Stop being so goddamn self-congratulatory.

[lightningandsnow]

I see a lot of threads decrying the homophobia and transphobia in Caribbean countries. Rightfully so; there is no justification for that kind of hatred. However, many of these threads pin the problem on "those people", completely ignoring the role that white Europeans had in cultivating this homophobia.

In many indigenous cultures of the Americas, including the Caribbean, people who we would call gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender were accepted. In some cultures, they were not only accepted, but revered. The term two-spirit, a term which many indigenous people today use to refer to themselves, refers to having both a male and female spirit in one body. These people were often revered as shamans and healers. Some of them were attracted to the same sex, some of them were not. Some of them identified with a gender other than what they were assigned at birth, some did not.

When Europeans came to the Americas to "spread Christianity", they taught the indigenous people that everything they knew about gender and sexuality was wrong. Sex, they said, was only to occur between married opposite-sex couples; cross-gender behavior was looked upon as deviant.

What we need to realize is how colonialism created much of the homophobia in the Caribbean. As black lesbian feminist author Audre Lorde said, "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house". By trying to further "westernize" these countries, we are using the master's tools - colonialism.

What we all need to do is step back and stop congratulating ourselves. We've had a role in cultivating this. It's not all those people over there.

[niyad]

1. k and r for a most excellent post.

[GodlessBiker]

2. "Those people" over there are no different than "those people" right here. Bigoted assholes.

We all have a history. We all have been raised with dominant moral teachings of one form or another, some good and some bad.

It is empowering to hold peoples of all cultures and creeds to the same level of responsibility for their moral decision making.

[Nye Bevan]

3. I'm more concerned about gays being *executed* in Islamic countries

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm


According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty:

The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.

The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.

The Sha'fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.


I don't think Europeans had a role in cultivating *this* kind of barbaric treatment of gay people. And I try not to be self-congratulatory but I think it is acceptable to be proud that my state of CT was the third state in the Union to legalize gay marriage.

[lightningandsnow]

4. See, that makes sense.

[NJmaverick]

5. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think of "those people" as children

they are mature thinking adults who are as capable as any other "people" of understanding and acting upon right or wrong. The idea that "those people" are helpless pawns who fall victim to whatever snake oil salesman that comes their way, seems pretty insulting to "those people". Bigotry is wrong no matter where and who practices it and the bigots have to take full responsibility for their own actions.

[GodlessBiker]

7. +1

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. Yes, you are right and we continue to export our hate too.

there is a fine balance between discussing these issues and takign blame for part of it, however giving individuals a cultural pass, in my opinion is in many just as demeaning.

[NJmaverick]

8. Hey I like your signature line

:thumbsup:

Oh and I think you might want to proof read you post, it needs cleaning up.:hi: