How should Liberal/Progressive Senators vote on this POS?

[rucky]

Poll question: How should Liberal/Progressive Senators vote on this POS?

Nice corner to be backed into (again). Forced on the sidelines during a bulk of the negotiations. Idea after idea dismissed in favor of a series of compromises that have still not led us to 60 votes.

So when the time comes, should Progressives:

a) Vote down this piece of shit?

or

b) Hold their noses and let it pass?

One choice is governed by principles, but there's a blowback to it. If any liberal Senators vote this down, it won't be the GOP - or even Lieberman & the Blue Dogs - who will be seen as the people who "killed healthcare reform." Never mind what's fair or true or not - this is how it'll be twisted. The other problem is that however crappy this reform bill may be, there are people who really really suffering, and are in dire need of immediate help. This bill does a little something to address that. More ammo for the center if we ignore that, especially when they wheel out cancer boy as their spokesprop to show how uncaring the opposition to this racket is.

So you hold your nose and pass it, eh? Then what? It won't be long before millions of voters see a negative impact - or no impact at all - from this hard-fought battle. In the end, nobody but the insurance companies will be pleased about this bill. Who would want their name attached to this? It could be political poison to support it, and especially if progressives are blamed for killing the bill, the Republicans are going to look pretty sweet come next election.

So what's a Progressive senator to do? If you have another scenario, please post.

[mike_c]

1. defeat it....

Crash and burn, corporate health bill!

[emulatorloo]

2. Vote for it, then get PO Medicare Buy-in thru reconciliation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x57970

KOS DiARY:

http://bit.ly/6RKGCE

***HCR IS SOLVED!!! PASS THE REFORM BILL NOW-- RECONCILE A MEDICARE "BUY-IN" IN JANUARY***

The answer is simple and requires a 3-part strategy.

First, we pass the Lieberman-Weasel Bill now. Let's face it, we may want a public option, but this bill would still be meaningful. This bill is WAY more powerful than no bill at all. It improves the healthcare of millions of Americans.

Second, we use a Manager's Amendment, so that the bill can pass straight through the House without the delay of a Conference Committee. President Obama can sign this before the Christmas Break.

Third, as soon as the bill is signed into law, we insist that the Senate takes up a Medicare Buy-In Deficit Reduction Bill that will make it through the RP in one piece.

A medicare buy-in works perfectly with RP. First, it modifies an existing program. Second, it will reduce the deficit substantially, and is thus germane to the budget. Finally, it can be crafted in a way intended to survive the RP in one piece. We can even reduce the buy-in age to 50. This may be the WH strategy already. The key is for all of us to keep up the pressure for a medicare buy-in AFTER the Lieberman-Weasel bill passes. Then we will have the best of both worlds, and we can focus our attention to finding a new Chairman for Homeland Security.

[Lasher]

10. I was going to say vote against it and try again next year.

But I like your idea better.

[rucky]

11. Nice!

:thumbsup:

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. Do you really trust Spineless Harry Reid to do that?

If we had an ACTUAL Senate Majority Leader then reconciliation would be a good way to get an actual REFORM bill out of this despite all the damage (i.e. strip out anything that Lieberdouche, Baucus, and the rest of the tools like, and replace it with Ted Kennedy's 2007 Medicare for all bill)

That's what a real Senate Majority Leader would do. But I'm not sure Reid is capable of it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. vote for the carcass and then early next year get a new one

[polichick]

4. This is a chance for the progressive caucus to show that they will no longer...

...be taken for granted. Vote it down and start from scratch from a position of confidence and principle.

[BlueCaliDem]

8. And get nothing in the process while waiting for another 60 years.

If this bill goes down in flames, the American people, not as politically astute as you, won't vote for Democrats OR Progressives in the coming elections. Result? Palinites and GOPers rushing to the polls and beating any and all progressives, liberals, even the left-of-center independents.

Get ready for another multiple Repub government for another generation.

[polichick]

9. I predict the opposite (from what Dems in my town say) - pass this handout for...

...insurance companies and they won't show up at the polls.

[BlueCaliDem]

14. No matter how it's sliced and diced, if this bill fails, repubs WIN

That's how it will be touted in our corporate media that's already creating the perception that this watering down is all the Democrats' fault, not the obstructionists GOP that are demanding a 60-vote on everything. The American people will perceive it as the corporate media are sellin' it.

It will paint the Democrats and the President as weak if they can't even pass a single thing while in the majority, so why even bother voting?

And disillusioned Dems, progressives, and left-leaning independents staying home will open the way for Palinites and Glenda Beck fanatics to sweep repubs back into power.

Is that what people want? Another repub Pres and another repub controlled Congress? Because that's what they'll get.

[polichick]

15. Depends on what we do next. Pass single payer and Dems win big...

But corporations lose, which is why many of our leaders will only go there kicking and screaming.

[BlueCaliDem]

19. Congress is bought and paid for. Single-payer is a pipe dream

and Pres. Obama knew that from the git-go.

The only chance we had to have a real single-payer is for Congress to vote out the three words in the Medicare law: "65 and over". It's that simple.

They know it too, but oh noooo. They had to take this chitty path, get Americans all riled up for a public option, and then strip it into nothing more than a friggin corporate giveaway of 40 million new customers forced to buy their overpriced cap while laying the blame at Pres. Obama's feet after warning him, of course, not to mess with them or they'd take him down like they did First Lady Hilary Clinton's bill back in '94.

[polichick]

22. I'm not sure the prez actually wants singer payer. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

23. I'm pretty sure you're right since he never campaigned on it.

He campaigned on universal health care coverage, which is akin to that what the Netherlands have. He mentioned the Netherlands a few times in his campaign for the public option so that's what I'm basing this on.

[Sebastian Doyle]

16. The bill already failed

It became a worthless piece of shit the moment the public option was removed.

[BlueCaliDem]

20. Then you might be happy to know that the repubs will be back in power

come 2010 and 2012, if what you say is true.

[Sebastian Doyle]

21. Does it really make a difference?

Repukes or DLC'ers and BlueBalled Cowards. Not a nickel's worth of difference between them.

[BlueCaliDem]

24. With Majority "Leader" Harry Reid at the helm, nope, it doesn't. eom

[DJ13]

5. This bill has morphed into an insurance co. welfare program

And for a reason.

Much like the banks and their over leveraging that required a bailout, the insurers have pretty much tapped out the existing market for new customers due to their rates, so they want their own bailout because the writing is on the wall, without government coercion forcing new enrollees into health insurance the market will collapse from the high costs in the near future.

Im at the point where we would be better off in the long run by voting this pseudo reform down at this time, forcing a serious effort in the near future that will by necessity have to be a single payer system.

[BlueCaliDem]

6. Vote for it, and as emulaterloo says. eom

[mdmc]

7. This is a bill for the "gotta support the team" facepainters (Seinfelds David Puddy)

Let us have the status quo or real reform.

[sharesunited]

12. That's easy. Take out the mandate and pass the rest.

Then work on expansion of Medicare and proper scheduling and funding of Medicare reimbursement.

And add a battallion of a thousand Medicare fraud investigators.

[guitar man]

13. I'm torn

The idealistic, freak flag flying left winger in me says burn the damn thing and let the evil health insurance empire eat shit and die.

The desperate, working husband, father, provider that is struggling at a low salary and facing skyrocketing HC premiums says if there is a chance it will lower costs and ease the financial strangulation on my family, let it pass.

It's a real shit sandwich :(

[Greyhound]

17. Until Americans pull their heads out of their asses we're screwed.

Until Billy Bob and Mary Mouthbreather wake up and figure out who's raping them we might as well let the republiks rule. At least then, they'll know who to blame.

[rucky]

25. Kicking