Pelosi Backs Off Public Option

[Techn0Girl]

Source: Huffington Post

The public health insurance option died on Thursday, December 10, 2009, after a months-long struggle with Senate parliamentary procedure. The time of death was recorded as 11:12 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.

Its death had been rumored numerous times over the past year, but the public option repeatedly and defiantly battled back. The Senate's insistence on 60 votes, combined with President Obama's decision not to intervene on its behalf, eventually proved overwhelming.

The public option leaves behind a Medicare buy-in for people aged 55-64, an expansion of Medicaid, a quasi-public option for those under 300 percent of the poverty line and a collection of national private plans managed by the Office of Personnel Management.

...

She (ed: Pelosi) had often said in the past that a health care bill without a public option simply wouldn't have the votes to pass the House. She was asked about that claim Thursday, in relation to the Senate compromise, and pointedly told reporters that any bill could pass as long as it met certain broad goals.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/10/pelosi-backs-off-public-o_n_387197.html

---

Rest in Peace Public Option - along with my hopes for change.

[atreides1]

1. It was only a matter of time

Before she got her copy of the memo!!!

[bvar22]

144. All according to the script.

The "thin sliver" Public Option was always just a shiny object used to distract the peasants while a $TRILLION Dollars of PUBLIC money was handed over to the Health Insurance Cartels (the incestuous 1st Cousin of Wall Street).

ALL according to the plan....Kabuki Theater.
Must keep up the illusion that the peasants still have a voice in government.
We don't.

[ProudDad]

148. Too true, too true (n/t)

[Goldstein1984]

152. But there are a lot of peasants

From Shelley's "The Mask of Anarchy" (and quoted in Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States")"

Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth, like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you--
Ye are many; they are few!

Worth reading in its very long entirety.

I tell ya, bvar22, just between you and me--one peasant to another--everybody else look away, please--I'm getting a little pissed off about the whole lack of a voice thing.

[LibDemAlways]

162. The peasants won't have a seat at the table until they rise up

en masse and start acting like those lions. And in this country they are so cowed and so accepting of crumbs (and lately they're not even getting those) that a revolution isn't happening any time soon.

I truly wonder what it will take.

[Raine]

153. TOTALLY on point

that's EXACTLY it, just following the plan. x(

[polichick]

2. So sad - it didn't have to be this way. nt

[emulatorloo]

3. Republicans have successfully made the phrase "Public Option" toxic, If they come up with something

better that isn't called "The Public Option" that would be ok. I don't see much point in being married to a "brand name."

[No Elephants]

10. Dr. Dean nailed it long ago: Medicare for all.

[midnight]

56. Let's just have Medicare for all....

[tinrobot]

59. Looks like we'll have Medicare for more...

[Better Believe It]

93. It appears it will be very restrictive and expensive and not really Medicare at all

[ChiciB1]

158. Just A Few A Minutes Ago, Peter Slen With C-Span Was Talking With

a journalist with CQ (Congressional Quarterly) and he was saying the current plan being considered by the Senators will be very expensive, WITH the Medicare Plan they are PUSHING!

This IS NOT HEALTH CARE REFORM, and anyone saying it is I will simply this to them... YOU'RE INSULTING my intelligence!

All this TIME, all the mark-ups, all the speeches, all the BEATING around the bush without providing REAL information, back door meetings, Repukes, THE PARTY OF NO... ALL THIS CRAP is intended to SCREW the citizens of America! They are in fact ONLY going to pass SOMETHING and call it HCR, just so they can CROW that they DID IT!

I say BEWARE of WHAT YOU WISH for! What you're wishing for IS NOT what they arr going to allow happen! This looks like it's going to cost the citizens a LOT of money to opt into! I'm sure many will again say, It's Not Final, well I say... IT'S TIME TO STOP SCREWING AROUND!

There is even more bad news regarding the NEW Stimulus for Small Business, seems they'll be exempting some from having to abide by some of the rules they are formulating, as per C-span this AM too! Details were sketchy, but maybe we will hear more in the coming days about what's intended. OR NOT!

I'm just so DISGUSTED! Yes, they are few and we are many, but the MANY are still very APATHETIC, but many of simply NOT INFORMED! IMO, the only thing we have left is to RISE UP in Protest, but that's a daunting prospect, but other smaller less affluent countries have at least made attempts in the recent path, but here in THIS GREATEST country, we sit on our BUTTS!

It's early, forgive my rant, but I'm too too worried and upset about ALL that is transpiring!

[defendandprotect]

142. We need some MEDICARE FOR ALL buttons .. . !!!

That's one major advantage of the internet --

while we were thinking voters in America were crazy, we now realize we all pretty

much think the same -- large majority liberal/progressive--!!!

Buttons might help us spread the message?

[kenfrequed]

40. And

Rather than fighting about the term and getting people all excited about it we let the republicans just tar everything they can. That is a loser strategy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

70. What's the matter with an elite option? For the 'movers and shakers' who

have proved so historically, mounumentally, epically incompetent in their handling of the economy.

I'm not even sure it's quite registered in their little noddles that Milton Friedman was a psychotic cretin, who got it precisely wrong, not approximately, but precisely. And that a whole new chapter of socio-economic competence is required to remedy the psychosis - one which demands an absolute inversion of priorities in the distribution of the country's wealth. That is certianly the case in the UK.

Belatedly, George Brown seems to have a caught a glimmer of this recondite truth, but his foes are squealing like stuck pigs, because he's finessing them. How can one finesse knuckle-draggers. 'He's giving them a good caning' would be a rather more plausible way of expressing it.

[Don Draper]

4. I'm so disappointed with the Democrats (as usual)

The Democrats are fucked in 2010 and it is their own damn fault. If they would have stuck to a progressive agenda they would have won in a landslide. Instead, they fucked the base over.

I really wish we had a true viable progressive party in the U.S.

Europe & Canada look better places to live all the time.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. Have to agree

I think we've passed the point of no return in many ways.

I don't think America can save itself any longer.

Obama was our last chance and he's no chance at all.

[Don Draper]

13. Well said

The system is just so broken and regardless of the huge ice burg in front of us, no one will change course. I guess we can either jump ship or brace ourselves for the impact.

My wife and I have been talking about moving to Canada after I finish grad school. It keeps looking better all the time.

[Fire1sKid]

119. This place is gonna be so corporate soon this will be our country logo

[zipplewrath]

7. You mean again

There were progressives at one time. Look at the history of Roosevelt.

[No Elephants]

8. Not only the base. Everyone.. The economy desperately needs cost effective massive

reform. This patchwork they are trying to cobble together is going to be very costly and not very effective.

[taurus145]

36. So give up the good fight and move

You'll feel better and make room in the ring for those of us willing to continue the battle.

I've no time for quitters.

[liberation]

50. Damn right! When the going gets tough, the keyboard brigade gets going...

... or is it typing.

LOL

[Lorien]

113. What do you think you'll accomplish? nt

[liberation]

124. Help raise awareness for sarcasm?

[Plucketeer]

52. Yeah, but what hurts .......

...is that it was we that got the quitters elected! Having been tortured at the hands of those we promoted to wardens can take the wind out of anyone's sails.

[IndianaGreen]

94. Democratic politicians can't serve two masters: the corporations and the people

Jesus is quoted as having said that “no man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.”

Democratic politicians, when given a choice, have chosen the corporations that fill their campaign coffers and grant them perks, over the American people.

Ultimately, it is our fault that we remain as the abused spouses of the political elites.

[Forkboy]

98. Between this and your locked thread you really need to get over yourself.

[Lorien]

112. Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results

is the very definition of insanity. By "continuing to battle" (WTF does that mean?) for the same corporate sellouts over and over you are, at best, merely an extra in their giant theater production titled "so you think you've got Democracy"? It's all smoke and mirrors, and you're "fighting" for more of the same. Until we start REPLACING the pretenders with REAL representatives of the people we will continue to insanely support the Big Lie. I won't vote for anyone who betrayed us again, there's no logical reason to do so (and don't spew the "but the GOP is worse" line. We both know that they are NOT the only alternative).

[vanboggie]

71. Wish I could rec your comment

But then I've always respected truth.

[AllyCat]

82. Lets make one! This could be the catalyst. I'm fed up with the lot of them.

We aren't the only ones. Convince a lot of the indies and cons that they are being played by the corporations and we are being pitted against each other and we could have a good third party!

[Iowa]

90. I agree...

Today's Democratic party is yesterday's Republican party. We had a tiny ray of hope that Obama would at least begin to turn that around, but instead he went in the exact opposite direction and became a corporate whore extraordinaire. He has pretty much sealed the demise of the once great Democratic party.

When it became obvious that we had been conned by Obama, I changed my registration from Democrat to no-party, and I'll be voting third party for the duration. If enough people would refuse to vote for either corporate party, we could toss the bums out and take our country back. But so few of our fellow citizens have a clue what is going on that I'm afraid it's all over.

I have family ties here and won't be moving, but if I were young... I don't blame you for leaving.

[Fire1sKid]

121. And I for one am getting the hell out of here!

[Lorien]

114. We will have to create a viable third party

the teabaggers are ready to do it, and we should to. The two party system is broken beyond repair.

[ChiciB1]

159. I've Thought Of Costa Rica A Lot... But Moving Isn't Really An Option!

I don't know about their Health Care, sure it's not great, but at least I know they don't have a MILITARY that keeps sucking the life out of their country!!

[2Design]

5. they need to back off their health coverage tooooooooo22222 n/t

[dem2go]

9. RIP

RIP Nancy P-this is craziness.

[Goldstein1984]

11. Then why bother?

The "public option" was always a compromise on the more desirable single-payer system. Without one or the other, health care reform loses most of its value. Why even bother?

I gave up on the Democratic Party years ago and have been an Independent. A Progressive Party is badly needed. The Democratic Party is about the join the Republican Party in self-destruct mode.

Evidently, things are going to get much worse before they get better. All that's needed is another Thomas Paine to rally the masses.

[Kablooie]

16. Health care reform still has tremendous value. The Insurance companies will vouch for that.

[mdavies013]

12. We need to reign in our elected officials....we need a national referendum on

congresses pay and benefits package. You want real bipartisan support for something (the American People not these clowns) I would bet it would poll in the high 90s. I am done supporting these politicians. I've stopped donating to Obama, DCCC, DSCC and DNC - they have not represented us at all. I think that dems feel like it doesn't matter what they do because we won't let the republicans back in control. I am sick of the lesser of two evils.

[harun]

85. I would like to see a national referendum stripping them of all health

insurance coverage. (congress and the pres that is)

[harun]

86. Why not make medicare buy in age drop a year every year?

Sorry posted in wrong spot.

[jsamuel]

14. that report is total BS - just another report designed to get Progressives angry at Pelosi

she said the same thing people have been saying for months:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/10/812806/-Pelosi-Cautious-on-Senate-Compromise

Well what I said was a two-part statement: The president has said, we believe, the House believes that the public option is the best way to hold the insurance companies honest, keep them honest and also to increase competition. If you have a better way, put it on the table. When we see something from the Senate, we’ll be able to make a judgment about that.

[Techn0Girl]

20. Respectfully, without the public option...

there is no competition and/or incentive for insurance companies to either lower prices - or to reform.

Insurance companies this week celebrated this Senate bill as a win

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/node/33335/print

[jsamuel]

34. I agree, which is why they won't come up with what Pelosi says they have to come up with in order

for them to drop the public option.

[dmallind]

63. Not so

The proposal still includes regulations limiting expenses to 10% of premiums. Good thing.

It still limits the ability to deny pre-existing conditions. Good thing.

It expands not only Medicare to millions of more peolpe but Medicaid to millions more poor and near-poor. Good thing.

Precedent set to expand government health care to help those who cannot find private options. Very good thing. Long term maybe even better thing than more recent PO proposals.

Great thing? Meh. Greatest thing we might have got? Nope, I agree there. It looked possible for a while but the atrategy was in fact flawed. But will we on the aggregate be better off from a healthcare POV with the bill than without it? Sure. Positive utility is by definition valuable. What could have been, even should have been, is a different question entirely.

[Techn0Girl]

78. If that proposal survives it would be a great thing....

I suspect it will be thrown under a bus as things "progress".
I wonder if they don't just include those things in he beginning in order to sucker in support.

[Plucketeer]

15. What party do I turn to???

I want solidarity and resolve, but I don't want to even THINK about belonging to the liars club that's the only one to consistantly exhibit those qualities.

I want compassion (real - not buzzword type) and fairness for all strata of society, but the party that professes to have those qualities as their focus, fizzles out like a wet firecracker EVERY FUCKING TIME we give it a chance to do something!

In what's probably the last quarter of my life, I'll be glad when my brain can't be tormented by the frustrations of it all.

:banghead:

[Kablooie]

25. Try Phi Kappa Pi beer bust party. At least you can get stoned and forget your troubles for awhile.

[rollingrock]

42. The independent party?

I don't think its an actual party though, just a bunch of people who declare themselves as independent voters. I suggest these disaffected voters attempt to organize themselves into a formal party. then there may be some hope of ever challenging the two major parties.

[RedCloud]

69. The Orgy Party

That way when we get screwed, at least we see it coming.

[Umbral]

87. Haven't you been paying attention?

You're supposed to keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping things will change. nt

[WriteDown]

17. Get ready for mandatory coverage or the OTHER public option...

Jail coupled with fines.

[ProudDad]

149. At least you would get...

totally substandard, haphazard but complete "health care" in jail...

Maybe that's Barack, Nancy and Harry's health care solution -- jail for the uninsured...

[closeupready]

18. Let's put it this way -

Half of her recorded worth is canceled out by her liabilities. So, this makes sense to me.

[nvme]

19. Our Public Option

Is to create a progressive Liberal party. That is the only one. Otherwise the monstrosity that is probably being created is aboondoggle for The insurance industry. Think of it, so many people forced to get PRIVATE INSURANCE are going to be hitting the market with insurance companies offering a crap scaled-down plan. No one is forcing them to compete. So they tighten their strangle-hold on the voters of this country. It will be at least 2 more administrations before anyone is going to try again.

Our dear leaders are willing to see it compromise away what should be a basic right. Perhaps we do need to break off from the corporatists.

[flyarm]

21. No surprise to me..none at all..it has been a scam from the get go!

a good cop, bad cop scam..and fleecing of the American people..corporate welfare and nothing but a give away to the insurance boys and Big Pharma..anyone who thought otherwise was only fooling themselves!

[inna]

22. Quote that rang true with me today:

My dismissive contempt for anyone who buys into the “political process” in the U.S. has drained my bile on this issue. I just can’t get worked up over it anymore. I try to huff and puff and grit my teeth, but then all that comes out is, “Forget it. Hell is dealing with true believers.”

In general, Americans represent a collective battered spouse who hopes that the batterer will change. Spitting teeth and squinting through two black eyes, they usually go back for more of the same.

This isn’t politics. It’s pathology.

http://cryptogon.com/?p=12561

[flyarm]

23. no truer words!!!!!!!!!!..thanks ..eom

[Lorien]

115. Perfectly put. nt

[ChiciB1]

161. How Very True AND How Very Sad For Us!! I Keep Banging My Head

against an imaginary wall that is hurting only me and my health! This is what it's come down to, and I don't UNDERSTAND how others support this as real reform. I know there are a "few" tiny things they are touting, but it's a piece of crap from where I'm sitting!

By the end of this process I feel more people are going to need either medication for depression or anxiety!! I know it's getting to me and it's been an insidious onset where my stomach seems to knot up more and more as I perceive how little our Representative don't really care!

[elocs]

24. Isn't it ironic that we have people here celebrating the death throes of the Republican party,

or dancing on the grave of the GOP and all the while our Democratic reps are in reality right wing pod people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U

[Pab Sungenis]

26. It died the day we allowed that abortion of a Baucus Bill out of committee.

I hope all of the Blue DUgs here who said that it would survive are happy.

[Kablooie]

27. Pelosi supports : "a major victory for the health insurance industry."

Nancy Pelosi : "If a vigorous public option is not included, it would be a major victory for the health insurance industry."

How wonderful that the new health plan will take more money from the public and put it right in the pockets of the insurance industry.

And insurance companies are free to run wild with prices as always.

I'm so happy for those rich executives. They can now become so much richer!

America the Beautiful!!!!!

I think I shall now utilize my constitutional right to use a gun.
Inside my mouth.

[percussivemadness]

28. Pelosi and her magical table....

I think this table must be amazing....

[fascisthunter]

29. lol... did anyone really believe her?

[parasearchers]

30. I will never vote democrat again, whats the point?

[Techn0Girl]

31. I voted for Clinton ... and lost my job to the H1B visas that he opened the door for with NAFTA

Republicans suck - 8 years of Bush sucked ... but Clinton's giving my I.T. industry to NAFTA sucked pretty much as well.

I voted for Obama.
Suck Suck Suck... I guess that makes me pretty much a Sucker doesn't it?
Never again.

[budkin]

44. Because things would be even worse with Republicans in charge.

[Techn0Girl]

77. I would have lost TWO jobs? How unemployed do I have to be Before it's not OK?

[andym]

32. Well she said it would have to be "real competition"

So she's going to let the CBO essentially decide.

If they have not proposed significant regulation of the insurers, then it's doubtful that they'll see competition or hold costs. Te CBO will be key-- if they report the plan is costly or does not hold down premiums, presumably she and her colleagues will reject such a plan.

[Kablooie]

33. The only "good" thing to come of this is that a new health bill will NEVER be passed.

Mark my words.

America will continue to pay higher and higher unreasonable bills while more and more die of treatable diseases.

It's the America that we American's want.

[FunMe]

35. What a surprise. Not!

I ALWAYS knew it was a "dog and pony" show.
Hope Pelosi enjoys her last 11 months as the first female Speaker of the House "leader".

No Public Option = Political Bloodbath for Democrats in 2010.

The days of "where are they going to go?" are OVAH.

[leeroysphitz]

96. Well said! n/t

[fascisthunter]

138. lol... I love that image

[cap]

37. while we are moaning, Teabaggers are getting on the buses and going to Washington

what's wrong with us? Why aren't we getting on the buses?

[budkin]

39. Because we don't have an entire propaganda network promoting the events?

[HillbillyBob]

157. Some folks like me are not able to get on a bus and go to

corporate headquarters aka the capitol. I am disabled and on a very low income. I cannot afford it and I cannot ride a bus for 2 days. I can barely pay bills(some are always overdue).

I will be changing my voters registration, which I toyed with starting several weeks after the Olection. Obama lost me on the fisa vote, but I still voted for him knowing that mcfail would sink us even worse.

Well Mr President you made things worse, not as bad as a mcfailin residency would have but still sucks shit.

[KamaAina]

58. Because we have jobs and don't live in our mothers' basements?

:shrug:

[cap]

88. we did it before ... remember "Yes, We Can"

we lost our mojo after the election and have left the stage to the Teabaggers.

[Techn0Girl]

111. I don't thinkj we lost mojo exactly...

I think our mojo has been pulled out from underneath us like a cheap rug.

There's still a lot of spirit out there. Maybe it's time we redirected it to where it realy would count?

[Norwood]

38. So much for change.

Instead I'll have to buy health insurance I probably can't afford or go to jail. This is just maddening, all of it!

This whole thing is POINTLESS without a public option! Absolutely pointless...
The presidency, the house and the senate the dems got it all and STILL can't do what the country needs done.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomClash]

41. The Public Option can't rest in peace - don't ya know there are two wars to fight!

But it can be buried next to its bigger and better brother, Single Payer.

Now we see what shiny new toys the Health Insurance Lobbyists got for the holidays - more profit and more death.

They'll let us keep the change.

[budkin]

43. This article is extremely misleading

How can the public option be completely dead when they are still negotiating and no bill has been finalized? Pelosi said she needed to read the wording of the Senate compromise specifically.

[groundloop]

53. I gotta agree with budkin

There's not a bill until both houses of congress agree on it. Plus, if Dr. Dean and Al Franken say that the senate compromise is worthy of support (while admitting that it's not perfect) I'm willing to listen. I'm not abandoning the Democratic party over this, but I'll sure the hell be sending letters and emails to let the leaders know how I feel.

[Stealth of Nations]

60. Krugman gave it an OK too

[Techn0Girl]

79. The "Dean and Krugman Liked it" Meme is a great one until ....

You realize that both those guys still have great health plans and you still don't.

Then it looses it's shiny appeal

[Stealth of Nations]

I may not

but millions of others will qualify. I'm a pretty selfish person, but im not willing to issue a possible death sentence to someone because I can't get in. Keep fighting, if you give up and accept the status quo then you've lost your right to complain

[Stealth of Nations]

107. *duplicate*

[liberation]

130. Those memes operate under the impression that we were disagreeing with previous bills

by basing our disagreement purely on the opinions, on the matter, by Krugman or Dean.


Simple: not even a mention of a roadmap towards single payer (for full enrolment of the population), then the bill is a piece of putrid blue dog sh*t.

A turd is still a turd, no matter if Krugman, or even Sanders try to polish it. I learnt my manners from my papa and my mama, not from Dean, Sanders, or Krugman...

[Stealth of Nations]

165. my rational...

...operates under the assumption that both Dean and Krugman know a whole hell of alot more than I do. And more importantly I am comfortable with that.

[liberation]

45. On the good side, now that she has sold us out...

... she can now afford that facelift she wanted for Christmas. I heard she got a deluxe package with complimentary botox.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberation]

125. Oh, damn! That's a double whammy!

Well played madame speaker, well played....

[Truth2Tell]

151. ...

[JDPriestly]

46. Kucinich for president, 2012

[dionysus]

166. !

:rofl:

[junior college]

47. I didn't like the way it was always harassing animals in the wild

Oh wait. That was Steve Irwin.

[SandWalker1984]

48. I say rather than accept a corporate giveaway, let's kill this so called reform bill!

Rather than let the corporations win, rather than let them get 30 million new victims AND government subsidies AND no competition AND no limits on what they can charge us in premiums,

it is better to kill this so called health care reform bill altogether at this time.

Don't whine to me about the bill having a few good things in it -- those can be rolled into a different reform bill altogether.

This bill, as currently written, is going to make getting affordable health insurance even less likely and does nothing to address health CARE costs.

It will also give a handful of corporations even more political and financial power to use against us in the future.


Personally, I am going to start calling every professed progressive and liberal Democrat in the House and Senate and plead with them to stand firm against this corporate insurance welfare bill. I encourage you to do the same.

[barbtries]

49. i feel very, very discouraged.

thwarted. shafted. screwed. and so on.

[Stealth of Nations]

51. silver lining

It sucks that the public option fell through, but we are expanding a existing single payer system to cover an entire decade of people. That's somewhat impressive.

[liberation]

54. Indeed, it is rather impressive to reduce the funding for medicare...

... while expanding the pool of patients, in order to pay for a reform which only benefits the health insurance industry!

But not as "impressive" as trying to spin that as being a good thing (tm). LOL!

[Stealth of Nations]

57. just like national defense, medicare can get additional funds.

i dont really see how you can view expanding Medicare as a bad thing.

[liberation]

127. I didn't say expanding medicare was a bad thing.

I said that a significantly increasing the enrollment in medicare coupled to a significant reduction in its funding, done in order to pay for the rest of the "reform" is not a good idea.


Context, as they say, is everything... ;-)

[Blue Owl]

55. Wow what a fucking surprise

Never saw that coming.

This is new territory in spinelessness -- a new low has been reached.

These hollow, empty suits ain't lookin' out for we the people.

Fuck 'em.

[tinrobot]

61. What about insurance reform? (i.e. eliminating pre-existing conditions, etc.)

All these changes have me spun around.

Are they just opening up Medicare/Medicaid, or will they still do something about corporate insurance companies and their love of pre-existing conditions, etc?

[Stealth of Nations]

66. Three things

- Medicare optional buy-in at 55
- OPM-negotiate "national" nonprofit health plan
- "Triggered" public option (if national nonprofit plan doesn't meet
certain benchmarks)

[mstinamotorcity]

62. When it came to the

Public Option it should have been Medicare for Everyone period. the public option was dead upon its arrival.The insurance company option however,was in full swing. So now we are going to get whatever the insurance companies are willing to donate. Because this congress, with a little c,is bought and paid for like an expensive hooker. There are some exceptions. But where the American people are concerned there are too many crooked politicians so the fair and honest ones get lost in the quagmire.Damn another political fight for 2010 and 2012. Will this ever end.

[mistertrickster]

65. The title is misleading. All Pelosi is really saying is that "the House has to see

the bill and the CBO reports before we can decide."

Doesn't mean the Public Option is dead.

[Techn0Girl]

81. If the public option is NOT dead ... then show me where it still exists in the Senate Bill?

I'll wait ....

[Stealth of Nations]

110. It is still in the house bill

and they both need to go to conference

[Fire1sKid]

116. But they wont go to conference

lets be honest here!

[Stealth of Nations]

167. I dont see that being the case under any circumstances

[Better Believe It]

95. Ya. Sure. Do you really believe that? Elvis Presley is alive too!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stealth of Nations]

75. then vote for who?

I wouldnt trade being stabbed in the back by my own party for being consistantly raped by the other. Lets not lose perspective here.

[FarLeftFist]

68. What did the autopsy reveal?

[kirby]

74. Raped with corporate dollars n/t

[Odin2005]

73. Goddamnit!!!

:grr:

[Jefferson23]

76. How nice to be marginalized once again.

Hooray for the health insurance industry!!!!!!!!!

I never expected single payer, but this is a flat out disgraceful bill.

[AllyCat]

80. Then just kill the whole thing. God, these stupid Congress critters are criminals!

I hope Thom Hartmann is right...that this 55 and up thing is a backdoor into single-payer. But I no longer trust any of these clowns, D or R.

[Fire1sKid]

104. What about the people under 55?

We are just fucked.We are in the process of having a bill shoved down our throats that does nothing at all to lower premiums.The people who are under 55 and cant afford private insurance are screwed if we are in the grey area above the level to qualify for Medicaid.So now we get to pay for Medicare and buy overpriced insurance at the same damn time w/ no public option.How is this possibly a backdoor into single-payer?

[penndragon69]

83. Proof that the DLCers are SPINLESS toadies.

Medicare for ALL!

[orbitalman]

84. God dammit. I swear...

there's a lack of leadership. Screw the compromise. (excuse my French)

[NICO9000]

89. So are they going to bring back debtors prisons?

Because that's what they're going to have to do when all us unemployed bastards won't be able to buy their bogus mandated insurance. At this point, I'd rather they just kill the whole deal because what they're proposing now is no reform at all. Very disappointed in Obama being so spineless about this issue as well as his escalation of the Afghan folly. Not sure if he'll get any better, but I pray he won't get any worse (and I'm an atheist!).

[GreenTea]

91. Obama never demanding a strong public option:The insurance coporations money & republican lies

along with both of their fear mongering and the bought & sold fucking moderates spineless Democrats has paid off well for the corporate rich again - The Public Option is dead.....

And just as the past 60 or 70 years, the republicans have again stopped real health care for all Americans and will keep it obscenely profitable for the insurance corporations CEO's who take 30 to 40% off the top for their profits!

The Public Option is dead.

Screw the people.

Now, the insurance companies will take even more of our tax dollars, to go along with the continued billions of dollars they already suck up from government each year (our tax dollars) for their massive profits over peoples health.

[IndianaGreen]

97. Obama was the one that referred to the public option as just a 'sliver'

Sliver to him. The whole enchilada to us!

[liberal N proud]

92. I wonder how big the check was

[katty]

99. of course she did...no surprise here

[Techn0Girl]

100. WHY WAS THIS REMOVED FROM THE "BREAKING NEWS SECTION" ?

It's certainly not because 12 hours have passed because the breaking news section has originals much longer than that in it.

It did affect the DU page rank of the article and took it off the front page as well as dropped it radically in rank from the Top 10 sections.

Does this seem odd to anyone else here?
Would a Mod like to comment - am I missing something?

[Echo In Light]

101. An article on a new mega-military prison in Afghanistan was mysteriously locked...

... about a week ago. I reposted it, asking 'why' it had been locked (padlock icon on it) yet it only had several replies, w/no one being belligerent at all.

[Fire1sKid]

103. THANK YOU!!!! EXACTLY!!!

[Techn0Girl]

105. The article went from Front Page ranking to a backwater in Gen Discussion in a matter of minutes...

Some mod changed the forum of the post at 2 pm Pacific after the article had been generating intense discussion and 50+ recs for over 7 hours in Breaking News. The Forum change also changed the Top 10 rank and page visibility.

Why would someone decide it was no longer breaking news after 7 hours? I'm trying to wrap my head around that one.

[Fire1sKid]

102. SOLD OUT AGAIN!!!!!

Im done!!Im sick of this shit!!The American people are tired of being thrown under the bus by Congress with corporate America in the driver seat.Im tired of being obviously reminded that myself along with the American people are mere peasants.Im tired of watching wall street being handed blank checks by our government from the American people and then we get thrown scraps and bullshit!!!

:cry: :grr:

[Javaman]

106. Come folks, are we really all that surprised?

given the history of our dems in the house and especially in the senate, does this really make us all guffaw in wonderment?

Pul-eeze.

they have a history of caving and this latest little display of existing without a backbone is metaphorical full on collapse of the structure. A cave in would at least mean there is a hope of digging something out.

It was a wild ride. Some crazy shit went back and forth, but the at the end of this sad day is something even more frightening.

what is that?

the ball licking tea baggers will claim victory. even if it wasn't their brand of crazy that actually did anything but failin quitter, all the bobble headed talking heads, the faux news morons will now crow from hill to hill screaming victory!!!

Chew on that.

these failures in the house and senate just gave a shot of adrenaline to the ultra right wing morons the likes of which they could had only hoped failin could had mustered in a lifetime of blathering.

Way to go dems, another case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!!!

We will now be treated to a side show of such epic proportions, that I honestly don't believe this country will be able to maintain a level is sanity.

What a bunch of worthless fucks.

[KrR]

108. DK is on board too... pending details of Medicare buy in

was just on MSNBC with tweety.

[Techn0Girl]

109. That would be an interesting development. I'll check them out...

[branders seine]

117. What a bunch of miserable, worthless scum.

My disgust knows no bounds.

[BrklynLiberal]

118. Sadly, no surprise there.

[Tailormyst]

120. I feel really betrayed

[DailyGrind51]

122. Medicare at 55 is closer to single-payer than a new public option, anyway!

Why re-invent a wheel that is already rolling, when you can just add more tread?

[Better Believe It]

128. People who receive Medicare at 65 don't pay for Part A People under 65 will pay for Medicare twice

People under 65 may have to pay monthly premiums of at least $500 month for Part A plus pay for Part B and Part D!

And we don't know if the government is going to help pay some or all of these ad-on charges for people who may have paid tens of thousands of dollars into Medicare for 35 years or more via payroll deductions!

So how can anyone claim Medicare is simply being extended to younger people at no extra cost to seniors?

That's a long ways from being a step closer to single-payer

[KrR]

129. Umm the public option was never going to be free

So why is everyone pretending like it was so much better than the Medicare expansion?

[Gregorian]

123. There is no table.

Suckers.

I should add that I'm one of the suckers.


I should also add that there is still hope. It's about cost control. And that can still be achieved. I hope.

[bigwillq]

126. Did anyone really believe we were getting a Public Option?

:shrug: I sure as heck didn't. DEMS are just as bad as the Repukes. It's not a surprise we are in such a mess. Government is broke. Congress is terrible. Obama isn't the greatest but he certainly isn't getting much help from others in DC. That's the sad state of politics right now.

[Kansas Wyatt]

134. Not when you start out saying you want, what you think you might eventually get.

He doesn't know shit about negotiating with a MANDATE. You start out with the very best you could possibly dream of getting, then you negotiate down from there to achieve REAL Health Care Reform.

But oh no, I'm not one of those Intelligent Democrats, who knows so fucking much and can play multidimensional chess. I am smart enough to figure out how NOT to get my ass kicked at checkers.

[Nikki Stone1]

131. Jesus Wept.

:cry:

[HillCountryGal]

155. Maybe...

[dysfunctional press]

132. i suppose it's too cold out to expect people to descend on dc enMASS, shut it down...

and DEMAND a single-payer system.

after all- it's only their healthcare that's at stake. :shrug:

[lib2DaBone]

133. She spends more on her hair-do's and face lifts.. than HC for Children..

She doesn't CARE ABOUT YOU... She doesn't care about anyone... why should she? She got her's via a pen stroke in CONgress... you think she ever mopped a floor or cleaned a toilet?

[Kansas Wyatt]

135. But but but what happened to 'getting a foot in the door?'

You mean the Pom Pom Squad was wrong and they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, when they said the Democrats were setting it up to be there someday, but we would have to wait a little longer?

Hey Pom Pom Squad... I told you they were going to GUT anything beneficial for the American People, hand the Insurance Industry a great big GIVEAWAY, and they were going to ORDER the American People to buy overpriced and worthless insurance scams from Death Merchants.

[1badjedi]

136. They do this because

they know americans won't do a damn thing about it. If they get voted out they don't care because they have their cushy well financed lives to return to. Meanwhile they are secure knowing the rest of us will continue to get fucked, roll over and ask for more.

The fun never stops.

[pleah]

137. Same as it ever was.......

[winyanstaz]

139. Do we need any more proof that the Congress has sold out.?....

This is so depressing.

[Techn0Girl]

141. Howard Dean DOES NOT Support this bill ....

Tonight on The Rachael Maddow Show Howard Dean just said "This bill as it stands now, without a public option, is just a big give-away for the insurance companies".

Howard dean DOES NOT support this bill as it now stands. He referred to the Jane Hamsher editorial and indicated that if things were not changed "all the things Jane said are going to happen".

I'm writing it as I'm watching it. His exact words .
So much for that Bluedog meme.

[Nikki Stone1]

145. Why are we blaming Pelosi for Reid's duplicity?

He had her backed into a corner.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

160. Why is no one mentioning the direct involvement of the White House in this fiasco?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32087532/ns/politics-white_house/

After lawsuit, Obama opens a bit of info on meetings with health care executives
White House still contends it can keep visitor logs secret
By Bill Dedman
Investigative reporter
msnbc.com
updated 11:50 p.m. ET, Wed., July 22, 2009

skip

An hour before the president's news conference on health care, the White House sent CREW the following list of visits by health care executives:

Bill Tauzin visited the White House on March 5, May 19, June 2, and June 24. He is president and CEO, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.
Karen Ignagni visited the White House on March 5, 6, and 11 and June 30. She is president and CEO, America's Health Insurance Plans.
Richard Umbdenstock visited the White House on February 4, February 23; March 5, March 25, March 30; April 6, and May 22. He is president and CEO, American Hospital Association.
J. James Rohack visited the White House on March 25, June 22, and June 24. The cardiologist from Texas is president of the American Medical Association.
William C. Weldon visited the White House on May 12. He is chairman and CEO, Johnson & Johnson.
Jeffrey B. Kindler visited the White House on March 5, May 6, and June 2. He is chairman and CEO, Pfizer.
Stephen J. Hemsley visited the White House on May 15 and 22. He is president and CEO, UnitedHealth Group.
Angela F. Braly visited the White House on February 13. She is president and CEO, WellPoint.
George Halvorson visited the White House on March 27 and June 5. He is president and CEO, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan.
Jay Gellert visited the White House on February 10, March 11, and March 20. He is president and CEO, Health Net.
Thomas Priselac visited the White House on April 3. He is president and CEO, Cedars-Sinai Health System.
Richard Clark visited the White House on March 24. He is chairman, president and CEO, Merck.
Wayne T. Smith visited the White House on June 4. He is chairman, president and CEO, Community Health Systems.
Rick Smith visited the White House on May 19 and June 2. He is senior vice president, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.
"In addition to the above information, the White House visitor records reflect that Mr. Tauzin, Ms. Ignagni, Mr. Umbdenstock, Mr. Rohack, Mr. Kindler, Mr. Halvorson, Mr. Gellert, Mr. Priselac, David Nexon, and Rick Smith were scheduled to attend a May 11 meeting at the White House. We understand that all the individuals attended the meeting except Mr. Kindler, and that Mr. Clark attended as well."

*****************************************************************************************************************************
The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time. Our new "transparent" "no lobbyist" government has been wall-to-wall lobbyists from the get-go and they fought tooth and nail to keep it undercover. The whole article I posted above is well worth reading to refresh yourself about how some of this has transpired.

[Nikki Stone1]

163. Oh My God.

:grr:

[HuckleB]

146. Pelosi and company are failing us, at the moment.

But there is no final deal, and a public option is not dead.

[EvilMonk]

147. Saw it coming...

*grin*

[PretzelzRule]

150. Capitulation you can believe in

Grrr

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Raine]

154. BIG surprise

:wow: ... NOT! x( :mad:

[HillbillyBob]

156. pitchforks and torches

The godam dimicrats (and I am registered as one, but not sure for how long) are bigger fucking hypocrites than the f ing rpigs.

Its time to toss all the sombitches out.

[Not Sure]

164. Shocking

I really bought into Pelosi's leadership and took her word to be as good as gold.

:sarcasm: <-- is this really necessary?