Question: Why was the Antiwar movement during Vietnam unsuccessful?

[berni_mccoy]

This is a serious question. Many here have pointed out that the anti-war movement is practically non-existant right now. I would wager that if there were a draft, you'd have a strong anti-war movement. But that got me thinking. Was the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War successful in bringing the war to an end? Did it have an impact? That war went on for almost two decades and it didn't really end with Vietnam. Vietnam was just a proxy war in the larger Cold War, which you could say only ended when the Soviet Union fell apart (some would argue, the cold war is still going on). And the end of the Soviet Union, and thus, the Cold War had little to do with the anti-war movement.

Granted, I'm not asking or suggesting that the movement didn't accomplish anything. It did, certainly, to raise awareness of the ugly truth of war. I think it very unlikely that we'll see a draft any time soon *because* of the antiwar movement. But I'd like to understand if my perception is wrong that the the anti-war movement actually brought an end to the Vietnam or Cold War. Was the impact of the anti-war movement more subtle than perception? Was the anti-war movement the butterfly in Africa that caused a hurricane on the East Coast?

Thanks and peace.

[niyad]

1. so a person asks a serious question about a serious issue, and it gets un'recced right off?

[TexasObserver]

73. Because it makes an inaccurate statement, and it's more of the same.

You get one vote. Use it and stop thinking others should always share your opinion of what constitutes a thread worth recommending.

[timeforpeace]

2. What makes you say it was unsuccessful?

[mitchum]

38. Because it was?

[The Straight Story]

3. A good question worth discussing, let me add my two cents

I was born in 1965 - I remember, for some odd reason, a lot of things from that period (chalk it up to there being only 3 stations, parents talking about it, etc).

One thing I remember was being in Byesville, Ohio to visit our grandparents and getting ready to head home and having heard something about the KKK doing a protest back home in Columbus (Ohio). I was scared about going home.

Mom said "Don't worry about them, they are stupid" or something along that lines - and I felt comforted by that and a pic on the news that many others were there protesting them (protesting/conflict to a little kid can seem to be more than it is at times, so seeing all those people yelling at each other was scary to me).

What did it all do???

It taught many others that they were not alone, it taught us to fight with each other, and it taught me that there were people out there that a person could count on (lessons I learned much later in life but map back to then).

It does NOT have to change policy right then to be effective.

It change the hearts and minds of others to hopefully change the future for the better.

[Warpy]

4. The antiwar movement is unsuccessful because the media

are owned by 5 massive conglomerates that also own a considerable piece of the military contractor pie. Demonstrations that occurred were simply ignored.

During the runup to the illegal Iraq war, demonstrations exceeded anything we had managed during Vietnam. In addition, they drew people of all ages and from all walks of life, instead of only students and other young people.

It would have been big news in any other country. Here, they simply ignored it to death.

[valerief]

41. I agree. It's more the lack of a free press now than the draft factor then. nt

[laughingliberal]

47. I think that is a huge difference. We did have more of a free press in those days nt

[AllentownJake]

5. Because the people protesting the war were also counter cultural

and as such offended the traditional middle class of the country, it lead to the formation of the Christian Right (that and civil rights).

[berni_mccoy]

10. "it lead to the formation of the Christian Right"

That's a damn scary thought, and I hope that you'd be wrong...

but thinking about it, makes me dread that you are right.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. I disagree

The Christian right has always been here. They were empowered by Goldwater and the Civil Rights movement in the early 60s. Then they were empowered again in the late 60s. But the anti-war movement and the counter culture of the 60s did not help create the Christian right.

[monmouth]

6. I recall the media, in a very subtle way, diminishing the anti-war folks

as dirty hippies who hated America. Not always of course, but news programs rarely missed an opportunity to seem to make fun of them. Then one night Walter Cronkite, as the story has been repeated numerous times, came out and denounced the war. He never made fun of the anti-war group and not too much later LBJ realized that war was lost. Kent State was a horrific event that was the beginning of the end of that nightmare. I had three kids under the age of 7 at the time and could only grab news in dribs and drabs but that is the essence of it.

[cliffordu]

12. Not to hijack this thread but I believe that Kent State effectively turned the

volume down on a lot of protests -

and I also believe, for no particular reason, that Nixon ordered that, and that's why the 18 minute gap in that famous tape.....

[givemebackmycountry]

18. There you go...

I was just about to add "uh, because they SHOT us"

I use the term "us" lightly -
I was born in 55 but I was well aware of what was going on because my Dad use to come home cursing about them every night.
He was a NYC construction worker - a "hardhat' and there were protests every day in the city.

[cliffordu]

21. I was in Vietnam then -

We thought the US was coming apart at the seams -

And reinforced our hatred for the 'weekend warriors' that ran around playing army all the time without doing a tour.

That was an idiotic stance, but that's what it was.

Those fucking boys NEVER should have had live ammo.

On the other hand, it's a great thing they were lousy shots. Prolly saved dozens more.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. The Marquee at UCLA said the next day "National Guard 4 Students 0"

And, the polls showed that most people supported the National Guard over the "Peacenik Hippies".

For those of us who thought that the American People only had to see what our government really stood for it was a sad day and a revelation.

[cliffordu]

50. Yep - very "lawandorder' kind of country for the most part....

[Blue_In_AK]

37. I hadn't really thought about it that way,

but I think you may be right. The culmination of Manson, Altamont and Kent State pretty much ended the era. Even the music changed from protest songs to James Taylor, Elton John, etc. The hippies moved to the country, and the next thing you know we've got disco.

[hootinholler]

45. Was that gap and Kent syncronized?

:shrug:

What leads you to that idea about the missing content?

-Hoot

[cliffordu]

49. I don't honestly know if they are synchronous or not -

I was just wondering one afternoon what could be so foul and egregious and hideously illegal that he would risk an 18 minute gap in tapes that basically proved, among other things that he was racist, anti-semitic, and knew and covered up for the Watergate burglars....

What is worse than that???

Murder would do it.

I'll look up the dates.....

[cliffordu]

52. Kent state was may 4, 1970

Te 18 minute gap was October 1, 1973


So it really means nothing, although it could be what was discussed - Nixon was such a criminal through and through, and after they tried to destroy Ellsberg I wouldn't put it past them...

[RKP5637]

20. Yep, certainly correct! I recall it well! n/t

[pipoman]

44. The media does this with nearly every

grass roots, subversive, or extreme group regardless of the politics of the group. I, personally, think that any time there are groups rising to a call over passion for their convictions in great numbers and across geographical and demographic bounds, we should all take note of these groups regardless of their positions. It is hard to get Americans across the street for a free meal...if numbers of them feel strongly enough to demonstrate it is worthy of at least understanding the underlying reasons for their emotion/convictions...dismissal of active, right wing movements is a mistake which is made by many here on DU, IMO.

[Turbineguy]

7. A lot of the anti-war

movement then was perceived as useful idiots for Moscow. Not that all were, but it tended to look that way.

This war (and both Iraq wars) were based on an entirely different premise.

I think when the focus became solely on Vietnam, it went better and in the end, the draft, the strategy, the sad waste and loss of life and the fact that the media got involved all made a difference.

One of the smart things the neo-cons did was not spread the sacrifice. People were buying new cars and taking cruises. Bush even extended the bill by fighting the war with borrowed money. Only the families who had relatives killed or maimed seemed to be paying the price.

[customerserviceguy]

The anti-Communism stance of the country

did weaken the effect of the war protestors. But I disagree with the premise that the Vietnam antiwar movement was not effective. We did start winding the war down in about 1973, I would have been drafted the year after that if it had not begun the process then called "Vietnamization".

After that, we really didn't give a flying fuck if the North Vietnamese were going to break the peace treaty or not.

[Turbineguy]

81. I don't think the effort was ineffective

But the Vietnam war was a distraction to the larger threat. I don't know that many saw it that way, but is was.

[Peacetrain]

8. I think its like anything that happens, or movements etc.. it impact is for one or two years

at the most, and effects the people who come of age during that time period for the longest... and then it has to be addressed again for a new audience in a different way.

I have seen the word "hippy" being used lately, and I came of age during that period,.. and what came after the late 60's was the "me" generation of the 70's and hippies were totally derided.

[MadHound]

9. I wouldn't say that the anti-war movement was unsuccessful

It brought the issue to the forefront of the national consciousness and eventually changed public opinion to the point where the vast majority of Americans became opposed to the Vietnam war. This alone made the movement a success.

Furthermore, the anti-war movement provided the impetus and training ground for other movements that sprang up, such as the women's movement, the gay rights movement, etc.

[berni_mccoy]

11. Ok, I acknowledge that it did a lot more than it's original purpose...

but did it truly bring about an end to the war (Vietnam, and the broader Cold War).

[timeforpeace]

26. So other than being 180 degrees off the mark, the OP is dead on.

[berni_mccoy]

30. How is asking a question being 180 degrees off the mark?

[emulatorloo]

16. I agree. I think the war ended sooner because of it. So it was hardly a failure n/t

[RKP5637]

22. Same here!!! I think it helped a lot! n/t

[phasma ex machina]

31. +1

[DURHAM D]

28. I agree with you.

It was successful.

Also, have you noticed that you can't find anyone today over 50 who claims they were not against the war at the time?

Even my own idiot rightwing brother-in-law (who is 68) and was in the navy reserves during Vietnam claimed this past Thanksgiving that he was against the war at the time. I chocked on my mashed potatoes. His two 40 something boys started laughing at my reaction because they knew their dad had a newly minted anti-Vietnam position. The result was a giant family argument about Vietnam. I didn't participate as my sister and the children took the lying bastard to task.

I spent my time explaining to his grandchildren ages 8-13 what was going on. Their reaction - that is ancient history - why are they still arguing about it? I told them it was because their grandfather had finally seen the light and it only took him 45 years. I also explained that you can not change your personal history when there are others around who remember the true story.

[mamaleah]

13. In what way do you mean unsuccesssful?

Because it didn't happen overnight and took years to sink in? That's how all movements are, sadly. People do not see one protest and say "Oh...yeah you are right!".

[Drunken Irishman]

17. But how much of that was because of the anti-war movement?

I'd wager a small amount. It came to an end once it became clear things were not getting any better. It became toxic and it wasn't those protesting who brought that to the forefront. It was the bodies coming home in caskets and the draft.

Oh and Walter Cronkite saying the war was a disaster.

[mamaleah]

19. I think it was successful because it did raise awareness.

You sometimes have to see the smaller victories.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

14. One word

well actually two; :)
Draft
Nightly TV coverage
OOps- misread your headline. I'd say it was successful, for the reasons I listed.
The Iraq anti war movement has not been successful because these two things are missing.

[David Zephyr]

15. The Antiwar movement during Vietnam was successful.

It successfully turned public opinion from supporting the war to opposing it, thereby bringing about it's successful end and our acceptance of our defeat in a war that should have never been waged.

The Antiwar movement during Vietnam was successful.

[lunatica]

23. The anti-war movement was part of the whole social revolution of the time

It started getting violent after 1968. One reason was during the primaries and Democratic Convention when a bunch of thugs were ordered to beat up demonstrators in Chicago. People were objecting to the war because young men were being drafted into a war that eventually killed something like 25,000 American soldiers and probably millions of Vietnamese.

1968 was a very bad year for the entire surge of popular counter-culture movement. It was the year that MLK Jr and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated. 1967 was the year of the Summer of Love which ended when Charles Manson and his group viciously murdered Sharon Tate and others. The mood turned ugly and Woodstock in 1969 pretty much marked the swan song of the popular movement.

Nixon became President in 1969 and escalated the Vietnam war initially and ordered illegal incursions into other countries surrounding Vietnam. His response to the demonstrations was violent, which backfired on him since by that time no one wanted to be drafted into a bloody and meaningless war. People were fighting for their lives by then. He was eventually pressured into negotiating a cease fire with North Vietnam, which I recall seemed to take forever. Then he committed the crimes of ordering a break in to find dirt and secrets about the Democratic National Committee in the Watergate office building.

[county worker]

24. This isn't really an answer to your question, but,

For many years now I have read many things about the Vietnam anti war movement on DU and in my opinion, what passes for truth is what the majority believes. It may be true history but I feel the opinion is tainted by putting it into today's context.

I was in Vietnam and got out in 1968. I was against the war while in Vietnam. I came out trying to convince people that the war was not worth the lives of any of us. I have my recollections of the anti war movement and they don't match the majority opinion of DU.

I don't understand two things, how people ever got it into their heads that the draft ended the war or will end current or future wars. The majority of Americans were pro war until we moved into Cambodia and Walter Cronkite told us it was not winnable.

Second, why do so many DUers think that the anti war movement was all non violent?

[berni_mccoy]

29. Thanks for the historical perspective and for your service

I was young during this conflict and don't have a full appreciation for everything that happened. I have heard similar things from family who did serve and were older during that time.

[county worker]

35. Because of all of this I came up with this saying, history is written by those who didn't live it.

The other thing I learned was that each generation has to learn these lessons for themselves. Someone like me can't teach people younger than me, they just are too busy with their lives and don't want to hear anything from people like me.

[lunatica]

56. See my post #23 above yours

I try to explain why it turned violent. Plus I agree with your recollection.

[county worker]

59. It seems to me that the violence was a result of the ineffectiveness of the anti war movement.

A smaller subset of the movement got so pissed that they resorted to violence. The Chicago police riot changed many of the minds of older people who went along with the war because that is what we did, support our country in war. The Democratic convention in Chicago contrasted the feelings of the anti war movement with the apathy of most of the country.

On edit,

I also think that the violence of the anti war movement was part of a lessen learned from the Civil Rights movement. MLK was non violent as was SNCC. But the Panthers lead to the Weather Underground and SDS.

[CTyankee]

25. I worked in the antiwar movement. You could see the numbers at protests dwindle rapidly

afterthe draft was abolished. It sucked the oxygen out of the movement very quickly.

However, a new wind was blowing. Out of the antiwar movement the seeds of feminism were waiting to become full blown flowers and that happened. What also came to flower, but a bit later, was the anti-abortion movement. There were those in the antiwar movement, particularly with the clergy, who were together against the war but who were also anti-choice. So I view it now as a kind of double edged sword, neither completely one nor the other.

[Generic Other]

32. The anti-war movement was not unsuccessful

It just took the citizens of this country a long time to come to grips with the fact that the Vietnamese had a greater willingness to die than we had to kill. That's what ended the war.

[Fire1]

33. It was hardly "unsuccessful." The burning of draft cards,

Young men migrating to Canada, burning the flag on national television, the continuous rage outside the window of the WH where LBJ ate breakfast every a.m. and televised songs of protest by every known entertainer at every opportunity certainly increased awareness and changed perceptions to a great extent! LBJ was in a moral and political quandry, to the point the man had a heart attack!

[DURHAM D]

40. I have two classmates that moved to Canada.

They never moved back.

They did come home for the 40th high school reunion and brought their children and grandchildren. They never regretted their decision. They were treated like heroes by everyone at the reunion - although back at the time many called them cowards.

[Fire1]

48. So true and good for them!! Glad to hear it! n/t

[L0oniX]

34. DUH ...it was very successful. The Kent State murders by our troops changed a lot of minds.

[branders seine]

36. the antiwar movement during Viet Nam was successful

because the media still included journalists.

The antiwar movements during the various Middle Eastern invasions (Desert Storm, dubya's war) failed because it was not covered by the media; therefore, it didn't happen.

Also, people are comfortable and complacent and unwilling to engage in civil disobedience.

[truedelphi]

55. Exactly. Without the mefdia, it is hard to make any meaningful

Activities - rallies, protests, etc.

The classic case of a big tree falling in the woods but no one is there to hear it.

[rug]

39. It was successful in making Johnson a one term president.

[struggle4progress]

42. "Won" in what sense? The first few national anti-war protests were attended by only a handful

of people; a few years later, in 1968, there was widespread agreement in the US that the VN war should end

But a war is a big machine with tremendous momentum. When tens of thousands have died, it is very difficult to say Oops! Sorry! It was all a mistake! -- because the families and friends of the casualties naturally do not at all want to hear that. The politicians who supported the war never want to say they were wrong. When a big chunk of the economy depends on war production, factory owners and factory workers will shout with one voice that the war is necessary. And World War II and its aftermath still cast a long shadow. In the late 60s, the last WWII draftees were in their early 40s; and the Berlin Wall was less than a decade old. Even among the liberal Democrats, there were quite a few Cold Warriors

In 1968, Nixon had put together a new political coalition, consisting of segregationists, anti-intellectuals, and other rightwingers, together with traditional Republican conservatives and corporatists -- and a number of people who voted for him thought they voting to end the war. But Nixon's supporters functioned in effect as a unified pro-war movement -- his base was held together by the desire for law and order and days gone by: they were terrified by people who questioned authority -- by civil rights marches and uppity women and free love and the anti-nuke folk and students who wondered whether capitalism was really the best possible social system

Meanwhile the 1968 assassinations, the behavior of the police at the March on the Pentagon and at the Chicago conventions, and later events like Kent State in 1970 generated enormous cynicism. The anti-establishment movement inevitably splintered: it was always a huge ungainly social grouping, that involved all sorts of different philosophical alignments -- and by the early 1970s, the hippies I met (for example) had a variety of different views: some were genuine social radicals; some were interested in drugs and sex; some simply wanted to farm quietly somewhere and be left alone; some were rightwing libertarians; and so on

[fishnfla]

43. several reasons

Jane Fonda sitting on an anti-aircraft weapon in North Vietnam
Protesters waving the battle flag of North Vietnam at rallies
US Soldiers in the A Shau Valley finding war supplies in Viet Cong tunnels " A gift to you from your friends at the University of California Berkeley"
Sterling Hall bombing at the University Wisconsin in 1970 which damaged dozens of building and killed an innocent researcher

[berni_mccoy]

46. Wow. I knew about Jane Fonda, but not the other stuff.

[proteus_lives]

53. My father told me about stuff like that.

He is a combat Vietnam Vet and while he didn't have any problem with an anti-war movement, he was often disgusted by the support for the people shooting at him that some US citizens expressed.

[fishnfla]

60. I believe

Ms Fonda today regrets her actions
The PBS documentary on the VietNam shows the flags waving at protests. I watched the documentary for a course on VietNam at the University of Wisconsin Madison, circa 1986. The auditorium echoed with boos and hisses at the images.
The tunnel findings are discussed in the book Hamburger Hill by Samuel Zaffiri
The Sterling Hall bombing effectively put a finish to the anti-war movement. Last I heard one of the guys responsible is running a business on State Street in Madison.

Antiwar sentiment in America DID help cause the war to come to an end, but not because of the protests. Ho Chi Minh wanted the Tet offensive to be a military shock and a victory that brought America public opinion to its knees. It was a military disaster for the Communists, but it did shock American sentiment nonetheless

[Nikki Stone1]

51. The movement was starting to be very successful, which is why it was co-opted

and infiltrated with undercover agents and hard drugs.

[laughingliberal]

58. I hadn't connected that until just now but you're right

I remember the whole tone changing when the harder drugs started hitting the streets. And it seems it was around the same time the police brutality increased at the rallies. But that was my perspective from being involved in the movement in Memphis and very young. I was 13 at my first rally.
I only hope I can live out the rest of my years without experiencing tear gas again.

[Shandris]

63. Well lets not forget the rise of radicalism...

...that came to be associated with it. A conglomerate of the Weather Underground, Black Panthers, hard drugs, Kent State, the deaths of Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin... The Rolling Stones concert in Al..Al...Al-something. Overall, it left a bad taste in the collective mouths of many people and that collective distaste has yet to disappear. At least...thats how its seen from my part of the country (admittedly, Rethuglican heaven).

The freedom of the 70's is overlooked in the tide of 'bad blood' that ended in the sixties and is labeled 'The Counterculture Era'. The Anti-war movement has the distinct misfortune of being assumed to be one of the bad effects of the CC.

[Nikki Stone1]

66. Infiltration. Think about Bill Ayers.

I know the RW made a big deal about him during the election, but think about it this way.

A non-violent San Diego woman was hunted down after years on a 30 year old heroin conviction and made to "serve her time":

http://www.10news.com/news/16192864/detail.html

But Ayers, who allegedly planned much of the Weather Underground's agenda, is a respected "educator" and alleged past acquaintance of a US president. And don't tell me they couldn't have done something with him. People who are a real danger to the government end up being shot or in car accidents.

[laughingliberal]

68. I remember wondering during the election about that. Here he was supposed to have been such an

unrepentant terrorist but charges against him were dropped because of abuses in the FBI's covert operations. It is suspicious, is it not?

Seems I met quite a few Peace Corps volunteers who seemed a little more than they professed to be at times.

[laughingliberal]

67. That would be Altamont...and I guess I was part of the radical movement

albeit a small part. I do remember meeting with a group wanting to get a branch of the Weathermen operating in Memphis. And I was with a group who met with Stokely Carmichael about trying to bring him into the fold and coordinating the Panther's activities with the overall movement. Not sure how it played anywhere else. Pissed my parents off pretty badly, though. They were followers of MLK in the mode of nonviolent demonstration and working within the power structures to change them.

[Nikki Stone1]

65. It's pretty obvious in hindsight.

But, it's hard to gauge at the time. Just consider that the CIA was disseminating LSD and other drugs (MKULTRA) and that there is a regular pattern of infiltration in anti-war movements, up to the present time. And if Ramsey Clark's ANSWER isn't a plant, I'll eat my hat.

[laughingliberal]

70. Well, that would make sense but I never even thought of it til now.

I was just such a baby during those days. Naive, gullible, and still believed we would change the world. Guess we did change it for a while but it seems it changed back.

[laughingliberal]

54. There are a lot of questions in my mind about it

I think we were successful in that we probably got out of Viet Nam sooner than we would have. I think the horror of Kent State changed some minds. I wonder, though, at other results of the movement. We ran a president of our own party out of office and it set the stage for Nixon to win the presidency which I believe set the stage for the big RW backlash we have been living through ever since. It's a complicated question for me and it is sad to remember how convinced I was, in those days, that we would change the world. That was an era in which some important gains were made for minorities and women. But it does, at times seem, that every gain we made has been being, systematically, chipped away at ever since and the country is further to the right now than ever.

[TroglodyteScholar]

57. I think if peace could make big $$$$$$$$$ for selfish people, it would be all the rage. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

62. It could. Legalize Marijuana. No one would worry about fighting anymore.

And it would be big money.

[yellowwood]

61. Change of Draft Laws

There was a huge outpouring of dissent against the war while there was a draft where anybody had to go who didn't have a deferment. (Think Dick Cheney). Then they changed the draft laws so that potential draftees got a "number." Those with high numbers lost interest in the anti-war movement when they felt safe from the draft.

[Deep13]

64. Lack of direction or concert of action. nt

[MzNov]

69. the anti-war movement itself went on for many years

the success came after certain events, like Kent State, Nixon's crap, and the nation finally realizing that it was losing thousands and thousands of young people for the war machine. Thanks to TV then, everyone saw the horrors of Vietnam, mostly after years and years of US occupation.

In spite of all the drugs and infiltrators, the anti-war crowd was actually very organized and had some infamous marches and rallies. oh boy.

[TexasObserver]

71. The anti war movement was very successful during Vietnam.

The war was largely over by the end of 1972. If you'll check our casualties after 1971, you'll find they were very small compared to the years prior.

The anti war movement killed the war. The TV coverage of the war wasn't fake, either, as it is now. It was real. The anti war movement and the TV coverage ended the war.

[Bucky]

72. We keep saying today's antiwar message is a fail. But BushCo *did* scrap plans for Iran & Yemen

In the heady days of the neocon ascension, there was lots of loose chatter about regime change in Iran, Syria, Somalia, South Yemen... But for some reason Bush & Associates never managed to muster the political support to undertake a single one of these targets. It may not have made the headlines, but the antiwar movement was very much a part of that calculus. Denouncing the Iraq folly from the left and from the streets made it impossible for them to carry out their nihilistic schemes.

[mmonk]

74. Two major things were a draft and a free press.

[readmoreoften]

75. Because the only thing that stops anything is a strike from the parties doing the work itself.

While the anti-war movement wasn't successful on its own, it emboldened troops to resist and it's troop resistance that ends wars (Sir No Sir, is a fine example). Demonstrating on it own has no political power, because voting has little effect; however, what demonstrating does is it emboldens others who can change things to make a stand. The army can't function with AWOL troops protesting and accepting arrest. Workplaces can't run when workers strike.

In my view, everything we can stop or start comes from two things: (1) solidarity and (2) striking and genuine (emotional/material) support for strikes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. I don't understand why you say it was unsuccessful

We ended the war and brought our troops home, which was the goal.

[quaker bill]

78. It became successful

when they started shooting protestors. At that point, the parents of the protestors and the media turned against the war. Once that happened, the war began to end.

[era veteran]

79. 1971 March on Washington

Nixxxon could look out his window and see me & 500,000 people in the street. This after My Lai, Kent State, & Jackson State had further eroded public support. The movement worked.

[sendero]

80. The people running this zoo.

... don't give a rat's ass what the hoi polloi think or want.

There can be no more ample demonstration of that than the continuation of the pointless wars in the Middle East, or the banker bailout that congress received phone calls TEN TO ONE against.

They do what they want. Our democracy is a complete and total fiction.