I would have been FAR happier if Obama had tried and failed at REAL health care reform

[Vinnie From Indy]

My respect and willingness to defer to his judgment on grave issues would have remained intact. If Obama would have put the same eloquence and heart into the campaign for meaningful reform that he did into his election campaign I would still be in the "walk through fire for him" brigade. I have lashed out in frustration and anger these last few days at what I can only call a betrayal by a man that I desperately wanted to succeed for the millions of Americans that are suffering. Maybe I projected way too much of what I wanted him to be. My anger has turned to sorrow and I think I need to take a break to get my head around it all.

Cheers!

[rhett o rick]

1. My exact thoughts. Thanks for posting. Damn him for compromising.

People will die. Better to fight and loose than lay down and let them walk all over you.

[amborin]

5. i'm getting cynical; don't think he compromised, think this is what he wanted

too many "compromises" to call them that...Wall Street, big Pharma, etc......

[rhett o rick]

30. Either way is bad. nt

[varelse]

2. If he had truly led an effort to achieve REAL health care reform

he would not have failed.

[On the Road]

26. Why on Earth Would You Say That?

As much as I would prefer single payer, it is a lost cause poliltically. It would have suffered the same fate as Clinton's bill.

I don't know if failing at single payer would have better than succeeding at a more modest bill with a strong public option. This bill certainly isn't the answer.

[rhett o rick]

31. The point is he didnt fight for us at all. This bill is shit. nt

[On the Road]

47. I Agree with That Completely

What I was questioning that he would have won if he had gotten behind a much stronger bill.

[Cosmocat]

49. Joe Lieberman is the point ... People need to grow up ...

seriously ...

BO would have done a magical, passionate speech 10 times a day, he would have campaigend every hour of every day for univeral coverage, and Joe Liberman is still going to the epitome of a douchebag ...

What does him "fighting" for "us" have to do with it?

He went to congress and charged them with health care reform. Something decent came out of the house where all they had to do was break the 50-50 split, and if it was even a 55-45 split in the Senate, they would be getting some really good there, too ...

The senate hurdle is 60-40 unfortunately, and there is not a single friggen thing BO can do about it ...

But, yeah, everyone turn on BO, because you are going to be REAL satisfied with Romney, Palin or whatever right wing lunatic you help to get elected in 2012 ...

[sabrina 1]

57. I'm sorry, that 's just more excuses for the man who was

given the power to lead. There will always be a Joe Lieberman, always has been. If you don't know that when you ask for the job, you should not be asking for it.

Lieberman did what he did because he knew Obama would not oppose him. Has he, btw? I saw him 'lashing out' at Dean, but not Lieberman. He and Lieberman are old friends. Obama's friends have been a problem from the day he chose Rahm Emmanuel. If I had known what unelected officials he intended to give positions of power to, I would not have supported him in the first place.

I agree with the commenter who said if he had supported real health care reform and put his heart and soul into it, he would have been able to effect some real change. Maybe not a full National Health Care system, but he could have gotten the American people fired up about it. They wanted that anyhow, even without being 'fired up' by someone who can be as effective as Obama can be, when his heart is in something.

Instead of starting out strong, because they KNEW the people would support getting the Private Ins. Ind. out of our health care system, they never even tried.

We have to face it. Obama is a corporate tool just like so many others sad as it is to have to admit. Our whole system is corrupted by money and Corporate power. If he is not, he can still do something to prove it, starting with getting rid of Rahm, Geithner, Summers, Bernanke, and the rest of the 'Friedman Economists' and people like Gates, who seems to have more power than anyone else in this country having been in power for so long, from way back when he betrayed Carter straight through all administrations up to now.

But I wouldn't hold my breath ~

[rhett o rick]

61. Lieberman is a red herring. I want Pres Obama to come out strong for a robust PO.

If the Senate doesnt give it to him, ok. But I want him to make it clear he is on our side.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My thoughts exactly.

I feel so sold out.

It's sickening.

K&R

[leftstreet]

4. It would have made the Bailout and War funding pills easier to swallow

no doubt

[amborin]

22. really?

not in my book

but in any case, they appear even more sinister given the HCR fiasco

[leftstreet]

25. Not in mine either

I just figured they'd make major loyalty-bank on delivering healthcare

Guess they decided it didn't matter

[HuckleB]

6. I basically agree.

And yet I'm with Paul Krugman tonight.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

:toast:

[glitch]

13. Not to mention the crucially important climate capitulation.4% of 1990, really? nt

[HuckleB]

17. Well, that discussion will have to wait for another night.

I can't switch gears that fast after three glasses of wine.

[glitch]

21. Three? I wish!

I get sick on two. Damn my pancreas! But agreed, enough disillusion for one night.

[amborin]

23. +500 --that's almost the worst, imo. just shockingly bad leadership and example for the world

[glitch]

48. More of the SHAME. nt

[daleanime]

7. Got that right...

don't know if it's possible for me to be more upset about this.

[slipslidingaway]

8. Agreed. n/t

[MindandSoul]

9. I agree! I thought he care most of all about the people, healthcare for the people. . .

and that he would prefer to keep his word to the people, realize at least part of his vision for the people, even if it cost him the second term.
Today. . .I am not sure anymore!

He obviously will not fight to realize his vision for the people, not for health care, not for peace, not for a more fair society.
And by "doing nothing" but sleeping in the White House, he is obviously given up his chance to be reelected also!

So. . .why is he doing it? The only thing I can think of (and I hate that suspicion!) is that he sold his soul just to be elected. . .that he is a straw man. . .looking good, speaking well. . .and empty!

I am still hanging on to a whisper of hope. . .but it is fading fast!

[NorthCarolina]

29. Actually, I think he IS fighting for his vision. It seems wrong to you because, unlike Obama,

you are not viewing it through a Corporate Friendly Lens.

[bobbolink]

35. There were a few of us poor folk who sounded the alarm.

But, as usual, we were ignored.

See how that works?

[jillan]

10. I think you speak for many of us here.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. If it was up to Obama we would have real healthcare reform however

he is surrounded by snakes

[jgraz]

16. It was up to Obama. He doesn't want real reform.

I think you need to revise your estimate of who the snakes are.

[HuckleB]

19. I am for passing this stupid bill.

Here's why: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

But this isn't Raising Arizona, and Obama isn't Reagan (thank God), and he should have done more!!!

[laughingliberal]

41. Sorry. Love Paul Krugman but he's calling it wrong on this one. I'm going with Dean's judgement here

Two people I trust. Paul's very smart and his economic cred is without question. Dean is a physician who has worked within the system we have now and has deep knowledge of health care both from the standpoint of the economics of it and the needs of the population.

[amborin]

24. disagree; he's doing just what he wants; just another example of whose interests are being aided

[bigwillq]

12. Me too.

Single-payer or bust. Put the bill up for a vote and take your chances.

[jgraz]

14. Yep. I thought we were voting for a fighter.

Can you imagine the support he'd have right now if he'd gone for Single Payer? Even if he failed, he'd have 5 more progressive Senators in 2011 to try again.

[glitch]

18. +5

But that might not be the mission he wants to accomplish, anyway.

[Mithreal]

37. damn straight

I want to walk through fire for this guy, but I won't be bought by his words again.

[Cosmocat]

50. On WHAT planet does that happen ...

People need to SERIOUSLY grow up about this ...

Joe Lieberman is a friggen douchebag ... That is it in a nutshell ... BO could have campaigned 24 hours a day for the last 5 months and had 100 BO special speeches and it does not change where things are right now - the Rs totally in line and Joe Lieberman being a douchebag ...

5 more progressive senators in 2011?

Jesus ...

[jgraz]

65. On the planet where the Democrats are actually a functioning political party.

So... not this one.

[JVS]

15. It's better to go down swinging than to go down looking

[NorthCarolina]

20. I would have been FAR happier had Kucinich been elected instead of Obama

but of course I didn't get what I wanted either.

[gimama]

27. Bless Your HEART!

I been thinkin' the SAME thing!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

33. Because Congress would go along with him?

If they won't go along with a moderate like Obama, what makes you think they'd go with a lefty like Kucinich?

[NorthCarolina]

46. Because for one, I have little doubt that Kucinich would USE the Presidential bully pulpit

to address the people directly; there would be no doubt on where he stands on any issue. Further, you assume that the Democratic Congress is bucking Obama on health care. I disagree, and believe that Obama is getting everything he wants from health care reform. It's just that what many "assumed" Obama was pushing for, is not the reality of what he wanted to achieve. We "assumed" his effort would reflect a populist endeavor, while all along he envisioned a "Corporate Benefit" and was making behind the scenes deals with Pharma and Insurance fat cats early on. Contrary to what the media tells us, I do not believe this country to be a center-right nation; rather I believe it to be largely left-of-center, and Kucinich, being the truth-teller that he is, would earn the trust of the people in very short order. The ConservaDems would be highlighted for their obstructionist ways at every turn, and the media attacks on evil liberalism would be exposed for the fabricated Corporate propaganda and talk-show fodder that it is.

[truedelphi]

28. Olbermann and now you are stating what I am thinking

We had a brief "war on the health care industry" without ever having a single battle.

Capitulation it was.

And the fuckwads in the WH have done so much to make me realize that they are more despicable than the RW'ers - at least the RW crowd believes the nonsense they spew.

At some points, Obama looks like he is disinterested in having to tell the lies ("When will they just let me go back to making those great oratories like yesterday," he must be thinking.)

At other points he looks like he is sick of having to lie through his teeth.

Contrast that with Palin who is perfectly content with the nonsense she peddles.

[Withywindle]

32. I'm with you.

When you haggle, you don't START with the price you hope your haggling partner might actually eventually accept! You demand the moon, the other guy demands the molten core of the earth, you argue each other up/down to the middle.

Obama has a lot of influence and ability to place pressure that he never fully used. I know he can be a very canny and ruthless player when he wants to be. Why didn't he want to be in this case?

[WT Fuheck]

34. we should have known in January when he unilaterally & single-handedly killed all discussion

of single payer.

[amborin]

36. interesting article: "The Self-Destruction of Obama" :

<http://www.crisispapers.org/essays9w/destruction.htm>

[laughingliberal]

38. 100% with you on that. Everyone understands how difficult the climate for this can be

If he had worked 1/2 as hard for a bill which resembled the plan he campaigned on as he did making sure Big Insurance and Big Pharma got to screw us all, I'd still be right there with him. I am not going to cheer him on for screwing us.

[Raine]

39. Agree

he didn't even attempt in the least to fight for the people. :-(

[hughee99]

40. Come on now, he's a chess master. Here's the plan...

Step 1, require everyone to have health insurance. Make these private insurance companies deal with signing up all the new applicants.
Step 2, declare a national emergency for some reason (SARS, Avian bird flu, Swine Flu, etc...)
Step 3, nationalize the health care industry, since you have to make sure EVERYONE gets treatment so that the epidemic doesn't continue to spread.

Or maybe not.

[Egnever]

42. He is not a dictator

WTF with you people?

[varelse]

43. He's not a leader either

at least, not in the Health Care Reform effort.

[Raster]

44. You mean instead of trying to fail?

[FormerDittoHead]

45. I would also be far happier if he were to VETO this bill. THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

If he wants my support (and I don't mean just my vote) in 2012, he would DO AS HE SAID and not sign any bill that didn't have (real, not loopholed) cost controls including a public option.

"Better than nothing" simply isn't good enough.

[bullwinkle428]

51. KO made a GREAT point last night - the wingnuts could not have hated him

any more, no matter what approach he took, so he should have gone "all out" from the very beginning.

[Baclava]

56. It's not a popularity contest - it's governing

"For the People"

[calico1]

52. My feelings exactly.

Virtually from day one he has been compromising with the worst elements..

How can I expect a fight from him? He is not a fighter.

It seems more important to him that everybody like him. And that is going to backfire bigtime.

Olbermann is right. No matter what you do there will always be people who won't like you so you might as well stand up for something.

[stillwaiting]

53. Here's the thing

At this point I can NOT lobby effectively for Obama, Glenn Nye, Warner, OR Webb.

I was able to get MANY people in Virginia to vote for all four of these candidates. I even got my Southern Baptist Republican parents from Alabama to vote for Obama (first time my dad EVER voted for a Democrat). I am a political activist, and I will not be able to be an effective advocate for these politicians at this point. I know that I am far from the only one in this category.

Our country is in very deep trouble. After ALWAYS voting Democrat, I am seriously considering not doing so. I can not believe that I am here. I never felt this disillusioned when Bush and the Repubs had control because I always had hope. That hope has faded, and my eyes are open now.

[Blue Owl]

54. No doubt

The way to overcome the evil that is BU$HCO is not to compromise with it.

[Vidar]

55. Absolutely. Carter failed, in part because of Kennedy's opposition, but he he always

tried to do the right thing. Carter is probably the most honorable president we ever had. On the other hand, there appears to be nothing honorable about Obama at this point.

[FiveGoodMen]

62. "Carter is probably the most honorable president we ever had"

I think so, too.

[Gold Metal Flake]

58. Yup.

[TiberiusGracchus]

59. At this point we need ONE progressive senator to vote against cloture and...

force the rethugs to filibuster.

If they don't filibuster then we can salvage the bill somehow but if they DO filibuster it then we are saved from this mockery of healthcare reform and 30 million of our most vulnerable countrymen are saved from becoming insurance serfs.

[FiveGoodMen]

60. Oh boy, you got that right!

And if he and the Dems in Congress had been willing to fight the good fight and get on the news as often as possible explaining what the industry was trying to do to us, I don't think they'd have lost.

(I still don't think they were trying for a good bill or even a good compromise -- I think they got what they wanted)

[Mithreal]

63. Like Love

[GreenTea]

64. Absolutely!! n/t

[ecstatic]

66. So ramming through something that would OBVIOUSLY fail is OK

just as long as your f*cking ego is stroked. Nice... :eyes: Some of us don't have that luxury.