Amanda Knox Guilty?

[grassfed]

Amanda’s parents hired a PR firm that used all of its resources influencing American news sources. The PR firm packaged and presented the “whole” story to American news sources while the other side was oblivious to foreign opinion.

Trial details not heard on CNN, etc.:
http://missrepresented.net/blog

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I don't know, and I don't care.

That said, I'll trust Italian juries over American message boards or American PR firms.

[WilliamPitt]

2. I make in my pants sometimes.

[devilgrrl]

3. Don't know but she sure does act inappropriately when people get their throats slashed.

Check it out! My English roommate was found in a pool of blood - let's do cartwheels!!!!!

:eyes:

[pnwmom]

5. She was doing Yoga stretching exercises during a break in 51 hours of questioning. n/t

[ErinBerin84]

12. I've also heard that the "police made her do a cartwheel"

. Both stories from the family. Which to believe?

[pnwmom]

13. Who cares? She left no trace of DNA in a blood covered crime scene, no fingerprints

and no footprints. She and her BF must have somehow managed to wipe clean their trail while magically leaving only evidence of Guede.

And please don't tell me about the bra clasp. It had the DNA of three other unknown individuals, none of whom the police is looking for -- since they obviously know the DNA came from contamination of the evidence.

[ErinBerin84]

15. exactly.

That's why I have said that the media coverage should focus less on what the family is saying/what Friends of Amanda is saying, because they have been changing their story about little details that don't even matter. Even if Amanda did do cartwheels after her roomate was murdered, so what? It doesn't make her a murderer. But they attempt to explain away every little detail, often with contradictory results, that it doesn't really help them in the public eye. I thought that this thread was about the media coverage? In terms of DNA, there still wasn't an explanation for the mixed blood that appeared in the toilet (and two other mixed blood spots with Amanda's and Meredith's blood), that Amanda said was not there the day before. Personally, I think that blood could easily get mixed because the girls share a bathroom, but I find it off that it largely isn't mentioned at all in American media coverage, since it is so easy to debunk.

[snagglepuss]

19. I suggest you read the link not just about the evidence but also about

the paid PR firm that created FOA.

[pnwmom]

28. The family is having to fight the misinformation in the tabloids. Who can

blame them for paying someone to do so, if the parents weren't techies skilled at setting up websites ?

[pnwmom]

27. Yes, there is a clear explanation for the mixed DNA, and it is also given

at the FOA site, which you don't seem to have read.

There was NO TEST PERFORMED to show it was Amanda's blood plus Meredith's blood. There WAS evidence of both girl's DNA, but it was probably only Meredith's blood*, mixed in with some of Amanda's DNA from something other than blood.

Without a test, it is impossible to tell if the stain contained blood from both girls, or just the blood from Meredith contaminated with a smaller amount of DNA from Amanda.

*(Since Amanda left no blood or DNA at the crime scene. Why would she start bleeding in the bathroom, unless she had her period of course?)

[snagglepuss]

18. If you read the link, you might not be so sure of her innocence.

[pnwmom]

29. What link? I've read many, and not one can explain

how after this drug-crazed murder frenzy, these two inexperienced murderers managed to erase every trace of their presence in the blood splattered room, while leaving every fingerprint, footprint, and DNA trace of Guede's?

But maybe you know the answer to that.

[old mark]

25. This is what has me convinced she is innocent - it's really impossible to

go through that type of violence and leave no trace of yourself in the room. For 2 people to do this and still be "invisible" so far as trace evidence defies belief, makeds me suspect the police/judicial system.

We have some infamous cases in the US where the DA and police made the facts fit their theories, and I'm thinkin gthis is similar.

mark

[pnwmom]

30. Right -- and not only did those two somehow erase every trace of their presence

but they did it while carefully LEAVING BEHIND loads of evidence pointing to Guede.

That would be a truly miraculous feat, and one I can't put any degree of faith in.

[grassfed]

26. 2 receipts for bleach bought the morning after the murder

[pnwmom]

31. This was only a tabloid claim that was NOT introduced into evidence.

So not every lie managed to make it into the courtroom, though that wouldn't keep the un-sequestered jury from being influenced by it, just as you were.

But just for a laugh, tell me how they could have erased all traces of their DNA from the crime scene -- with bleach -- and left only Guede's. Did they have a special little DNA-readometer with them?

[old mark]

36. ...a DNA readometer available only in Italy, but not to the police...nt

[WI_DEM]

4. Who knows for sure?

[JuniperLea]

6. The Italian court system is a hell of a lot older than ours...

I think they have quite a bit of experience.

I don't trust anyone who goes out of their way to influence American news sources when death and destruction are involved.

Edited to say, trials aren't supposed to be held in the public news arena.

[pnwmom]

14. Yes, and they have more experience with fascism, too. n/t

[JuniperLea]

20. 23 years worth... a drop in the bucket...

They have one of the best healthcare systems, they respect and care for their elderly, and the court system is based on Roman law... but fully post-WWII.

Can you come up with something that's a legitimate complaint, rather than a twisting of history?

[pnwmom]

32. Three specific complaints: they allowed the prosecutor to show a

made up animated computer video showing pretend-defendants carrying out the pretend-crime-scenario, mixed in with real photos of the victim.

They didn't sequester the jury, so the jury was able to be influenced by claims about "evidence" that the higher courts had properly excluded.

They allowed the prosecutor to tell the jury that, if they found the defendants to be not guilty, then they would be going against the considered judgment of the 19 experienced judges and magistrates who had already decided on their guilt by letting the case come to trial.

If that last point doesn't appall you, then nothing will.

[JuniperLea]

37. Got link?

Seems to me these were the talking points fed to the American news...

[pnwmom]

38. You are wrong. I assume you don't need a link to the fact that the jury

was not sequestered. Here's the rest:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/07/knox.trial.analysis/

Based on witness testimony, cell phone and computer records and forensic evidence, the video -- which prosecutors showed separately to several CNN journalists and a New York Times reporter while the jury was deliberating Friday -- may have made a powerful impression on the jury. It looks like a video game, with lifelike 3-D buxom women and muscled men striding through the streets of the medieval town.
But the prosecution does not appear to have solid evidence placing either Knox or Sollecito at the scene of the crime. Both switched off their cell phones around 8:30 on the night Kercher was killed, and Sollecito's computer was not in use at the time of the killing.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412538_knox21.html

The jury retreated twice to deliberate on how to handle a controversial prosecution request to show an animated film re-enactment of the crime, which Dalla Vedova opposed, arguing it was sensationalist and would unduly influence the jury. Lawyers made references to another high-profile Italian murder case involving a young female victim currently under way in the nearby city of Garlasco, where a similar multi-media presentation was shown. The animated production, which the jury allowed to be shown, included three-dimensional avatars fashioned to look like the suspects as they walked to apartment and eventually confronted Kercher. During the depiction of escalating violence, there were fictionalized images of the partially clothed or nude victim, layered with actual images from the crime scene and real photos of wounds on Kercher's face and neck, taken during the autopsy, as well as blood-splatter analysis. The re-enactment also showed the staging of the crime scene, with Knox and Sollecito's avatars returning to the scene, taking off their shoes, bringing a lamp from Knox's room into Kercher's room, undressing Kercher to make it look like she had been raped, putting a blanket over the body and cleaning up some of the apartment with a mop. The courtroom, packed with dozens of journalists, members of the public and other observers, was eerily silent as Comodi narrated and clicked through the disturbing presentation, which ended with the audio recording of Sollecito calling the Caribinieri to report a break-in and blood in the house.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1945845,00.html

Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, in rebuttal arguments, reminded the judges and jurors that if they decided to acquit the two students, they would be reversing opinions by more than 10 preliminary judges and magistrates who had accepted his theory during the investigation.

[polly7]

22. Well of course all other justice systems must be fascist, or

corrupt, or whatever other label you want to give them.

[JI7]

23. Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, death penalty, still happening in the US TODAY

[pnwmom]

33. Yes, and a rogue prosecutor here tried to railroad the Duke lacrosse students.

That doesn't mean Amanda Knox got a fair trial in Italy. (Or that the Duke students would have, if the case had been allowed to proceed.)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. I care? nt

[MNDemNY]

8. She was convicted.

So in the eyes of the law, yes. There is an appeal process.

[hlthe2b]

9. I may be the only one without an opinion...

Having not followed the case closely (or hardly at all, being only superficially aware of who Amanda Knox is).... I guess that is the advantage of having walked away so many years ago from cable. I can be selective about the details of these "explosive" cases to try to absorb....:shrug:

I do have to express amazement at the hardened attitudes on both sides, here on DU...

[CTyankee]

10. Is yet another blog writer looking for her book?

I have to wonder...

[damntexdem]

11. Who know? I wasn't on the jury.

At least there's no death penalty in Italy, so if it turns out that there's future evidence of innocence, at least those convicted will not have been executed. Much better situation than here in Texas.

[question everything]

16. The process by which she was found guilty is questionable

Her DNA was not found at the scene, while others' was (meaning the area was not scrubbed).

Two judges were in the jury and influenced their decision.

And some other items that, at least in this country, would have found her not guilty. At least, not without doubt.

[pnwmom]

34. Right. Even in Italy, the standard is "reasonable doubt."

And how can anyone believe that, after this supposedly drug-induced murder frenzy, Amanda and her boyfriend left no traces of their DNA, fingerprints, or footprints at the crime scene?

(The bra clasp wasn't collected till 46 days later from the floor and was contaminated; besides some of the BF's DNA, it contained the DNA of three other unknown individuals -- most likely the result of contamination in the lab.)

[snagglepuss]

17. Very interesting. A must read for people who are wondering if Knox is

innocent. A very long read but definitely worthwhile.

[maxsolomon]

21. What would you do in their stead?

Not try to generate public outcry over your innocent daughter's plight? Just sit back and wait for the "older" (therefore superior?) Italian courts to render justice, and then write her off when she gets fucked over?

They're a million dollars in debt trying to defend her (so far).

The PR firm proves nothing. WHAT IS THE MOTIVE?

[TorchTheWitch]

24. There doesn't need to be a motive

Motive has never been a necessary component in finding someone guilty or not guilty of a crime nor should it be. Plenty of people have killed total strangers for no other reason than they felt like it.

[pnwmom]

35. And those people are psychopaths with a long history of anti-social behavior.

Amanda was a typical hardworking student and her boyfriend was studying medicine. The worst thing either of them have been shown to do was smoke some hash.