The Dems have fucked themselves out of power in 2012...

[cynatnite]

If this bill is killed then it will be Obama's failure. He has staked his presidency on it.

The repukes knew if they could stop reform then they could take power back in 2012.

What do you think?

[virgogal]

1. Oh ye of little faith. We have 3 more years and lots can happen.

Cheer up!

[cynatnite]

2. I'm working on it.

I bought Christmas candy.

[virgogal]

12. That'll do it! :-)

[kenny blankenship]

3. If it passes it will be his failure, too.

The backlash that's coming will be beyond anything seen in the Republican era. People are GOING TO HATE DEMOCRATS for this.

[tomm2thumbs]

26. +1 too many chefs all with their own recipes does not make a good entree

especially when folks like Lieberman are running around switching the sugar with salt, the meat with dogfood and the oil with vinegar.

Eat up America!

[WeDidIt]

30. And a bigger failure than if the bill dies, too!

Clinton survived failing on health care, barely.

I don't think Obama can survive succeeding on mandating people buy a shitty product from the very people who put us in this mess.

[polichick]

4. imo this should be a gigantic wake-up call for the WH...

If so, there is plenty of time to get some things right for the people.

[still_one]

9. I second that /nt

[FiveGoodMen]

5. The worst thing is that Dems have proven that putting them into power doesn't help

America has nowhere to turn at all.

[Luciferous]

19. +1,000 We get screwed either way!

[county worker]

6. If this bill (Senate bill) is killed,

and we go back to the House bill with a "robust" public option, force it into law with reconciliation, make the public option available in 2010 and we win today, tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.

Force people to buy insurance from the very companies that are screwing us now and yes we lose in 2012.

[still_one]

7. Not necessarily, and if a bad bill was passed, that would be far worse

The fact is it depends who the other side puts up

If the republicans put up palin, or a right wing extremist, they would not win

Whoever gets the independent vote, will win the election

Too much can happen between now and then to even predict it.

By the end of next year you might have a good sense

[county worker]

15. You leave out the chance that Dems do not vote because of disappointment and depression.

That is what happened in 1994. Already we have seen the low turnout of the Dem base in Virginia and New Jersey. If we don't start to see some good law being put in place to turn the tide of the last 8 years we will really be in a world of hurt.

[still_one]

20. That is what I am assuming, that they would sit at home because they don't feel it matters

which is why I said that it will be the independent voter that will determine the election

[GreenArrow]

24. Third Party Challenge.

Then you'd have Obama playing the role of George Bush Senior, Sarah Palin in the Bill Clinton role, and playing the role of Ross Perot...? The right combination of circumstances and the right third party candidate could create serious problems.

[notadmblnd]

8. By the looks of things, they never lost power

so what's to get back in 2012?

[MercutioATC]

10. I think there ARE no "Dems" or "Repubs" in Congress.

They're all (well, mostly all) in it for themselves. They trade favors and endorsements and votes for their own gain and the only thought they give to us is how to get enough of us to vote for them to allow the game to continue.

They don't care if it's a "Republican" Congress or a "Democratic" Congress, as long as they get to stay in the game.....at least long enough to get a nice consulting job when they're voted out.

[Le Taz Hot]

11. So it's the REPUBLICANS'

fault that this bill is such a failure. Mkay. :eyes:

[Beetwasher]

13. Clinton Recovered And His Bill Went Down In Flames

A bill will pass and in 6 months, most people won't even remember the drama, they will only know that Dems passed HCR.

[CANDO]

22. "Clinton" recovered.

The Democrats were slaughtered for the next 14 years.

[Beetwasher]

25. Different Situation

And we were discussing the President.

[WI_DEM]

14. Nope, the economy will determine 2012

[Warpy]

16. Unless this goes to reconciliation and the good stuff goes back in,

they'll be out of power in the House in 2011 and they will be out of power in the Senate either then or in 2012.

Democrats will simply have no reason to vote in those elections and they will stay home.

If the GOP gets back in, this country really is finished.

All for the twisted egos of a few selfish old men.

[Marr]

17. Pretty much. Too bad Obama and his DLC crowd interpreted his popularity as a chance

to screw the taxpayers over, instead of get some meaningful healthcare reform.

It's a shame. If they'd possessed a degree of integrity, we'd be looking at real, positive healthcare reform right now, and a Democratic majority that would last for a good long time based on that one accomplishment alone. Instead, they chose to get clever, and play triangulation games and use government as a spigot for their corporate donors.

Yep, they've pretty much fucked their party over by fucking us over.

[DebbieCDC]

18. He's getting exactly the bill he wants

Read Glenn Greenwald in Salon today.

[mikita]

21. they never had power

I know this is an unpopular notion, but believers are starting to see that there is really nothing but shades of difference between our 2 lauded parties.

The real power lies beyond the dog and pony show.

[walldude]

23. Haven't you heard? It's not them it's us.

I have seen on many threads today how it's not the Dems fault, it's ours for not supporting all the wonderful things they are doing for us. And if we are unhappy and don't vote for people we don't like then Sarah Palin will become President and the world will end.

[lame54]

27. When were we in power?

[bvar22]

28. If this scam is passed....

..it will also be Obama/Democrats fault.

Most Americans will NOT be happy when they open their NEW Health Care Package and find a HUGE bill from the Health Insurance Cartel.

AND, it only costs a $TRILLION DOLLARS!

[Swamp Rat]

29. Yep.

It may also spark the beginning of a revolution.