I'm going to jail, who's with me?

[asdjrocky]

If they mandate I buy health insurance that I can't afford I will happily go to jail. There I will get a roof over my head, three meals a day, something constructive to do and I'll get free health care. All provided by the state. Do the math, it's not a bad deal.

What about you guys?

[HuckleB]

1. I'll try to stay out of prison myself, thanks.

[freddie mertz]

2. Since I have a pre-existing condition, jail may be my only hope.

Hope I can believe in!

[AndrewP]

10. Yes, Hope we can really believe in!

[Fuzz]

12. Heh, sad but true. Those of us with chronic conditions are screwed.

[Kansas Wyatt]

47. Hope you can believe in...

Maybe you can be on his Change Gang too.

[freddie mertz]

53. "Change Gang"! Wish I'd thought of that! nt.

[asdjrocky]

97. That is, as they say, a good one.

:applause:

[theHandpuppet]

135. Same here

At least if I'm in prison I could get a health care plan.

[Celebration]

172. under the bill

they can't take pre existing conditions into account, I thought?

:shrug:

[sakabatou]

3. Off to prison too...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. My dear asdjrocky...

I'd go with you, except I've got Medicare...

Such a lame excuse!

I'm so sorry, sweetie...:cry:

[asdjrocky]

9. You are so lucky.

Man I never thought I'd say this, but I sure wish I was 65.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

I know how lucky I am...

And how much I wish Medicare were covering everyone, the way it was originally designed.

:hug:

[Hannah Bell]

24. for how long? defunding it is where some of the "savings" come from...

there's a reason they didn't do the obvious & expand medicare when it came to reforming health care.

it's in the bulls-eye.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

65. No idea...

[leftstreet]

5. Sign me up

How ironic would it be if Civil Disobedience comes down to refusing to buy their crappy insurance!

[EFerrari]

6. I can't go to jail because they'll put my animals down.

I'll just have to go on the lam. Anyone have a hippy van I can trade for? :)

[asdjrocky]

13. We'll start an outlaw commune.

All we need is an old school bus.

[BeHereNow]

18. I'm down for that!

Maybe Fly By Night will let us crash on his farm!
Bernie?

BHN

[EFerrari]

25. There's 20 acres right here and at the rate the county is giving us permits

we could all crash here for the next fifty years. lol

[BeHereNow]

27. Can we grow food there and cultivate some livestock?

If so, count me in.

BHN

[asdjrocky]

32. I'm one hell of a gardener.

I can grow anything. :smoke:

[BeHereNow]

36. Well since none of us will have healthcare, guess we better grow some!

Sounds like a plan to me!
:smoke: :thumbsup: :hi:

BHN

[EFerrari]

40. I used to dry rose petals for potpourri on big screens under the porch.

:)

[asdjrocky]

109. The hell you say!

I've heard of that.

[EFerrari]

37. Yep but if the county inspector shows up, we hide or we're cleaning up the stream!

There are also really smart ants here in Spring and Summer. They wait until the corn is ripe before they eat it. :)

[arcadian]

58. I'm down with the commune.

I know where there is cheap land in Colorado, not far from Toas, NM.

[bvar22]

152. Colorado is beautiful,

...but if you want to actually GROW something,
the Deep South is the best place.
Fertile Land
Inexpensive Property
LONG growing Season
Abundant water
NO building codes, permits, or inspections in most rural areas
Low cost of living
Low Winter energy costs (Wood stove, cut and split your own hardwood)

There are some drawbacks like ignorance, fundamentalism, poverty, lack of Social Services, lack of good jobs, HOT muggy Summers.


We felt the trade off was worth it, and are happy with our choice, Ouachita Mountains, Arkansas.
Inexpensive property,
on property underground Spring, abundant clean, clear spring water.
Surrounded by extensive National Forest, Plenty of game.
Low Property Tax,
Build what we want when we want to (No permits),
No Industry, Factory Farms, or Urban Pollution for many miles.

If you are looking, do NOT underestimate the importance of clean, abundant, accessible WATER.

[Ghost in the Machine]

44. Well, if Bernie can't put ya up, I can..

He's not too far from me, maybe two hours.. but I've got 12.5 acres out in the country here in East Tennessee :-)

Come on by.. take your shoes off and stay a while :hi:


Peace,

Ghost

[OneGrassRoot]

55. LOL, your sig sign......about abstinence

:rofl:


:yourock:

[Ghost in the Machine]

94. Thanks, but I can't take credit for it..

I stole it off the landover baptist church website

:hi:

[EFerrari]

19. LOL. An old school bus and wifi.

:rofl:

[asdjrocky]

35. I would so be in.

When we run out of money we'll cruise Wall Street and mug banksters.

[me b zola]

163. No reason to run out of money

Extra cows and goats for making cheese for sale. Sell excess garden harvest. Lots creative and talented people here with skills to manufacture goods and provide services.

[OneGrassRoot]

33. Sweet

:hippie:

[asdjrocky]

52. Dude, you are so there. nt

[PufPuf23]

62. Those were the days my friends! nt

[shadowknows69]

130. Don't y'all start one without me.

I'm not in much shape to help till the land these days, but you'll find something for me.

[WolverineDG]

101. We can start a website

Uninsured Underground

:)

dg

[EFerrari]

104. LOL!

Okay, we need a bus, wifi and a website. :)

[asdjrocky]

111. That is a Duzy.

[OneGrassRoot]

118. +1 LOL n/t

[grantcart]

7. Me - they got great health care there too!

[muntrv]

8. What if we all refused to buy health insurance? They can't jail ALL of us!

[Mari333]

14. THAT is the plan I hope for if they pass this piece of shit bill

massive unrest, people saying NO WE WONT

let them come and get us.

Im not buying one cent into this ripoff .

[asdjrocky]

45. Now you're using you noodle.

[itsrobert]

11. Why should the State pay? It's a federal mandate.

It should be provided by the feds.

[asdjrocky]

15. Very good point Robert.

Everybody knows Fed prison is better than state. Even better!

[Jackpine Radical]

30. Make sure you're wearing a hwite collar when they come for you.

Everybody knows the white collar Fed prisons are infinitely better than the ones where they put the drug dealers.

[asdjrocky]

48. I've been in the county jail in Stockton Ca.

Not too much I haven't seen.

[Jackpine Radical]

74. I've been in every jail in NW Wisconsin and most of the prisons in the state.

Not to mention the state mental hospitals.

Forensic psychology is fun.

[asdjrocky]

77. My daughter is interested in that.

She's in college now. It must be fascinating, and a lot of hard work.

[pitohui]

71. many drug crimes are federal offenses

but don't let not knowing what you're talking about stop you from talking
or anything radical like that...

[Jackpine Radical]

124. I was distinguishing between 2 classes of Federal prison, i.e.

the minimum-security paces and the medium to maximum ones. White-collar criminals tend to get sent to the minimum-types. But don't let the opportunity for a nice snark get in the way of your comprehending what someone's writing.

[timeforpeace]

21. The ultimate unfunded mandate. Unfunded, coercive, creating a new criminal class. Hope and change!

[Goldstein1984]

16. I'm fortunate enough to have good health care coverage

And I'm saving my vacation for some jail time if there are any good anti-war protests next spring in Washington, D.C.

I hope they schedule one for when the cherry trees are blooming.

[xiamiam]

46. march 13..camp out now...cindy sheehan setting up camp across from the white house

i think i'll go too..i also think every major city should host one as well...a national strike or something...this is beyond bullshit

[Goldstein1984]

78. Yes, that one looked good.

Pre-cherry blossom, but sure to get press. A good show would send a powerful message.

[xiamiam]

82. time to get organized..nt

[StarfarerBill]

17. Yo.

I'm not going to bankrupt myself for a year or two of insurance; I do hope to live longer than that, even if it's in prison.

[TomCADem]

20. You Could Do That Now, Just Evade Taxes...

Why should the status of health care reform matter?

[asdjrocky]

23. Buddy, I don't make enough money to evade taxes.

Now don't you think if I was worried about the taxes I pay I'd have health insurance?

[goldcanyonaz]

22. My job affords me great coverage, I'm surely one of the lucky ones.

[HipChick]

26. How many times are people jailed for not having auto insurance?..

[asdjrocky]

39. Often in California, especially if they are poor and can't pay the fine.

I know two people it has happened to.

[tonysam]

28. Anything like that becomes law, and the Democrats will never

be in the majority again.

What a hell of a fucking deal. We need to get rid of ALL of the U.S. Senators. They are worthless pieces of corrupt shit.

[arcadian]

70. The US Senate is a Country Club.

[closeupready]

156. 62% of Senators are outright millionaires; median net worth is $1.7M.

Read it and weep.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/10/as-economic-storm-brewed-congr.html

[bluedigger]

29. Hey there, bunkie!

At last, crime will truly pay...

[freddie mertz]

31. Wow. In August I stood loyally with the president. TODAY I am contemplating

.. seriously contemplating, the possibility of massive civil disobedience against the same president.

How did this happen?

Will I live long enough to read the definitive book on the subject?

Will we still HAVE books?

Will it be available in the prison library where they lock me up with the other previous conditioners?

[HuckleB]

38. Say what?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[freddie mertz]

50. So Krugman is back on the bus now? nt.

[HuckleB]

56. What I like about Krugman, is that he doesn't let emotion get in the way of making life better.

Even when it should be a whole heck of a lot better.

[freddie mertz]

68. I respect his opinion, but disagree with it.

This mandate is pure poison.

[HuckleB]

73. OK, so we disagree.

I'm not happy with doing it this way, but it's not unprecedented.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-halvorson/point-5-a-double-mandate_b_357618.html

Yeah, I know the piece is buy a Kaiser dufus. I'm not pushing the piece, just the information in the piece that shows this isn't all that off base from what the rest of world does.

[no limit]

34. You won't go to jail for not buying health insurance.Facts are a bitch, arent they?

[asdjrocky]

41. So if I refuse to buy insurance what will they do?

[HuckleB]

59. Well, there is that garnishing wages thing.

You could then quit your job, of course, but...

[asdjrocky]

I can be a stubborn fellow. nt

[HuckleB]

72. Well, the street's not much fun at bed time, IMO.

[shadowknows69]

137. Some of us don't have jobs to lose.

And a 10% wage garnish can mean the difference between paying rent or not.

[no limit]

140. Where did you get 10%?

Did you make this number up?

[shadowknows69]

150. No, that's the amount they are allow to garnish your wages

Been through it, didn't make it up.

[no limit]

151. Source for this? Last time I read the tax increase would be a max of 2%

now if you are talking about garnishing your wages because you refuse to pay your taxes then thats a different story that has nothing to do with this health care bill.

[shadowknows69]

154. But the fines they will levy they'll be able to garnish the same 10% as any ruiling against assets

And again, my source is that my wife and I have been through it. Sorry I don't have anything more official than that.

[no limit]

155. I believe you the IRS can garnish 10%. But that's a false argument

They garnish your wages when you don't pay your taxes. As long as you pay your taxes then you don't have to worry about it. This is no different than if congress increases your taxes in any other way. So this will not cost you 10% of your wages, at most it will cost 2% if you can afford insurance but simply refuse to buy it.

I'm really hoping that they drop the mandate which is starting to look likely, if they don't I do hope this bill dies. But it's simply not accurate to say that you will go to jail if you don't pay the fine or that the IRS will garnish 10% of your wages for not buying insurance.

[shadowknows69]

159. We can't afford insurance anyway. We will get fined.

[no limit]

160. No you won't. You'll get a subsidy

that doesn't mean this is a good bill. But have you actually taken any time to study how this bill would really affect you?

[shadowknows69]

161. If there's no price controls the subsidy, which I assume we won't get until tax returns

Won't do us a bit of good. Until my wife's last paycheck we had 11 dollars in our account. Any new costs and we're homeless. Period.

[no limit]

162. Have you considered medicaid?

[shadowknows69]

165. Don't you think I would have tried that by now?

We don't qualify. We're in the cracks of the system. Make too much to qualify, which the threshold is like 16K a year BTW, and too little to survive. Any further suggestions?

[no limit]

121. Increase your taxes by up to 2% assuming you can afford the insurance but just refuse to buy it

[yodoobo]

126. true - you go to jail for not paying the fine.

As long as you pay the fine levied by the IRS, you don't have to buy health insurance.


Now if you don't pay the fine, then you are subject to all the standard tools that the IRS has to make people comply. Which includes jail and seizure/sale of your assets.

[shadowknows69]

138. The when/if it passes I might as well just turn myself in

Before my poor wife gets stuck paying for both our fines.

[Fla_Democrat]

42. I'm too pretty to go to jail

Hey, it's worked in the past. I'd call that a legal precedence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=145x6084




:evilgrin:

[WeDidIt]

43. At least it's three hots and a cot

not to mention free healthcare.

[SOS]

49. Nobody is going to jail

they'll just add it to your back taxes and take it out of your Social Security, or estate if the system kills you before 65.
If you're broke and die before 65, you're all set.

"United We Stand"!

[EFerrari]

51. So people hanging on by their fingernails should just let go.

Your credit will be ruined but it's all good.

[PSzymeczek]

81. My credit's already ruined.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

[EFerrari]

84. I hear that!

[closeupready]

157. Take another little piece of my heart, now, baby!

:rofl: :hi:

[Usrename]

54. Sadly, that's right.

Jail is too good for those deadbeats!

:banghead:

[HuckleB]

60. Yup.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[intheflow]

57. Can I bring my dog?

No? Well, we'll just have to live under a bridge, off-the-grid, to avoid incarceration.

[asdjrocky]

61. We're getting a band of criminals together to go on the road.

You are welcome to come.

[shadowknows69]

139. Someone teach me to shoot and I'm there.

I've played shooter video games all my life so my aim should be pretty good at least.

[countmyvote4real]

63. I hear ya: Mandate + Debtors Prison = Health Care Reform

I can't afford it now, so I've got no way to pay for it anyway. I wonder how much time/coverage we'll get.

[tranche]

64. Do you pay for health insurance now?

[HuckleB]

66. Most people who have insurance, do pay.

It's a part of their employment. Or they have paid into the system all their lives.

[pitohui]

67. since i can actually DO math i know just how stupid this post is

i'll leave aside the lies and misinformation that you are spreading, because you know as well as i do that no one is going to jail for not buying health insurance, i'll just ask you this -- do you know ANYTHING about jail? have you ever even met anyone who has gone there?

your fantasy of free health care in jail is just that, a ridiculous fantasy, health care in jail is so awful that there are routine stories of women being forced to give birth in shackles and having a baby isn't exactly the most advanced tech medical problem that a jailhouse doctor will face

and i love the fantasy of "something constructive to do," um, you do realize that not everyone in jail automatically gets a job, it's a privilege that is earned, and a malingerer is not going to earn it

oh, you're not a malingerer? you're really sick? guess what, you're in fucking jail, how do you propose to get a second opinion and PROVE you're really sick and in need of care

this whole thread is ridiculous beyond belief and you should be ashamed of yourself

[arcadian]

75. no it isn't

[RoyGBiv]

80. Yes it is

[arcadian]

105. No... It Isn't.

[RoyGBiv]

106. Ah yes ...

You want room 12A, just along the corridor.

[arcadian]

108. Thank you, my good man

What were we talking about again? :P

[RoyGBiv]

112. No idea ...

:hi:

[asdjrocky]

76. Honey, baby-

I've been to jail. I'm not one of those people that gets scared by the TV shows.

As far as I'm concerned if you can not understand irreverence, then it is your loss.

And anyone that can support what the Congress and the President are doing to us should be the one that is ashamed.

(Oh yeah, I had two teeth taken out in jail, they did a great job.)

[pitohui]

87. with your outlook i'm not surprised you lost two teeth to jail

i'm a little surprised it wasn't more, to be honest

there's irreverence and there's dishonesty, and i'm tired of humoring dishonesty

[asdjrocky]

91. Funny.

The dentist took them because I had a tooth ache.

Have a nice day now.

[TicketyBoo]

103. My dentist

saves my tooth when I have a toothache. He fills it.

The only teeth I've had extracted were wisdom teeth because there wasn't room in my mouth for them. But maybe it was your wisdom teeth that were bothering you? If not, you received substandard care, at least in my experience.

[asdjrocky]

107. Actually, it was my wisdom teeth.

They were impacted. It wasn't like anyone brought me soup or anything, but I had a problem and they took care of it.

Out in the real world the only choice a person without any insurance has when they have a toothache is pain or a free clinic. The clinic here in Stockton, armpit of the world? You have to show up Monday morning at 3am just to stand in line. At 7am they give out tickets based on your need and pain level. Lucky people get to be seen that day. The do not fill, they only extract.

It's a tough old world out here buddy.

[TicketyBoo]

117. You're a bit luckier than I was, in one way.

When my first wisdom tooth became impacted, it was so badly infected that I had to take antibiotics for two weeks before they could pull it.

Out in the real world the only choice a person without any insurance has when they have a toothache is pain or a free clinic.

Actually, you can pay to go to a dentist. That's what I did. My dentist will take payments. Most will. Nobody should have to go without dental care. Find a compassionate dentist who is willing to take payments.

I wouldn't give up any tooth (except my wisdom teeth, which were just pains-in-the-mouth) unless there was no way of saving it.

[1]

69. i don't know, bud. i'm pretty sure those "3 meals" and "healthcare" are not what you think they are.

as for the "something constructive to do" i guess i will leave that to your own interpretation...

[laughingliberal]

79. Food, shelter, health care. I'm so there.

Have no health care now. Do eat most days. Likely to lose my shelter soon. No downside for me. Will miss my husband but I'm sure they have visiting hours. And he would be relieved of the stress of worrying how we keep me alive til I can have Medicare.

[pitohui]

86. actually don't be too sure, not all states do have marital, um, visits

in many states the reality is that if you go to jail, you will lose yr husband

conjugal visits are not guaranteed, hell, for that matter neither is the three meals a day

"no downside for me" -- really? being able to touch and hold your spouse is worth...nothing...to you? your freedom is worth...nothing...to you?

the guy who started this post had "two teeth removed in jail," you can be pretty sure they were removed by somebody's fist making contact with his mouth, stick angry people together in a small space and fights do happen

there is plenty of downside, romanticizing jail is just not right

[1]

92. heh. i think she is just *fuckin wit choo*. but i could be wrong...

[laughingliberal]

116. You know, we're a bit...um...older. Conversation suffices for us

I rarely see 3 meals in a day, now. One or 2 and I'll survive. Freedom is a little restricted by poverty, too.

[Historic NY]

83. umm.... Bubba is a big guy.

[shadowknows69]

167. I'm a big fucking guy too. He'll know I showed up.

[calico1]

85. Not only that...

but no more mortgage payments either.

[varelse]

88. I'm going to stay employed and free as long as I can

My state's overcrowded, bloated prison system can't afford to house everyone who can't afford this mandate.

[asdjrocky]

95. Exactly. nt

[varelse]

99. Hehe

I hadn't really looked at it that way :D

[asdjrocky]

102. Civil disobedience knows many faces and forms. nt

[waiting for hope]

89. K&R

Nice logic there Rocky - :thumbsup:

[asdjrocky]

93. I'm at heart a pretty simple guy.

[cowcommander]

90. No thanks

Considering how they like raping weak guys there, I'd be someone's bitch in prison. I'd rather be dead! :(

[girl gone mad]

96. I'm with you.

But I can afford good lawyers. I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb.

[MSchreader]

98. If I have to go to the federal pen, so be it, but...

I'd rather organize an active resistance against this barbaric class warfare.

Now, who's with me on that?

[WolverineDG]

100. You get free health care in jail!

three hots & a cot, plus tv, too.

dg

[Lydia Leftcoast]

110. I think there will be massive civil disobedience if this goes through

At least I hope that people don't accept it and end up struggling.

[MilesColtrane]

113. You may not get the chance for civil disobedience unless you're self employed.

Since the fine for not having insurance will likely be a tax penalty, refusal to pay would lead to the IRS garnishing your wages.

If you work for someone other than yourself, and push comes to shove, the government will get its cut before you ever see your paycheck.

[asdjrocky]

114. I work for myself.

So I get to be one of the first to go.

[MilesColtrane]

115. Remember to wear flip flops in the shower.

That MRSA is a bitch.

[1]

119. ummm... i think that is "soap on a rope"...

[ZombieHorde]

120. I believe I will qualify for medicaid since I make under $29,000,

so I will not be going to jail.

[Le Taz Hot]

122. Only a bad deal

if they send you to Fresno.

[dionysus]

123. spare us the breathless melodrama. no one will throw you in fucking jail.

:rofl:

[asdjrocky]

141. So if you don't get dramatic over 45,000 people a year dying,

tell me, what do you get dramatic about? Maybe when a million a year die? Two million?

[dionysus]

146. i'm addressing your tantrum, you're just piling melodrama on top of melodrama.

posture all you want, i garauntee you're not going to purposefully attempt to get thrown in prison.

just another tantrum on a message board.

[monmouth]

125. I really hate bologna..but...will Keith be with us? Could be fun....n/t

[kctim]

127. Nothing new

many people have been doing that with the income tax for a while now. Not sure they would say its not a bad deal though.

[shadowknows69]

128. That's the prevailing option at this point.

[Iggo]

129. Been there.

I'll pass.

[walldude]

131. Fuck that. I'll see those motherfuckers in court..

Come and get me...

[NNN0LHI]

132. I am claustrophobic

:-(

[ProdigalJunkMail]

133. everytime i see this i can't help but think of Bluto in Animal House

Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...

Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!

[Jamastiene]

134. Proponents of the mandate against the poor and lower middle class

are severely disadvantaged here.

By being too financially stable (out of touch) to be able to relate to our situation in life, they TOTALLY MISCALCULATED just how much this is going to cost them in the long run.

They cannot seem to grasp the simple fact that people who have nothing...have nothing to lose.

They will pay way more to build the prisons, hire staff, run the electricity and water for the prisons, clothe us, feed us, and provide FREE (to us) medical care.

The ones of us who do try to buy the mandated insurance will go homeless and end up cluttering up the streets.

So, while they pay more for those of us who go to prison, they will have to step over homeless people everywhere they go too.

Cities who have adopted laws that imprison homeless people will fill up even more prisons.

There will be more prisons than churches, banks, and country clubs in this country at that rate.

All of this is going to cost WAY WAY WAY more than it would have to just offer universal health care.

They won't like that very much, but by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.

So, if you go to jail for not letting them force you to buy overpriced insurance from the greedy scumbags who are sucking this country dry like rabid leeches and controlling Congre$$' every move, I'll be in jail too. :fistbump:

[asdjrocky]

144. We'll keep a bunk warm for you!

[tom_paine]

136. We were right about Edwards and Obama, Rocky.

Edwards' own personal failings (even though for Repugs serial adulteries and diaper-wearing are NEVER reasons to leave politics) made that impossible, but now it's crystal clear we were right to support him as the only candidate that even remotely sounded like he might help us and our nation.

Now, as milquetoast Obama, who as with nearly all Democrats (except Edwards and a handful of others), is too weak to say "boo" to the Repugs but turns with savage glee at the prospect of beating up on a Democrat like Dean.

Sorry to bust in on your health care thread, but I haven't talked to you since well before the election, and I just thought you should know.

Here we are back at the beginning, and our first impression of Obama the Corporate Milquetoast was correct.

He do talk purty, though, don't he?

[asdjrocky]

I remember telling everyone I could talk to in Iowa

that I liked Obama, but I was very concerned about his ties to Goldman Sachs, but no one wanted to listen.

Too late for them to listen now, isn't it?

[Cleita]

166. Hear! Hear!

:thumbsup:

I thought Edwards had the only workable health plan. I wonder though if he would have been able to make Congress do what he wants.

[tom_paine]

178. We have never seen a President attempt to bust through the phony RW Conventional Wisdom of the

Corporate M$M.

Obama has barely...JUST barely...even attempted to do that with his early talk of Cable TV News Blather and challengings of Fox "News". But he quickly gave up and came nowhere near the bluntness of speech required to illuminate the problem. Doing so would have risked him MAJOR corporate support on many levels.

Edwards was doing just that, so they turned his volume knob down. All they have to do really - out of sight out of mind here in the Empire of TV.

But the question is, had he kept his d*ck in his pants and HAD he become President, and HAD he continued to walk the walk he talked and just spoke plainly and directly to the people, maybe it would be possible to harness public approval against the whole Corporate Structure and it's armies of PR Men and propagandists, their stranglehold on the media and the infantilized National Dialgoue...

Though as I annunciate it, and what an unbelievably uphill battle it would be and how easily the Bushies and the Corporate M$M made mincemeat out of Obama in the shortest possible time even as he was bending over backward and Clinton/DLCing them, I have to wonder if any reality can break through the controlled insanity of The American Hologram that has infantilized a nation and regressed it back to perhaps medieval levels (in some psychological ways that will become evident if things get economically bad - and are already evident in the mainstreaming of absolutist and eliminationist talk).

Could Edwards have done it against THAT? Could any one person?

Welcome to Room 101.

[Vinca]

142. Maybe we could go to Iraq - after all, our tax dollars are paying for

government-sponsored health care there.

[shadowknows69]

168. And apparently there's currently less shooting there.

If you take my city and the one 70 miles south of me as an example. Fucking gang warfare on the streets, but "We're spreading Democracy".

[Leftist Agitator]

143. And rape. You'll get a lot of that too.

[asdjrocky]

149. Party pooper.

Have you ever been to jail?

[Leftist Agitator]

176. Jail? Yes. Prison? No.

[Ninga]

145. I'm in!

:hi:

[asdjrocky]

148. Ninga!!!

It's like the old gang is all getting together to go to jail. Just like old times. :hi:

[stevietheman]

147. I wonder if people are already committing crimes just to get the health care in prison. n/t

n/t

[shadowknows69]

170. Or even just a roof. We've had several people up here go back in

Merely days after getting out.

[MidwestRick]

153. Who are you...

to say what you can and cannot afford to buy? :sarcasm:

[AngryAmish]

158. I was just there - it sucks

Just visiting.

[MuseRider]

164. I will be going

because I get my drugs from Canada and India. I take a med that I need that costs over $10.00 a pill. I need one a day. I have to take it. I can get it from India for $1.00 or less. We could get it here for only a small amount more than that too but the patent has not run out yet and there is no generic available. So, if they do not allow it are they going to throw all of us in jail for that too?

We can't get regular insurance because of pre existing conditions. My guess is that with the conditions we have the cost would be enormous and we would exceed our annual limit very quickly if either of us really begin to suffer from it. Our catastrophic insurance is $30,000.00 deductible but costs us around $18,000.00/year and that is much much less that we were quoted for the regular type of health insurance. I hope catastrophic counts, I am assuming it does. If not we will be joining you.

[MSchreader]

169. For your edification

Other sizes of this graphic are available, and t-shirts are on sale in the lobby.

[asdjrocky]

174. That's a keeper.

Thanks so much!

[MSchreader]

175. You're welcome

If you want a larger size, let me know.

[MSchreader]

171. K&R

:kick:

This needs to stay on the first page.

[Waiting For Everyman]

173. + 1

Said it elsewhere earlier, but just to add here too.

[BR_Parkway]

177. It's the "Default Public Option"