Maricopa officer who swiped the lawyer's papers when her back was turned is going to jail

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/12/14/nr.sanchez.maricopa.co.officer.cnn

A detention officer seen taking lawyer's documents in court goes to jail for not apologizing for what he did.

http://www.kpho.com/news/21778683/detail.html

County Detention Officer Reports To Jail

POSTED: 6:11 pm MST December 1, 2009
UPDATED: 6:40 am MST December 2, 2009

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PHOENIX -- Maricopa County Detention Officer Adam Stoddard turned himself in to jail Tuesday night, according to his attorney Thomas Liddy.

Stoddard was ordered to jail for disobeying a judge's order to apologize for taking an attorney's papers. Courtroom surveillance video showed Stoddard removing handwritten notes from attorney Joanne Cuccia’s files during a hearing.

Stoddard claimed he did it for security reasons, but a judge agreed with Cuccia's claim that it made her look like she was smuggling contraband into the courtroom and ruined her reputation.

The judge ordered Stoddard to publicly apologize to Cuccia Monday night, but when he refused, he was ordered to go to jail for defying the judge’s order.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who oversees detention officers, confirmed Stoddard self-surrendered Tuesday evening, but refused to provide details for security reasons.

Liddy said due to a mistake by the court, the jail was not able to book Stoddard.

[alstephenson]

1. He was in jail, now he's out.

on appeal.

[galileoreloaded]

2. And then the deputies and baliffs never showed up for work the next day.

a defacto sick out.

Kind of a wierd juxtaposition of solidarity, IMO.

[vadawg]

4. i dont blame them for striking as it were, the judge ordering a deputy to apoligise

when as it looks from the article he was checking the papers for contraband, now whether his reason is legit and he was checking for contraband is true or not i dont know, but its definetely part of his duties to enforce the safety of the court...

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blueamy66]

7. Um, he's one of Arpaio's deputies....

he's crooked man...crooked....

But, thanks for the good laugh.

[DoctorMyEyes]

8. You need to see the video

He sneaks over to her papers while her back is turned, addressing the judge, and sneaks away with one of her papers. Definitely not legit. No way - no how.

[EFerrari]

11. He was reading one of her papers behind her back

while she was talking to the judge. What kind of contraband was he skimming for?

In all the cases I translated in court, I've never seen ANYTHING like that. It was unreal.

[alstephenson]

12. Oh, please. Have you seen the video?

"Contraband"??? I don't think so. This is consistent with other actions of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office - they think they are above the law somehow.

[jberryhill]

15. Watch the Video Tape

Methinks you need to see what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIoyJ-LyAaE

If he wants to inspect an item in the court being carried by an attorney, he can ask for the item.

He took out a paper with notes, and gave it to another officer for photocopying, while the attorney wasn't looking.

Explain how copying a document from an attorney's file has any relationship to securing the court room.

[Lochloosa]

16. You should watch the video before posting this BS

[blondeatlast]

17. Copy and paste *Arpaio* into Google. Have a good week's education, then

come back to us.

He and his cronies (including the county attorney) are crookeder than Lombard Street.

[blondeatlast]

18. I'm in the legal field in Maricopa County. No way in HELL could any contraband get all the way

into the courtroom, no way in hell. The security checkpoints are manned by Maricopa deputies--are you saying the Maricopa brotherhood of the badge let their own down?

Too. Stupid. For. Words.

[vadawg]

20. funnily enough i too work in the system and contraband finds its way into all facilities all the

time, and contraband does not just include weapons and illicit drugs, funnily just a few days ago we had a lawyer pass an inmate family pictures during a pro visit, fortunately during a routine pat search between the pro visit post and his pod it was discovered. Also names and info on witnesses can be considered contraband in some cases, and the fact that the deputy is only being jailed for refusing to apoligise and not for some other imaginary crime says a lot, also the fact that his local is supporting him and blue flu seems to be in effect tells us that the union higher ups also support what he did. Now to what he did, we dont know what he thought he saw but in my court if i see anything i thing is squirrely then i can look at it, if a lawyer dosent want to show me then they leave the courtroom until the judge sees them and decides to readmit them. Without looking at the SOP's for this county we wont know if the deputy was working within the rules of the courthouse...

[blondeatlast]

22. what part of they are ALL Maricopa Cty deputies did you miss? nt

[vadawg]

24. never missed any part of it, wouldnt matter what county it is, no union is going to stand by and le

let the judge force a deputy to apoligise for this. As long as the deputy can articulate a valid reason for what he did then the union will support the deputy and so will the rest of the force... Also as i have stated contraband always finds its way into every jail and prison, its a fact of life for all who work and reside there...

[jberryhill]

33. "let the judge"

"Let" the judge?

You have a tenuous grasp of the nature and functions of a court, and the deputies role in providing security in which the court operates.

Your understanding seems to be upside down as to whom is subject to what authority here.

[vadawg]

38. No i understand it correctly, the judge runs the procedure of the court

but anything to do with the safety and security of the courtroom is the deputy's call, not the judge. If i feel that there is something going down in my courtroom then i would be totally failing in my duty not to relpy tot he situation with or without the judges go ahead.

[blondeatlast]

39. So you work in courtrooms? Yikes. nt

[Leftist Agitator]

25. You are one sick son of a bitch.

Confiscating FAMILY PICTURES from an inmate? I don't give a flying fuck if it is against your facility's policy, you have to be a cold-hearted motherfucker to take pictures of a person's family from them when they have no other connection to them.

Fuck you.

[vadawg]

27. right back at you, its still contraband and the family can mail them in to the inmate

i guess we should also allow birthday cakes and anything else families want the lawyer to give to the inmate. You do realise that there are reasons that nothing comes in other than through the official way, you would be amazed at the number of weapons and illicit materials that turn up in cell blocks...

[jberryhill]

31. This case has already been adjudicated

The deputy is in contempt.

Are the judges still authoritative in Maricopa County?

You are acting as though we don't know what happened until the facts are all in.

Catch up - judgment has been rendered here.

[vadawg]

35. okay so i guess we are not allowed to disagree with judges anymore

thats nice to know, and all thats been adjuducated is that the judge thinks the deputy should apoligise, the deputy and his union dont, and if he was acting in good faith then he shouldnt. It will be interesting to see were the union goes with this...

[blondeatlast]

40. Well, finally you are right--you AREN'T allowed to publicly disagree with the judge,

especially in her courtroom.

Sheriff Joe would just LURVE you on a stick. :wow:

[vadawg]

46. yup but you sure as hell are not going to apoligise if you feel that you were doing the right thing

personally i dont know what i would do in this situation but i have run afoul of a judge whilst performing my duties and i simply didnt protect that judge again... This deputy feels he acted in good faith and it looks as though his union supports him,

[CBGLuthier]

100. for someone who works in courts you sure are fucking dense about judges

If you commit an "offense" in a judge's courtroom she fucking owns you buddy. You apologize or you sit in jail. But since the jail itself is run by criminals we have anarchy there.

[blueamy66]

108. Wow.

So, if you choose to not protect a judge, do you still collect your paycheck?

[vadawg]

110. ah the point may not have gone over right, what i mean is i wasnt on their detail any more

when you get personality clashes its not conducive to stay on the team so to speak so you move to another squad..

[blueamy66]

121. I wish that I could just "move to another squad"

when I have a "personality clash".

What a pampered job you have.

Keep posting though...you're making ALOT of people dislike LEOs even more.

[Blackhatjack]

44. The Union does not have any legal authority. The Judge does. Case closed.

You can wait to see what the Union does, but it is not going to make any difference.

[vadawg]

51. sure as hell does, the lawyers from the union are pretty good

the guys appealing it to another judge, if he shows he acted in good faith the other judge might reconsider especially if the blue flu effects the original judges courtroom as who wants to work a court where the judge is, so technically the case isnt closed its on appeal. Will be interesting to see what the final disposition of all this is and if any deputy will want to work in that courtroom after this...

[jberryhill]

56. The appellate standard is abuse of discretion, not a re-examination of the facts

You have absolutely no idea how appeals work or what is the relevant legal standard here.

"especially if the blue flu effects the original judges courtroom"

Are you shitting me? The decision should be based on whether or not the deputies are going to essentially extort the court, instead of based on fundamental legal principles?

[vadawg]

58. yup in the end that will play a part and you know it.. not that i like it

but thats the way the blue flu and other strikes have worked for years. Would you want to work in a courtroom where you acted apon what you saw as something not right and in good faith only to have the judge jail you afterwards, hell no, i dont know any deputy who would want that courtroom and most would avoid it like the plague... thats just the facts of life...

[blueamy66]

109. the blue flu?

So, you advocate tax payers paying a deputy's salary cause that deputy thinks that they are taking a stand by calling in sick when they really aren't?

That's all kinds of fucked up.

[vadawg]

111. i guess you dont support any strikes then, cause thats all this is a strike by any other name...

[blueamy66]

119. No, I don't support stikes

by able bodied employees on the taxpayers' dime.

If you don't like the pay or the job, don't apply.

You're a disgrace to LEOs nationwide.

[jberryhill]

50. It sure is nice to know....

I'd like to see the deputies "disagree" that a convict should be sent to jail, and walk him out of the courtroom after a verdict.

Oh, they only get to "disagree" when it is about them? Because, uh, they are not subject to the law?

[vadawg]

53. actually the sheriffs dept can disagree with a judge and walk an inmate out

i cant remember the legal term but one side effect is matrixing where the sheriff releases people early before they have finished their sentence in order to make room, now i dont know what states have things like this on their books but im pretty sure its widespread... and in this case the guy turned up to go to jail and his case is being appealed so hes out as many others are who are appealing cases...

[Joe Chi Minh]

64. At last! You're big-shots in you own eyes, but compared to the judge's authority,

you are no more than flies to be swatted, myrmidons, not smart enough to be trusted to make any kind of responsible decision without direct orders. I mean specifically you Arpaio sympathisers among the police, union, etc.

And not only the judge. You'd better start showing some respect for the lawyers too. Their children will have more authority than you in their first job in the adult world. You've grown too big for your boots and it looks like you're heading for a fall.

The US is a place where people are not normally judged for their lack of education, because many of the more educated people will often recognise that a less educated person might be more than their equal in many of the more important aspects of life. However, respect is a two-way street, and in this world the more worldly-wise have the upper hand. Don't let your badge fool you into thinking that you have it.

[vadawg]

66. lol you my friend have spent to much time at the grassmarket...

granted its okay once in a while to peruse the ladies but to much angasturie bitters has warped your jam tart mind... :)


hope you are well....

[Joe Chi Minh]

75. Thank you. And your good self, I trust...! You watch out for your job, though.

Don't go looking for medals for over-ruling any judges, or you'll soon be yet another statistic in the long list of the unemployed people, as will that other deputy.

[Taverner]

79. Yep - I seriously think the "Blue Gang" needs to be taken down a knotch

[blondeatlast]

92. FWIW, non-Maricopa County law enforcement loathes Sheriff Joe nad the fists

pretty much as much as the rest of us.

[Joe Chi Minh]

114. I'm notsurprised. Not all police are goons by any means. Just not

knowing who are goons, in the US, must be scary though. Particularly, if you are caught in possession of a brown skin.

[blondeatlast]

125. Yeah, that'as also true here in Phoenix, but our PD is VERY diverse and many of our

PD mucky mucks do have brown skin. The differences in the top-down attitude is obvious.

I'd rather be stopped by PD than the deputies any day of the week (not that the PD are the Sisters of Mercy, but still).

[CreekDog]

98. i have never ever seen you ever be convinced of a criticism of a police officer

in case anyone was wondering.

[vadawg]

101. then you are not looking hard enough, i just try to give someone on the jobs perspective to the witc

witch hunts that inevitably ensue when any post about LEO's is posted, hell even the ones where we are killed in the line of duty have the usual references to pigs etc.

[CreekDog]

102. tell us of one instance where you posted in agreement against a police officer

if you have, you have certainly done it so infrequently that it's darn near impossible to find.

[vadawg]

105. why should i your the one who made the statement that i never,

in the early days i would post on any threads about the popo, but i soon learned theres no point as most people who post on the threads have no clue about law enforcement and also have huge bees in their bunnets. So im sure if you go back you will find where i stated that the cop who was a rapist should fry etc.

[CreekDog]

106. Why should you? To demonstrate that you are capable of criticizing a police officer

something that everybody on this board thinks you are not capable of doing.

but hey, have it your way. :shrug:

[vadawg]

107. im not going to criticize just for the sake of it, in this situation all im saying is i dont know

what the deputy was seeing when he did what he did, so i am giving the perspective of someone who has been in a courtroom when bad stuff happens, and when i thought bad stuff was going to happen, i gave the opinion that i can see why he wouldnt apoligise as it may be the depts policy, i can see no one wanting to work with that judge as i wouldnt. Not sure what wlse there really is to write about this case, but if you bring me a case where a deputy was dealing in child porn or rape then ill condemn them for you okay... well my shift is over two days off, and i only got pepper sprayed twice today, but luckily no one was to badly hurt and we all get to home in one piece, all in all a good day. peace out to you....

[Jax]

77. Yep. You nailed it

I figured that out after this one's first post here.

All the same. Progressive or liberal my ass, transparent is the word.

:thumbsup:

Alyce

[Taverner]

78. Sick Son of a Bitch indeed

Hey, why don't you start whacking inmates with sticks for no reason? Wait - you guys already do that

[vadawg]

80. dude WTF, i can honestly say ive never hit anyone in the jail with a stick

pepper spray yes, in fact im covered in that crap right now due to a fight that just occured, thankfully not on my post so i sont have to do the paperwork that OC and blood entails.

[Taverner]

81. Apologies for the name calling, but it still strikes me as mean to take away pics

Since the idea of turning a photo into a shank seems highly unlikely

But yeah, my meanness was uncalled for

[vadawg]

82. believe it or not any paper can be made into a shank with enough patience

but when it comes to pics there are rules, ie none of kids that may be in suggestive poses, even if its your kids your cellmate who is a pedo might see it differently, no gang pics etc, but you would be surprised at what we do see, even had one guy receive his hit target in the jail as a picture of a group with a cross on the target. Real wierd some of the gang stuff we get so we dispose of any pics that even look at though they have hidden messages in them, as my old sgt used to say we only have 13 hours a shift to watch them but they wach us 24/7 looking for ways to smuggle crap in...

[Taverner]

84. Mythbusters proved that one wrong

The most they could make was a "one shot" crossbow and even then it had to be shot at the eye, from a perfect angle

[vadawg]

85. dude i hate to blast mythbusters but when you have 24/7 month after month you can do anything

we even had a guy hang himself using a toilet paper rope, a fucking toilet paper rope. though most often paper is used to fashion crude bludgeons, wet paper in a sock works pretty well, but usually we see paper fashioned into a handle for some sort of shiv with melted plastic as a favourite...

[Taverner]

88. If they can do "anything" why don't they escape?

But honestly, tell me how physically one can turn a 3x5 photo into a shank

[vadawg]

91. i cant post any pics that i have but this is a tiolet paper one from online

http://www.correctionsone.com/news/1843779-Alert-Toilet-paper-shank-found/

not sure how good it would be but this is an inhouse kinda publication for correctional facilities with some good lookoouts..

[vadawg]

93. lots of them try to escape, it all depends on the crime and time

and its the reason we use layered security, frinstance werer i am at the moment in max security, you would have to defeat 3 doors to even get to where my pod is, then you have an elevator that is controlled from a dofferent location, then three physical posts manned by deputies and then a further 3 air lock style door systems all manned, then you have the final door outside and the roving patrols to avoid.... in the movies it looks easy but its not, much easier to escape from court or in transit or the hospital...

[blondeatlast]

86. Science, pshaw! In a world where the deputy is in charge of the courtroom, anything is possible. nt

[vadawg]

90. not sure if its the same thing, we had a guy use a tiolet roll tube and a rubber glove

and a coin to put holes in a tin can, the inmate was giving us intell and it was so obvious once he showed us it but none of us had even thought about it... its always that way though the inmates come up with stuff long before we would ever figure it out, thank god for CI's

[Butch350]

26. What. Was the paper he took some form of compressed weed?

What type of contraband might it be?

[vadawg]

29. as i said i got no idea what the deputy was thinking, but its not the judges place to force him to a

apoligise if he was acting in good faith, and thats why the union and his fellow deputies are doing the blue flu. believe it or not we have to wear gloves when handling incoming mail due to having deputies in the past poisoned with lsd laced into the paper....

[jberryhill]

36. Absolute Malarkey

It is a judge's job to render judgments.

This notion that the county employees are above the law is pretty weird.

[blondeatlast]

37. "...it's not the judges "place?" You REALLY said that?

:wow:

[jberryhill]

41. Pretty wild eh?

He thinks they are a law unto themselves.

[vadawg]

42. yep the judge can tell a deputy to apoligise and hold him in contempt

but the union will never stand by and let it happen without having blue flu. now tell me would you apoligise if the judge told you to apoligise to someone that you feel you had not wronged or would you stand for your principles, im just wondering if you would go to jail for what you believed you did right..

[jberryhill]

47. We have judges to determine who is right and wrong here

We also have law enforcement to enforce the law.

So, when a judge issues a guilty verdict, the deputies can say, "we don't think he was" and can take the convict outside and let him go?

Bull.

[vadawg]

55. actually if you look up the thread there are laws that allow the sheriff to vacate the sentence

not sure how many states have the laws but i know that a lot of jurisdictions use them for matrixing the prison population, that is releasing inmates from a jail term early.... on edit vacate teh sentence is the wrong word in this situation, but you get the idea...

[Hissyspit]

49. He was not acting in good faith.

It was a ridiculous authoritarian act, and that county is a cesspool.

[vadawg]

59. so i guess that anyone who works in a cesspool county is corrupt regardless

i guess that means the judge is corrupt and the lawyer as well... as i said i dont know what he thought he saw and it would be interesting to get all the details...

[jberryhill]

60. All the details are out, and you are acting like a buffoon

These were hand-written notes constituting a privileged communication. The deputy sent them out for photo-copying. There was already a hearing on what went down, but you seemingly don't seem to understand that we have all of the details, because you want to pretend that courts are run by flunkies with badges.

[vadawg]

63. lol nope what im saying is i wonder what the back story here is

im wondering what he thought he saw, why he refused to apoligise if he didnt think he acted in good faith, or was it the union who told him not to, there is much more to this story than we are seeing, im interested in seeing what fallout will come from this, and im also educating people on the security protocols of a courtroom for some seem to believe that the security is the job of the judge and not the sheriffs dept...

[wolfgangmo]

118. Dawg - I agree with some of what you said but not other points.

Let me explain.

I agree with you. I have worked maximum security so I know what you are talking about and your points on security are very well taken and absolutely on point. To those of you making non factually based (nee: ignorant) statements regarding security and contraband, unless you have worked max security then you really don't know just how far some of these people, their gangs/families or the people they or their gang/families will go to game the system. Searching for and evaluating contraband is just smart for the safety of the working class people working in the facility as well as the 90% of prisoners who just want to serve their time and get the hell out in one piece.

Having said that, I disagree with you. A court room is as close to a monarchy as we have in America (arguments about corporate control of our public institutions aside) and if that judge wants that deputy to apologies then he/she damn well better do just that. The courtroom is where the law is adjudicated and a judge MUST be able to operate in a manner consistant with that judges interpretation of the law.

Any judge who is swayed by blue flu should not be on the bench. And keep in mind that we are talking about one of Sheriff Joe's toadies - I can't think of a more corrupt, unconstitutional operation than his.

[Hissyspit]

43. Yes. Defend the office of the horrifically corrupt sheriff of Maricopa County.

And the deputy's un-Constitutional behavior (I've seen the video multiple times.)

If your intention is to lose any and all credibility.

[blondeatlast]

48. There's nothing for va to lose at this point, if you ask me. "It's not the judge's "place"?

Un-friggin-believable that that one still holds a job in law "enforcement." .

[Hissyspit]

52. I was being subtle. :-)

Trying not to break forum rules.

[vadawg]

57. why not, if you believe someting then defend it, as this deputy seems to be doing

all im doing is saying that i dont know what his reason was for doing what he did, but his union seems to be backing him... seems wierd to be even having to defend his union on DU... plus im not defending any individual department, im just giving the viewpoint of someone who is is in the courtroom a lot..

[ljm2002]

54. Total BS!

Did you see the video? He waited until her back was turned, ambled over there, flipped through a couple of things, then called over another officer to make a copy of one of the pages. Contraband? Puhleeze. Unless you consider papers to be contraband, which would be an odd standard for a lawyer during a court appearance, since they live and breathe papers in court cases.

[Vinnie From Indy]

62. Are you serious?

How in the world is a piece of paper contraband?

[rd_kent]

99. A court baliff has NO REASON WHATSOEVER to touch a lawyers belongings or papers.

None. zip. zero. nada.

And that video shows that he was reading the papers first then decided to pick them up. WHo the fuck does he think he is? If a baliff did that to my attourney, I would file for a mistrial or acquittal.....

[verdalaven]

104. The video shows him sneaking one of the papers

handing it off to one of his co-workers, who photocopied it then returns the original to the lawyer's folder.....

He took it because he thought he saw a confession on the paper. If the perp did confess, he did so to his lawyer (privileged)and the way in which it was obtained would have rendered it worthless to the prosecution.

If this guy wants to be a cop, maybe he should be a cop. He isn't. He is in that courtroom to keep the peace. Not gather evidence for the prosecution.

[ensho]

3. Sanchez, 3 pm, CNN has been on this story and probably will

report on it today.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. He did not go to jail, it says.

"Liddy said due to a mistake by the court, the jail was not able to book Stoddard."

And he was not ordered to jail for stealing the papers,
he was found in contempt for not apologizing.
Big difference.

[alstephenson]

13. The article is dated. He DID go to jail, and now he's out on appeal.

[Bombero1956]

9. when will we see him in pink underwear

Saw the sheriff on Nightline last night and it seems like he's willing to turn his back on his officer's misconduct so long as it serves his agenda of vilifying Latinos.

[alstephenson]

14. Absolutely. Is he not a disgusting POS?

Oh, and the deputy was NOT put in tent city and did NOT wear pink underwear.

[conscious evolution]

10. An apology?

This guy violates the defendants civil rights and he is only asked to apologize?For inpugning the lawyers reputation?
WTF?

[Blackhatjack]

19. A couple of points... Attorneys are Officers of the Court & this violated attorney/client privilege

The attorney in this case had higher standing than the bailiff(officer) since the Attorney is an Officer of the Court.

Editted: After reviewing the videotape there was so much wrong going on here that it is laughable. The courtroom bailiff read the attorney's file, removed a document, passed it to another officer to be copied, and secretly laid the document back on counsel's table without informing the attorney or the court --even though the judge and counsel on both sides were trying to find out what was taken.

The Judge did not show any significant concern for the defendant's rights, attorney client privilege, theft of property, etc. ANd wanted to put off discussion to another day --possibly weeks later. Just amazing.

The idea that a Bailiff(officer) could escape judicial punishment by 'giving a public apology' is just bizarre.

And if the local Sheriff in this district failed to book a deputy on a charge of contempt, it would not be long before the Sheriff would be looking at charges himself(herself).

[blondeatlast]

21. Our county attorney is on cahoots with the Sheriff and try as he might, and oh, he does,

our State Attorney General can't touch him.

Arpaio is unwaveringly popular here; actually pressing him to do something is taking your political life in your hands--and he's messed up a few ordinary lives around here just for criticizong him.

I sincerely (really) worry about posting criticism here--he's played dirty to ordinary citizens.

He's damn near untouchable, I'm afraid.

[vadawg]

23. once again it all depends on the situation, if a deputy feels that there is any danger then his

authority overrides everyones in the courtroom, judge included, now i dont see any danger here but without actually knowing the particulars of what the case was about or what the deputy believed he saw we are just guessing. As i have stated we dont know what happened but theres no way a judge is going to make a deputy apoligise and not have the union come down against the judge...

[Blackhatjack]

28. That is ridiculous. The judge has ultimate authority in that courtroom ...

... and the deputy does not get to roam around the courtroom and ready defense counsel's file.

That piece of paper did not threaten anyone. And let us assume the deputy had a legitimate concern, the Judge was right there to ask for the piece of paper.

The union should side with the defense attorney since there are minimum levels of professionalism that they promote.

THis deputy needs to be behind bars. THis is not Russia or Saudi Arabia. THere are still constitutional rights that protect the attorney/client relationship.

[vadawg]

30. nope you are wrong, when it comes to the safety and security of the courtroom

the deputies control the courtroom, and any judge who has brains knows when he gets his cue from his court deputy to quickly vacate the bench. I dont ask the judges permission to remove people from the courtroom if i feel there is a threat and as you said we dont know what the deputy thought he saw. Im still wondering what crime apart from the contempt that the deputy is supposed to have committed...

[Blackhatjack]

32. I've seen a deputy taken into custody because he violated the courtroom judge's order...

But then again maybe they don't follow actual laws in Arizona.

There is no explaining away what the deputy did here --he knew it was wrong when he did it, and now is trying to play the victim of politics.

Even the US Supreme Court, with a right leaning majority, would not uphold this deputy's conduct.

And this idea that a deputy can exercise his/her independent judgment to go over and ramble through a defense attorney's file does not exist. He cannot claim the paper was open and obvious since he opened the file and pulled it out.

[blondeatlast]

45. And it's very obvious he knew EXACTLY what he wanted, how he looks around first,

then casually moves behind the defense bench, then calls the other guy over--they knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

And that paper, as you say, is privileged.

[vadawg]

61. yup and ive seen the officers being jailed by the judge in a court

but it all comes down to what he actually is claiming he saw and whether it was a good faith mistake on his part, thats the thing that gets me. All im saying is that should he apoligise if he believes his actions were for the safety and security of the facility and all in it. He dosent believe he did anyting wrong and his union supports him.. and yes if you come into my courtroom you are subject to a search and all your possessions are liable to a search also, not that im going to search everyone but its one of the conditions put upon entering any courthouse or facility.

[Blackhatjack]

67. I think I see your problem ... It is NOT 'your(my) courtroom' ....

A courtroom is a place where the rules of law apply and the parties appearing there are entitled to have those rules and procedures carried out by all the parties involved.

A deputy can and should be held in contempt, and taken into custody immediately, where that deputy violates the law.

An attorney can be taken into custody and held in contempt, even though they are officers of the Court if they violate those rules.

Even a Judge can be charged with failing to follow the rules in that courtroom, and sanctioned for doing or not doing what the law requires.

So it is not anyone's courtroom. A courtroom is a shared location where justice is done.

THis deputy obviously refused to acknowledge anyone else had authority over what went on in that courtroom. That was his mistake. ANd it should have cost him his job.

[vadawg]

70. and you obviously read into stuff to much, i use my courtroom the same as i say my block in the jail

or my cruiser, or my patrol area, or my radio, or my road or any of another million things we dailly refer to as my.. and im not arguing with you that a judge can hold a deputy in contempt, my problem is holding him in contempt for not apoligising to the attorney, for me this is the kicker, i dont disagree with you but no deputy is going to apoligise if they feel they were acting according to their duties and the union sure as hell will back you up for that.. all im doing is giving the perspective from inside the brown in the courtroom...

[Joe Chi Minh]

74. But this 'good faith' claim you're suggesting in defence of that deputy

is manifest fantasy; just like your surreally imaginative speculation that the document might have endangered the security of the court.

You say he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. His body language indicates otherwise. But even if he felt he was in the right, it doesn't make him a candidate for a medal. Some people are just pig-headed and arrogant - and back the losing side. That deputy probably felt invulnerable with Arpaio only being investigated at the moment. But America is bigger than Arpaio. And bigger than Arizona.

[Stevenmarc]

34. Security reasons? Was she going to give the judge a paper cut?

[vadawg]

65. as i said i dont know what he thought he saw, but it wouldnt be the first time a lawyer

brought something they shouldnt into a courtroom or secure facility... hell we even make them leave all documents with staples in them outside during visits, its amazing the number of things that you would not think could be used a s either a weapon or in an escape.... but as i said i dont know what the deputy was thinking but his union seems to think he is in the right...

[Blackhatjack]

68. You are ignoring the fact that the Judge was right there for him to bring it to her attention

It was a sheet of paper, not a ticking time bomb.

All he had to do was ask the Judge to instruct counsel to disclose the paper to the Judge, and the Judge could have ruled upon it. BUT he did not do that. He appointed himself prosecutor, judge and jury in deciding an issue of great importance to the Court.

[vadawg]

73. in my courtroom when it comes to safety and security we dont have to ask the judge for permission

you got to realise that there are times when actions have to be taken real fast, as i said i dont know what he thought was happening, but he was held in contempt and sentenced to jail for not apoligising, im not sure what his counties SOP is but in my county we dont do apoligies without haveing supervisors notified and command notified due to liability issues. it sucks but thats what todays society has become..

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

69. your legal mind is astonishing

:eyes:

Keep on keepin' on, you brave patriot.

[Occulus]

71. This is the same one who defended shackling a woman in labor

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7117096&mesg_id=7120038

Sick, sick, sick.

[blondeatlast]

72. Maybe it's Orly Taitz paralegal? nt

[blueamy66]

112. So is his spelling and grammar skills.

;-)

[vadawg]

113. the last refuge of the idiot..

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

120. another brilliant analysis

Your mind is a steel trap, I tell you!

[blueamy66]

123. Hey,..

you spelled everything right in that post.

You go guy!

[Blackhatjack]

76. This idea of the 'Blue Flu' changing a Judge's mind about a decision he/she made is absurd...

Judge's don't make decisions based upon whether some deputy is going to get miffed by his decision, called his union rep, and possibly make the Judge vulnerable to attack because no deputy wants to work there.

Controlling law and legal procedures define the parameters within which ALL decisions are made by Judges. It would be an abdication of authority specifically conveyed to the presiding judge to allow a deputy and his union to influence his/her decision in a case like this, and if it did, the judge should be sanctioned for such conduct.

[vadawg]

83. yup i agree with you, i also know that no deputy will want to work that courtroom

thats what im saying, im not defending it i just know that i too wouldnt want to work with a judge who would jail me for not apoligising to an attorney, its that simple...

[Blackhatjack]

87. It was a slap on the wrist asking that the deputy apologize to the attorney...

... the judge was doing him a favor, and he let his ego get in the way.

[vadawg]

94. problem is that he may not be able to do so without opening himself up to liability

thats what im tryint to get at, our rules are that as long as we follow our SOP's and have good faith then the dept backs us, we are not allowed to apoligise even though sometimes you would like to but its the number one thing we all know, we apoligise then we accept the liability, we are told you keep your mouth closed and let the supervisors do the talking....

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

122. the deputy is a criminal

and belongs in jail like all criminals. No exceptions for your heroes, sycophant.

[Joe Chi Minh]

115. Unfortunately, if you're paid to do a job, you like it or lump it; you do it, or your sacked -

jointly or severally. Nobody can force you to want to do to work any court-room. It's a free country, in that regard.

[apocalypsehow]

89. I've read it through twice, and there's something very confusing about this entire story. For one

thing, I would think reading through a lawyer's work product by a law enforcement officer would be prejudicial to that lawyer's client, for one thing. Seems to me that is the real offense here.

In any event, somethings not adding up in this tale. :shrug:

[backscatter712]

95. Don't drop the soap, you subhuman fuck!

He's one of Arpaio's thugs - no redeeming features.

[rucky]

96. When is it Arpaio's turn to don the pink jumpsuit?

[Jax]

97. Another law breaking thug with a gun and a badge

rot in jail hell scum bag.

[seeinfweggos]

103. unable to book him? he needs some pink undies and green balogna pronto!

[annarbor]

116. Vadawg...

you are an embarassment to your profession.
Nothing in that video indicated that the defense attorney's documents posed a threat to anyone present in the courtroom. Your collegue looked guilty as hell, and should be happy to have gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist. He's obviously too dumb to realize that and would rather spend time in jail.

As for the "Blue Flu", try that shit up here in the north and there will be hundreds of people standing in line for your jobs; as there should be.

Again, perhaps you should reconsider your line of work...you're just not getting it.
p.s, I read your comments about the pregnant woman giving birth in shackles...how disturbing.

Ann Arbor

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

124. Vadawg is a great example of his profession

He kneels at the feet of authority figures and will make any excuse to justify the behavior of those in power. It is weak and pathetic.

[annarbor]

117. nt