Why the INCREMENTALISTS are WRONG!

[Vinnie From Indy]

The "Incrementalists" that urge progressives to support a bill with no public option and one that includes horrific provisions about mandates, caps and the like are simply dead wrong. They are basing their entire argument on the assumption that Wellpoint and the rest are actually going to act in good faith on those aspects of the bill that are being touted as "progress". They have no intention of playing nice and respecting these annoying provisions.

You can be damn sure that these insurance companies have already devised ways to get around provisions like pre-existig conditions and the like. In short, Big Insurance has no intentions of playing fair and the bill does NOTHING to make them. Mark my words, if this bill passes as is being discussed, we will all be here in a few years kicking around stories about how Big Insurance isn't even doing the things considered to be "incremental" progress in the bill. Bank on it!

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Agreed - they need to just ram through the one policy that will work and work best.

'Stepping up' to the ideal situation 'eventually' is a laughable, ignorant, stupid concept.

This isn't like a house that's perfectly fine, except that it just needs another bedroom added on. This is a house that's falling down, filled with plumbing and wiring that hasn't met code in 100 years, is a fire trap, an asbestos trap, and a mold factory, and has most everything jury-rigged and ready to implode if anyone touches it too hard.

Tear the whole thing down, and start over from scratch.

[Buzz Clik]

4. All or nothing? We've had nothing for decades.

Looks like you'd prefer nothing for yet another decade.

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. Well...

if you want to set the table with fine china and sterling silverware to eat a "wish" sandwich, be my guest!

Also, it's not that I prefer nothing, it is that I am getting nothing. In fact I am getting less than nothing. I am going to get a monthly bill to pay for health care that I will never see or that is not worth nearly what I am paying for it.

If you believe for second that the insurance industry is going to sacrifice a penny of profit by adhering to these quaint provisions in the bill that is beiing discussed, we are obviously very far apart in our understanding of reality.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Same old shit, different decade.

The extremes of both parties rule the day, and the house of cards tumble. So, the uninsured will remain uninsured. So be it.

[MNDemNY]

8. to this??? yup.

[Buzz Clik]

15. I really hope you get your wish.

What will you scream about then?

I'm confident you'll find something.

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. I'm saying they had the people, the votes, and the public support to go for "ALL" and fucked us.

Trying to placate Olympia Snow or some other dumbshit irrelevant fucknut.

[Buzz Clik]

22. Really? They had the votes to go for "ALL"? Where have you been?

Do you think this is a bad dream? We have nothing because the people we elect to Congress are not what they appear. We see this clearly, but we blame everyone else.

If you want change, start a grassroots effort today to replace your representative and senators in Congress with someone you can support.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dpbrown]

3. It's just a handout to the industry that's kept us sick!

Mandates? Where the hell are the affordable options? Where is the competition?

[MNDemNY]

7. Those things you must "Hope" for.

Silly.

[TheWraith]

6. Thanks for completely not listening to anything that was said, and making things up in your head.

It really livens the debate. I'm sure that the people with pre-existing conditions, who would be guaranteed healthcare coverage under this bill, really appreciate your sense of moral purity. Not to mention the low income people who would finally be able to afford to take their children to the doctor.

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. Your faith in the honor of health insurance companies is duly noted!

Speaking of not "listening" to the words written on this forum, you seem to have missed the central premise of my OP which is that those currently with pre-existing conditions will still be screwed regardless if this bill passes. It is my belief that because there are no real teeth in this bill to make insurance companies do their part, they won't. Profit will still be the primary motive for any decsions that are made at these corporations. I happen to believe that if the choice for executives at these companies is cover folks with pre-existing conditions or keeping their 24 million a year compensation package, the country club membership and the yacht, they will choose the yacht everytime.

[daa]

12. Did YOU read

At 3 times the rate they can keep it. If your rate is $800 a month then a pre-existing condition is $2100 a monthy. WTF are you made of money??? And THEN you have to pay copays and buy drugs.

[Lyric]

9. The most important point:

"You can be damn sure that these insurance companies have already devised ways to get around provisions like pre-existig conditions and the like."

Oh yes indeed. Like rejecting applicants based on their credit reports, knowing full well that people with pre-existing conditions tend to have less-than-stellar credit thanks to medical debt.

And yet, the bill does nothing to close that enormous loophole. The ban on discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions might as well not even be there, for all the good it's going to to.

[timeforpeace]

10. They're wrong, but at least they're disingenuous.

[Vinnie From Indy]

20. lol !

cheers!

[daa]

13. I agree it has been 40 years since Medicare

and we don't need to wait another 40 years for improvement. Listen to these senators go on the Ed show and I'm not voting for this or that and they all caved. Every one.

The only two hanging in there for us are Weiner and Trumka.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Incrementalists : a nice word for 'I got mine status quo defenders'

And they are around for every issue, for as long as I can remember, and they are always wrong, they have never been right and there is no longer any need to even listen to the same people who keep us stuck in the mud for their comfort and profit.

[wolfgangmo]

17. I have a more nuanced view of this.

First of all I think that this bill should be passed. Having lobbied at the state level and participated in a national lobbying effort (grassroots and NOT astroturf) I can tell you that getting legislation modified is MUCH easier than getting a new bill passed.

Having said that, this bill sucks. As a clinic manager I can say from experience that insurance companies are out to screw everyone; patients, doctors, nurses, etc.

I think the rule of thumb is, if they are corporation, then they will screw you every chance they get.

[HuckleB]

19. +1

That's the best, most reasoned bite I've seen at DU today!

Cheers!

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. ... and they will.

[HuckleB]

18. Is everyone always all "right" or all "wrong?"

Just curious.

[Odin2005]

23. Slavery to insurance companies is FASCISM.

[JVS]

25. If you think the bill sucks now, wait until it applies under Republican oversight...

or they decide to "fix" it later on. The Democrats have let themselves be duped into constructing a WMD against the public.