We Live In Interesting Times When Much Of DU Agrees With John Thune On HCR

[WeDidIt]

Just hear Thune say we should kill the current bill and start over.

Thune is also an early dark horse for the GOP presidential nomination in 2012.

That tells me a lot.

[jaxx]

1. If they kill it there will be no starting over.

That's their plan. Shove it through and add to it.

[derby378]

5. Congress will have no choice BUT to start over

The people are demanding health insurance reform, but what the Senate is debating is anything but. That's because the insurance companies and their teabagger lackeys have forced the Senate into debating how much the average American worker can be screwed over, not how much his health insurance can be improved.

[Warpy]

9. If they kill it, they'll be out of power

and Thune knows that. He's hoping for a repeat of the 1994 election and for the same reason, Democratic lack of will on health insurance reform.

It's time for Reid to go nuclear and rob the Blue Dogs of their power to rob the people of this country of meaningful health insurance reform and their own party of any ability to raise the issue in the future.

That's what's at stake.

[Andy823]

12. I agree.

Reid can get a good bill through without cutting everything that "needs" to be in the bill, but that insurance companies, and members of congress who are bought and paid for by those companies, don't want in the bill! Since it's obvious that no republicans are going to vote for "any" bill, and that the democrats that are in the pockets of the insurance companies are demanding that any worthwhile reforms be taken out of the bill, I agree that Reid needs to go nuclear, and pass a GOOD bill and to hell with those who want to water it down, or kill in completely! I mean what has he got to lose? If Reid can't get thing done, I say get rid of him and get someone in charge who CAN get things done!

[derby378]

15. Democrats lost power in 1994 because of gun control, not health insurance reform

Even Bill Clinton admitted as much.

The Clinton plan also sucked because of the individual mandate with no access to a public option. You'd think Democrats on the Hill would have learned by now.

[Warpy]

21. They lost for a lot of reasons

but mostly they lost because Democrats stayed home rather than go out and vote for a lot of do nothing ninnies.

A very large part of that is health care. A very small part of that might be guns, but I'm unconvinced.

Gunloons are not as numerous as you'd like to believe. Everybody has gotten screwed by insurance companies, one way or another.

[derby378]

22. Add me and my family to that list

We've all had problems with our health insurance, especially since the rise of the HMO. But forcing all Americans to buy insurance from the very people who made healthcare the mess it is today is not the solution, either.

[saltpoint]

2. If John Thune said that grass was green I'd find some call to disagree

with him.

[TwilightGardener]

3. All GOPers have been saying that.

[enlightenment]

4. I don't know anything about Thune, but I do know this.

There are many reasons why someone believes that the current bill(s) should be scuttled. Chances are very good that the reasons why someone on DU believes it needs a do-over and why Thune (or another Republican) believes it should be dropped are worlds apart.

A refusal to acknowledge this very simple fact is nothing more than a not very well-concealed attempt to haul out the 'you're either with us or against us' crap. Again.

This constant equation of DUers with Republicans is getting very, very old.

[WeDidIt]

7. The simple fact is, if this bill is scuttled HCR will not be discussed for another 20 years

Sad, but true.

[n2doc]

10. What makes you think that it will be discussed again if it passes?

No one is doing anything about Medicare D even though there are serious problems.

[WeDidIt]

13. History makes me sure.

Social Security sucked when it first passed, but it had to be passed before it could be improved upon.

Medicare sucked with it first passed, but it had to be passed before it could be improved upon.

[Systematic Chaos]

8. + a whole big bunch

Well said!

And let me just chip in: I'm fucking sick of the smears against "Libertarians", too. Before you commit something like that to a post here, you should at least remember that Libertarians come in two very distinct flavors -- Right-wing Free Market Libertarians and Left-Wing Personal Freedom Libertarians. I'm proud to be a staunch Liberal with a leftist Libertarian bent, and I'm far from the only one here.

[YvonneCa]

6. Every Democrat needs to research this bi-partisan' commission'...

...Thune and DEMOCRATS are proposing...a 'BRAC' like (base realignment and closure for taking the politics out of closing military bases) commission to reshape the economy.They want to deal with all entitlements.

All should watch this CNN interview with John King on State of the Union and Senator John Warner...DEMOCRAT. I think he may have just committed political suicide. JMHO.

[boston bean]

11. It's so disingenous to compare thune's reasons for wanting a hcr bill to fail

to liberals who have real concerns.

This argument is a fail on more than one level.

[WeDidIt]

14. The results are the same either way

Killing HCR this year means HCR is dead for two decades, regardless of the underlying reason for killing it.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

[boston bean]

17. You are right about the results, we get conservative policy either way

It all depends on how much you are really willing to stick to principle or sell it out so the other team that will bring you the same thing loses...

[derby378]

18. In that case, that should have been the focus of your OP

I disagree with the premise, but at least I respect it. I think the whole "you're either with us, or you're with the ________" is something that a lot of Americans are tired of.

[Tailormyst]

26. Do you feel the same way about the RW being all for the war escalation?

Or is that different?

[rug]

16. I felt the same way after I saw who lined up behind the escalation.

[Echo In Light]

23. Abso-fucking-lutely

:thumbsup:

[mmonk]

19. I can't see anything for all the straw.

[kestrel91316]

20. I have a theory about why so many on DU happen to be aligned with

RW views.

But I won't keep repeating myself on the subject.

[Tailormyst]

24. The reason for being against the bill are very different though

Your thought process on this is flawed.

[KharmaTrain]

25. A Lesson In Civics...

Sadly some still aren't learning. Who says scrapping healthcare now would mean better results in the future? Many of the same roadblocks that stood in the way this year will still be around next year and in 2011...and I doubt they'll have changes of heart. If anything, a failed bill will make the politicians gunshy about going anywhere near this subject for years to come (just like what happened in '94). A flawed bill can be ammended far easier than starting over.

The end-game here is to get a bill that can be revised...it was done with Social Security and Medicare...to fine-tune parts that do work, close loopholes that are sure to show up that benefit the corporates and exploit loopholes to expand coverage. This is why many who may not like what's in the current bill are still supportive and pushing for passage. It's how government works...it's rare when a major piece of legislation works from the outset.