So I muted Obama this morning. Just I like I use to mute Bush.

[county worker]

I could not stand to hear him on NPR telling the Dems that they have to pass this stinking insurance reform bill.

Before I muted him I heard him say that for sure insurance premiums will rise if this bill isn't passed. Hey Barack! Mandates will raise premiums on those who already can't afford health insurance! So whose ox should we gore?

I feel like I have been conned. I don't trust what he says, I don't trust his motives.

[MineralMan]

1. So, what did he say?

[Matariki]

27. One thing he said was if the public and the senate knew what was in the bill

they'd support it.

which begs the question, why have they been so cagey about what's in the bill?

[Mithreal]

53. No reason the senate would know what was in the Senate bill

That statement floored me.

[xiamiam]

2. i stopped looking at the photos as well..i like them...but i cant look any longer..too sad ..nt

[ThatsMyBarack]

21. Me, too!

:cry: :eyes:

[seeinfweggos]

42. Roflmfao i can't drink Kenyan coffee without sobbing uncontrolably

[paulsby]

43. lol. seriously. that was classic . nt

[anigbrowl]

52. I'm unable to recite the second half of the alphabet. Keep getting stuck

[Mithreal]

54. I rarely agree with you, but that was freaking fantastic

Is that original or you steal it?

Still laughing, cheers on that one.

[napi21]

3. One of the highest expenses of a hospital is ER care for

those who can't pay. It's a write off and a direct cost. That's one of the reasons an asprin in the hospital costs $110.00! Those costs have to be covered by something, and are added on to every other service, which increases your ins. costs. That's the case even at non-profit hospitals. I understand your problem with mandates, but this bill states that your ins. costs can't be more than 17% of your income. If you eliminate MOST of the unnecessary ER visits and switch them to a Dr. office, clinic, or urgent care facility, you bring all costs down, improve everyone's health, and it's still not going to be an unreasonable costs to those who are now uninsured.

[DrDan]

6. "can't be more than 17% of your income"

so - for someone making $50K you think $8,500 is reasonable? I guess it might be if they did not have to pay taxes, lives somewhere, drive a car . . . eat.

[napi21]

44. Not sure, but I think that's AGI. But even if it's not, that's

$700/mo for family coverage. I bet if you took a poll here on DU you'd find a lot of people who even have employer sponsored ins. are paying close to that or more just as their portion of the costs.

[readmoreoften]

55. And what if that person is single and already has a $700 student loan bill?

And a mortgage, and a car payment, and has 25% of their income taken in taxes. Or families that are already underwater.

The reason why people DON'T have insurance is because they can't afford it. So this just forces people to buy what they can't afford already.

[DrDan]

67. and this is EXACTLY what we were suppose to be fighting for

an option to cover these situations.

What do we get - a mandate. Pay it or be breaking the law.

Sort of a GWB style of compassion.

[Fruittree]

65. percentage of income

I don't think it's reasonable but my son had an er experience last year and the bill was $4500 so put into that context, $8500 for a year's worth of coverage doesn't sound too bad. What I'm wondering is why nothing is being done to control cost of service. If you can't put some control on the cost- any health or insurance reform seems bound to fail in the long run.

[DrDan]

66. isn't that the cost of the insurance? There are still deductibles and co-pays that need to be paid

and . . . the 17% is not a limit - it can go up with age and with pre-conditions.

[kiva]

10. If I could pay more taxes and contribute to single-payer

health care for all, I would do it without a whimper - that would actually bring down the cost of medical expenses and allow all Americans access to the care they need. This is a corporate giveaway that will ruin household economies and guarantee that the Dems will lose Congress and the presidency. If you doubt the former, ask people who currently can't afford insurance if they could give up 17% of their income, and I suspect you will get a resounding NO! from most people - and that is assuming that the 17% figure is correct; given the constant shifting about this issue, that may or may not be true.

[county worker]

18. I think that if people could afford insurance they would buy it.

The reason they are uninsured is that they have jobs without benefits. Those are low paying jobs. Now you will take more of their take home pay and give it to insurance companies. That means they will have to live on less income than they do now.

I can't see how that is a benefit to society. Better we pay their ER costs than to force them deeper into poverty.

[ljm2002]

34. That 17% is just for your insurance costs...

...and says nothing about how much you need to pay out of pocket with deductibles, etc. And we all know that the newly insured will not be getting "Cadillac coverage"; therefore, many if not most of the newly insured will be unable to afford actual health care, apart from minimal checkups. That is not my idea of health care reform, nor even health insurance reform.

What we are left with is a bill that SUCKS, big time. Kill that sucker.

[noamnety]

68. Yes, and the 17% is on top of uncovered women's health care. (nt)

[closeupready]

4. He's a gifted politician. Talks a good talk.

Walking is for little people.

[HuckleB]

5. In other words, if the democratic process doesn't go entirely your way, you tune out?

[DrDan]

7. I don't think that is what the OP said - only that listening to him eloquently deliver

one more speech that does not get to the change we expected, is too much.

Can't say I disagree with that.


"fool me once . . . . can't fool me again"

[HuckleB]

13. Your post is interesting.

The OP didn't say "that," but, uh, "Change we expected."

ROTFLMAO!

:rofl:

[DrDan]

15. just the way I interpreted it -

"I feel like I have been conned. I don't trust what he says, I don't trust his motives."

[HuckleB]

39. "Feel."

Keep feeling. That doesn't get us anywhere.

[DrDan]

40. that was a quote from the OP

[gristy]

8. Certainly that is not what the OP is saying.

[HuckleB]

12. You keep telling yourself that.

[county worker]

16. Back in the Bush days I felt that everything he was saying was manipulative.

I hate feeling manipulated. That's what I felt this morning listening to Obama. Rarely does the democratic process go the way I want it. I can't remember when it did.

[HuckleB]

38. I may not agree with Obama, but I don't feel manipulated.

Mostly because logically, I haven't been. And that's why I see the plethora of threads like this as I do.

[county worker]

45. I have been asking myself where is the reconciliation between what we heard in the election cycle

and what we are hearing now.

When I hear Obama saying something different than what I heard him say before the election I wait to hear him explain why there is a difference. I have yet to hear it.

I'm saying to myself, surely he has a good reason for what he is saying now and he can explain to us why what he said in the run up to the election differs from the reality we are faced with today. But he never gives and explanation. He just says something different today.

I'm asking myself, is this planned? Did he not mean what he was saying before? Was he just really not in touch with reality back then and now he is? What's the deal? I feel manipulated. If I hear a good explanation I could feel different I suppose but I don't hear shit!

[Mithreal]

58. HuckleB does not intend to try and see this from your pov.

His is supreme.

[lamp_shade]

9. Grow up.

[county worker]

Please elaborate. I haven't had a reply like that in a long while.

You must have more to say than that.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithreal]

69. It's insider language for "be a team player"

Don't you want to sell out your principles and fellow Americans for the short term goal of the party?

[Peregrine Took]

11. I've been doing that for weeks. I turn down the volume on the radio.

I feel he played me for a chump.

As Tweety said the other night "Would he have given that Nobel speech in Iowa when he was running?"

[treestar]

14. I try to avoid listening to repukes

Hannity and Rush and the rest.

But man, that's pretty screwed up. If you're that far to the left, and can't stand to hear it, this country will be a miserable place for you for at least the next several decades. Hope you're young.

[krabigirl]

19. So supporting real health care reform makes one radically left?

I mean, I always knew I was very far to the left, but to suggest that merely wanting real health are reform makes them far lefties like me...wow. That's truly scary.

[treestar]

24. You are defining "real health care reform" yourself and expecting

that the political identity of the entire nation is adjusted to your barometer!

Try right wingers, who think it's "marxism" and the "end of freedom in America."

[Mithreal]

62. smug! masterful evasion

Lies don't define us. And your fellow DU'ers could care less what RWers call them.

Cursing a fellow DU'er like you did in 14 is pretty sick as well.

[county worker]

25. No I am not young. I'm old enough to remember when you voted for a Dem

and he/she cared more about your interests than they did the corporations. I've been voting Dem since 1964.

[azmouse]

17. lalalala.... I can't hear you.

[HuckleB]

36. +1

[Mari333]

20. I cannot watch him either

it is too easy to read through the PR now. empty words, putting lipstick on the pig, handing people boxes of shit and calling them cookies.
knr

[change_notfinetuning]

22. Anyone who refers to it as reform is insulting our intelligence. n/t

[bighart]

33. perfectly stated

[krabigirl]

23. I mute them all, except for a few.

Did you really think the elites in this country would allow a true liberal to be elected? lmao

[HipChick]

26. LOL! right, they going to allow a true progressive to be elected next..

[BrklynLiberal]

28. Heartbreaking, isn't it?

x(

Guess Reality really does Bite.

[debbierlus]

30. You have been conned and you SHOULD NOT trust his motives

[tomm2thumbs]

31. Lieberman is the Senate's own version of N Korea & Iran - they play the nuclear game with impunity

If this is how Obama comes to a fight, I'd just assume leave him at home and bring a brick instead. At least you can count on a brick.

[blues90]

32. Those old enough to remember Reagan who was called the great

communicator should have seem through this at the beginning. Then we had Clinton and rock the vote and all the hope was instilled after GHW and his gulf war.

People continue to fall for this crap. Rather than look at their policy and listen to the campaign speeches everyone wants a hero and never looks deeper than that sort of mind set.

Just look at what they now call debates all put out there by corporate owned media and sponsored by clean coal. These were not debates that were anything close to meaningfull.

It was the slogans and catch phrases and all the while Obama said the same thing over and over again.

I did not vote either of the two party lines because well before this I had enough.

It should have been clear enough in the 2006 midterms where we were headed when the Dems slogan was ending the war and they did not, they funded it all the way yet put on their show.

It's this two party system that needs to be ended because both parties are really one plus showmanship.

It is the people who need to control the government they work for us yet we allowed it to become the reverse.

[ljm2002]

35. I agree to a point...

...however, Obama did make policy statements that he is not abiding by. The most obvious one of course was his opposition to mandates, a point he used to differentiate himself from Clinton during the primaries.

I am sorry to say, I'm getting to the same point as the OP. I did not think he would be a screaming liberal(*), not by any means. But I did think he would work for average Americans over the fat cats, and in that it appears I was sadly mistaken.

Instead, we see him placating the rabid right wing, and lashing out at solid liberals like Howard Dean. It is pathetic and infuriating, and we deserve better.

(*) at least one poster on this board called out the "screaming libs" in another thread. So now even on DU we have to listen to the constant stream of anti-liberal rhetoric.

Mods: can someone create a "Member of the Screaming Libs" avatar? If that's too much text, maybe use the painting "The Scream" and superimpose "Libs" on top? hmmm, maybe I'll see if I can whip one up in Photoshop...

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. And why should you trust him? He promised universal healthcare. and reneged on that.

[seeinfweggos]

41. im sure the president is losing sleep over your volume level choices

[county worker]

46. He may be losing sleep because the base is starting to reach for the pitch forks.

I'm willing to bet you that you will hear that Obama has lost sleep over the loss in support from the base that elected him.

I didn't come to this position a long time ago. It is new to me. I gave Obama the benefit of the doubt even though I was questioning why he was saying what he was saying.

I felt he knew something I didn't. I was willing to trust that he could tell me what the right thing to do was.

I can't feel that way anymore. I am not alone. This is serious shit even though you don' see that.

[seeinfweggos]

47. 81 percent approval among dems

his base is fine

[county worker]

48. If and when this Senate bill is passed come back with the poll results.

I'll change that a bit. If and when this Senate bill is put into law and people feel the results, come back with the poll results.

[Missy Vixen]

49. How's his fundraising going?

I notice a fundraising appeal everytime he sends out another "letter".

Those 81% better have lots and lots of disposable income.

:eyes:

I've been voting Democratic since 1981. I'll be supporting progressives next time around. I'm tired of the sky falling rhetoric every election. We've given him EVERY tool for success, "hope" and "change", and he has squandered them all.

[pissedoff01]

51. He'll be lucky to get a half-full stadium next time

I certainly will have no intention to attend.

[readmoreoften]

57. Was that poll taken last week? Or since he bellied up to Lieberman?

You keep telling yourself that.

[Hardrada]

59. WH Talking Point #14

[Mithreal]

64. Keep comforting yourself with that number, just remember the warnings

[UrbScotty]

50. How this bullshit gets rec'd so much around here, is beyond understanding

[Mithreal]

63. Might want to change your avatar to Lieberman

[Raine]

56. It's painful to see or hear him anymore

when he won't fight for those who elected him. :-(

[Hardrada]

60. I don't mute him. I don't have the TV on that much however.

And I just listen to classical music on FM and skip NPR so I don't get the AIPAC talking points either.

[earth mom]

61. Good idea since actions speak louder than words. That Obama is a good speaker is why so many fell

under his spell.

Judge Obama's actions.

Follow the money.

Connect the dots.

Stay away from the corporate media outlets who only live to serve the lies and bullshit that will benefit them.