Health Care Reform is DEAD.

[cynatnite]

No public option and no medicare expansion.

Anything else they come up with is NOT health care reform.

[dflprincess]

1. It's been dead for a long time - they never intended to give us access to health care

They finally reached a point where they couldn't pretend anymore. Though they picked a good moment - right before the holidays when everyone is busy.

[kirby]

2. It never was...

They attempted Health INSURANCE reform, not health care reform.

[BeFree]

3. Not true.

It is just in pre-natal ICU.

We can keep it alive. Will we?

The Health Care corporations attempted to abort it again, but this time birth has happened, HCR is breathing just not able to survive on its own yet. Not dead. Almost....

[closeupready]

4. Yup. That was the plan from Day One.

n/t

[valerief]

5. Yeah, but Health Care TAXATION is alive and well!

Mandatory insurance premiums are a form of taxation.

[Taverner]

6. Health Care Reform died a while ago. I'm pissed that Heatlh Insurance Reform is now dead

[sandnsea]

7. Subsidized private insurance was reform in 2004

When both Kerry and Dean proposed it. Why is it not reform now?

[laughingliberal]

8. I'd have to look at their proposal in detail. I doubt it resembled the mess they're trying to foist

on us now. But, if it did I would have opposed that, too.

[sandnsea]

10. Other than the mandates, yes it does

It very closely resembles what they're passing now.

[laughingliberal]

With all due respect, that is tantamount, IMHO, to guns are perfectly safe without the bullets nt

[sandnsea]

15. I oppose the mandates, has Dean?

He has supported the bill with the mandates, so it's not a relevant issue at this time. But to oppose the subsidized insurance and call it a give-away to big insurance; when it's the exact thing he proposed 5 years ago, well that's just hypocritical political games, from all of them who are doing it.

[laughingliberal]

21. Again, I'd need to see his proposal from 5 years ago. I am highly skeptical that this bill is the

exact thing he proposed 5 years ago. I'll look for information on that. Meanwhile, I'd welcome anything you have to substantiate that claim.

[closeupready]

9. Because Kerry and Dean say it's not.

That's why.

[sandnsea]

11. When? Where?

I haven't heard that. And if they did, it would be because a public option and mandate are much more than they were proposing then.

[closeupready]

13. Today.

Check LBN.

[sandnsea]

14. I don't see anything

Other than Dean's rant about kill the bill. I don't see him saying he didn't propose subsidized private insurance in 2004.

[closeupready]

16. Well, you are the only member on DU who can't see it.

n/t

[sandnsea]

18. Well give me a link

Show me where they both said they didn't propose subsidized insurance in 2004.

[closeupready]

19. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=102

[sandnsea]

20. A link to LBN?

:shrug:

I don't see anything in there where Kerry and Dean said they didn't propose subsidized private insurance in 2004.

[David Zephyr]

12. It is my hope that there will be a large contingent of progressives who will oppose any bill now.

Let's not allow them to have a prize that should be a crime: forcing people to buy "for profit" health care"

This is a wicked thing.

[damntexdem]

17. Unless Sen. Burris makes it clear that he will not vote for cloture.

That seems to be the only way to recover anything.