearing the Democrats use that as an excuse. Just because people see the potential problems with the proposed legislation does not mean they are for the status quo.

Hit the reset button, blame it on the Repubs, and then come out in favor of a national, not for profit system for everyone.

[Parker CA]

29. Agree 100% with your last sentiment. Being sick sucks. Every additional protection helps.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. The good parts of the bill could be passed separately

1. No restrictions for pre-existing conditions
2. No rescissions

There's too much extraneous junk in the current bills that could seriously harm other people, like the ones who can't afford insurance now and would be forced to buy it anyway or pay a fine or the people over fifty who would be price-gouged because while discrimination for pre-existing conditions would be forbidden, discrimination based on age would be permitted.

Saying that we have to pass the whole stinking mess because of a couple of good provisions is like saying that I want raisins so I'm going to buy that whole moldy loaf of raisin bread.

[slipslidingaway]

31. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[David Zephyr]

43. Well said!

The Republican are already almost all on board to eliminate pre-existing conditions and rescissions, so you make a very good point, Lydia.

Pass the good parts separately. There's no excuse for not putting that to a vote now without all the other "extraneous junk" as you call it or "chains" as I now see it.

[ipaint]

47. Yes, that's called REGULATION.

A concept that seems to have been bred out of democrats, both politicians and their centrist supporters, the last 2 decades.

NO MANDATE.

[ThomThom]

78. we could also regulate the profit like medicare does

or how about medicare for all a one line bill

[ipaint]

80. If it was me

The insurance companies would cease to exist. A million+ people dead in 20 years. That's the kind of track record the companies that provide access to care have that we are now chaining ourselves to.
They are 100% unnecessary and ad nothing of value to healthcare but...

most people with investments either income and/or retirement wouldn't do too well should we do the right thing. Wall street is standing right behind the ins. companies in obstructing anything that would cut into profits.

Class is the heart of all our problems.

[scarletwoman]

51. +100,000,000,000,000,000!!!!! Truly, the best solution!

Rein in insurance company abuses first, THEN work on universal health CARE.

sw

[David Zephyr]

56. I'm on board.

Lydia has it right.

[Mithreal]

102. Keep pushing that, excellent point and not said often enough

that last sentence.

[laughingliberal]

36. It does me no good to pass a law forcing the insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions but

putting no limits on what they can charge me. If I can't afford it, what? Take comfort in the fact they would have to cover me if my ship ever comes in? Feel warm and fuzzy cause the fine I'm paying is offsetting the government's cost?

Oh, yes, I'm as excited about this as I was while I waited for the wealth to trickle down from the top while I busted my ass for 25 years watching my life and future get eaten up by stagnating wages and higher demands for productivity every year.

[QC]

38. BINGO! n/t

[walldude]

50. I have a family full of "pre-existing" conditions... my worry is

If the bill passes and there is a high or no cap on what insurance companies can charge then I'll be fucked even worse. I'll either have to pay 2 grand a month or 3000 dollar fine per year. YEah this is a good plan for middle class people with pre-existing conditions :eyes:

[mdmc]

58. I have a similar fear

I currently have health insurance that I cannot afford to access due to high co-payments. How would this bill help me? Aside from giving my man Obama a victory I mean..

[walldude]

61. I don't think it's much of a victory for him..

if it passes the way we think it will he's going to have both sides of the aisle pissed at him..

[mdmc]

71. fo'sho

no doubt...

[mdmc]

55. I have a pre-existing condition too

(rheumatoid arthritis)..

But I can't currently use my employer provided "health insurance" because the co-pays are un-affordable.

I mean, I would have better insurance by going on disability. The illness just about disabled me.

How would the reform bill being debated help you or me out?

Sure, they can currently deny me health insurance (unless I get it through work). But after the bill passes, what stops corporations from making my (or your) coverage un-affordable (like mine currently is)?

Health insurance don't mean shit if you can't afford to use it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I've said this from the beginning

It's all "Let's pretend to reform health care and bail out the insurance companies at the same time. Then when people find out that they're mandated to buy crappy insurance at high prices, the idea of health care reform will be discredited for a generation."

If the Dems were SINCERE about reforming health care, they would take HR676 as their starting point. But no, they have the frigging insurance companies help them write the bill.

If the Dems were SINCERE about reforming health care, they would have looked at one of the four basic models for health care reform seen around the world, one of the wheels that has already been invented:

1. Single payer (Canada)
2. National health service (Britain)
3. Heavily regulated private insurance companies that are forbidden to do about 90% of the things that our insurance companies do (Germany)
4. Heavily regulated private system with a public option that is open to anyone (Japan)

These wheels have already been invented. They all cover 100% of legal residents at less per person than our non-system. These wheels go round and round like they're supposed to.

But our Dems have presentend us with a square wheel that has spikes on it, and we're supposed to be grateful.

I don't THINK so.

[glitch]

41. You know how it is so important to RepliCons that Obama have no successes?

Well it is equally important to the DemoCons (DLCers) that there be no Progressive successes.

[branders seine]

27. this is a shit burrito.

without the tortilla.

they can call it chocolate all day and it will still be shit.

[Dragonfli]

40. I'm opposing it as well, if this mandated profit plan goes through....

Every working person that I know will end up with a bill they can't afford for a policy that covers shit and has deductibles too high to use. So many of my peers are going to end up having a "fine" taken from them that they also can't afford and will still lack actual health care.

The passage of this corporate profit scheme will mean the end of middle class working people ever voting Democratic again, Limousine liberals literally have no clue how much this is hurting us right now and how much more it will hurt us after the profit reform. Upper middle class and Rahm's millionaire friends will be OK but not most workers.

Why are they intent on destroying the Democratic party just to please a few corporations and right wing infiltrators like Rahm and his blue dog and DLC minority? Don't they know the VOTES actually come from people like me?

[leftstreet]

46. They must surely be certain the Repubs won't go populist

...which probably isn't difficult given that everyone in DC is bought and paid for

The dead Republican party could make a decades strong comeback by going antiwar and pro single payer.

The fact that they won't proves there's only 1 party in the US

[Dragonfli]

53. Well, when the time comes rather than try to convince them to vote D against their judgement

I may try suggesting third party rather than them just staying home.
(I am talking about the working class independents I meet that I got to vote for Obama last time).

They won't trust THAT BS again, and some are blaming me, but maybe I can show the merit of building a third party to combat the corporate uni-party that keeps screwing them. All those disenfranchised working people may help build a labor party.

Maybe it is finally time, lord knows I will not be canvassing three districts again for Obama (I foolishly got him lots of working votes last time - I helped them screw themselves unknowingly).

Time to use my power for good I guess.
Or just give up.

[JoeyT]

95. I know how you feel

I've got a whole bunch of friends and family that are pissed at me for talking them into voting for Obama and other Democrats because they've done nothing but kowtow to corporations. Next time I don't think I'll bother.

[mdmc]

60. If the GOP threw in the towel on the drug war, I'd be hard pressed

not to give em a good hard look..

[loyalkydem]

42. Medicare for all

and even then those repubks still won't back it.

[KansDem]

49. "If you have "private" health-care, you will not be able to switch it for public heath-care?"

I've thought about this many times. So if the PO is better than my private plan, I can't switch? Or will the PO be so bad that I won't want to? How is that "free to choose?" How is that "increasing quality while reducing costs?"*

It's all horseshit!
________
*Not my belief but one that's been crammed down our throats for several decades now by the Corporate Communists. You know..."competition?"

[slipslidingaway]

54. And you will not be eligible for subsidies unless you purchase from...

the exchange. Yet access to the exchange will be severely limited, with a promise, not a guarantee, to open it up in the future.

Sorry, I'm not buying this either.

[Shandris]

59. To all you folks with pre-existing conditions...

...saying Fuck You to those who are against what this bill has become (and I must number myself among them), listen for a moment please. Just because you can no longer be excluded because of pre-existing conditions IN NO WAY means that you will have access to the best care that they give all their other private purchasers. Do you REALLY think that they won't make a new 'product' specifically for you that is just as much horseshit as the current system? Thats the solution that corporations use in cases like this. ALWAYS. Without exception. And the 'new product' is invariable actually created simply to shut you up and fuck you over. Take a look at banking 'products' for the non-investor class over the last...oh I don't know...20 years.

I sympathize wholeheartedly with you but I think at this point you're being strung along as the sympathetic vote that will push this horrible bill through, only to get used and discarded the moment its passed. Its not being done for you, this whole fucking thing is for the corporate interests now. And no matter how pretty they make it sound, YOU...are not corporate interest.

Maybe I'm wrong, it'll pass, and good things will happen for you. But I doubt it. And the fact that once a bill is passed, they don't like to revisit them for YEARS doesn't give me much hope for ANY of us, certainly not enough to expect single payer within 10 years. It'll be lucky to get reconsidered within 10 DECADES.

[mdmc]

62. This pre-existing condition person agrees with you

peace and low stress..

[Shandris]

65. And to you, friend.

May you have a good holiday season. :grouphug:

[Cleita]

63. I just heard the most heartless explanation today as to why we are getting

this watered down reform and corporate welfare health package. They couldn't give us a bill with only Democrats on board and no Republicans. It would be bad politics. :wtf: Why couldn't we have an American bill for all Americans? Fuck Democrats and Republicans. This is what happens when our rulers are a bunch of clueless billionaires. :grr:

[mdmc]

64. I see it kinda in the same light

except corporations own both parties, and single payer health care is not in the corporate interest.
So we get fucked.

[Shandris]

67. Billionaires, certainly.

Not sure about 'clueless', unfortunately.

I think the whole thing speaks more of collusion than cluelessness. We're not a corporate interest either and therein lies the problem.

Late last night, while up with a toothache I turned to Faux's 'Cavuto on Business' to hear him rant on about how evil, how truly communistic it was for an Obama adviser to say that the corporate CEO's should pay attention to community and not JUST profits. He literally ranted about it for over 5 minutes, with his guest getting in the occasional line.

Never thought I'd see the day when BEN STEIN disagreed with that filthy Cavuto. But the whole thing speaks volumes, VOLUMES about why for-profit is a vile way to do health care.

[David Zephyr]

82. "billionaires".

You said it, Cleita. That's right at the root of the problem.

The U.S. Senate is now like the Roman Senate. We have a patrician class and a plebian class.

[GreenArrow]

79. It's a piece of cheese

in a rat trap.

[kdmorris]

103. I have Diabetes

It's controlled with medications, diet and exercise.

And I'm not even close to being under the illusion that this bill does ANYTHING for me. As long as health care is for profit, I KNOW that, at any minute a CEO can look at me and see that I'm not making them a profit. Just because they can't then cancel my insurance doesn't mean that they can't shove me into a high deductible, low ceiling plan that will make them more money (and that I will be forced to take because insurance will be mandated) while making it impossible to me to actually afford said medications, doctors visits, etc.

[Atticus]

66. "How in the hell did we get this far down the road to such a fascist program?"

Uh, that would be "bipartisanship", sir. Haven't you heard? It's all the rage among the Potomac crowd! The "new paradigm", don't you know?

[G_j]

70. they should have tried campaign finance reform first

because without that we are unlikely to get a single progressive policy passed, ever!

[ThomThom]

75. They have missed the whole point of reform

We should be reining them in not giving them more control. For profit health care should be stopped. And the drug companies .... they make the greedy banksters look like angels.

[Skittles]

76. it's utter garbage

[David Zephyr]

84. This utter garbage consumed the entire year of a super majority Democratic Congress.

And it ate up the first year of Obama's presidency.

I wish he'd concentrated on job creation.

The Democrats will be eaten alive next November with the pain families are feeling.

[arcadian]

81. Clinton healthcare debacle redux

It was planned that way.

[UrbScotty]

85. So you're okay with letting people die because something isn't perfect?

The right-wing has let thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people die because of a lack of health insurance.

We don't need people on the left to allow this tragedy to continue.

[ZombieHorde]

88. "We don't need people on the left to allow this tragedy to continue."

Wouldn't this require price caps?

[Zhade]

87. Indeed.

NT!

[PATRICK]

93. Letter from my Congressman

I'd like to share the following e-mail on the House vote


Because you have previously been in touch about health issues, I am writing to let you know why I voted "no" on the 2009 major health care reform bill (H.R. 3962). Being accountable to you for my actions, perhaps you will forgive a detailed response.



Since entering Congress on January 6, 2009, I have devoted more time and thought to health care reform than any other issue. Health care has been discussed this year in every one of my more than 60 town halls and 300 house parties. My staff and I read, digested and replied to over 15,000 letters, faxes, emails and phone calls, went over countless briefs, white papers, studies and analyses, reflecting every possible perspective and interest.



Not a single day went by without representatives of professional health care providers, patients, specific disease groups, insurances companies, unions, academic experts, think tank executives, medical students, medical supplies sales people, hospital executives and a surprising number of sick people, contacting us. Every single voice and concern was carefully listened to.



Various draft bills were read and discussed with Congressional colleagues and the House leadership. I continuously listened and read; and tried my very best to absorb and understand all this information.



At the very beginning of this debate, I made clear my support for a single-payer health system. This is rooted in experiences in the US Navy and as a survivor of a deadly cancer. Achieving health care reform is - and remains - a very high priority.



Having spent much of the last ten months studying, listening to constituents and considering this, I could not support H.R. 3962, the health reform bill presented to us by House leadership. This position is best for my constituents and best for our country.



Now let me briefly explain my vote.



At the start of the debate earlier this year, many agreed the objectives were to: make clinically needed health care available to all Americans; to ensure health care is affordable for most individuals and families, so more Americans could pay for their own coverage; bring total annual health care expenditures into line with the rest of the developed world, below 17.7% of gross domestic product; ensure consistently high quality care; and reduce the total money spent on system waste, fraud inefficiency and poor management.



Unfortunately, H.R. 3962 will not deliver these goals. Its primary strategy is to achieve more and better care by the federal government's regulation of the private insurance industry. But the so-called "Public Option," which is supposed to compete for customers with private providers, is too weak to be much of a competitor. Estimates are that it will attract only six million customers; and this will make its risk pool too small and too dominated by lower-income, less healthy purchasers whom the private companies do not much want anyway. This will ensure our national dependence on publicly subsidized and partially regulated private insurance, provided through employers, the permanent and central element of U.S. health care for the indefinite future. But if private insurance sold to employers was the answer, we would not be in the mess we are.



Private insurance premium costs will continue to increase and more people will lose access to care. Further, the individual mandate forcing private citizens to buy mostly private care or face substantial annual fines, may not be constitutional. And burdening private businesses with the legal burden of providing health care insurance will leave them at a serious competitive disadvantage with foreign companies who face no such costs. Many firms will be fined and further harmed for not providing care.



The bill, compared to the size of the problem, does little to truly force out waste, fraud, abuse and mismanagement; and this in turn increases the money that must be raised either by new revenue streams or reductions in existing health programs, to pay the new bills.



The bill leaves rural health care providers permanently disadvantaged. And the expansion of Medicaid eligibility could lead to significant pressures for higher New York state taxes and county real estate taxes. The middle of an economic down-turn is a bad time for tax raises.



It does very little to increase the number of primary care or family physicians who, along with advanced practice nurses and nurse practitioners, are central to more prevention and wellness programs. Overall, this bill makes our national health care system administratively more cumbersome, bureaucratic and unnecessarily expensive.



So I entered the House of Representatives on Saturday, November 7th, 2009 and voted "no." This decision bitterly disappointed some of you. It saddens me too, as the nation badly needs a system which can do a better job of helping us to be healthier, at lower costs. Unfortunately, the House bill's passage through the Senate and a subsequent conference will almost certainly further weaken an already-flawed piece of legislation.



So what can I say to those who need health reform now?



Whether or not any act emerges from Congress, the health reform process will go on; and I am sworn to work with all constituents to build a better system. In the days ahead you will be hearing from me on continuing steps to reform our nation's health care system.



We cannot give in to apathy or cynicism. That would be a betrayal to us and our children.




Sincerely,

Eric J.J. Massa

[leeroysphitz]

97. You are correct. The bill as it stands now is GARBAGE. It will hurt working families

and it should be vigorously opposed.

Those who foist it upon us should not be re-elected they should be vigorously opposed through primary challenges if that fails then people should stay home on election day. They need to feel consequences and learn a lesson.

I want my party back.