This is NOT a criticism, but rather an honest call for discussion.

[Stinky The Clown]

In my time on DU, I have seen more than a few poster's meltdowns. I have also seen what seem to be actual calls for help in the form of a threat to harm oneself.

Like tonight.

It seems to me that there are a few things that could be done. Posters have to register. That means an e-mail address, at a minimum. It is possible that DU has actual names and addresses for most of us ...... donations, contests, bumper stickers, t-shirts, etc., all had to be received or delivered.

If someone threatens to harm themselves, do we not have some obligation to at least call the local police? Or a suicide center? Ought we not give them what data we have?

Yes, I have no doubt there are privacy issues. But so, too, are there Good Samaritan laws.

Just a thought.

[EFerrari]

1. What happened I was off baking. Edit. I got it. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

2. ?

A link, at the very least, would be helpful.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. I won't link

It adds nothing to this discussion.

[Danger Mouse]

5. Thank you. It is an interesting discussion and worth having.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Yeah. I'm glad a mod wandered in. It seems you guys are the first line on stuff like this

For myself, I'd **really** hesitate to call authorities, but in the end, I know I would. I even thought about calling tonight because the poster is in my state. But what could I do? Tell someone the poster's screen name and town (from the poster's profile) and let them track the poster down? That would take too much time. But maybe you guys could get some better access. Maybe require two mods to agree. I dunno.

Maybe we could make it a condition of membership that you agree that your name could be given out in such cases?

I really don't know and haven't thought it through in any way. Just thinking out loud.

[Danger Mouse]

17. Those are good questions but are probably best off being directed towards admins.

They'll be a lot more helpful than I can be.

[apocalypsehow]

10. Sorry, I wasn't trying to call anybody "out" - I've been off DU for the past hour or so & missed

whatever episode prompted your OP.

Hope whatever it was about and whoever it concerned all turns out alright.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I didn't take your request as anything but a way to help understand what we were talking about.

:hi:


Edit to correct typo in title

[FarLeftFist]

3. I think the RNC is paying bloggers and DU has been infiltrated by undercover RW'ers.

[thunder rising]

11. No think about it, DU is trolled. Just test out a post like "Why I still love my President" and

the first hits will take you negative.

From my observation there is at least 2 and maybe 5 evil unrec trolls.

[FarLeftFist]

14. I actually think it's the other way around...

I think their are REC trolls that rec threads that bash our president in a non-productive manner (b/c bashing him productively is constructive criticism), inflammatory threads.

[NYC_SKP]

6. .

I sent a PM.

I haven't seen poster around in a while, but had PMed in the past.

Donors, I believe, would ordinarily leave some data that could be tracked, PayPal account or credit card.

I don't know how the administrators feel about it, or the issues of liability, but I'm grateful for the hotline numbers and website posted.

Holding good thoughts for her.

:grouphug:

[Hatchling]

7. I'm concerned as well,

but this would best be addressed privately to the Admin. If I were said person, I might view this post as a threat to my privacy. Not wise, imo, no matter how caring the thought is.

[saltpoint]

8. No. We are not in a position, as the Mod correctly pointed out,

to make behavioral health determinations based on what someone says in cyberspace on an opinion board.

We can't even tell tone or inflection from what appears on the screen.

People who post 'Fuck Joe Lieberman' -- I hope -- don't mean they literally desire carnal bond with him.

People who post suicide content may be hyperventilating over health care reform or some bozo on FOX News -- we have no idea at all.

We also don't know enough to assume someone else's circumstance. If we trespass and guess we could guess wrong and in any event we are absolutely unable to determine whether a suicide post is real, or if it is, whether it is passive or active.

Just because you and I have teeth doesn't mean we should be allowed to perform root canal surgery on someone else.

A few posters thought that poster was kidding. Some thought the poster was for real. But none of us knew, at least not in the initial going. The whole thread only lasted a few minutes. The posts over-crossed.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. All valid points.

But it seems to me that it is fairly obvious as to what is snark and what isn't. But sometimes it isn't. I took tonight's thread (by the way, now pulled, it seems) to be serious. So did the mods, since they locked it and then yanked.

I see this as kinda like a heart attack. If you feel chest pains, you get yourself to the ER and sort out later why you're not actually having one. Better than dying if the threat turns out to be real.

[saltpoint]

20. These boards are too much of a crossfire of sensibilities for me to

make an uninformed guess on someone else's mood stability.

Posters had to ask her if she was serious.

She wasn't so serious that she couldn't respond to a Spiderman film reference but did offer other posters insight into her apparent struggle with weight problems.

That's not a clinical landscape.

I hear you on the heart attacks, Stinky, but in a manner of speaking a poster posting self-harm lays an ambush for everyone else. Is it a false alarm, or the real thing, and so forth.

There are some serious liability issues as well, these in addition to health care protocols.

I'm glad the mods yanked the thing when it turned out she was serious.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I have no doubt that could be a legal minefield

That's why I asked about Good Samaritan laws. Sadly, I have no clue as to how to even start such research.

[saltpoint]

23. I'm at least as clueless. True --Attorneys can be good Sams sometimes.

They get lumped together in the hog trough and people forget that some of them do serious pro bono work.

I hope the poster tonight phones up a friend who is used to his/her phone ringing at odd hours and talks through the gloom and walks out on a better morning tomorrow.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. I was hoping a lawyer would chime in heerre and at least give us the highlights.

[EFerrari]

28. Things can be quite serious and still not as they seem or are reported.

I had one group member that described his wife's psychosis in detail for years and it later turned out he was actually the one with the problems he attributed to her.

The DU admins have always exercised excellent judgment when these situations arise, imho.

[saltpoint]

29. Agreed. I think I'd go as far to say that we need to replace all the

Blue Dog Democrats with the DU mods.

Pack a satchel up right away, you mods. We'll drive you to the airport.

[EFerrari]

9. I used to run a support group for a pop at very high risk of self harm

on line.

We did a lot of talking and phoning and even some meeting up. I did two welfare checks in about five years. We were pretty lucky, come to think of it.

Aside from just the liability issues which are above my pay grade, I don't really see what can be done on a forum of this size except send good vibes. The individual may have friends that are in closer contact and they would be the ones to take the steps you suggest because they have better information or hopefully, they do.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Yeah, I recall that about you ......

..... thanks for weighing in.

I can't imagine timidity in cases like this. Yes, there may be false alarms, but better we get a hundred of them than we fail to act to save one person, it seems to me. But I am quick to add that sentiment is my emotion speaking, not my logic.

Taking the case tonight, we know the screen name. The profile has a city and state. The city is actually a small town. I would expect any competent police organization could crack that one pretty quickly, with DU help making it even quicker.

I'd also love to know how Good Samaritan laws apply ..... if, indeed, they even do.

[EFerrari]

18. You're a good man, Stinky.

:)

[Hekate]

13. I was pretty shocked by that post, and not knowing what else to do I Alerted...

... hoping that some mod here would have a notion of what to do, since the admins are the ones with the data.

I honestly don't know.

It seems to have disappeared, though -- I wanted to go back and check.

Hekate

[thunder rising]

15. If you remember DK had an issue like this a few years back and it turned embarrassing for DK

The blogs have been through it all suiciders (GBCW), fake "Queen for A Day" contestants scamming money.

If they are talking (writing) they are not hopeless. I believe this.

If you think keeping them in a conversation is good, then go for it. But don't step over the line. It can get ugly in ways you never dreamed of. (dangling participle ... sue me)

Stinky I have read your posts it seems forever and I know you must be concerned. Don't get drawn to deep, this is still virtual reality.

[Feron]

24. On a messageboard, perhaps the only thing you can do...

is to PM the person with a suicide hotline phone number and a few places online that you think may help.

And/or invite the person to talk to you if you are so inclined.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. This sort of thing came up back when I was a mod, and...

the Admins have it pretty much under control.

I didn't see what you're talking about now, but, as a lot of people here recognize, these posts can range from a legitimate cry for help to outright scams, and we on the board have no idea what is really going on. The Admins usually do have more information than we have and make the call on how to handle it.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I kinda figured that ..... but woud the admins get a "call" at 2 am on a Saturday?

This sort of thing never happens during working hours.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. Maybe not every Saturday, but this isn't a perfect world. At any rate...

they have dealt with this sort of thing in the past, and they are the only ones who can realistically even try to deal with it.

Alert and step back is pretty much all we can do.