I'm not sure if I want the bill to die, but if it gets killed...

[Cant trust em]

then at least it will show that the progressives aren't going to be taken for granted.

There have to be better reasons than that, but it would be a plus.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Progressives will get blamed, not Republicans or even the ConservaDems.

[rucky]

4. 'fraid you're right.

chickenshits will continue to rule the day.

[rwheeler31]

2. I want something to pass. We need a win.

[regnaD kciN]

6. I want something to pass that will BE a win, instead.

[lapfog_1]

7. How is the current bill a "win"? - n/t

[grahamhgreen]

9. Let's just pass a bill that guarantees half your check goes to United Health Care forever - WIN WIN!

[BeatleBoot]

3. This Constitutional Republic

with it's representative government that's worked since this country's inception.

Sometimes I just want to.....

:banghead:

at the same time that I....

:patriot:

[Cant trust em]

11. I couldn't agree more.

Sometimes it's really infuriating that someone from a state that only a few more residents than the city I live in gets to drive a process. On the other hand, if it weren't that way, the good citizens of Montana wouldn't have any representation at all.

[regnaD kciN]

5. I know what you mean...

I go back and forth over whether this bill should be flushed or not, but I sure can't stand a supposed-"progressive" administration kowtowing to someone like Lieberman while publicly trashing the reputation and character of the person who built the party back from the 2004 debacle because he dares to disagree with the administration, not to mention trotting out the former-public-option-backers to dutifully make a big public statement on how they have now "seen the light" and realize that the public option wasn't really necessary (and joining in the two-minute hate for Emmanuel Deanstein as well). There's just something noxiously Stalinist about the whole show...as if dissenters on the left (you know, the ones that are responsible for Obama getting elected in the first place) are now The Enemy.

:puke:

[treestar]

14. The kowtowing stuff has to stop

It's ridiculous. Lieberman is there and a force to be reckoned with. They have to get his vote. It's the Senate that has been elected and is there and is for real.

They have to compromise, that's what it is about. It is about one person not having all the power. We didn't like it when Bush and Cheney tried to assert the executive doing whatever he wants. So why is it OK to make that demand now, and worse, to slam people as "kowtowing" because they recognize that and work with the system the way it is supposed to be?

President Obama said we will not abandon our ideals and our system. He never intended to push people around and bully them. He respects the Senate and the House as part of that structure.

[grahamhgreen]

8. I want us to be blamed - we need to show our spine.

[treestar]

10. Same as the Blue Dogs can't

Both sets of Dems will have shown that if they can't get what they want, the party can suffer.

Some party.

[Cant trust em]

12. When do the Blue Dogs get taken for granted?

They seem to get what they want pretty consistently. When has there been a truly progressive piece of legislation? If you can give me an example I'll probably have some more faith in our system.

[treestar]

13. They don't get what they want if the progressives hold out on the bill

Maybe the party is too big a tent. It is funny how people think the majority allows the Democratic president to get what he wants, because when a Republican president has a Repuke majority, he does. So they assumed it would be the case for President Obama. But it's not, since the party is over such a large spectrum of left to right. So we get this accusation of "spinelessness." But it's really that the Democrats don't agree on everything, since they cover too much ground.

[Cant trust em]

15. Please show me some examples where the progressives get what they want

and the blue dogs have received the pressure to go along.

Thanks.