For those who still support the Senate HCR bill and disagree with Sanders, Keith O or Dean -

[NRaleighLiberal]

what specifically do they have wrong, in your view?
And what, specifically, do you see as the benefit of passing such flawed, watered down legislation when the likelihood of ever revisiting it/fixing it is so remote in this political climate?

What a curious week it has been here at DU....I am just looking for some facts to add to the many purely hyperbolic discussions (yes, I've been guilty of starting some too....stress/disappointment level running high!)

[Tony_FLADEM]

1. While I do not support an individual mandate

the Senate HCR bill gets the process started of reforming health care. If individuals are given a subsidy and health insurers are still not performing well in a few years it will be easier to act something more i.e. a robust public option or even single payer.

We have to start somewhere. Giving people a subsidy to buy insurance is a big step.

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. In theory, perhaps...but I just don't see it happening in this climate.

But thanks for the response! My post was getting kind of lonely with no responses!

[AllexxisF1]

4. Starting to reform health care?

I am so sick of hearing this bullshit excuse to pass a terrible bill. We have been working at health care reform for 70 fucking years, we have long past started it.

Medicare was supposed to be updated and reformed and added to...how is that going 40 years later.

The frame work already exists all we need to do is remove the age limit.

For fucks sake I am so tired of our own party believing these bullshit press points.

[Tony_FLADEM]

6. I agree that the individual mandate is a terrible idea

However, giving 30+ million a subsidy to buy insurance is a step in the right direction. In a few years when the insurance companies are still screwing around, it will be easier to enact something more stringent.

You can't get everything in 1 scoop. Let's give people an opportunity to have insurance and actually regulate the insurance companies and in a few years we can have Medicare for all.

[OhioBlue]

3. Well, it isn't so much that I support the current Senate Bill

But I don't like the knee-jerk, sophomoric name calling and such that is going on here. Our President has been called many names and been written off as a sell-out, a traitor, another Bush term, etc. I'm kind of sick of it. Especially if the people saying this haven't been engaged in actually "doing" something other than posting on a message board to forward a HCR bill.

We knew it was going to be incredibly hard to pass any type of meaningful HCR - we have seen it over and over through the decades. JFK had a hell of a time with Medicare and it didn't even happen until after his death when it passed under the Johnson administration. We KNEW this was going to be very, very difficult - we needed a populist uprising demanding single payer to force the bill to the left. We needed activists organizing, calling, writing, etc. to give a voice to the left, to demand an alternative to corporate for-profit insurance.. but what we got was the faux populist tea baggers getting all the lime light and I'm afraid to say, what I think are some Hillary supporters that never got over the primary, secretly reveling in the attacks on our President and pushing an attack from the left. They don't see themselves in that light tho.. they really do believe that what they say is true and full of integrity. they see everything from a skewed point of view - to doubt and mistrust first, dig in and be convinced that they were right.

There are some true progressives that criticize the President or HCR bills on principle and explain their points - I appreciate them and always have.. I can learn a lot from their rationale.. but they are not the ones posting the hateful things (Actually some of the very childish stuff - I really doubt is coming from former Hillary supporters but rather Republicans posing as Dems or newbies that see this as a sport).

So.. back to your point and questions.. I don't really support the current Senate bill - I don't like mandates without a public option at all. But.. I'm not ready to call for killing the bill in the Senate either. If we can pass it and go to conference and get the public option in there... I'll be happy. If in conference it contains mandates w/out a Public option or medicare buy-in, I don't think I could support it. I'm just looking at this point in the legislative process as another opportunity to call my Reps and make my voice heard. I want this process to keep moving forward. I want health care reform.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. Thanks - a fine, thoughtful, well reasoned response. Very much appreciated.