Not a wise decision by the WH to try to make Dean look bad and Lieberman look good.

[madfloridian]

They are in effect saying that those like Joe Lieberman mean more to them than the ones who have fought hard in the background to keep the party from becoming more like the Republicans.

The Senate leaders sent Landrieu out tonight with false talking points about Dean. She lied about him on TV...right out loud.

I am to the point of non-belief that this is happening.

That the party would do this to him again after not even inviting him to the announcement of new DNC chairman....is beyond my comprehension.

I don't even know what to say anymore. They have in effect called him everything but a liar all day...and Landrieu went so far as to lie about him on Hardball.

It is a wrong-headed decision to attack him and embrace the Conservadems.

The WH attitude toward him is one I take personally as toward the rest of us who have worried as they have slowly stripped the bill of much that is meaningful.

Joe has not denied he might run as a Republican next time. He will pay back the love and adoration of the party leadership and the WH by becoming the Republican he really is.

[AllentownJake]

1. Dean knew what he was doing yesterday

and he knew that Rahm was foolish enough to take the bait.

[polichick]

6. Hmm, could be. What happens next? nt

[AllentownJake]

10. The President is not going to have an easy time with the base

Dean's statement yesterday was pretty much an authorization for democrats to stand up to the President.

[polichick]

14. Think Dean will run again? nt

[madfloridian]

18. I don't think he will run again.

He has been too loyal to the party for that.

I am very tired of defending party stances now, and it is getting old.

I wish he would, but I seriously doubt it.

[polichick]

21. He's not being a good soldier right now - and that's great for us. nt

[madfloridian]

24. Yes, it is good to see him speaking out.

He will pay a dear price for it, though.

I think he knows that.

[Pharaoh]

128. Dean~Kucinich

now there's a ticket, F the Democratic party if they want to screw their base!

[bc3000]

137. I prefer Kucinich-Dean, but I like the way you think

[RoccoR5955]

162. How about Sanders/Kucinich or Kucinich/Sanders?

That's who I will campaign for in 2012.
How many of you will help me make it so?

[glinda]

178. Dean-Sanders.

[tomp]

200. prez and v-prez from same state not constitutional. nt

[Greyhound]

164. Strangely, I don't think it would be a good ticket or team. No foreign policy chops between them.n/t

[AllentownJake]

19. Not sure

Depends on how 2010 goes, if he is vulnerable you will be seeing a lot more people than Howard Dean making some trips to Iowa.

[polichick]

22. Sure will be interesting to see who shows up in Iowa first! nt

[AllentownJake]

25. He cleaned out the potential moderate challengers

by giving them spots in the administration...I don't think he was ever looking at his left flank.

[polichick]

26. Heh heh! :)

[AndrewP]

35. LOL. That's true.

[tomp]

122. anyone know the last time a sitting president lost the primaries?

i think the better route is third party. i think many progressive democrats are extremely tired of democratic party politics. outside the party they could become a force to be reckoned with. inside the party they are obviously impotent.

[Don Draper]

139. What if it resulted in "President Palin" ?

[Voltaire]

146. That is a risk that MUST be run

For too long we have been cowed by similar threats and it is time to stop. The bill is a piece of shit that will enslave us to the insurance companies even more than they are. So please with the we might get Palin. If the insurance companies continue to win, what fucking difference would it make if Palin were President or not???

[Don Draper]

147. I share your sentiments and frustration

I am 100% for a single payer system and I actually consider myself a democratic socialist. I am pissed off at Obama and all of the other "Democrats" that get in the way of healthcare reform.

With that said, when I think about how much damage Bush did within an 8 year period, it seems really frightening to go back to that (and if Palin gets elected, she will be like Bush on steroids..........we will be more fucked than ever).

[Voltaire]

175. when the GOP comes back its the end of the Republic

Which might be a step up for us, we've certainly ruined the one we HAD

[ozone_man]

183. Go back to what? What has changed?

Ramp up of war in Afghanistan, more bail outs for Wall Street, soon to be hand outs to the insurance industry. I know, it seems like somehow we are in a more liberal administration, but are we really? I don't think so. It's a corporate/MIC friendly administration, whether Democrat or Republican serves mainly to distract conversation away from meaningful change.

The mandate for change has been squandered, all of that political capital acquired under Bush. Obama had a chance to reshape the banking industry and health care, and end the war, in the way that a modern version of FDR could have.

[Jackpine Radical]

171. Palin wil split the right just as Obama has split the left.

It'll be an interesting brouhaha.

[RoccoR5955]

163. We could run a bag of doorknobs, and Palin would still lose! n/t

[Generator]

46. I don't think he wants it and why would he

He has so much more power on the outside now. He was always too truthy-actually truth-for it anyway. He's too smart to get into that vipers nest I would imagine.

[Justitia]

70. I think Dean is providing cover to a lot of congress critters who hate the current bill.

Dean is known for telling the truth when it isn't popular and he can take the heat.

We've already seen House reps saying exactly the same thing.

I think by Gov Dean saying "the Emperor has no clothes", he is granting the secret wish of many elected officials who don't want to piss off
the administration.

[Le Taz Hot]

112. Excellent analysis.

I'll be anxious to see what Dems actually come out against this watered boon to the insurance companies.

[NashVegas]

152. I Suspect

Your post may be closer to the truth than some people realize.

[BonnieJW]

141. If someone on O's staff isn't reading this blog,

they're missing a great opportunity to see how the base is reacting. I think more of us would stand with Dr. Dean than with the current admin given the fact that the admin is selling us out to the corps.

[Hardrada]

And we know who we are dealing with now as we get back on the streets

and into active opposition to the Corporate Everything Complex!

[polichick]

2. They've pretty much shown all their cards now - and it's ugly stuff. nt

[madfloridian]

27. Today has been ugly.

[glitch]

52. Ugly indeed. But I for one welcome the exposure of our corporate overlords

Corrupt Bank Bailouts, Healthcare, WAR escalation, Climate.

It is always GOOD to KNOW. ALWAYS.

[tomp]

123. agreed. nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

11. I do. More disgusted Moderate Republicans might join the Democratic Party

and push its traditional members out.

[madfloridian]

15. Yes, it will become the Republican party...

and we "purists" who believe in standing for Democratic values will have no place to go.

[readmoreoften]

30. I've got places to go!

I've come to value politics in the street more than electoral politics. I think a revolution--an actual revolution--will happen before we get anyone in office who really represents us; and then it won't matter anymore. There's no way to finagle this system, in my opinion. It's not broken; it's working for the people it's supposed to benefit. "It's a big club; an' we ain't in it."

[librechik]

4. Let's just say 2012 is going to be a very different campaign for Obama

than 2008 was. Without Hope, what do you have? Oh, a great banking system that is choking itself to death rather than serve the public. No healthcare reform. And the wars still going on and on.

Happy New Year!

[slay]

28. Howard Dean 2012

I'd much rather that than see 4 more years of crap and selling out with Obama and we can NOT have a republican so... i'm hoping Dean will challenge him in the primary for 2012 at this point. :evilgrin:

[librechik]

29. unfortunately, Dean is way too smart for that. I have no doubt Obama will win again

If only because the republicans are so damn lame.

We need a Democrat, Barrack will do, to name our SCOTUS Justices. Only a little worried about that aspect of his presidency. Even then he appointed the most conservative liberal he could.

[yurbud]

144. a DLC president will give us pro-corporate justices

[suzie]

125. You really want to see Republicans hold the Presidency for the rest of your lifetime?

Why would any Democrat want that? Because it's exactly what you'll get if Obama is primaried.

[MessiahRp]

132. Frankly we're getting Republican rule anyway. So fuck the party.

Time to vote for the best man for the job, not just to keep Dems in power.

I want Howard Dean to primary Obama.

Rp

[suzie]

182. So you look forward to 30 years more of Presidents like George Bush?

You look forward to a whole Supreme Court of Antonin Scalia's?

Because that's exactly what you'll get if you primary Obama. Worked out so well in 2000 for the purists to vote for Ralph Nader and put George Bush in office so that we could have wars, economic devastation and Supreme Court Justices who want it to be 1850.

But, hey it's not about electing anyone, it's about the self-importance of those too pure for regular politics.

[MessiahRp]

184. Purity is a lame excuse for someone who is weak enough to accept lesser evil as acceptable.

If you really truly think that after what Obama has done and continues to do that the base will come out and work for/donate to/vote for him in 2012, I pity you. At least a primary would get Democratic voters out to make their voice heard. If it's Obama or nothing a LOT of people, including a large amount of the grass roots that got him elected, will stay home anyway.

WE the party activists and voters ARE the Democratic Party. Not Barack Obama and Rahm Emanuel. If our party is not being represented by Obama it makes ZERO sense to continue the charade in the name of another SC justice or two. The SC is just ONE of the many issues we have in this country and your solution is to take every corporate sell out that damages us worse for one or two SC justices. Pathetic really.

I'm very proud to not have to compromise my principles to the point that they no longer exist like you are willing to do.

Rp

[suzie]

196. Well, I met with a bunch of party activists today.

Not the kind who call themselves activists and mean whining on internet forums, but those who actually get out and work.

They didn't seem nearly so mired in hatred of all things Obama as those who trumpet the importance of never compromising their ideological principles--even if that means giving the country another 30 years of Bush-type administrations.

[tomp]

201. oooooo, i'm so afraid of your "activists".

of course they don't hate obama, they're obamaphiliacs. there's only one treatment for that.

[suzie]

202. My group of liberal Southerners who've voted Democratic all their lives, stood on street corners

waving signs in the most conservative communities in the country, let their names be used in ads for Democrats in those extreme conservative communities, who've registered voters while people drove by yelling profanities about Democrats, who've made phone calls to people that respond with racial slurs? My "activists" who've faced folks that threaten to "go home and get their AK47 and their bible"? To most of us, your reply would sound more like an utterance something that one would expect from the racial slur and AK47 folks than someone on a site for Democrats.

[Vincardog]

160. Which candidate of the 20% GOP party is going to win? That threat is so tired. We have a R president

NOW

[KoKo]

172. The way it's looking now...he might just give it up...like Johnson did.

Obama needs to weed out those in his administration who are leading him the wrong way. If he does that and he's who we think we voted for, he will get back on track. If he doesn't clean out Rahm, Geithner, Axelrod and some others behind the scenes and it keeps going down from here...I suspect he will decide not to run again. That's a long shot...but I wouldn't vote for him for a second term if this disaster train keeps running. I'm glad Dean and others are speaking out. Obama needs to listen now before things get worse for him and us.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Dean's got his own self to blame.

And Lieberman's still relevant for passing a bill.

[Hardrada]

8. WH Talking Point #12

[madfloridian]

9. Lieberman is the party's beloved Republican.

I have reached a new level of being a purist since I have seen this side of the face of the WH.

I have a lot of thinking to do.

[madfloridian]

12. Obama is the head of the party now.

When the attacks get down to a personal level from his WH, he is to blame.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Nothing to blame.

Dean fucked up. Somebody at the WH was asked about it. They gave the correct answer. Now Dean's walking it back.

[madfloridian]

20. Yes, that is the attitude they have now at the WH.

Just like yours.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Yes.

:shrug:

[girl gone mad]

38. Dean's not walking anything back.

I can't imagine how mind-numbingly bored you must get, posting this tedious drivel, day after day after day.

I kill enough brain cells just having to glance past the nonsense for a couple of seconds whilst perusing the board. I wager you've lost a significant chunk of IQ points over the months.

[tnlefty]

44. *snort*

Really, you made me snort. :thumbsup:

[Starry Messenger]

54. He's just been phoning it in lately, hasn't he?

:thumbsup:

[Duende azul]

143. Lol. You may have a point there.

I noticed how a once witty and sarcastic poster came down to what we see today.
He really could make me laugh even if he posted controversial stuff.
He used to produce DUzy worthy material without effort:
My alltime favourite:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x890210#890231

[Jax]

176. It's the Monsanto air they breathe

kills the IQ points for this one's posts.

[Jim Sagle]

61. Wow - 5 lies in 24 words, 4 sentences and 1 sentence fragment..

Nothing to blame.

That's lie #1. Obama's to blame for selling out on health care.

Dean fucked up.

That's lie #2. Dean told the obvious truth and he meant every word of it, and we needed to hear every word of it.

Somebody at the WH was asked about it.

That's lie #3, unless somebody at the WH told a reporter to ask about it.

They gave the correct answer.

That's lie #4. They didn't give the correct answer, they lied.

Now Dean's walking it back.

That's lie #5. Dean's not walking ANYTHING back.

Whatever you're paid to spew this shit, it's too much.

[pecwae]

98. "Whatever you're paid to spew this shit, it's too much"

and transparent as hell.

[Myrina]

110. ... what are you smoking?

:wtf:

How did Dean fuck up by being on the outside, trying to support the WH in getting meaningful reform passed, then calling foul when the Senate degraded the bill into a flaming shit sandwich?

[olegramps]

133. It takes a lot of work to be this fucked up.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

134. say anything you want. But look around too.

Sure, you can make your claim that DU doesn't represent Democrats as a whole, but I'm making that point for you so that you don't have to. But it's still significant. Obama has lost a lot of support here in a short period of time. It should be a wakeup call to centerists, and only a fool would claim that this trend is of no importance.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

154. Alright, I'm looking around me.

I'm seeing two freepers and three woo woos. I'm seeing Obama's poll numbers going up, not down. I'm seeing the public supporting health care reform. I'm seeing me supporting health care reform, and a bunch of jokers siding with the Republicans in trying to kill it.

There. That's what's around me.

[saracat]

158. Do you ever read? Do you even "Know" what the new poll numbers are?

Do you even read the Greatest page? Did you read this thread?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

161. best of luck to you when you meet reality

For my part, I don't harbor any illusions that progressives will mount a primary challenge to Obama, or anything even close. But if you don't believe that the collapse of progressive support for the administration is not significant, well, you're set to believe whatever it is you want or need to believe.

[CoffeeCat]

167. So "telling the truth" and fighting corporate corruption...

...is now "fucking up"?

That's sick. Deplorable.

Glad you represent a teeny tiny minority. I've heard other disagree with Dean's views, but
never say that speaking his mind is "fucking up".

If "fucking up" means refusing to bend over and kow tow to the corrupt corporations that purchased
our government--then I want to "fuck up" too.

Let's all "fuck up" together!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

168. I don't think you or Dean are doing either.

[Peregrine Took]

153. He misrepresented himself to get our votes - like Bush's "compassionate

conservative" ploy.

[AllentownJake]

13. and the apologist go marching on. nt

[laughingliberal]

17. To blame for what? He told the truth. What the hell does he care? What're they going to do to him

He is an example of someone who is not afraid to speak truth to power. And Rahm? I hope he chokes on those campaign contributions that were more important than those of us who needed some real reform in the criminal for-profit health care system in this country.

[Jim Sagle]

60. Not a bill that any actual Democrat would support.

And just how is it Dean's own fault? And what is the "it" you're talking about anyway?

[Smashcut]

84. To blame for what?

Telling the TRUTH?

[freddie mertz]

130. You should lay off that HiFructose stuff.

If Joe is looking good to you, you are in way too deep.

[truedelphi]

7. The Wh's chief occupant is the one that said:

"Single Payer is the best, cheapest and most effective solution, but unfortunately since we already have a system in place, and have to work within that system, we cannot think about going to Single Payer."

I have not expected any logic from the man, o rany in his Administration, since the day I became aware of him saying that!

[madfloridian]

31. MSNBC First Read: Snubbing Dean a mistake?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/16/2154105.aspx

"From NBC's Mark Murray
Over the past few days, much of the political psycho-analysis has focused on Joe Lieberman, wondering if his drubbing in the 2004 presidential primaries and his defeat in the 2006 Senate primary helped shape his opposition to the public option and, later, the Medicare buy-in.

Here's something else to think about: In retrospect, was Barack Obama's conspicuous snub of Howard Dean a big mistake, given the former DNC chairman's opposition to the Senate health-care bill moving through Congress?

Remember that when Tim Kaine was tapped to be the new DNC chairman, Dean wasn't at the Obama-Kaine press conference announcing the move. Instead, he was in American Samoa, but his allies maintained he would have canceled that trip had he been given a heads up about the press conference.

What's more, Dean never got a plum position in the Obama administration. Possibly adding insult to injury, few DNC aides who worked for Dean initially got top jobs in the Obama administration.

It all raised this question in Washington: Why did Obama opponents like Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Joe Lieberman receive better treatment from Team Obama than Dean received?"

[katkat]

89. Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Joe Lieberman

"Why did Obama opponents like Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Joe Lieberman receive better treatment from Team Obama than Dean received?"

For tonight's assignment, children, compare and contrast the principles and character of the former group, Rahm Emanuel, and President Obama with Howard Dean.

[regnaD kciN]

91. Two words: Rahm Emmanuel

Anyone who remembered the conflicts between them during the 2006 elections (when Rahm criticized Dean's approach at every turn then, when it turned out to be successful, tried to take credit for it himself :puke: ), would know that a White House where Emmanuel was CoS would be one where Dean was persona non grata. Petty and very, very sad. Picking Emmanuel was, IMHO, Obama's big mistake.

[debbierlus]

32. I know...they sent Landrieu, the DINO there is...SHAMEFUL

[madfloridian]

33. Video of Landrieu making herself look bad while lying about Dean

She said he wanted to "eliminate insurance companies" in America.

In fact he has done the opposite. He has been condemned here at DU for wanting private policies to be alongside public ones.

Note to Democratic leaders. When you send out your little attack dogs, don't give them talking points that are lies.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5405

[eilen]

118. I believe it has been well established that Landreiu has been bought

and paid for. I just would like to know who's hand it is working the sock puppet.

[madfloridian]

34. So glad to see Countdown defending Dean tonight.

O'Donnell and Olbermann were right on target...the "WH is afraid of him."

And they should adopt a different tactic than attacking him.

[natrat]

36. the obama people really are slipping

that folksy bullshit about the fat cat bankers was truly revolting and transparent

[AllentownJake]

37. They've lost their collective minds at 1600

Sunday you hear them bashing bankers, Wednesday you find out they arranged for tax breaks to pay back TARP.

[dflprincess]

57. Which I can't figure out

if they're getting tax breaks to pay back TARP - aren't they just using more tax money to pay back the debt? How are they paying back anything?

It's like Citibank sending me a check and then telling me to use it to pay off the balance I had with them before they sent the check.

[glitch]

56. They are banking on the ignorant.

What they don't get is that people aren't as reliably ignorant now that the corporate media isn't their only source of information.

IOW, the archaic tools of the repukes being resuscitated by the DLC. And they actually have the ear of our "young, brilliant" President.

It would be to laugh, if we had plenty of time and lots of potential options. As it is, it is to cry. And to get very, very angry (aka fucking livid).

[Justitia]

72. yes, it pains me to say that was really cheesy. -eom

[KoKo]

173. That was a major gaffe.. Made him look like a hypocrite...given his administration

is filled with them. I couldn't believe he said that with it sounding so fake. Then when he said the country could go bankrupt if the health care industry doesn't get this bill it reminded me of George Bush threatening us and then the bankers going to Congress saying the whole worlds financial system would collapse if taxpayers didn't give them their money NOW.

In between there was the "War Speech" when he accepted the Nobel Prize...but, I figured maybe he was just trying to keep the War Mongers at bay for him accepting a Peace Prize. But, putting it all together there's a picture of Obama is emerging doesn't seem to be the same man who ran for President.

It's very troubling.

[Dr.Phool]

39. I was just out in the garage looking for my old Dean for America sign.

I couldn't find it. I'll make my own.

[katkat]

104. old Dean signs

I changed my avatar to Howard. I love Eleanor Roosevelt, but it's time to stand by Howard.

I still have my Dean bumper sticker on my car.

[madfloridian]

40. I am very angry about this.

The only person they have attacked is Dean. I am furious.

[Capn Sunshine]

41. One word, MF------RAHM

This is his take. He was part of that cabal of corporate Dems that helped kill Gov. Deans campaign.

[madfloridian]

42. Yep.

Very true. I knew the day Obama picked him that we were going to have some problems.

[Capn Sunshine]

45. During our campaign conferences I thought he was a changed man

should have known better. He's singlehandedly undoing all the progress we've made since 2004.

[slinkerwink]

76. And Gibbs, who attacked Dean, worked on Gephardt's 2004 team

that did the Osama ad against Dean.

[mod mom]

94. the Democratic Karl Rove working against the American people's best interest:

:mad:

Before its portfolio of bad loans helped trigger the current housing crisis, mortgage giant Freddie Mac was the focus of a major accounting scandal that led to a management shake-up, huge fines and scalding condemnation of passive directors by a top federal regulator.

One of those allegedly asleep-at-the-switch board members was Chicago's Rahm Emanuel—now chief of staff to President Barack Obama—who made at least $320,000 for a 14-month stint at Freddie Mac that required little effort.

-snip

Though just 49, Emanuel is a veteran Democratic strategist and fundraiser who served three terms in the U.S. House after helping elect Mayor Richard Daley and former President Bill Clinton. The Freddie Mac money was a small piece of the $16 million he made in a three-year interlude as an investment banker a decade ago

-snip

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story

[katkat]

106. cabal of corporate Dems

I still remember Hillary and Chelsea laughing when Howard got that standing ovation at the Convention that year.

[laughingliberal]

43. Lieberman is well hated in the Democratic party as he should be. Funny, to be throwing their lot in

with a man who campaigned against them and has said he will campaign for more Republicans in the future. Perhaps President Obama is planning to jump parties. Any precedent for that? Backing Lieberman may get some Republican and RW independent votes but I don't think enough to get him reelected.

And the snubbing of Howard Dean? Totally explainable. Rahm hates him, opposed his 50 state strategy that gave us the large majorities we have now. Inconvenient, though. Without these large majorities they could have just blamed the Republicans for forcing the health care bill to the right.

[xiamiam]

47. haven't seen a wise decision out of the white house for a long time..nt

[HuckleB]

48. This is a side issue.

And Krugman is right.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[madfloridian]

50. No, not a side issue anymore.

And Krugman is not God either.

I usually agree with him, but not this time. If there is to be mandate, there need to be be other options.

[HuckleB]

51. No, he's not God.

He's just right on this matter.

This plan is not that off from what much of Europe does. And, no, I'm not pushing this Kaiser joker's opinion. I'm just pointing out that this plan isn't as horrific as many are making it out to be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-halvorson/point-5-a-double-mandate_b_357618.html

[madfloridian]

53. The plan is getting proper scrutiny from Dean....good for him.

The party leaders may blame him and attack him, but it makes matters worse.

I will not forget this day.

I will remember that Countdown defended him.

[HuckleB]

55. Well, I'd probably end up arguing with all of them.

If we end up with nothing, then I'm going to really argue with all of them, however.

[madfloridian]

58. They only care what Lieberman thinks.

[HuckleB]

59. Yeah, well, that's where we part ways, I suppose.

Have a good night.

:hi:

[Goldstein1984]

78. People are giving up on "party"

The more Dean is attacked, the more support he will get from the people on the street.

If Dean is smart, or if mainstream Democrats attack him enough, maybe he will also give up on party and become the leader that progressives need to be organized and make a difference.

[Le Taz Hot]

117. You have just stated my waking wet dream.

Dean running 3rd Party. It just couldn't GET any better. He won't, of course, but I'd like to have that fantasy nonetheless.

[fascisthunter]

120. Washington didn't believe in Party Politics

and now I see why.

[FourScore]

49. Well said, madfloridian! n/t

[flyarm]

62. Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:

snip:

Other sources, including the Hartford Courant, reported that Obama chose Lieberman as his mentor.]

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[madfloridian]

63. Yes, he was. I had forgotten that.

.

[RogueTrooper]

121. I can never forget that

[Oilwellian]

64. It really was a bad move

Their true colors are shining through. Good post madfloridian. I have a question for you. Did you know Obama was very close to Rahm before the election?

[madfloridian]

66. Yes, I knew that.

But I was still surprised when he picked him for CoS.

I was stunned when they introduced Kaine as new chair when Dean was in Samoa on party business.

[Zomby Woof]

65. Didn't you write off Dean some months ago?

I can't keep up.

[madfloridian]

67. I disagreed with him several times and sure I will disagree again.

But right now when the power of the Democratic elite are bearing down on him...I will defend him.

Believe it or not zomby, I am not some dumb person who does not see truth.

I admire Dean's role and all he has done, but he is too centrist sometimes.

[democracy1st]

71. thanks for using your brain!

[Enthusiast]

103. I think we all need to start

evaluating politicians based on their actions and not their words. Words can say anything. Take the vote on the reimportation of pharmaceuticals part of the health care agreement, for example.

Apparently, you are either with us, or against us.

[Jax]

177. Zomby...pathetic

not up yo your posts.

You still hate Dean? Teena brought me around to Kerry with facts and thought, you never would have convinced me to feel good about that vote.

She did.

Beneath you.

madfloridiaqn is solid.


Alyce

[Zomby Woof]

198. I like Dean, especially because of his tenure as DNC chair

As for 2004, it was always more about his batshit crazy supporters than HIM. I didn't mind Dean so much, but jeezus, 99.8% of his fanbase here on DU was - and there is no delicate way of putting this - crazier than shithouse rats. I chided Dean harder than I normally would have, just to rile the hornet's nest. It's not like THEY would have been able to convince me to vote for him - not with the insanity they produced on an hourly basis. But I am not interested in re-living the 2004 primary battles. Dean went on to do a GREAT job as DNC chair, and I donated to them for the first time in 20 years precisely BECAUSE of his stewardship. So put that in your little outrage pipe and smoke it.

I busted madfla's ass about Dean because 8 or 9 months ago, she wrote a melodramatic kiss-off post lamenting that he sold out, with lots of heavy sighs. It was full of resignation and pathos. She was too overcome with sorrow to blast him as a DLC corporate whore bluedog, but it was so sad and rife with disillusion and remorse. Despite her spin above, she wasn't merely "disagreeing" with him on a policy point or two. In her typical fashion, she bulldozed the point home over and over in that thread. She was as done with Dean as Elin is with Tiger.

That's fine that Teena spent time convincing you about Kerry. That's not my thing. If a person can't educate him or her self and make up their own fucking mind about a candidate, then fuck 'em. Teena knows that's where I come from, and I know where she comes from, and we love each other anyway.

As far as my posts being "beneath" me. Fuck, this is GD, which is more or less a constant cesspool. Trying to elevate discourse in here is like mining for gold in a pile of shit.

[Lugnut]

68. K&R n/t!

[AuntPatsy]

69. The final straw for myself...I am not only stunned by horribly dissapointed...

[Swamp Rat]

73. k&r

[madfloridian]

74. Comment on the WH website by a spokesperson...makes no sense.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/the-white-house-v-howard-dean.php?ref=fpb

"In a post today on the official White House blog, communications director Dan Pfeiffer called Dean's argument "perplexing" and said "this bill will finally wrest power away from the insurance industry and put it in the hands of American consumers."

I would love for him to really explain that.

[Enthusiast]

105. No sense! None.

If only it were true.

[katkat]

109. "this bill will finally wrest power away from the insurance industry"

They seem to have learned from the Repukes, say a lie often enough and a lot of people will believe it.

[slinkerwink]

75. We've got to take back the Dem Party just as we did in 2004 in electing

Dean to be the head of the DNC.

[upi402]

77. CNN slimed Dean on the "Aarrrgh" deal. He's great

and I think we have others who are as great or greater. They are the brave minority in the "Democratic" party.

[Goldstein1984]

79. CNN-Corporate media

I don't even watch them anymore.

There was no purpose in sliming him, they just did it to help sell viewers to their corporate sponsors.

[upi402]

80. I'm very cynical of their motives for sliming Dean

I haven't watched them in a looong time, and I was a news junkie, following them all. Just too sad.

MSNBC all the way!

[Goldstein1984]

82. MSNBC is the only mainstream program I watch anymore

Most of my news I get from scattered sources. It's no wonder that Americans are so ignorant of current events if the MSM is where they get their information.

[LaPera]

81. DLC Rahm Emanuel has hated Howard Dean, ever since Dean bitch-slapped

the arrogant corporate DLC liar Emanuel -

When Dean was chairman of the DNC and told the asshole Rahm who went to the DNC demanding money ONLY for his DLC candidates, insidting Dems just can't win in republican areas, (of course greedy ccoroporte Emanuel was to proved wrong by Dean)....

Dean told the completely out of line Emanuel that the money would be used instead for ALL democrat's in all 50 states. NOT just DLC candidates as Emaneul was demanding, however, the very astute & strong, no bullshit Dean told the pimp Emanuel that there absolutely would be a 50 state strategy for ALL Dems and basicly fuck off Rahm and get the fuck out of Dean's office.

The asshole Rahm went nuts & wanted DNC funds for his corporate moderate DLC "democrats" Dean rightly told Emanuel to fuck off and as it turned out Howard Dean was 100& absolutely correct.

Fucking corporate DLC, Emanuel, Blue-dogs & republicans.

Ever wonder why the extreme qualified progressive Dr. Howard Dean was passed over by DLC Obama & Emanuel for every and ALL White House appointed departments & position?

[democrank]

86. You`re so correct, LaPera.

Emanuel hates Dean and has done everything in his power to take Dean down since the doctor showed up on the national scene. DLCers like Emanuel don`t want truth tellers on center stage, they want the malleable corporate-leaning ass kissers.

[LaPera]

96. I agree with you too, democrank.

Sorry about my spelling (above post) I was on my notebook on Bart and typed it out quick and had no chance to correct it until after the hour time limit...too late.

[katkat]

111. yet we still see Dem sites believing Rahm

There was a post from DocJess on the DemConWatch blog just within the last week or three about how Rahm's "fifty state strategy" had won big for the Democrats.

[LaPera]

188. Well there's always a majority of clueless who will believe whatever mainstream media tells them

whatever they see & hear on mainstream media....And the Obama admin. does has the floor.

So the uninformed will always hear Rahm Emanuel's bullshit side, and most are simply satisfied with just one-side of a story usually the side with the most power & media pounding away.

Many are never concerned there might be another side, as they ignorantly translate what they hear & read from mainstream news onto forums and it also inevitably becomes their opinions.....

Shit, pigman Limbaugh is a master of this tactic over his ignorant sheep audience.

[Smashcut]

83. That Hardball segment was DISGUSTING.

Matthews kept talking over Dean, wouldn't let him get a word in, totally mischaracterizing his positions and basically saying Dean was trying to destroy the Senate itself.

Then Landrieu comes on, tells at least 3 or 4 easily refutable LIES (including that Obama never campaigned on a public option and that Dean was only interested in destroying the insurance companies) and Matthews kept pitching her softballs that seemed perfectly choreographed to get her narrative across. Finally Dean had to talk over both of them to set the record straight about her lies.

Disgusting.

[Enthusiast]

116. And MSNBC

is the "liberal" outlet. Matthews is often so bad that I have to turn it off. I remember Matthews and his role during the "get Clinton" effort in the 1990s.

[Wizard777]

85. If Obama absolutely INSISTS on playing nice with the Republicans THAT damned much.

Then I guess we should play nice with the republicans.......on his IMPEACHMENT. Maybe that will wake him up and snap him the freak back into reality. This is one of those really rare time when you have to say fuck the smart shit! We need someone in the White House with an IQ of 10 to walk into Congress and tell them. HEALTH CARE NOW! Or me SMAAAAASH you! Grind you to dust. :banghead:

[JTFrog]

87. Yea, Impeach Obama. Jump the fucking shark much?

This place has lost it's fucking collective mind. :crazy:

[Wizard777]

92. Health care jumped the shark with don't get sick and die quickly if you do.

The republicans are using his own strength against Obama. Change is good. But not if it perpetual. That's basically what health care has become. It's perpetually morphing. There is just no end to the changes in sight. You never see the same version twice. When they get something finalized that's when the changes really start.

Unless Obama wants any bill on his desk to re-legislate with some Bush signing statements. Like I take this bill as authorizing me to provide every american citizen with health care. Then we need to scrap health care and go a different route. Some members of Congress seem to think Americans aren't entitled to health care. That would also include the Americans in Congress. We should stop fighting for health care for America and fight to take health care away from the government. It's too easy for them to deny health care to America when they have it. It's no skin off their ass. We need to put them in the no health care boat.

[lib_wit_it]

90. Lol--SNL's TheROCK Obama!

[Wizard777]

93. EXACTLY! Look where SNL's political knowledge got Al Franken.

SNL's approval polls only go down when they move away from politics.

[tomp]

124. high crimes and misdemeanors?

if we couldn't impeach bush you think we will impeach obama?

[Wizard777]

156. You can't impeach a President for crimes any more. Now you have to do it for no real reason.

Like when they impeached Clinton.

[tomp]

199. alright then, let's impeach obama. nt

[laughingliberal]

88. Dean looks fine. They're making themselves look bad nt

[bkohatlanta]

95. Lieberman's Motto: Government of the Vicious Rich, For The Vicious Rich, By the Vicious Rich

He, personally, among many others, including President Obama, is responsible for the murder of 50,000-100,000 people who die because the have no money and no health insurance.
Lieberman believes in the Yachts for Millionaire Doctor's Plan. And all he has to do is murder 100,000 people a year.

[Geek_Girl]

97. I think it's pretty much shows that Obama and the White House never wanted

a progressive Bill in the first place. This was all about paying off their corporate masters. Basically it's all been a charade, to cover up another massive transfer of wealth to corporate America.

[chimpymustgo]

99. You have nailed it. They NEVER wanted a decent bill.

[Politicub]

100. It is questionable logic. More of the master chess game I suppose /sarc

I'm tired of politics as usual.

[orbitalman]

101. This lying goes right back to Rahm Emmanuel...

During the 'bush' years and Emmanuel as head of the DCCCC, the contentious relationship between Rahm and Dean. Rahm is essentially 'old fashioned' being from the old school (including lying) and Dean has been clearly progressive. Anyone putting Dean down has NO credibility whatsoever.

[formercia]

107. and the DLC. n/t

[Autumn Colors]

102. K&R (nt)

[JustAnotherGen]

108. I've ironically

Been dealing with serious health issues so I've not been around DU as much as I would like to be during this - eh? Dark Time for Democratics.

madfloridian - I agree 100% with everything you wrote in your o.p.

I'm re-thinking this administration.

Between Dean, Grayson, Weiner, Kucinich -

You really mean to tell me that the BEST we could do in 2008 with this group of clowns and jokers sitting in the WH? I won't be voting for Obama in 2012 if this is allowed to go through as it is. I simply won't. I won't drive people to the polls in PA as I did in the past election (I live in NJ over the border and they needed help out there). I won't make phone calls.

I will support a solid challenger in the primary (and someone on the left will if this doesn't go through). When Obama gets the nomination - I won't be giving one cent. I won't be supporting him with a vote. I'll go on a vacay to France during the election so I can be in a country -for just a few days - just so I can revel at being in a country that gives a shit about every citizen's health and well-being - not just the elites pockets.


Oh - and Thank You Dr. Dean. Thank you Ed. Thank you Keith. Thank you Reps Grayson and Weiner. You did the best you could. But it's dead.

[varelse]

113. To me, this says that people like Joe Lieberman mean more to the Democrats

than actual Democratic voters do.

Edit: looks like H2O man feels the same way: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7251344&mesg_id=7251344

[Jefferson23]

114. Dean speaks the truth, we all know this bill is beyond terrible.

That Obama has Gibbs make those statements about Dean, bad idea. As far as I'm concerned this looks like another means to tell the left, we really don't need you.

Big mistake imo.

[Jefferson23]

115. BTW, anyone know where we can e-mail Dean to lend him support and thanks for speaking the truth? n/t

[shireen]

191. democracyforamerica.com

Dean's brother runs it. Probably the best way to send him your thoughts.

i made a donation in honor of Dean yesterday. If folks can afford it, please help them out.

[Jefferson23]

195. Thank you shireen, much appreciated. n/t

[fascisthunter]

119. I Guess Their Ties to Corporate America are that Tight

well, he and the rest of this pathetic admin can go fuck themselves... enjoy your legacies assholes.

[defendandprotect]

126. Notice that Dean is "irrational" for attacking the current health are DEFORM . . .

Doesn't that echo the "silent scream" . . . ???

Dean is allegedly hysterical -- and presumably all the liberals/progressives rising

up are to be put down along with him for any objections to this new corruption and

betrayal . . .

:eyes:

[harmonicon]

127. well, duh?! AND?!?!

The party establishment (meaning, Senators, for instance) has always hated Dean and always been more conservative and corporate-ass-kissing than the people who vote for them would like. What is new about this?

Jesus fucking christ, I'm only in my early 30's, but 90% of the time I'd swear I was the oldest person around here, because I've seen all of this shit before, and it wasn't that long ago. Where the fuck have you people been? What reality have you been living in?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

140. ok, Einstein, we're all stupid and you're a genius. Do tell.

It's pretty egocentric to go around ranting about how you always knew they were bad (but decided to hang out here anyway). Newsflash, Albert: lots of us have been very suspicious for awhile now; you don't have the corner on that market. However, hope springs eternal (even if Hope and Change get derailed along the way). It's just that some of us have hit critical mass, the straw that broke the camel's back, etc. So please let go of your delusions that you're the only one who understands anything. There are many people who feel the way you do. They're locked up for the most part, in order to keep from harming themselves and others.

[shireen]

192. +1

well said!
:hi:

[Vidar]

129. Recommended. It's becoming apparent that the voters matter far less

to this president than the corporations that are destroying the country.

[ChiciB1]

131. I Totally Agree... Just Want Say That Howard Dean Has At LEAST

tried to work with this HCR, but it must have finally gotten to him! He said ENOUGH, and I support him completely! I'm so very disappointed and even VERY ANGRY that the WH chose to ATTACK him!

Just makes me think less of what the WH is doing for "we the people" and by attacking Dean, it seems to be "dirty work" from them!!

Switches & Coal in the Christmas Stocking for the WH and many staff members!

Thank you Dr. Dean!!

JMHO!

[janx]

135. One very unwise decision!

What on earth are they thinking?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

136. you're not kidding.

:(

ok, blood pressure starting to rise....gotta get out of here....

:argh:

[tomm2thumbs]

138. nuff said

[Unvanguard]

142. Lieberman has a vote and Dean doesn't. It's not rocket science. n/t

[FunMe]

145. It is a STUPID for Obama and his WH to attack his VOTING BASE

Dean speaks truth to power:

The current bill is CORPORATE WELFARE for the insurance industries.

It does nothing to help Americans and most people see that. For Obama and his WH administration not to see that shows arrogance and stupidity. At this rate I see the following coming:

- 2010 political bloodbath for the Democrats
- 2012 NO reelection of Obama

The days of "where are they going to go?", "you could have Sarah Palin" or "have patience" and "just vote for us because we are Democrats" are OVAH.

Ignore your voting base and your VOTING BASE will ignore you.

It's time to primary Obama and get someone like Dean. That's the way we should all channel our anger after Obama and the Democrats BETRAYAL of the American people.

The WH is stupid since they fail to see how angry the American people, Democrats and Independents are.

At this rate, when he loses, Obama can only look in the mirror to find out why.

[KakistocracyHater]

148. reveals his hand. You can tell what & where a leader is intending to do/go

by who is appointed as heads of depts., whether it is Queen Elizabeth 1st, FDR, W-this is how historians had an idea before the general population of just what W really was about. Looking at Obama........

[emsimon33]

149. What happens when we just stay home in 2010 and keep our feet up and our wallets closed?

Will they listen then? Or are they really all Republicans (Oligarchs) at heart?

[NorthCarolina]

150. Dean is not DLC. Lieberman is. Nuff said. (nt)

[floridablue]

151. Perhaps that is who the White House really is !

[stillwaiting]

155. They support a "man" who campaigned AGAINST Obama over Dr. Dean

They have continued to offer support to their political opponents, and continue to criticize, condemn, and ignore liberals and progressives.

They have lost me, and I can't believe it.

[David Zephyr]

157. Not only not wise. It was stupid to attack Dean. K&R.

I want this bill to go down. It's a travesty.

[BolivarianHero]

159. If Obama is with Lieberfuck over Dean, he's as bad as Chimp...

Every Democrat who backed Lieberman over Lamont should have been driven out with guns and torches.

[iceman66]

165. They don't need Dean's vote to pass the bill.

Simple as that.

[quiller4]

166. The White House doesn't have to try and make Dean look bad--the dear Dr. is doing a fine job of that

[EndElectoral]

169. Dean-Clark - 2012. I want an actual Progressive in the WH.

[shireen]

193. +1

love that general too!
:hi:

[Blue Owl]

170. Now we're seeing the true colors

And they ain't blue.

[sabrina 1]

174. Joe Lieberman & Rahm Emmanuel V Howard Dean!

Obama has made it clear whose politics he values more. DLC V Progressives and Obama, long suspected of being a DLCer despite denials during the campaign, has revealed where his loyalties lie. There were many signs, even during the campaign, but most of us even those who had misgivings, set them aside in order to get a Democratic Majority. I'm not sure what choice we had. Hillary would have been no different, maybe if possible, even worse. But one thing we know, Rahm and Joe would have been her choices also.

But what do we do now? The Democrats have virtually handed the next election to Republicans.

[BobRossi]

179. The "New Democrats"

What's up is down, what's in is out. Thank you DLC.

[mdmc]

180. Obama is much smarter then me

lets see if this turns to gold somehow..

[cilla4progress]

181. Howard has my vote and

my undying loyalty, forevermore.

[truedelphi]

185. Total Corporate Sell Outs do not care one bit if they are wise or not

Hell, we all know the voting machinery is in worse shape now than in 2004.

And so even if Obama doesn't "Win" he can still be the "WINNER."

All he has to do is continue to please the Corporate Masters.

[bridgit]

186. Nope, not good, it smacks of political naivete and political cowardice both

[DailyGrind51]

187. That's for damn right!

Joe will turn the knife, if not in 2010, certainly in 2012.

[Major Hogwash]

189. Landrieu sucks. Always has, always will. She lies out both sides of her mouth.

Especially when she said that the healthcare bill would escalate the deficit - when it actually saves money!!

She's not just stupid, she's box o' rocks stupid.

[Jakes Progress]

190. K&R. Of course. nt

[democracy1st]

194. K & R

[pissedoff01]

197. Vile and idiotic move

[madfloridian]

203. Kick

Because it is getting worse.