Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush birth control policies helped fuel Africa's baby boom

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 07:06 AM
Original message
Bush birth control policies helped fuel Africa's baby boom
Source: McClatchy Newspapers

Promoting birth control in Africa faces a host of obstacles — patriarchal customs, religious taboos, ill-equipped public health systems — but experts also blame a powerful, more distant force: the U.S. government.

Under President George W. Bush, the United States withdrew from its decades-long role as a global leader in supporting family planning, driven by a conservative ideology that favored abstinence and shied away from providing contraceptive devices in developing countries, even to married women.

Bush's mammoth global anti-AIDS initiative, the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, poured billions of dollars into Africa but prohibited groups from spending any of it on family planning services or counseling programs, whose budgets flat-lined.

The restrictions flew in the face of research by international aid agencies, the U.N. World Health Organization and the U.S. government's own experts, all of whom touted contraception as a crucial method of preventing births of babies being infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/80331.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Guess we republicons screwed up again. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 07:12 AM by SpiralHawk
"As usual. Oh well, at least we republicons are consistent with our Fear & Fail specialities. That's something. Smirk."

- xCommander AWOL (R)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Palin's racist crowd won't like that--- more black/brown babies!
Of course REPUGs are incapable of putting two and two together...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. as long as they're being born elsewhere, that's totally acceptable...
more births in poorer areas means more future labor pools to exploit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Of course they like it.
More black/brown babies= more slave labor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. and the religious nuts that pressed these policies?
we simply need to give them more time to work, especially abstinence. Oh, and let's kill all HIV+ men, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. why isn't the headline "Bush birth control policies helped fuel Africa's AIDS epidemic?"
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 08:24 AM by Blue_Tires
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Meh...
...they are feeding their own fire there. The epidemic was already in full swing when Clinton was in office.

The willful ignorance on the part of many African leaders is staggering and it is passed on to the lesser peoples.

That said...the birth control policies that were put into place were and are criminal at best.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. The leaders willful ignorance is aided and abeted by groups like the Family & the bush admin.
AIDS rate in Uganda dropped in the 90s when they the encouraged the use of condoms along with monogamy and abstinence. That changed thanks to the Bush administration http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17963 & The Family http://books.google.com/books?id=NVmcx-8zdGEC&lpg=PA328&ots=ivc4WO_75z&dq=aids%20uganda%20condoms&pg=PA328#v=onepage&q=aids%20uganda%20condoms&f=false
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I had to find one that mention Bush in the headline
Most said US policies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. Ugh, if there is any place that DOESN'T need a baby boom it's Africa.
Good job, fundies! :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. sub-saharan Africa is becoming a lab for fundie politics
a playground for them to enact their policies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. See: Rachel Maddow on Uganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StreetKnowledge Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Some of them are brither than that.
After all, South Africa was the FIFTH country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage. Their not all backwards shitholes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. And here I always thought fucking
fueled that kind of thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. sex without birth control fuels that kind of thing
which is why obama repealed the abortion gag rule. birth control is the only way many women in third world countries can exercise some power over their fate, which is why the rw hates birth control and abortion. republicon birth control policy is driven by misogyny...plain and simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe China could start shouldering some of the burden of being world leader
China's one child policy has controlled their population, and they have one of the lowest HIV rates in the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. china`s involvement darfur is an international problem
china`s one child policy has left over 20 million men who will never wed.

there is no way to verify the amount of hiv cases in china

state forced abortions was a brutal oppression of women`s rights in china.


as bad as the usa is china is far worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. World OVERPOPULATION is the biggest issue we face on the planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. Catholic Church is also complicit in this . . . their new fortunes rising in Africa and China!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Southern Baptists helped, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Are they also anti-birth control -- anti-abortion???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. The SB convention is pushing it hard.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Fundies as well - check out this report on PublicEye
Globalizing the Culture Wars
U.S. Conservatives, African Churches, and Homophobia

A groundbreaking investigation by Rev. Kapya Kaoma of Political Research Associates exposes how the U.S. Right mobilizes African Protestant clergy to protest any movement towards LGBT equality in U.S. mainline churches while promoting an agenda that criminalizes homosexuality in Africa
http://www.publiceye.org/ark/africa-report
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Thank you -- the whole right wing thing is as fake as their "teabaggers" in my opinion . ..
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 06:12 PM by defendandprotect
The right wing Christian movement here was financed first by the GOP giving start up money

for the Christian Coalition -- and Scaife financed Dobson's organization -- and other wealthy

right wingers financed Bauer's organization.

At the same time, if you remember they were paying "black" preachers NOT to send people out

to vote!


Also, the US/CIA created the Taliban/Al Qaeda, financing it thru ISI-Pakistan -- and they

were financing it up until 9/11 -- see Sibel Edmonds.

One of patriarchy's main tools is religion -- and the Taliban/Al Qaeda were used to BAIT the

Russians into Afghanistan during the Carter administration . . . "in hopes of giving the

Russians a Vietnam type experience."


Further, the US/CIA created the VIOLENT Islamic movement and has pushed it into the Middle East.

Details on both of these subjects below --



From what we know about the computer steals at this point, I've long been wondering if the

Nixon "Southern Strategy" was also a crock. The large computers used by MSM began coming in

during the mid-1960's. Previously, they had only been able to REPORT actual election results.

The computers gave them new powers to PROJECT, PREDICT and CALL elections for both candidates

and states, including ELECTORAL VOTES. We saw how this power was used in 2000 with Fox/Ellis

re-calling Florida from Gore and re-calling it for Bush.

Meanwhile, the individual voting computers began coming in during the late-1960's which also

gave them great power to hijack votes. Some of this information about plans to steal elections

using computers may have been getting to the Democratic Party officials about the time of

Watergate ... some suggest that may have been the information Nixon feared the Democrats had

discovered. See: Votescam/The Stealing of America -- will provide link later tonight.

IMO, all of our elections back to the Nixon/Humphrey squeaker are suspect --


Here are the details on US/CIA and religion --- requoted from my journal --



REQUOTED ...

US/CIA also created the Islamic Fundi movement in ME ---
We spent millions on printing and producing the vile text books used to teach violent notions
of Islam. At the end here I'll give you a like to the info on Afghanistan and the textbooks.
Again, none of this happened by accident -- it's been used to disrupt peaceful religions.


FIRST PART OF THIS DEALS WITH HOW US/CIA CREATED TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA . . .
TO BAIT RUSSIANS INTO AFGHANISTAN . . .!!!


SECOND PART DEALS WITH THE TEXTBOOKS --



The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Q: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Q: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

http://www.takeoverworld.info/brzezinski_i ... ...



---------------------------------------------------
SECOND PART --


The US spent $100's of millions shooting down Soviet helicopters yet didn't spend a penny helping Afghanis rebuild their infrastructure and institutions.

They also spent millions producing jihad preaching, fundamentalist textbooks and shipping them off to Afghanistan. These were the same text books the Western media discussed in shocked tones and told their audiences were used by fundamentalist teachers to brainwash their charges and to inculcate in young Afghanis a jihad mindset, hatred of foreigners and non-Muslims etc.


Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal?

Or perhaps I should say, "Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal that's waiting to happen?"

Because it has been almost unreported in the Western media that the US government shipped, and continues to ship, millions of Islamist textbooks into Afghanistan.

Only one English-speaking newspaper we could find has investigated this issue: the Washington Post. The story appeared March 23rd.

Washington Post investigators report that during the past twenty years the US has spent millions of dollars producing fanatical schoolbooks, which were then distributed in Afghanistan.

"The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books..." -- Washington Post, 23 March 2002 (1)

According to the Post the U.S. is now "...wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism."

So the books made up the core curriculum in Afghan schools. And what were the unintended consequences? The Post reports that according to unnamed officials the schoolbooks "steeped a generation in violence."

How could this result have been unintended? Did they expect that giving fundamentalist schoolbooks to schoolchildren would make them moderate Muslims?

Nobody with normal intelligence could expect to distribute millions of violent Islamist schoolbooks without influencing school children towards violent Islamism. Therefore one would assume that the unnamed US officials who, we are told, are distressed at these "unintended consequences" must previously have been unaware of the Islamist content of the schoolbooks.

But surely someone was aware. The US government can't write, edit, print and ship millions of violent, Muslim fundamentalist primers into Afghanistan without high officials in the US government approving those primers.

http://www.tenc.net/articles/jared/jihad.h ...






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's all part of God's great plan.
You libruls wudn't get that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
17. kicking smirk and the rest of the neo cons
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
18. "No Child Left Behind" leaves almost all kids behind; "Clear Skies" increases pollution 110%;
"Healthy Forests" results in record-breaking clear-cutting...

"Say One Thing And Do Another"; the republic party's platform.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. There is such a thing as retroactive abortion, isn't there?
Where children are born and die before their first birthday, or die of illnesses in childhood secondary to malnourishment. Isn't this a type of abortion? A weeding out of children, not in the womb, but after they have been born? How is the life of a baby that is alive and suffering, that was born with AIDs and never had a chance to live beyond his first birthday, somehow more acceptable than birth control? These fundamentalist fuckwits want to raise generations of children, and then use Darwinian selection to kill off the weakest ones, and leave the strongest to overpopulate an area for scarce resources that will eventually lead to wars over those scarce resources and weed out even more lives. Jesus crapped. What kind of horrific mentality is this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Don't kid yourselves after India and China become too "expensive"
This is where the next great cheap labor force will come from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yep, that's what happened to Mexico and what's happening to India right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I don't know much about business but the signals have been pretty clear for a long time to me.
Africa or bust.

Then maybe we start all over again in Europe in 2045? LOL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Too much instability and violence for that to happen anytime soon
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SOCALS Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. I am disgusted at all the comments
I am disgusted at all the comments here that are unhappy with more children being born in Africa. If you believe that a birth of a black child is a bad thing that has to be prevented, you are not a Democrat, you are a racist! Imagine if someone like you had their way several decades ago and prevented the birth of President’s Obama father!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Laballing black births as bad is needed by some to avoid cognitive dissonance
Many people here are thoroughly convinced that Bush is a racist, that he hates black people and did everything he could get away with to exterminate them.

Welcome to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. That's not what is being postulated here, sorry. The reality is that Sub-Saharan Africa is a very
impoverished place, for many reasons, including past colonialism. The ill-structured economies and poorly run governments there have led to unprecedented amounts of human misery - not very good places to raise and nurture large numbers of children in, among other things.

No one thinks - or has stated - that they think the "birth of a black child is a bad thing": that's what's called a "Strawman" argument. The point is that due to its impoverishment, Sub-Saharan Africans, particularly women, could have used the many family planning services that the dumb-ass Bush regime refused to provide them. This would have helped African women plan their pregnancies or prevent them in the cases where they could not feed or support any more. And, yes, terminate those pregnancies in instances where their meager resources simply precluded another mouth to feed.

This would not have just been good for African women, but for Sub-Saharan African nations as a whole. You really should reflect a bit more before you type yourself into erecting a big 'ole huge honking Strawman that is so easily pointed out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SOCALS Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. There are many other impoverished places in the world
however Africa is singled out for birth prevention. I wonder why? You can rationalize it all day long, but all I see here is the desire to cap the number of black children. Would you have the same opinion if it were white blond blue eyed Anglo Saxon children ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. You don't read very well. Please focus your attention on the post above, concentrate real hard, and
then try again. Thanks. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. And by-the-bye, Africa is *far* from the only place "singled out" for birth prevention measures -
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 09:59 PM by apocalypsehow
why, even the Cleveland suburbs get plenty of attention in that regard.

Why are you so racist as to allow birth prevention to be promoted at home but at the same time denied to poor Black Africans? Hmmmmm? One wonders...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SOCALS Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Population of entire Africa is smaller than population of China
yet everyone in the West is so concerned with the number of black children being born there. I think there is not much to discuss here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. China is a sovereign country not asking for Western handouts - you're really not very good at adult
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 10:39 PM by apocalypsehow
discussion and grown-up back & forth, are you? :shrug:

"yet everyone in the West is so concerned with the number of black children being born there"

False. The vast majority of people are concerned about the number of black children dying there.

"I think there is not much to discuss here"

Indeed. You're kinda lapsing into laughing-stock territory with every new reply.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Laughable more still is that our one-day-wonder on DU "SOCALS" has apparently never heard of China's
"one-child" policy, which they have enforced for going on two generations now.

Like I said, the snickers amplify with every passing reply...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
35. While I disagree with his policy
I would hesitate to lay the blame at our feet.

Africas birth rate is not our responsibility.

You may as well say the entire rest of the world is to blame for not allocating more money towards family planning in africa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Have to agree with you
Is the United states the only nation on the planet that can manufacture inexpensive condems or birth control pills. Is the United States the only nation on the planet that can transport and distribute these birth control aids to countries in sub-Sahara Africa. Where are all of those wonderful European socities (you know the ones with health care) How many million condems have the purchased and distributed in sub-Sahara Africa, How many millions of birth control pills have the purchased and distributed in sub-Sahara Africa. To say that the United States is responsible for the population problem in sub-Sahara Africa overlooks that fact that we are not the ones having sex over there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. It is odd that people who
would complain about the US role overseas, getting involved in the inner workings of other nations, seem to also believe the US should also take responsibility for the sex lives of people in other countries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC