Kucinich calls $400 a month per person, progress he can support

[sandnsea]

That's how much he said Medicare is estimated to cost, although I've never seen that low of an estimate. Anyway, he was just going on and on about how terrific this would be for people. Does he not understand this would mean $800 a month for couples? Who can pay for that out of pocket?

Ideology is replacing common sense and we're all going to be in serious trouble because of it.

[bluestateguy]

1. He voted NO last time

If we could get his vote back, that would be an accomplishment.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. Where did you think the money for medicare for all would be coming from? n/t

[KrR]

10. The same place the money from the PO would be coming...

slow on the uptake?

[sandnsea]

20. The Public Option would include younger, healthier people

That would help moderate the costs across a variety of people. Medicare for 55 and over would be completely different, consequently unaffordable as this figure from Kucinich shows. I can't believe he thinks this is a good idea.

[KrR]

36. The goal is to get more people onto govt plans, right?

Of course 55+ will cost more, but its run more effeciently compared to private insurance. So the total cost of Health care will drop.
And once this in place... the amount of funding for subsidies should be much easier to increase later.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. No, the total cost of health care (in this case the Medicare program) will not drop.

The per capita costs might drop, but the overall cost will inevitably be larger.

[KrR]

67. The cost to all of us... for all healthcare should drop... that is the point of insuring everyone

You are not thinking of all the uninsured that are admitted via emergency room and hospital writes it off and we all share the cost.

[sandnsea]

17. I've been saying this all along

I just heard Dennis Kucinich say it so I think it has a little more clout than I have.

[itsrobert]

3. So I'm going from $460 a year for a family to $1600 a month?

Screw That!

[sandnsea]

16. This is for Medicare For 55 and over n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Holy shit!

Add 400... carry the three... subtract the remainder... hit cosine...

That's, like, $1200 a month for menage a troises!

[stray cat]

48. you have three kids over 55?

[Fumesucker]

5. 300,000,000 people times $400/month times 12 months per year

$1 440 000 000 000.00

The GDP of the USA is $14.2 trillion..

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&q=what+is+the+gdp+of+the+usa

So approximately ten percent of the GDP would be spent in insurance premiums.

It looks like health care is actually about 15% of GDP right now..

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/runaway-health-care-costs-were-1/

Edited because typing with a dog on the lap and another on the chest is a PITA.. :)

[notesdev]

11. Math looks right

Should be a real eye-opener for a lot of people, how much money is actually spent.

The vast majority of people don't consume anywhere near $4800 worth of health care per year.

Maybe seeing these numbers will spur people to take a more realistic approach to how much the country really needs to spend vs. how much it is spending.

If this makes people stand up and pay attention to the gouging that goes on with the anything-goes end-of-life care (something like 50% of all expenses go to people who are terminal to begin with), I'm all for opening that debate.

[Fumesucker]

15. Obviously some hard choices have to be made..

I was aware that a large portion of medical expenses are in end-of-life situations, I didn't realize it was as high as half though.. :wow:

[rucky]

12. Do kids count?

If not, it's even less.

[Fumesucker]

Count in what way?

For premiums, I have no idea..

Which is why it's hard to have this conversation without knowing more about the conditions.

[sandnsea]

21. This is a Medicare premium only

As stated above, it's naturally going to be higher due to the health of those enrolled.

[dysfunctional press]

68. if all 300million were in the risk pool, it would be much cheaper per person.

nt

[Cleita]

6. If it works like traditional Medicare then it would be a percentage of your

income or paycheck. I think if we make those, who earn more than two million a year, pay a larger part of the tax bill for over that two million, like he was talking about, it would work. Also, $800 a month for a couple is less than what many are paying now with high deductibles. Medicare's deductible is $100 per year or $200 for a couple. There's a lot to hammer out so that it doesn't become another candy store for the insurance companies, like I'm definitely against anything that gets turned over to them like the Medicare Advantage programs that are no better than our present HMO style insurance. I hope that this is written in the bill. No Medicare Advantage programs allowed.

[sandnsea]

23. They already said it won't

No subsidy, none, zero, zip. Full premium only.

[superduperfarleft]

38. Now I know you're full of shit.

Turn your hearing aid up before you start dictating to DU what you supposedly heard on TV.

[sandnsea]

44. Link? n/t

[superduperfarleft]

52. Here.

www.twitter.com

[Fumesucker]

30. Dupe, self delete..

[Fumesucker]

31. Just running some "back of the envelope" calculations..

It seems like the figure is in the ballpark, especially considering that the Medicare crowd is likely to be higher than average consumers of health care.

[sandnsea]

35. Yes, the lowest I've ever heard

Most figures I've seen quoted are around $600 a month per person. Exactly because these are the highest consumers of health care and those over 55 as well. This is what this program is going to cost individuals and people better get a clue.

[Fumesucker]

41. $600 is a reasonable house payment in my area..

Or it was back when I had a house. :(

[stray cat]

45. Renting around here its 1300 for a one BR 700 sq foot place

[Fumesucker]

54. It costs more to rent an apartment here than a lot of house payments are..

And as I pointed out in another post, costs vary wildly from are to area.

In Detroit you can buy a house for ten grand or even less.

[sandnsea]

47. You can't get a house for that here

Which is why people sure as hell can't pay that for an insurance premium.

[Fumesucker]

49. Costs vary a lot around the country..

As do average incomes..

[sandnsea]

51. Yep. But none can afford $400 individual premiums n/t

[Fumesucker]

55. A lot of people are already paying that or more..

My brother owns a small business and had to drop his catastrophic insurance when his income fell by two thirds and his premium went over $800 a month for two people.

[stray cat]

42. True - people promote single payer as if they don't have to pay

Someone has to pay for any goods or services and some people don't have a clue that health care costs real money.

[undeterred]

7. That's too much.

[stray cat]

46. Why? What would you pay on the open market if you didn't get it through work?

[undeterred]

60. Depends what you get for it.

The last time I had health insurance I was paying cobra around $350/month for dental and medical. There were still copays and a deductible but all preventive care was covered 100%.

I see no point in paying $400 if there are still large copays because then I would have insurance but wouldn't be able to afford prescriptions. Right now I get prescriptions but no insurance.

[zorahopkins]

8. $400? Per Person? Per Month?!

I pay far less than $400 per month for my health insurance now.

$400 is a LOT of money for ONE PERSON to have to pay for Health Insurance.

This is NUTS!

[drm604]

25. I pay close to $600.

I'd like $400 a month.

[ellie]

32. I pay much

less than this, too.

[Daphne08]

69. I agree.

Congress doesn't have a clue if they believe people can pay that much.

[RoyGBiv]

9. This issues was rasied yesterday ...

One of those economists (Klein I think, but he could have been quoting someone else) specifically addressed this aspect of it but didn't have any solid conclusions about what *would* happen, rather what would be necessary to happen for this to make sense.

The question seems to be whether subsidies will be available for the Medicare premiums in the same way they would have been available for a so-called public option. I haven't been able to do much reading today, so perhaps this has been revealed since then. However, as of yesterday, no one really knew one way or the other how this would be handled.

[mzmolly]

13. Prior to subsidies?

:shrug:

[sandnsea]

14. No subsidies for Medicare For 55 n/t

[KrR]

34. I dont think that is true...

Not for everyone anyway... I think some will be subsidized depending on income... and Medicare would be one of the options on the exchange.

[sandnsea]

40. I haven't heard that

But I hope so because people will not be able to afford this.

[mzmolly]

66. I've heard that up to 400 percent of poverty level will be subsidized. Here is more info...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/19/us/politics/1119-plan-comparison.html#tab=4

[superduperfarleft]

18. Do you ever post links to anything?

Just curious, you know, before we end up with a 100+ post thread about nothing.

[sandnsea]

24. He was just on television. Can't link to television.

Besides, I don't post bullshit.

[superduperfarleft]

28. Gee, well that's good enough for me.

:eyes:

If it wasn't for that horse, I never would've finished college!

[sandnsea]

33. See #27

So everybody else on DU can post a story from television - but I can't????

College? Seriously?? Always stuns me when such stupidity comes from college graduates. Keep that to yourself so you stop giving education a bad name.

[superduperfarleft]

37. Sure, someone can post a story based on something they saw on TV.

But you know what helps? Not being intentionally as cryptic as possible. This is as substantial an OP as "CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW." Pay $400 for Medicare? To whom? We write a check to the government every month? In the form of payroll taxes? What about dependents?

See what I'm saying? We've got people all over this thread going "ZOMG I CAN'T AFFORD THAT!!!11" when your OP gives the absolute least about of information you could mange.

My point is that DU is not your personal twitter account, so maybe you should've included a bit more information if you were actually attempting to have a discussion by starting an OP.

I'll just leave the college comment alone. Obviously yours gave you an A in Being Obtuse 101.

[sandnsea]

43. Let me see, hmmm,

fuck you.

[superduperfarleft]

53. LOL. n/t

[L0oniX]

29. +1

[Thickasabrick]

19. I pay $400+ a month for single.....no big diff for me. nt

[L0oniX]

22. link?

[sandnsea]

26. Television. No link. Sorry. n/t

[KrR]

27. He was on Tweety... no link.

[stray cat]

39. Most without good insurance from work would be thrilled at $400/month!

[sandnsea]

50. Who?

Anybody who can afford a $400 premium for one person, already has the kind of job that provides an insurance benefit anyway. The people who don't have coverage are not going to be able to afford that, none of them.

[NNN0LHI]

56. Well DK under the fucking bus you go

Vrrrrrooooooooooooooom!

[sandnsea]

62. It's all about the subsidies

Everybody keeps getting lost in the minutia of all the different plan ideas without recognizing that ALL of them will be too expensive without subsidies. Even Dennis. We've got to get the conversation around to the subsidies.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

57. I wouldn't pay $400/mo for an entire family... much less per person.

I'd be willing to pay ~$150 for a family of 4 per month.

[sandnsea]

63. We've got to start talking about the subsidy

It just drives me crazy how flippantly they throw these numbers around. A lot of people are clearly out of touch with how the $15 hr and under class lives.

[Uben]

58. $800/couple per month? You betcha!

I pay twice that now for a $5000 deductible and 50% of the next $10,000. That would be absofuckinlutely wondiferous!

[bluestateguy]

59. $400 a month for health care that cannot be taken away(Medicare) and no insurance company bullshit

Seems like a good deal to me.

[sandnsea]

64. Sounds like homelessness to me n/t

[NRaleighLiberal]

61. I retired from big Pharma and have what I consider a good plan -

coverage for my wife and I for medical (through United Health Care) and preventative Dental (through Aetna) (no more coverage for fillings, crowns, etc) is 320.00 per month - total - for the two of us. So that is my particular benchmark.