Mac haters, don't read this.

[alfredo]

AdweekMedia's winners of its "Best of the 2000s"

Marketer of the Decade (Steve Jobs)

Brand of the Decade (Apple)

Product of the Decade (iPod)

Campaign of the Decade (Apple, "Get a Mac")

Out-of-Home Ad of the Decade (Apple, "Silhouettes")

Digital Campaign of the Decade (Nike Plus in a joint effort with Apple)

TBWA/Chiat/Day's Media Arts should share in many of the awards.

[msongs]

1. all that and its STILL only the 4th best selling operating system lolol nt

[safeinOhio]

4. Not that many

can afford the good stuff.

[Atman]

5. And what rank is Mercedes Benz? Or Ferrari?

Just saying.

The Ford Taurus sold a shitload. So does that make it the best car ever built?

:shrug:

.

[targetpractice]

8. Source?

What are the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd "best selling" operating systems?

[Sebastian Doyle]

31. I was wondering that myself

Windows obviously would be number 1. Most versions of Linux are free to download, so that couldn't qualify as a "best seller", and even if you count all Linux users as "sales" it's probably behind Mac.

So what the Hell are 2 & 3 on this mythical list?

[phasma ex machina]

70. Windows Vista Home Basic, Windows Vista Home Premium, Windows XP Home.

M$ works it like Coke with different flavors getting their own place on the lits.

[alfredo]

73. Buy a PC, you have little choice but to buy Windows. That doesn't mean it

is a superior product.

[phasma ex machina]

75. +1 My comment only illustrates how various Windows flavors can potentially

occupy the first three slots.

A more honest list would simply show Windows at slot 1 and MacOS at slot 2.

OTOH perhaps Linux occupies slot 2 or 3, but it's impossible for me to believe that BSD occupies slot 3. Does Advertising Age even recognize open source software?

So, what's another popular OS besides Windows, Linux, MacOS?

[alfredo]

78. That would also put UNIX/Linux as #2. Apple is the larges UNIX retailer. I'm waiting

to see if ChromeOS works out. Apple will profit from that in that Webkit is used for Chrome. I think ChromeOS is Linux.

I think the iPhone/iPod will be Apple's foot in the enterprise door. Their servers are very good, and easy to configure, and are well suited to small enterprise. Xgrid is very good too.

They also have a very liberal and straightforward licensing scheme.

Apple thinks like the insurgent. They knew if they played MS's game they'd be crushed, so the did an end run around them and took over markets outside MS's core product line. MS has shown little expertise outside its core business. They do make nice mice and keyboards though.

It isn't just the products that makes Apple special, it is their corporate philosophy that makes the unique. They are like Pharmaceuticals where you are only as good as what is in the pipeline. That's why speculation about the next great thing out of Apple is such a big thing.

If Detroit was more progressive and less conservative they'd dominate the auto market. They'd be pushing the technology and forcing others to spend time and money to play catch up. The US needs more visionary business leaders like Steve Jobs, and less Steve Balmers.

Steve Jobs broke the rules which enabled him to make the rules. This is what many are missing when they criticize Apple for not licensing their OS.

Insurgencies win more often than not. The pirate flag that used to fly over Apple headquarters was not whimsy, it was an expression of their philosophy.

[phasma ex machina]

79. +1 "If Detroit was more progressive and less conservative they'd dominate the auto market."

Dozens of auto manufacturers used to populate the Great Lakes region. Until three big bloated bureaucratic ogres ate them. With a little help from Uncle Sam ($$$).

[alfredo]

80. Back then they were only competing with domestic autos.

[Steely_Dan]

131. Excellent and Accurate Analysis n/t

[Tesha]

89. Symbian (NT)

[alfredo]

16. But with a market cap larger than Dell, HP, IBM, Levano, and Intel.

23.4 Billion Cash on Hand. Oh, and zero debt. Pretty good for 4th place. Also they don't have to buy their operating system from someone else.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

54. How does all of that help me, the end user?

It doesn't and neither does spiffy marketing campaigns, which is all that you've listed in the OP.

[alfredo]

72. With money in reserve, they don't need to cut corners or resort to conservative

business practices. They can afford to innovate. Those innovations do help us the users. Because they are wealthy and growing, they don't have to keep squeezing existing users like MS has had to over the years. They keep a healthy revenue stream through new products, not sneaky licensing.

I listed those awards because the topic was about marketing awards. It was not about the product, but the marketing of those products.

No matter how good the marketing, if the product doesn't deliver, it fails. So far Apple has delivered. Sure they have some failures, but that's what happens when you take risks.

Where do you think computing, music, movies, publishing, and smart phones would be without the disruptive technologies out of Apple? They needed cash to develop and market those technologies.

I've known since the 90's that Apple was eyeing Hollywood as part of controlling content creation and delivery. Though Apple hasn't taken over, Jobs is now the largest share holder in Disney, and his people have creative control of Disney.

[HopeHoops]

29. I've probably used every major verson of Mac OS since the first.

I've got a Mac Mini running OS X on my desk by this Vista laptop. Both have browser windows open at this very moment. I have a few observations.

1) OS X has a lot of "why the fuck can't I do this?" issues. It has not lived up to the hype and I don't find it particularly intuitive. It does seem to behave pretty well with a two-button mouse.
2) I'm no fan of M$ and Vista has countless problems, but it is still far easier to guess how to do something you've never tried on Vista than on OS X.
3) The Amiga was way ahead of the Mac in user interface design and ease of use. Unfortunately, the company was run by a bunch of dumbshits. Shortly before the demise of Commodore, and at a time when it was essential to eliminate their image as a "game company", they hired a new CEO named "Max Toy". I shit you not.
4) As for the older versions of Mac OS, while they made M$ systems of the time look like horse-carts, the stubborn dedication to a single-button mouse eliminated any argument that it was "easy to use." Even GEOS on the C=64 was more intuitive.
5) The Pages and Numbers applications are rather pathetic excuses for a word processor and spreadsheet. You would think by now that they would have come up to speed, but I don't think they've paid any attention to either in years. Of course, M$ hasn't paid any serious attention to IE in years and even then it was a fairly weak attempt to bring IE6 in line with CSS and other standards that they not only ignored but actively rebelled against through IE 5. IE 7 hardly counts as a release version.
6) Safari is a kick ass browser but Firefox is still better.
7) The Spaces multiple-environment thing they borrowed from KDE is perhaps the best feature of OS X. You could do the same thing on the Amiga when it came out over 20 years ago (but by sliding workspaces), and KDE had it long ago, but I'm glad to see it in OS X. I don't know if Win 7 has anything similar since I haven't tried it yet, but Vista doesn't and that sucks.
8) Time Machine is a wonderful thing. I've got a dedicated drive for the Mac and I've gone back in time to restore specific versions of code. It produces some funky-ass error messages, but I haven't seen any evidence that it failed to work.
9) Xcode isn't bad, but it isn't great. The integration of SCM also leaves a lot to be desired. The debugger is seriously buggy.
10) The Mini boots really quickly and uptime for OS X is easily the best for any version of Mac OS. That's probably because of its UNIX code base. I've run a variety of UNIX machines over the years that rarely needed to be rebooted and were only shut down to be moved or for hardware maintenance. Vista seems to need a restart every once in a while just to get its head straight. My daughter's XP box seems to run forever and I've had 98 SE machines go for several months without a reboot. Win 95 made it easy - it simply crashed. I worked with almost every version of PC/M$ DOS and they were a mixed bag. If memory serves me, the stable versions were 2.2, 3.3, and 5.2. The entire 4.x thing was a tragic joke.
11) I'm hungry. It is almost noon.

[alfredo]

35. OSX had spaces through free third party apps. Virtual Desktops was way

before KDE. Safari used KHTML used in Konqueror. BTW, give Omniweb a try. It's been around a long time. It was the browser used by NeXT.

Here's a list of web browsers that uses Apple's Webkit

ABrowse
Arora
Web Browser for Android (mobile device platform)
BOLT browser
Google Chrome
Epiphany (web browser)
iCab (version 4 uses WebKit; earlier versions used its own rendering engine)
Iris Browser
Midori
OmniWeb
rekonq
Safari
Shiira
Sputnik for MorphOS (based on S60 WebCore)
SRWare Iron
Stainless
TeaShark
Uzbl
Web Browser for S60 (for mobile)
WebOS, used in the Palm Pre mobile

[HopeHoops]

37. I think that's just a handful of them. Aren't there like 200 or so WebKit browsers?

As for virtual desktop, the Amiga had the best of them. You could grab one and pull it down like and upside down window shade. I had a lot of fun with that by putting something in a hidden workspace (like a nude) and zipping the front workspace down and back up when someone was in the room. "What nude?"

[alfredo]

53. When Apple added them a simple key combo did the trick. Command -Arrow.

Amiga had some neat technology.

[CBGLuthier]

43. Amiga. One hell of a design and some great programmers

Commodore on the other hand was ran right into the ground.

My Amiga ran a multitasking operating system without my even owning a hard drive. From a floppy disk.

[TCJ70]

57. That sounds interesting...

...a multitasking OS with no hard drive...it was entirely memory based then? Maybe I'm not understanding but it sounds impressive. haha

[HopeHoops]

64. No, it booted from the floppy.

It was an amazing piece of equipment. Keep in mind that this was the mid-80's. It is hard to think about the metrics now with 1 TB external drives for about $100 and 16 GB thumb drives for $40. I just downloaded the "driver only" file for a printer and the damn thing was 42 MB!!!

On Edit:

GEOS on the C=64 was a windowing OS that booted from a 156K floppy with room to spare for files (granted, not a LOT of room, but still). It was sort of begging for a second drive but I couldn't afford one.

[ConsAreLiars]

97. It was truly miraculous when compared to the state of the art at that time.

It displayed 4096 colors when others did 2 or maybe 16. It sang when others just beeped. It even talked. With some add-ons it displayed and processed full motion video when others were just trying to keep a spreadsheet recalculation reasonably un-slow.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga

There's an emulator with a lot of extras at http://www.amigaforever.com/

[HopeHoops]

62. I eventually got a hard drive, but it runs fine on a single floppy.

It wasn't just that the OS was multi-tasking. The hardware coprocessors set it so far ahead of the competition that it boggles the mind to consider what they would be producing if they were still around today. Running the processor at NTSC or PAL multiples let it rule video production. There was nothing on the market on any other platform comparable to the Video Toaster. Just getting a PC to handle video involved some expensive gadgets. The Amiga handled it just fine with a simple and inexpensive coupling device.

In a strange twist of irony, M$ appropriated the word "blitter" for its MFC copy functions - the "BLT prefix doesn't stand for "bacon, lettuce, and tomato" - yet no M$ machine has ever had a blitter chip.

[phasma ex machina]

71. It takes an OS CLI to make me feel at home on a Mac - scares the hell out of my clients tho. nt

[ROFF]

128. And cockroaches....

outnumber humans. Does that make them a superior life form?

[whatchamacallit]

2. Mac rulz! (nt)

[tblue]

9. Damn straight! nt

[Xenotime]

65. They are a wonderful progressive company.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Wow, adweekmedia.

That's, like, the Stainless Steel Refrigerator Finishers Quarterly of the advertising world.

[Atman]

7. No, actually...AdWeek is kinda like a bible of the industry

You, however, are kinda like an ignorant dumbass.

.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Ooooo.

A Mac fanboy's calling me names. You sure showed me.

[Atman]

44. Not a Mac fanboy -- I work in advertising.

Adweek is a pretty respected publication in the advertising biz, that's all. You tried to make a funny, but you just showed your ignorance of the issue.

.

[charlie]

6. Admen say Apple knows how to sell?

Nothing against Apple, but sexiest sales pitch isn't my measure of utility.

[Atman]

10. Good thing they were only talking about MARKETING.

Stay focused...this is ADWEEK talking, not TECH week or whatever.

Although, Consumer Reports and most major computer mags reach the same conclusion. But don't let that cloud your hatred of Apple.

.

[charlie]

12. Whoo. I'm gonna be a "hater" whether I like it or not

That'll teach me to wander into a church. Apologies all around.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

13. I know. Right? This thread is silly. I'm goin' for a beer.

[alfredo]

18. Utility is not what Adweek was judging. They were judging excellence in marketing.

[EOTE]

111. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the poster was trying to say. NT.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

14. translation : Apple has suckered more people

into believing they are the first to do everything and therefor can charge out the ass for it. Look, their stuff is sexy. It has some cute bells and whistles. They sell the shit out of it to gullible people willing to pay 20%-50% more for a label. The fact that an advertising/marketing rag is giving them awards is no surprise...

sP

[alfredo]

19. Apple changed TV ads with an ad that was aired once. They sped up the adoption

of the USB. They changed the way music is sold. They showed what is possible with the UNIX platform. Watch them to start changing gaming. They've already changed the smart phone industry. They helped transform recording music, and editing movies, moving them out of the big studios and into the artist's home. The iPod and QuickTime played a big part in the production of Lord of The Rings.

I paid $800 for my MacMini and it's pretty good, not a lick of trouble, It's powerful enough to handle large RAW files, it's silent and doesn't draw a lot of power, and I can hold the computer in the palm of my hand.

[No Passaran]

24. I was like you once

Ever since I got a Mac I can't stand working on Windows. It's not just "pretty", it's fast, reliable and I don't have to worry about viruses and spyware.

[JCMach1]

15. Don't all advertisers USE MACS???

Doh!

[alfredo]

17. I bet most of those commercials were done with Final Cut Pro.

[struggle4progress]

20. As a mac owner, I'm gonna put in a nice word for some linux distros, like Ubuntu and Mint

I like the macs I have, and osx is pretty user-friendly -- but there are a few things about macs and osx that would make anyone scream and tear out handfuls of hair. One of those things is the eula that prevents folk from running osx on non-apple hardware: it sucks that you just can't run osx in sun's wonderful virtual box (for example). Another of those things is apple's cheerful "FU guys!" approach to connectors: lots of apple boxes come with connectors straight out of bizarro world that require special adaptors to work with the other stuff you already have

The open-source stuff often works on lots of different boxes and works well

[Ichingcarpenter]

22. Apple CEO Steve Jobs named finalist for Time Person of the Year

Time magazine will announce its annual Person of the Year this week, and the magazine has revealed its top seven finalists, with Apple co-founder Steve Jobs making the cut.

The magazine issued its narrowed list this week, prior to the reveal scheduled to be made Wednesday on NBC's Today Show. In addition to Jobs, the finalists are President Barack Obama, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernake, U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, Olympic gold medalist Usain Bolt, and "the Chinese worker."


http://digg.com/d31Cobm

That being said I think linux distros, Ubuntu and Mint
are very nice OS. I have Ubuntu on my iMac in bootcamp
and think its a very fine operating system

[alfredo]

60. When I get a larger drive, I'm going the Bootcamp route.

I've been dual booting Linux since MkLinux days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux

A guy on the MkLinux team told us that this is the direction the Mac OS was heading. There was also a belief that if MS killed off Apple, many would migrate to Linux.

[Elwood P Dowd]

21. Obama team chose Apple

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/11/07/obama-team-chose-apple-on-election-night/

I know about a dozen people who have switched from Windoze PCs to Apples the past 4-5 years. I don't know anyone who has switched from Apple to Windoze. I switched back in the 1990s when there was no slick marketing campaign. Since then, I've purchased 5 Apple computers and 2 iPods. They are all still working. Burned a couple of CDs last night with my 1999 iMac while watching a movie on my 2005 iBook. My sister has spent more money than those two computers combined just trying to get her Dell laptop and eMachine desktop to function properly the past 5 years. The computer stores love people like her. She refuses to buy an Apple because Al Gore and Steve Jobs are liberals.

[NuttyFluffers]

23. i will agree. their marketing this decade literally is a major mark of this decade.

it's been one of the most memorable constants in advertising these past 10 years, as well as really shaping the pop culture landscape. i completely agree to this assessment. whoever did Apple's marketing of late deserves HUGE accolades.

edit: and people with any sense in their head should understand this has nothing to do with computers or OSes, but products, brand names, etc. out of everything these past ten years i think the only other thing that has become remotely close has been perhaps Prius or Hummers, and the endless death march of Big Pharma ads.

[Hekate]

25. I love my Mac. I learned (finally) on a Mac 20+ years ago, and never looked back....

Up to that point I'd had more than one job where I had an IBM Selectric on my desk and a PC down the hall that I was supposed to learn to use -- and then use, down the hall, while answering the phone in my office and doing my other work. I recall being given no manual, just verbal instructions either in a class or by a co-worker, and when I tried to take notes about the commands I was treated like an idiot.

Then one fine day I was in a new job where there was a little Mac on the desk, with a tutorial installed, and lo and behold the thing was so damn easy and intuitive I practically wept for joy.

In another year I bought my first Mac for home use. I used it for my volunteer work, my correspondence, and in time I got my Master's Degree using it.

When it came time to write my PhD dissertation my husband bought me an up-to-date version that also got me on the Internet and I started emailing like mad, in addition to writing my dissertation.

I would not trade brands for anything.

Hekate

[goldcanyonaz]

26. This reminds me of the Olay commericals where they win best in every catagory.

Turns out they are the ones who advertise the most.

Go figure.

I do love my macs but they're still so expensive compared with pc's.

[ET Awful]

27. Subtract the iPod and iPhone from the equation and you get . . .

Well, they'd still have one of those left. . . .maybe.

Here's the facts - If Apple had, in the early days of the Mac's existence, done what IBM did and allowed others to build compatible PC's, they'd own the entire market now.

Their greed was their downfall. When they sued people making compatible machines out of existence (which they still do even today), they narrowed their market sure and guaranteed themselves they'd always be a runner up in the industry.

Marketer of the Decade? Hell, if Jobs had been smart in the 80's, they could have been the tech marketer of the century.

[alfredo]

30. It didn't serve Apple's long term goals to license their OS. They are a Hardware

Company. The OS adds value to the hardware. When Apple tried licensing, they had certain rules to that license that the licensee violated. They had every right to yank their license.

Apple is doing well at the market share they have. The computer is just a part of their overall strategy. It ties together all the other pieces of hardware.

If they had licensed and allowed the Mac to become a commodity, they'd be just another box on the retail shelf. They opted to control their hardware and software to ensure a level of quality and compatibility. Look at MS. They have to cater to a dizzying array of hardware standards. The PC user has to do a "driver search" every time there's a big upgrade to the OS.

Compare the stock of AAPL and MSFT over a ten year period. Also see how they track against the stock market. Which one over performs, which one tracks the market. With the huge market share of MS, it would seem their Market cap would be more than 80 to 90 billion more than Apple, but it isn't. Apple is doing the right thing. Their strategy is working.

I've only had one driver problem with OSX in eight years, and that was the drivers for an old HP printer. Within days the community found workarounds that helped until HP and Apple wrote drivers for the rather large inventory of HP printers.

In 13 years I've never had a virus, had only one instance of needing to send a box in for repair. It turned out to be a permissions problem.

Your complaints about pricing of Apple products is out of date. Sure you can go to Walmart and buy a cheaper computer, but if you want something you know will be useable for many years to come, you spend a bit more for quality. One of my Macs is ten years old. It is running OS9. It was running Linux but I retored OS9 so Jae could play some legacy games. It's never needed any repair.

I decided on Macs when I first shopped for computers back in the 90's. Instead of talking to salesmen, I talked to the guys in the repair shop. I asked them what is the most trouble free, they all said the Mac.

[ET Awful]

38. You killed your whole argument with having to "send a box in".

See, with a PC, you don't have to send anything anywhere.

Once again, without the iPod, that entire list would be gone for the most part. Anyone with a modicum of honesty will admit as much.

I've been using PC's since 1989 or so. Never had a virus. Not one. I'd say my 20 years trumps your 13.

If their strategy was working, they'd own the market.

See, I AM the guys in the repair shop. I do nothing but work on computers. All day, every day. I work on PC's, Macs, Unix Servers, you name it.

If anyone asks me, I'll recommend a PC. Why? Because everyone, everywhere knows how to use one. You can walk into any electronics story anywhere and get software, hardware upgrades, anything you want. I enjoy having the freedom to use any hardware I want at any time I want.

Had Apple been smart enough to design and license a platform others could use . . . they'd own the market, and I'd be a huge fan.

As it is, when you support an environment with over 100 users, and you need to use industry standard software (especially if you're in a heavily regulated specialized industry like I am), you go with what works.

Sorry, Macs don't fit my requirements, they never will.

They make great machines. They make a great OS, but they will never be anything more than an also ran when it comes to the PC market because they screwed themselves before you turned on your first Mac. Without the iPhone and iPod, the only people that would ever mention the name Apple are the small niche market they cater to.

You know it too.

[alfredo]

46. dupe

[alfredo]

47. dupe

[alfredo]

48. Send meant taking it to CompUSA and picking it up a couple hours later. I didn't

have to mail it off.

When I did the repairman survey, it was back in the last century.

Not every company wants to gain a monopoly. Jobs had a specific plan when he rejoined Apple. It wasn't about having Mac OS in a monopoly position. He didn't want the Mac to be a bean counter's ball and chain, he was interested in content delivery. The computer was not the end, it was a means to an end. His focus was building "insanely great" products. He's had more hits than misses, and he was right on the money when he put the focus on mobile computing.

Apple is much more powerful with just "4" percent than companies with a much larger user base.They do that by pushing innovations and brilliant marketing. They ditched the floppy drive, dropped SCSI for Firewire and USB. they were the first to go all LCD. They now make the greenest computer, the MacMini. Their lexan case on the early iMacs shook the industry up. How they did it without seams was a mystery to some. The Aluminum case on their pro computers is a thing of beauty. Their all in one laptop case is a big advancement in design and methods.


The iPod is becoming a popular gaming platform.

iTunes is just in its infancy. The Apple retail outlets went against conventional wisdom but has paid off.

Jobs is a visionary with an incredible design team to make the ideas real. Jonathan Ives is the unsung hero, he is the design genius.

[ET Awful]

61. Blah blah blah . . . once again, your entire argument boils down to

being a dedicate fan of a platform that caters to a niche market and that will never become mainstream.

I can't believe that you would even put forth the idea that "it's pretty" as a legitimate argument. Are we talking about a tool or a piece of furniture?

Once again, great machine, great OS, poor early decisions. Apple will always be an also ran in the PC market and will always hold only a very small minority share of that market. You know it too.

Much more powerful? More powerful than who? Microsoft? The notion is laughable.

[alfredo]

69. Lotus, Porsche, Aston Martin are niche market. That doesn't make them

less valuable. They are not mass market products. Their business model is not the same as Toyota and Fiat. Apple's business model is different than Dell's. They didn't want to play in a market that is saturated by "beige" boxes.

I'm more a fan of the way Apple is pushing marketing, and consumer electronics. They keep it from becoming boring.

Pretty is important. If a person becomes attached to an item, they take better care of that item. If the item is designed from the user out, it will be easier to use. (user friendly) Design wasn't the main focus for computers and home electronic manufacturers, until the iMac. After it hit the market, consumer items from computers to steam irons started playing with colors and form.

The music industry was dying, Apple gave them a way to survive with the iTunes Store and iPod.

Brick and Motar stores were failing, Apple showed they could work. They also changed the face of retail through innovative retail space design.

Apple is changing mobile computing with the iPod/iPhone. They are in the process of changing gaming, and soon they may change publishing.

They brought UNIX to the home desktop.

Final Cut Pro made professional video easy and inexpensive, bringing a more democratic atmosphere to the movie industry. Watch CNN and other news organization and most likely you are watching content edited using FCP.

Earlier they changed the music industry bringing desktop music production to the desktop. You could make a simple studio for about the same as it would have cost to do a demo at Ernie Clements studio. Earlier they changed publishing with DTP. My niece is a long time DTP professional. She is now artistic director of a major publication. At one time she did DTP for the major player in braille publishing. The Mac is her platform of choice.

They don't need to dominate the computer market to be a major player. They are big enough to make an impact, but small enough to be nimble.

[ET Awful]

85. People were using Unix and/or Linux on home PC's long before Apple came along.

Once again, as I said, they are a niche market that will never become mainstream.

You do realize that you're admitting as much with your response don't you?

[alfredo]

87. Why is it so important to be mainstream? They are doing very well on the fringes.

Some of us like it on the fringe, it gives us more freedom.

Yes, others did UNIX before, but not on the scale and not as polished as OSX. Jobs made the UNIX underpinnings opaque. You just have to look in utilities to find the terminal and X11. He wanted a UNIX people of all skill levels could use without even reading the instructions. The Nix's can be intimidating for some, so he hid it and downplayed the fact that it was UNIX.

[ET Awful]

88. Why is it so important to you that everyone bow down and worship at the Apple altar?

Hmmmm?

Here's a little fact for you. If Apple ceased to exist and production stopped on everything Mac related, the majority of computer systems on the planet would continue to function with nary a hiccup. The vast majority of businesses would continue to function. Production would continue across all types of industry all over the world and Apples sudden non-existence would be nothing but a blip on the radar.

That's a fact.

[alfredo]

91. They may still function, but they will lack a competitor that pushes the

market. We need companies like Apple that take risks, and push us off dead center. Nobody pushed the US steel industry. They got fat and lazy. Instead of innovating and plowing money back in the business, the let it wither on the vine. Whole sections of our country died.

Apple still has the fire in the belly. I see few businesses in the US that is really trying. They are playing it safe, while Asia is hungry, creative, and cleaning our clocks.

[ET Awful]

102. I see . . . so your argument is that without Apple, thousands of union laborers

would lose their jobs in the most impoverished portions of the country due to the government making the importation of computers from other countries easier?

That's the most non-sensical argument yet.

Once again, great os, great product, will never get beyond a minor market share.

[alfredo]

103. No, I am speaking of the value of progressive leadership in the business sector.

Apple hasn't needed to get beyond a "minor market share" to have an impact.

Our business community has become very conservative, have stopped taking risks, and in the case of banks, and insurance, have manipulated the market to remove risk.

[ET Awful]

106. Ah yes, banks and insurance, after all, they have so much to do with Apple Macintosh computers

:)

[alfredo]

107. I'm not talking just about Apple Banks and insurance companies, I am

talking about corporate culture.

[ET Awful]

119. You mean the corporate culture that sues or threatens to sue anyone who

leaks information about new products before the official announcement date?

That type of corporate culture?

[alfredo]

129. They have every right to protect confidential info.

Leaks can be used by competitors, and can undermine a big product roll out.

Industrial espionage has been around for a long time.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ET Awful]

101. Isn't that CUTE . . . .

He can't come up with a legitimate argument, so, instead, he resorts to that age old conservative tactic of hurling insults and obscenities.

Well DONE!

You can't even read my posts enough to know that I actually say they make a good product can you? You are so hung up on YOUR Mac evangelism that you can't even catch on to the simple FACT that what I said was that if Apple had been smart enough to make it a more open platform from the beginning, they would own the market.

But YOU, in YOUR quest to be the spokesperson (though I don't think Jobs would like a foulmouthed spokesperson such as yourself) for Mac can't even recognize what my point is can you?

If ignorance is bliss, you must walk around with a huge smile all day.

[alfredo]

108. they didn't want to own the market, they had specific ideas of where they

wanted to go. I brought up their Market Cap earlier to show that they have become very wealthy without aiming for a monopoly status. Their business plan has been very successful, and it has kept the company small enough to be manageable. You could say they adhered to KISS.

Look at all the problems MS has had the past decade. Their desire to gain and hold onto their monopoly has hurt them. Growth has stagnated and so has their stock. They face suits and legal actions because of their business practices in pursuit of market dominance. They have no where to go but down. Apple has plenty room for growth.

[ET Awful]

117. You really just don't get it do you?

MS has little to do with this topic.

What we are discussing is why Apple holds a minority market share and always will. I point this out, you acknowledge it, and you continue the whinefest trying to explain why they have a minority share.

Once again. . . they always had a minority share, they always will, and businesses (and consumers) the world over will continue to function 100% without owning a Mac or ever touching one.

You really just don't get that all you're doing is confirming what I've said do you?

[alfredo]

130. And you don't seem to understand that some businesses are just fine

with a minority share of the market. Jobs commented that 10% market share was more than enough for them.

the computer as we know it is going through a big change. It's going to be less desktop and more mobile devices. Apple is well positioned in the laptop and mobile device market. Apple has a 91% share of the premium laptop market. Their laptops are high margin items. Overall, they have a 12% share in laptops. iPhone has a 30% share, right behind Blackberry. iPhone now has a larger share of the mobile OS market than Windows mobile. Computers are so yesterday.


Yes MS has a lot to do with this topic. They are an example of getting so big a market share that they have stopped growing. Their stock is flat and has been that way all decade.

[Touchdown]

110. Yeah, keep making shit up.

Since you got my post deleted, I must've struck a nerve.

So far you haven't had any point in this thread, instead of your mac cult fantasies. Spokesperson? LOL! You really do have a prolific ass to pull shit out of, don't you?

Apple is the most powerful computer company in the world right now, influencing markets without even announcing a thing (Tablet computer rumors, causing others to come out with their own) and sitting on $36Billion to buy anyone they want now. They were obviously smart enough not to take your advice.

[ET Awful]

115. No, you got your post deleted with personal insults and atacks.

Tablet computers have been around for quite a while now. I configured the first one I remember in 2002 or 2003 actually.

You really should tone down the insults and obscenities, they really dilute any point you might be trying to make.

[Touchdown]

120. You should really stop posting your silly opinions and capitalize FACT when you do it.

If you think Apple is going to make an also ran tablet like the current niche market of expensive touch tablets, then you really have less of a clue that you did before. If they are making this thing for real, it's going to actually have some use.

Just as you ignore advice to not read a thread, Apple Hater, I can ignore your advice on how I behave. You are not my Daddy, and I'm not so deluded to think I can convince you of anything, since like a teabagger, you think we are something that we never have been, because of the narrative you've been indoctrinated in. Mac cults, and Steve Jobs' worship demands exist in your pre-programmed brain only.

[ET Awful]

122. Do you actually read before you post or just spew?

See where I say multiple times that Apple makes a great product?

You really DON'T read do you?

I mean seriously. . . CAN you read? Or do you just spew forth?

Now, go back. Read my first post in the thread. Read my follow-up posts.

See where I say specifically that Apple makes a great product? Now . . . tell me . . . if you can. . . would someone who is a "Apple Hater" say they made a great product? I mean seriously, are you really that incapable of understanding simple English?

I've never once said I hated Apple. Never once implied it. You're the one spouting nonsense about me hating them, not me.

You really should practice rational thought. It works well in the reality based community the rest of us live in.

[Touchdown]

124. I read that throw away line to preface your bashing.

It's kind of like... I'm not a racist, BUT...

[ET Awful]

127. Ahhhh . . . the insults again.

Thanks for proving that you do not, in fact, read anything.

Welcome to ignore. . . only the 2nd person to ever make there.

[Touchdown]

132. Yeah, you're a real man.

... and yes, I know you can't see it unless you click.

[Touchdown]

116. And... your cats still think you should let it go.

:hi:

[ET Awful]

118. Mmmmhmmm . . . let what go? The fact that you spew obscenities and immature insults to make

a nonexistent point?

I love that when you can't say anything that actually contradicts anything I've said, you chose to target my cats.

How long until you graduate high school anyway?

Tell you what . . . go back to my first post in this thread.

Read it.

Read it again.

[Touchdown]

123. I am far from targeting your cats. I'm targeting YOU.

26 years ago. 18 since college. Any other small minded, predictable internet dick size comparison questions you need to ask?

Tell you what... Don't tell me what to do. I already know what your point is. You wanted Apple to be Microsoft, and claim your still right when they're not only still around, but sitting on a wad of cash that can allow them to swallow Dell in one bite (in your words... THAT'S A FACT!). The last thing they ever needed to do is license their OS to others, which means it's good they didn't listen to you.

Don't tell me what to do.

Don't again.

[the other one]

28. Mac is over-rated

I have mac and windows machines.

The only thing mac beats windows on is price. Mac costs lots more. A thousand dollar hp with a thousand in upgrades will beat a two thousand dollar mac.

Maybe it was different in the past, but no more/

[Cetacea]

32. "Worst system for low income people". Me

[alfredo]

33. Macs start at $599.

[struggle4progress]

40. That's the mini: you still need to buy a keyboard, mouse, and display

Figure at least another $150 if you don't have those; if you have them, you'll need to spring another $20 or so for a vga adaptor, since apple is asinine about connectors

I like the mini: it's a nice machine. But anyone who's doesn't want to lay out $600-$750 for a machine has cheaper options

[alfredo]

51. Mine came with a VGA adaptor. I had a keyboard, mouse and monitor.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. So why is my MS Word always

crashing on my intel Mac?
Not happy. Bought it in 2007, 1st Leopard issue.

[Eric Condon]

36. The thing about the Mac/PC wars is that PC users don't care.

I don't really think there are that many "Windows evangelists." People like me who use Windows really just do it because it's cheaper. We don't ascribe any kind of social significance to it. Mac users, on the other hand, seem to view the Mac/PC divide as part of the culture wars. It's really not that big of a deal though.

When I can get a Mac for cheaper than a comparable PC, I'll get a Mac. That's all there is to it.

[Bravo Zulu]

41. Amen brother!

[Deja Q]

50. So why did you respond?

You cared enough to.

I mean, I could say "I don't care about politics" but then still being on political forums... doesn't exactly add up, now does it?

[Eric Condon]

56. For the benefit of Mac users, to shed some light on most PC users' mentality.

I think a lot of Mac users seem to actually get frustrated by how slow society is to switch to an all-Mac environment. I figured I would just remind them that most PC users aren't clinging to their obsolete technology out of desperation. We just aren't particular, and want something that is cheap more than we want something that is higher-performance.

There seems to be a lot of debate in this thread about why people use what they use, and I figured I'd shed some light on it, at least from my perspective. I don't know why it seemed to touch such a nerve.

[LanternWaste]

66. I think I agree.

I think I agree.

To me, the whole thing is little more than an updated version of the Coke v. Pepsi cola wars in the 1980's. I'll drink either one, but I knew a lot of people who would wage a verbal jihad against anyone who thought one or the other had a superior taste.

At the end of the day, some people prefer like Coke, some people still prefer Pepsi, and I imagine most simply don't care one way or the other as long as the thirst is slaked.

ed: sp

[SteelPenguin]

74. Most don't care

There are a fairly balanced number of Mac and Windows Warriors at each others throats. It's definitely not all on the Apple side, though I agree...most people are probably totally ignorant of the differences. Heck most people probably don't even understand that Mac and Windows run different operating systems, or know what an operating system is. They ask "Can I get internet on this? How much is it? How much is one with a bigger screen?"

Whether they're some Mac design cultist though, or a Windows Certified IT Tech Support Geek...They scream and shout and flail, and most normal people just stare at them, confused about whether they should take a side, and either walk away from the people saying words they don't know, or take offense at one of them saying "All PC users are morons" or "All Mac users are idiots" or some such drivel.

The cultists on both sides compare how long they've used different systems. Sometimes They've been with Apple for 30 years, sometimes for 30 days after a life with Microsoft. Sometimes it's the other way around.

They compare specs and prices, and mock each others reasons for liking different products.

It's pathetic really.

There are distinct benefits and drawbacks from Windows, Apple, and even Linux. It's one reason that I have all three systems running here in my office, and why I've recommended both Apple and Windows to different people over the years, for different reasons. Anyone who takes a hard anti-line of one over the other or mocks specific benefits because they're unimportant to THEM, is a bigger idiot and really needs some perspective and to relax.

I'd like to believe that for every Apple or Windows Fanboy out there, there's at least one or two of people like me. People who have a Macbook, as well as a Tower running Windows they built with their own two hands from parts they bought on Newegg or at Microcenter, and an old Frankenstein system made with parts from old systems, running a Linux server.

And they like the benefits of all of them, even though they're aware of the drawbacks of each.

[RedCappedBandit]

39. Apple is good at marketing?

Gee.. really?

I'll continue to build my own systems which are superior yet cheaper, regardless of whatever pompous ad campaign they come up with next.

[Deja Q]

52. As long as you put windows on them, it's not superior.

You do mean "faster hardware".

But that in of itself is not superior.

Like Windows users would know the difference anyway; Microsoft caters to the technologically obtuse (because they can get away with swindling 'em)...

Especially when other anti-Mac dudes whine "They use the same hardware, waaaaaaaaaaaah".

The day you anti-Mac fanboys get consistent on a tactic is when I'll take it seriously.

[RedCappedBandit]

76. I don't recall mentioning anything about my preference in operating system.

I'm not "anti-mac"
I have a mac

I don't like it very much, and it was clearly overpriced. It is also *the* least reliable computer I have had since I started making my own.



And yes, I do mean faster hardware; when I make it myself, I can make a faster computer at less of a cost. I *could* get the same hardware through apple, and it would bankrupt me.

Not sure I understand why you're responding to me with such a derogatory tone, and I have absolutely no idea where you come off saying that *Microsoft* is catering to the technologically obtuse.

[CBGLuthier]

42. Quality?

I see nothing here about quality of manufacturing or reliability of product my two problems with Apple Inc.

[Orsino]

68. Heh. And the only *product* being bragged on in the OP isn't a Mac. n/t

[Bravo Zulu]

45. Apple Gestapo: How Apple Hunts Down Leaks!

They call themselves the Worldwide Loyalty Team. Among some employees, they are known as the Apple Gestapo, a group of moles always spying in headquarters and stores, reporting directly to Jobs and Oppenheimer!
http://gizmodo.com/5427058/

[Deja Q]

49. Thankfully, Tiger Woods did not hawk Apple's gear. Why? Because the slogan would be

"Be fruitful and multiply the number of Apple products in your home!"


Tiger would just be thinking of prostitutes and other plastic, siliconed objects... like what's in Nike shoes.

[guitar man]

55. Mac is teh shit

You'll get no argument from me. I'm sitting here speaking into a voice recognition program on my iPhone and posting on this message board. How cool is that? :-)

[Egnever]

58. Android will blow iphones out inside of two years

mark my words and then apple will be back to its user base of suckers.

[guitar man]

59. Maybe

They have quite a way to go still before they do it. I'm hoping The competetion will spur development in the next generation of iPhones.

[Touchdown]

84. Android wil be #2 in two years. iPhone OS will still be #1.

Mark my words... Sucker!

[KansasVoter]

63. LOL....and still only 12% marketshare!

[Touchdown]

83. Up from 7% two years ago. Increase is increase.

Few established products triple their user base in 2 years, and I can't think of any 25 year old product that has.

[Statistical]

93. Except they have. Mac marketshare of computers is 9.4%

up from 8.6% a year ago.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/10/14/mac_sales_grow_11_8_as_apple_takes_9_4_u_s_market_share.html

Note the source before you claim anti-apple bias.

[Touchdown]

94. I'll keep that in mind if I ever claim anti-Apple bias.

BTW: nice rhetorical trick in the "Mac marketshare of computers" bit, and ignoring the 2 years I mentioned also helps your case in your never ending quest of an internet smackdown. I hope you got a stiffy from it.

[Statistical]

100. apple never tripled installed base in 2 years on "an established product"

So you post was just nonesense.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/mac-market-share.ars

These are Q4 numbers instead.

By browser share apple grew from 6% to 9.5% thats a 50% gain not 300%.

By hardware shipments it grew from 5.1% to 8.0% once again 50% gain not 300%.

Still even those numbers are somewhat inflated because they are US sales.

Worldwide Mac marketshare is growing but at much lower rate.
Q4-2006 2.6%
Q4-2008 3.4%

So Apple picked up 1.2% of worldwide market of the course of 2 years. A massive 0.6% gain annually. Even if that was sustainable on a long term trend it would be 20-30 years before Apple has substantial (20%+) marketshare.

[Touchdown]

104. I misspoke on that. My apologies.

What I menat to say is that they tripled their sales between 2007 and 2009. This is according to news reports from a couple of months ago.

And... ultimately market share means little when the company's net worth and cash on hand is almost equal to Microsoft and more than the worth of Dell, HP and Acer combined. If you want power, just the mere rumors of Apple readying a tablet computer has gotten others like Asus to announce their own tablet media slates. Apple has yet to announce anything. Just the mere rumors that they are is enough to drive others into action. That is real market power.

[Touchdown]

96. Your link showed quarterly sales numbers, not installed base.

I'm noting your source, and also noting you are talking about market share in a single quarter as if it's market share of an installed base.

Apple topped 9% in 2008.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10/16/macintosh-share-of-the-us-market-tops-9/

Note the source before you decide to play another "question the intelligence" internet dick size game with me.

[Statistical]

99. Thanks for proving the point. Your link also shows QUARTERLY SALES.

So Apple % of quarterly sales was about 9% in Q3 2008 and it was about 9% in Q3 2009.

It fluctuates by quarter but generally Apple has been in the 8.5% to 9.5% range for 2.5 years now.

Installed based will be even lower? Why?/How?
It is simple. On average a computer lasts 5-7 years.
5-7 years ago Apple quarterly sales were lower.

As an example (numbers made up by me) lets say Apples sales market share of computers is
2002 - 4%
2003 - 4%
2004 - 5%
2005 - 5%
2006 - 6%
2007 - 7%
2008 - 9%
2009 - 9%

So the % of installed based isn't going to be 15% or 20% if in last 7 years Apple sold between 4% and 9% of all computers sold.

[Touchdown]

105. So imagine how much they would be selling in a good economy.

So far, too expensive for usefulness Apple is defying this recession. The others are selling a ton of low to no margin netbooks, and even Acers are sold at a loss.

I doubt if market share is the most important thing to Apple. 4% was enough to keep them alive back then, and they're the most powerful company in personal electronics & computers with only 10.5%, or even 9% in personal computers today. IF they ever gain back the 20% they had in the 80s, they would be unstoppable.

[Statistical]

126. Never said Apple isn't a force to be reckoned with. I simply disputed the marketshare numbers.

I doubt Apple will ever get to 20% not without cutting the margins back.

However if you cut your margins from 38% to 19% and in the process increase marketshare from 10% to 20% all you did is work twice as hard to get the same amount of profit. :)

[roseBudd]

67. And I got a 64 bit Dell Inspiron desktop w/5 GB RAM & 500GB HD for $440

and a Dell Inspiron laptop w/3 GB RAM & 360GB HD for $440

I actually have zero complaints about Vista

I also drive a 1995 Subaru Legacy wagon that is paid for.

[Crabby Appleton]

90. You're not spending enough money on stuff to be one of the cool kids.

[Elwood P Dowd]

92. Dell is run by hardcore republicans. That's why he is not one of the cool kids.

:puke:

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[David Zephyr]

81. I use both platforms (Apple & PC). Apple is a better product now.

I have no dog in the hunt because all of the computers at the companies I own are PC. At home, I have an iMac. I've used both platforms since the 1980's.

PC's long had advantages over Apple, primarily the availability of software.

Apple never had the viral troubles that Microsoft had, but...

Vista is a piece of shit. Microsoft ruined MS Word. And, it merits being said again, Vista is shit.

Steve Jobs really had a second act and I only wish now that all of the PC's I have sitting on desks at my businesses were from Apple.

[KillCapitalism]

82. It's not that Apple is so great, it's just that Microsoft fails so badly.

Microsoft doesn't exactly fail at everything, Windows 7 is definitely nice, and XP SP2 was pretty solid.

They fail miserably when it comes to product (especially hardware) development. They could be on par with, or best Apple if they produced their own PC's, a Zune that's better than the ipod, and a wireless device that can beat out the iphone.

Instead of this, MS drops most everything into software & they should move away from that in some respects. MS Office is fairly irrelevant anymore and should be dropped. Open office is a much better (and free) alternative. Hardware is where it's at & Apple recognized that, so that's why they're on top.

*Sigh* If only I could run Microsoft.

[Touchdown]

125. I use Macs, and am an Apple fan, but my XBox works just fine, and the games are good.

:shrug:

[Auggie]

86. They earned it. Totally. TBWA Chiat/Day too.

Nice work.

[sudopod]

98. Rah rah, brand loyalty?

What is your point? A goddamn computer company won some awards for making ads. Don't you feel a little weird cheering for Massive Corporation B over Massive Corporation A without even being asked? Is that somehow ennobling? Don't you feel a little bit used?

BRB, I'm posting in the big Burger King vs McDonald's thread. Whopparz 4EVAR!!!!1111

O_o

[Sultana]

109. Keep rocking, Apple

....love, Sultana :*

[mddem9850]

112. Interesting

[Norrin Radd]

113. Assembling one's own computer is superior, and cheaper.

[ET Awful]

121. Bingo. Regardless of which OS you use, it's cheaper to build your own.

I mean . . .

I have the following:

i7 920 (2.6 GHZ quad core overclocked to 3.4 GHZ with 8 threads basically for those who don't know, the OS will see this as 8 cores for most purposes)
12 GB of RAM
over 3 TB of hard drive space
dual GTX 275 video cards in SLI
Creative X-Fi Titanium
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
a few other things . . .



All for around $1,400.

So, where's the off the shelf system (Mac or PC) that can provide the same level of performance for that price?

Of course, I also have a ton of games that wouldn't run on a Mac without installing Windows or some sort of emulation software first.

As I said, Mac makes a great machine . . . but for the vast majority of users, it won't suit their needs.

[whistler162]

114. The best award(s) money can buy!