The Myth of the American Dream:

[Skidmore]

A Discussion on the Left.

I'll start.

It never existed but was a creation of corporate America to fuel consumerism. Now the myth is being killed and being replaced by dreams in other nations.

Proceed.

[villager]

1. But how ugly will the shattered "dreamers" turn, left in the ash heaps here?

n/t

[asdjrocky]

2. Hunter said it was dead a long time ago.

I think it was there for a brief generation. My father worked at the same job for 38 years, never missed a day of work, and he retired and worked as a day time bartender just to keep himself busy for ten more years. My mother didn't go to work until I was 15 and she did it just to have something to do.

They bought one house and I live in it today. It is paid off. They took two vacations a year, one a short one with them and one with my sister and I for a week or two. They went to the doctor and paid cash. The knew who their banker was and kept their credit clean.

This was in the late 50's, and the 60's and 70's. We weren't rich, in fact we were barely middle class, but it was a good life.

That life that existed for a short time in America is sadly gone.

[galileoreloaded]

12. Not to mention balanced on the back of developing nations....

this panacea of American wistfulness, completely bankrolled by wars, conflict and exploitation.

Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"

[Old Codger]

3. Yes

The Corporate States Of ?

[Goldstein1984]

4. Shortly after the American Revolution

Poor White citizens without property were rebellious. There was no real Middle Class at that time, so the Founders created one by allotting small bits of property and by creating government positions. The Middle Class was designed as a shield to protect the Ruling Class from the unpropertied poor masses. The Constitution was created to provide a strong central government and reduce the power of state interests.

Next...

[FiveGoodMen]

5. "The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable..."

"... to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

-- Frank Zappa

Our elected leaders have stopped even pretending to represent us.

I think we can all agree, now, that Frank was right.

[deutsey]

8. I thought of this quote immediately. n/t

[KansDem]

6. I posted this photo earlier this afternoon...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FSxWO_CG3oo/R9tF44BRqpI/AAAAAAAAAPM/l7WdvUy7qx0/s400/great+Despression-the+American+Way.gif
"It never existed but was a creation of corporate America to fuel consumerism."

[damntexdem]

7. The Dream of the American Myth.

It really did exist -- the myth that is. The dream is rather dead, but the myth lives on.

[gorfle]

9. The reality of my American Dream.

I failed out of college in 1990 or so. I got a job making $9/hour, was out on my own for about 2 years before took another job and moved back in with my Mom because I wasn't making it on my own - I was having to choose between dog food for the dog and food for me. I lived with my Mom for 6 years while working, made about $40K a year. Moved out and took another job and was there for 3 years, left that job making about $50K a year.

Throughout all this time I had been using the tuition reimbursement plans through my various employers to finish my degree.

I finished my degree and then took a new job making $80K a year. This year for the first time I have broken $100K.

We are house-poor, having bought more house than we should have, but all in all, I'm pretty happy with the American Dream as it has played out for us.

[BeFree]

15. Ah yes, well

We can tell that you were born white, to a mother who could afford you, that you are a male and never had to worry about being pregnant.

Yes, the dream really did exist for a select few Americans. Luck has a lot to do with it.

[gorfle]

17. Hard work almost always trumps luck.

It was not luck that got my college degree, it was 17 years of hard work and juggling full time jobs, family, and school.

Hard work almost always trumps luck.

It's really insulting to look back on how hard I worked to get where I am and to have someone say, "Well, you just got lucky!"

[Bucky]

22. Not entirely true.

My best friend and his family got more or less run out of Venezuela. They never had much money, but they worked their asses off and managed to build up a small business. Then a demagogue with more good intentions than common sense ran the economy into the toilet. They've had to start over from scratch here, including his parents in their late 50s losing all their life savings and risking what little they have left on making a go of it here in the US.

Bad luck and bad government managed to trump all their hard work back home. Hard work trumps luck in some countries, and luckily we live in one of them, but it's not like that everywhere.

[gorfle]

29. I assumed...

Since this thread is about the American Dream, I assumed we were talking about the United States of America.

I have no doubt that people can and do toil their lives away in many corners of the world without reaping any benefit from it.

[cap]

39. HAVING A MOMMY WHO COULD TAKE YOU IN AS AN ADULT MADE IT POSSIBLE

All colleges are subsidized by the government. Either you took advantage of student loans and Pell grants or you attended a college priced low enough for you to afford it.

My Dad did it the hard way .... High School dropout. Homeless during Great Depression. Drafted WWII. Got a GED. Took advantage of the GI bill and got a PhD.

he had a wife who supported him in college. He had the government who helped.

Both of you were supported by women and the government. This is not rugged individualism. You did not do it by yourselves.

[gorfle]

48. No doubt.

Both of you were supported by women and the government. This is not rugged individualism. You did not do it by yourselves.

No doubt, through I would chalk more of the success to my efforts and determination over 17 years than anything else. I did not use any student loans - as I said I took advantage of all of my employers' tuition reimbursement programs.

Regardless, my point is, the American Dream is still possible.

[cap]

53. you were still subsidized by taxpayers

tuition does not cover all the expense of a college education. The US Government pours tons of money into colleges paying for libraries, laboratories, equipment, research and development (think of grad school grants), etc. So do state governments. This is done for both public and private colleges.

Look at your alumni mailings.... they remind you of this fact CONSTANTLY when they are begging for alumni donations!


Most companies don't offer tuition reimbursement. Those that do tend to require it to be related to your particular job within the company. Not everyone works for companies that provide tuition reimbursement. Not everyone can get a job at a company that provides reimbursement.


The American Dream is doing it by yourself... rugged individualism... The Marlboro man isn't shown with a woman behind his back. If you didn't have a Mom, you'd be eating dog food.

Rugged individualism was my Dad... he didn't go to home to Mom....in the depths of the Great Depression, he went door to door asking for work. Dug ditches in the frozen earth... On cold nights, he got picked up by the cops and they let him sleep in jail -- back in those days, they did stuff for the homeless. Slept in flophouses. Not every one's family is that supportive.
Probably the closest thing to Rugged individualism was my grand dad... drafted into the Russian army, deserted, got tossed on a chain gang in Siberia, escaped, went to Germany, worked in a factory, came to the US, worked in a factory, and bought a farm that is now worth $3.6 million. Although he got married and had the help of a wife.

although like I said, even Dad was supported by the American tax payer. I think he did get his GED by himself. He did college by himself ... if by yourself, you don't count a government subsidy of the GI bill and taxpayer support of higher ed. Married Mom in graduate school and got help to get through it.

There are a lot of people who will never go to college who paid for those fine facilities that you attended and through tax payer

Not possible to do by yourself... you need someone behind you like your mom or the American taxpayer. You can improve yourself but you need someone's help.

Besides, you really aren't making that much money... frankly, your salary is middle class...comfortable but no real bragging rights.. not that much to be overly proud of...doctors, lawyers, mid-level managers in Fortune 500 countries make a lot more... don't take it personally, these are just the facts of life...in fact,
there are a bunch of people on this board who make more than you do ... success is relative.

[gorfle]

56. Yup, just like everyone else.

Not possible to do by yourself... you need someone behind you like your mom or the American taxpayer. You can improve yourself but you need someone's help.


Despite your attempts to poo-poo what I have achieved in my life, the fact is I have not availed myself to much of anything that anyone else in America can't also avail themselves to also.

Most companies don't offer tuition reimbursement.

Maybe not, but every company I have ever worked for did, from companies with 30 employees up to tens of thousands.

Walmart does.

Besides, you really aren't making that much money... frankly, your salary is middle class...comfortable but no real bragging rights.. not that much to be overly proud of...doctors, lawyers, mid-level managers in Fortune 500 countries make a lot more... don't take it personally, these are just the facts of life...in fact,
there are a bunch of people on this board who make more than you do ... success is relative.

According to Wikipedia, only about 10% of Americans are in my income bracket, and I am in the top 16% of income.

I'm doing better than my parents did, and better than I thought I would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

[cap]

65. as I said, success is relative

most of my neighborhood makes over 100K and we think of ourselves as nothing special... just comfortably middle class.
The rest of the town is quite well to do.

[cap]

40. self-delete

[cap]

41. sorry about the double posting... got tripped up by the DU server

[Greyhound]

44. That's the dream. To believe that luck is only some tiny part of your current success.

I'll just leave it with this, Aside from the initial failing in college, you just haven't come as far as many of us have, yet. Trust me, you still have owners and the minute it occurs to one of them that they can make more money by taking it all away from you, it's gone.

[gorfle]

51. What defeatism!

I just can't get behind this whole idea that luck is largely responsible for our conditions in life.

What a terrible, helpless way to live one's life that must be!

I'm going to make my own luck.

[Greyhound]

54. It's experience, I was where you are and I would not have believed it could happen to me either.

That's the dream part. Talent, perseverance, and intelligence are meaningless in the face of luck (good or bad). The only people relatively immune to luck are the members of the lucky sperm club, and even that is luck.

[gorfle]

59. I feel sorry for your sense of helplessness.

Very sad. I hope you regain some sense of control of your life.

[Greyhound]

69. No worries.

I hope you don't experience it.

BTW, I was one of the top 5 or 6 people in my field in the U.S. and Europe and my net was over $700K when it started.

[raccoon]

47. Sounds like you did work hard but luck did enter into it too.

Sometimes disability rears its ugly head and one's earning power goes in the toilet.

[pitohui]

62. juggling family for men is not the same as juggling family for women

it takes a minute to be a sperm donor and a minute more to wave at the kids over breakfast in the morning

as a woman when a man talks abt "hard work" i'm sorry to say it, but it just makes me laugh

so i can see where the other person is coming from

personally i don't see much "hard work" going on when a person takes 17 years (!) to stroll thru school, this is not much evidence of hard work, quite the contrary, so i'm sorry to say that based on people i've known like you in like situations -- you eventually found the right contact or the right family member or something else went right to get you the 100K job, people get advanced degrees with top grades in WAY less than 17 years and never get a whiff at such a job -- they worked hard, they actually studied rather than partied, but apparently it's more important to party w. the right people than to Get Things Done and Learn Stuff

it's who you know and who you blow, and anecdotes from invisible people on the internet don't really change that any

maybe you're the one guy in a million who got such a job without contacts, but nope, you're probably not...i believe the last quote was that over 85% of jobs are received thru contacts and when it comes to six figure a year type jobs, come on, it's 100 %

[Bucky]

21. Wow, you make it sound like work.

Didn't anyone just up and hand you a pot of gold...

and a big fat pony...

and then call you a waahhhmbulance? If no one handed you a pot of gold, the American dream is dead and everyone who disagrees with me is a Hitler.

 

[Cerridwen]

34. How's your mom doing?

[cap]

42. Let's see... the money she spent on his groceries, utilities and extras

typically amounts to about $30,000.

If she charged rent.... that's more money. Money she could have spent on her education, retirement, vacation, savings account, etc.

[gorfle]

50. I paid rent.

I paid rent while I lived with my Mom.

[cap]

52. you didn't cover all your costs...

that's the point of living with mom and not a roommate.

[gorfle]

57. How do you know?

.

[gorfle]

49. She's fine.

She's fine, enjoying retirement.

[potisok]

10. Reports expose myth of upward social mobility in US

By Peter Daniels
20 May 2006
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/mobi-m20.shtml

Even as American society has become more unequal and social mobility has declined, the myth of mobility maintains its strength.

This article is posted on the World Socialist Web site. I am not promoting just stating where I found it

I agree with your statement, the truth has been around for a long time.

[Joe the Liberal]

11. The American Dream, imo, is just an illusion......

used to attract immigrants, boost consumerism and trick you into thinking that social mobility is high when in truth it's higher in other places. I think that the myth of the American Dream just plays into the whole "America is the greatest nation on earth" myth which is also an illusion.

[CANDO]

66. American Exceptionalism

Big time belief of those on the right. I seem to remember Palin used the term in her RNC speech. It goes that if you don't believe America is the be all and end all, you must hate America.

[arcadian]

13. The American Dream myth is similar to the Merry England myth.

[DailyGrind51]

14. "American Delusion" is more accurate.

[C_Lawyer09]

16. If the American dream is dead, why do people still risk everything to come here?

Though our manufacturing base has all but dried up, our somewhat free market form of capitalism, still is the envy of many nations. We still are very prosperous as a whole. It takes more sacrifice than it used too. There are more challenges to overcome, and we face looming crisis that weren't a problem, before we reached peak oil production in 1970. The epidemic of failing states, and the advance of technology and mobility is a double edged sword. Threats exist that did not twenty years ago. Though we are in a precarious position now in regard to climate change, health care, politicians representative of a constituency, unpopular wars that are extremely divisive, and laws that allow corporations to leverage the system, while a family is in many ways unprotected, I realize all this. Having said that, I've watched one Chinese restaurant become 12, and one cleaners become 10, this has happened in the last decade. It is helpful to remember that there are large differences between the great generation and todays generations x, y, and millenial. Ninety percent of the worlds population doesn't choose what they will eat for meals, has no more than one pair of shoes, does not have motorized transportation, etc. FYI, I don't feel, the white male argument holds as much water as it used too. To the point, I'm getting pretty irritated that it is constantly mentioned on here. There are a shitload of white males out there right now, that aren't feeling the luck of their white maleness, and the luck and privelege it supposedly brings.

[arcadian]

20. Please provide an example of "people still risk everything to come here"

You are just perpetuating the myth.

[C_Lawyer09]

26. Do you not read the news?

How about the hundreds to thousands of Mexicans that die every year, being transported across the border by Coyotes? How about the Vietnamese and Peruvians that populate huge neighborhoods in Orange County CA.? The massive Montgard populations in Greensboro NC and Southwestern Washington state. Thirty-Forty percent of doctors at Cape Fear Valley Medical Center are Asian or Indian, this trend can be found across the United States. There is a steady influx of political refugees from Africa, South America, and almost every nation you can name. Your question is insulting to your level of awareness. News flash, there is a reason that within twenty years Latinos will be the majority within the United States, and its not because they are being forced to leave. There is no myth, I'm perpetuating reality, that you have apparently been ignoring.

[leftstreet]

33. We need a border fence to keep the Canadians out

Oh, and the Brits, the French, the Scandinavians...

wait, what?

[C_Lawyer09]

35. Oh, I get it!

You are saying that people from richer nations aren't as likely to seek a part of the American dream. Genius, your ability to make an obvious point is amazing. I stand by what I said.

[melm00se]

61. Legal US immigration

numbers can be found here:

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2008/ois_yb_2008.pdf

(page 15)

approximately 1 million people per year obtain legal permanent status in the USA.

[Romulox]

58. We're slightly better off than Haiti. Hooray? nt

[pitohui]

63. because they're uneducated and ignorant? if they're smart, they go to canada or something

it's pretty stupid, if you had all the information, to immigrate to the usa, instead of to canada or ireland or some other place where you have great social services, great health care, and a great safety net

many of the immigrants who "risk everything" to come drive a cab in vegas are, let's face it, just not that well informed

also for some people there is geographic reality, if i live in mexico, i can more easily stroll across the river into the usa, it might not be as good as canada, it ISN'T as good as canada, but it's a fuck of a lot closer

why do all those people in zimbabwe immigrate to south africa? BECAUSE IT'S THERE

[Joe the Liberal]

68. This n/t

[Bucky]

18. How many countries have you lived in besides the United States?

Sorry, but I live in an immigrant rich city. I know too many people who've come here and have something to compare the American experience against. To a person, they all say the dream is possible here, if you're willing to work for it. Saying anything else just shows how limited your world view is.

[C_Lawyer09]

27. Exactly

There is a reason political and social refugees are constantly arriving. It disgusts me that there are those that pompously declare the American dream dead, as Asian families bust their collective ass, and build ten thriving businesses in a decade. We were them at the turn of the century. I knew a Peruvian in Anaheim CA. that saved 40k in five years of restaurant work, damn sure no small feat! Why, so he could bring his family here to the land of opportunity. Ask a Somali if he wants to go back? I appreciate your thoughtful post.

[anarch]

19. the genius of the system in the U.S.

was in always allowing a very small percentage to actually "make it", to actually beat the house or whatever...not in any kind of meaningful way, but enough to pacify the successful social climbers, and enough to enchant the masses into wanting the shiny trinkets of imaginary "wealth".

[Bucky]

23. Same question to you as I gave to the OP

Where have you lived and worked besides the US to make a comparison?

[anarch]

25. I must admit, I've never lived outside of the U.S.

but from what I understand, for the most part you can't even get the illusion of wealth in most places. I've known a whole bunch of people who came here from El Salvador back in the 80's and 90's...they're a hell of a lot better off here, as far as I know. If I'm understanding your point, I agree, we're better off here (the U.S.) than people are in many places. But that doesn't change my mind about the existence of a pretty unsurmountable hurdle in really being economically free, here or anywhere.

[C_Lawyer09]

28. That is where you are wrong

There is a reason for the draw, and the reason is there are many who have made it and are making it. To your established standard? Maybe not, but remember, there are not many of us that walk to our water supply and hump it back, or stand in line for three hours to buy staples like bread or milk. You jokers are about as naive as they come.

[arcadian]

37. You have fantasy view of the third world.

The reason why those conditions exist in the third world is because of programs forced on those countries by the World Bank, IMF, USAID, etc. Who is to say that living on a farm in their home country isn't as authentic a life as living in a apartment with 10 other people and working menial jobs in the U.S.? You? The forced migration is promoted by big business who need slave labors for the U.S. economy. My aren't you the noble one? "We are helping those poor immigrants!" What a pathetic attitude, I'm betting you have no problem with sweat shops either.

[Ikonoklast]

55. Submitted without comment...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424701106590613.html

[amborin]

24. Antonio Gramsci spoke of this: the use of myths to coerce the masses without guns

Gramsci said capitalists could achieve ideological hegemony over the masses; the masses would buy into the myths, such as the Horatio Alger myth, and go along with the program.

consensus, rather than coercion, through the power of the myth

[Kablooie]

30. The American Dream is still doing fine. It's the American Reality that's having problems.

[HughBeaumont]

31. That's an awesome quote.

[raccoon]

38. That's quotable! nt

[backscatter712]

32. America itself is dying.

The country's now effectively ungovernable through democratic means - the GOP, Lieberman and the conservadems just ensured that absolutely no legislation of democratic (small-D) substance can get through the Senate. Plutocratic, corporate, authoritarian legislation? That's a different matter.

They're going to continue to obstruct meaningful change, things will continue to deteriorate in the country, eventually, people will get pissed off enough to take matters into their own hands, and the first and largest group to do that will be the teabaggers.

The only way I see this ending is through a charismatic right-winger with a funny moustache promising to make it all better if we just sign over all power to him. And to quote Star Wars, democracy will die with thunderous applause.

[SOS]

45. Agree

The seat of power in the US is not in Washington.
It resides on Wall Street.
The Senate is a rubber stamp appendage to the interests of Wall Street.

The President is now more akin to Queen Elizabeth than FDR.
A figurehead.

The oligarchs have shrewdly purchased enough Senators to ensure that their interests will always supersede those of the American people.
As Dick Durbin recently said about the Senate: "The banks own this place."

This is the very definition of state monopoly capitalism, which will ultimately collapse. (My guess is 2018).

At that point a new system will have to be implemented to replace the plundered, bankrupted remains of a 40-year looting spree.
Democratic Socialism is the obvious choice, but as you said, in this country it will most likely be a charismatic right-winger with a funny moustache.

[treestar]

36. The rest of the world is getting in on it

We won't be the 5% of the population consuming 25% of the world's resources.

It's hard to argue we are entitled to that.

[natrat]

43. it totally existed-think of all the people who were educated,had children and nice jobs

[taught_me_patience]

46. The American dream is alive and well

It takes hard work and luck, but it is still possible. America has unlimited opportunity for those who seek to find it. Hell, just the city of Los Angeles has unlimited opportunity.

[Romulox]

60. LA is a cesspool of poverty and crime. And rich people in gated communites. Terrible example. nt

[Javaman]

64. I've written about just this topic several times on DU (one of my favorite topics)

Here are the links to my Jounal, if you are interested:

Here's a newsflash: there never was an American dream.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2805051&mesg_id=2805296

We are called consumers for a reason...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2741734&mesg_id=2743281

The long slow spiral down…
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2984655

The great divide...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2924818

And related topics...

How far we have fallen...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5593120

It will be...Different.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5213898

So in a nation where the educational system nor the parents stress
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3583918&mesg_id=3600513

The State of Ourselves...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3314457

Far from brain dead...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3235324&mesg_id=3235758

The permanent debt pool...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1082546

Military Industrial Complex, Global Warming and everything...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1040279

The Eastern American Empire...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x797864

And finally this is what it has come to here in the U.S....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2989854&mesg_id=2990501

[mddem9850]

67. It was always bullshit