Howard Dean, Movement Hero..David Sirota

[Mari333]

I want to take a moment just to recognize what has been recognized before, but needs to be recognized right here and now one more time: Howard Dean is a genuine hero.

In coming out against the Lieberman-gutted health insurance "reform" bill, Dean is leveraging every shred of power he can muster to create the political space for the final bill - whether passed now, or later after going back to the drawing board - to be better and more progressive. He has made a compelling case that the bill "would do more harm than good," as he says in his Washington Post op-ed today - and in doing that he has made the power struggle between Joe Lieberman's Palpatinian forces of insurance/drug industry darkness and the progressive movement far more symmetrical.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/howard-dean-movement-lead_b_395480.html

[NJmaverick]

1. A guy who appears to be getting payback for being snubbed for a cabinet post

is not someone I would describe as a hero. His running of the DNC on the other hand, was quite skillful.

[MercutioATC]

2. Calling a spade a spade is "payback"?

Wow.

Just wow.

[NJmaverick]

6. Ignoring all the people that will die with out the bill, is not what I would call heroic

but payback would be a more fitting term.

[MercutioATC]

18. Nobody is ignoring them, least of all Dean.

The fact remains that we can't pass legislation that harms 300 million people to gain some short-term benefit for 30 million.

[laughingliberal]

38. Ah, but, many will still die. Difference? More will have health insurance when they die

and some, who were once middle class, will be made poor before they die.

The premiums will still be out of reach for those people making over 400% of PFL. They won't have health care. They will have a fine. Annual caps are allowed. A serious illness will take you down. And that's after you've paid them 25% of your income and $5000-10,000 in out of pocket expenses. Medical bankruptcies are still with us.

As an added bonus, many who are managing to survive will now be made poor. Were you planning to, finally, get a little ahead and put some money into your 401k? Well, good luck with that. Another solution to Social Security, It will save tons if people can't ever, actually, retire. This is, in reality, more effective than raising the retirement age by legislation. Really, that's ok. They'd have just stolen it in the next risky Wall Street binge.

If you qualify for a subsidy and were planning to keep moving up that socio-economic ladder, don't bother. From the day you cross over that 400% of FPL mark it is unlikely you will ever get back to the place you were just before you crossed over it. As soon as you lose that subsidy and have to pay the full price of your premium, you will have less money than you did before that raise. And they will keep going up cause, after all, they're gonna go up every year on everyone, anyway. And, specifically, they're gonna go up on you for having the gall to get older every year.

Not worried? You have yours through your employer. Their premiums will continue to rise, also. More of them will be forced to drop coverage for their employees. Some will keep it. You'll just be up against the same thing you have been-stagnant/declining wages due to rising health care costs.

Did this bill save money. Sure, it's lowered the cost to the government. If you're working or middle class, your bill you couldn't afford, anyway, just became a matter of law and it's going up.

[NashVegas]

43. BWA-HA-HA

So now we're defending corporate giveaways as method to keep people alive?

[stevietheman]

44. I say "Let the health care system fall apart".

No strong public option? Then let's just watch as a lot of people lose their employer-provided health insurance. Then, maybe, the American people will wise up.

[jgraz]

56. The only thing that will die without the bill is Obama's re-election.

And, you know what? I'm ok with that.

[Citizen Kang]

59. well

Forcing 30 million people to purchase crappy insurance or be fined by their government is not going to save any lives, but you are free to believe that.

Dean is looking out for America, not looking for political payback. This has become a bad bill and we need to start over.

[eridani]

61. What horseshit. The bill will make them poor and THEN kill them n/t

[madfloridian]

3. Your disdain of Dean is showing all over DU lately.

That is your right, but it really is obvious how you feel.

[cali]

5. It's not his disdain of Dean so much as his blind loyalty to Obama

[NJmaverick]

11. LOL! I have seen threads praising Dean telling DU how he speaks for them

(and in some cases I wonder if he does their thinking for them as well) but go ahead if you want to call a mature and thoughtful position that values reason over emotion blind loyalty, go right ahead. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[cali]

20. I find little thougtful or mature in your posts. You countenance no criticism of Obama

whatsoever. You'll defend him no matter what.

[NJmaverick]

33. It takes effort to find and a willingness to keep one's emotions in check

[NJmaverick]

We difer in one major way. I have a disdain for Dean's current actions not the man

I don't take things personally (like you appear to do) as I feel that leads to clouded judgment.

[madfloridian]

28. You say I have "clouded judgment"? and yes I take it personally

when the only attack the WH has ever made has been on Howard Dean who helped lead the party to its big wins.

That is their only break with not standing for anything special...they have united against Dean.

[NJmaverick]

37. I have felt that there is some sort of personal issue between Dean and either Obama

or someone high up in his administration. Dean's 50 state strategy turned out to be the perfect choice after the GOP crashed and burned the state of our nation. Although one funny thing I noticed is that the 50 state stategy would require bringing in the Democratic Blue Dogs (as they are the only ones that can be successful in many states) that many Dean supporters hate with a passion.

[cali]

4. you look desperate. Dean isn't getting back. That's just not who he is.

And I think I know just a wee bit more about Dean than YOU do.

Pathetic.

[Puglover]

54. Desperate Cali?

It's honestly pitiful.

[G_j]

7. Healthcare has been Dean's passion forever,

this not payback, he very much cares.

[NJmaverick]

13. If that was the case, he wouldn't be talking about Obama's reelection in the middle of this critical

issue and distracting from his passion. Either that or he is again displaying poor judgment.

[MercutioATC]

21. He was asked a question.

Granted, the best choice would have been refusing to answer, but he didn't bring the issue up nor is he politicizing the health care issue.

[NJmaverick]

29. He had the option to pass and he didn't take it

so you are saying he just excercised poor judgement, which is fine as it's a reasonable position.

[MercutioATC]

36. On this, we agree.

The better course of action would have been to refuse to answer.

[laughingliberal]

55. Oh noes! Get the rope. Nit picking incidentals are not going to destroy the credibility of a man

who has been on the correct side of this debate from the jump.

[cali]

23. I have decent affordable healthcare coverage through the state due to Dean

yes, it is his passion.

[NJmaverick]

30. I am not sure how the first part proves the second part

[cali]

35. In his 11 years as guv, he fought for healthcare reform here in VT

and what he achieved is the result of his passion.

[Mari333]

8. Lieberman likes your post.

[NJmaverick]

14. I know the GOP HATES my posts and that's what really matters

[MercutioATC]

24. So do the majority of Dems.

Congrats! You're "making a difference".

[NJmaverick]

27. Wrong, the majority of DEMOCRATS love my posts. Non-Democrats who are helping the GOP

no so much. So maybe you should consider joining us Democrats.

[MercutioATC]

34. See, I thought that DU (while admittedly diverse) was mostly comprised of Democrats.

To be fair, one's definition of "Democrat" would determine their "love" for your musings.

Perhaps we just have different definitions.

[NJmaverick]

39. I haven't seen many posts supporting Democrats here on DU. In fact most of the posts and almost all

the highly recced posts appear to be the kind the GOP and right wingers would be very happy to see (as they are sure to undermine the Dems and help them regain power).

[jgraz]

58. I guess you need some rationalization as to why all your posts get unrec'd to oblivion

I can't *possibly* be that most of what you post is pure hysterical drivel, can it?

[jgraz]

57. Speaking of someone looking for PAYBACK

That weasel LIEberdouche is all about payback. Sick little fuck.

[dkf]

9. Howard Dean isn't petty.

He took more crap than I could take and he did it to make things better. He is speaking out now because this bill is a bad piece of legislation pure and simple.

[NJmaverick]

15. Do you even know what's in the bill? Can you tell me the major parts of it?

[dkf]

45. The only decent stuff is expansion of Medicaid. All the other ways they are trying to make

Insurance companies do to be fair will result in raising of rates that we will be required to pay. I still say insurance reform is missing the target. We need to discuss how expensive medical care is period and I don't see anything that will help vely much there. Lastly I don't trust health insurance. Yeah I'll keep it in case it helps but if I Got sick I gave no illusions that I'll emerge fiscally intact. The copays alone would killl me.

[eridani]

62. And it's ;bullshit anyway. You don't need ANY bill to expand Medicaid

Just revisit the original bill.

[laughingliberal]

48. Yeah, I can.

But I'm just going to summarize here:

First, those who, actually will get some help they don't have now:

People who are, otherwise, well off and could afford to buy their own insurance now but have been denied due to a preexisting condition will now be able to purchase a policy. Anyone who gets a policy will pay a hefty premium for it and the out of pocket costs (depending on what level of premium you're able to afford) will pay $5000-10,000 in out of pocket expenses. There will be annual caps on coverage. You can sick but not too sick.

Those who fall below the levels to qualify for Medicaid but are still very poor will get coverage they don't have, now. And, in case anyone thinks I have any self serving interest in seeing this bill defeated, I am one of those.

Some who qualify for subsidies will find the premium affordable. They'll have an overpriced policy (cause they are all going to be overpriced) but they will have some help covering. Out of pocket expenses will prevent many from accessing the system until they are seriously ill. If they get seriously ill, that annual cap will make sure they don't get too much care. If their income is low enough, they are still at risk for being medically bankrupted.

Most of those over 400% of the poverty level will find the premiums prohibitive. Some may manage to scrape it up but these people will definitely find the cost of accessing their care prohibitive. They're gonna be teetering on the edge, financially, and the out of pocket costs will send them over the cliff.

Oh, you thought they were getting rid of recissions? They can't drop you if you get sick. Not true. They are still allowed to drop people for 'fraud.' You do know that is the same reason they give now, don't you? Saw a dermatologist and didn't mention in on your application? Fraud. You're outta there.

[xiamiam]

12. wow..your posts never cease to amaze me..nt

[NJmaverick]

16. It's only fair, as I find so many post here fascinating and often astounding

at the magnitude of the self destructiveness displayed.

[mike_c]

19. wow-- that was a new low....

I didn't think you had it in you.

[NJmaverick]

40. Sorry if the truth upsets you

although not so sorry as I am willing to ignore it.

[chimpymustgo]

22. That is BULLSHIT. Howard Dean is an honest, courageous man - MUCH too much so, for the crowd that

"snubbed" him. He's too busy trying to do something for people like you - rather than the insurance industry. The PETTY BULLSHIT is coming out of the White House - and from its sycophants - NOT from Howard Dean.

[NJmaverick]

41. So anyone that supports the wonderful and flawless heroic Howard Dean is to be honored and respected

anyone that supports President Obama is a "sycophant". :crazy:

[laughingliberal]

51. You have to ask? The Obama administration has taken a room full of pony shit

that the corporatists in the Senate scooped up out of Milton Friedman's stalls and told us it is health care reform. I'm sorry. The emperor has no clothes. And when they get through raping us with this bill, we're all gonna be in rags.

[mzmolly]

25. Dean has been supportive of this WH and this bill every step of the way,

until Lieberman essentially "killed" the public option and the medicare buy in.

[Kansas Wyatt]

32. Longer than he should have...

So that gives him the benefit of doubt that he went the distance to support it.

[NJmaverick]

42. His support could be describe as mild, at best

[mzmolly]

49. Are you kidding? He appeared on national television pushing the agenda for

months!

[laughingliberal]

52. He, at every step, has said the bill was worth passing. Every step of the way.

He has pointed out better ways at each step but, never, until they stripped the last shred of reform out the other day at the behest of the White House jester did he fail to say the bill had enough in it to make passage worthwhile.

[Peregrine Took]

47. What an insult. Howard Dean is a man of tremendous integrity. n/t

[NJmaverick]

50. As is President Obama but that hasn't stopped almost every DUer that praises Dean

from doing just that.

[freddie mertz]

64. Sadly. Obama's reputation for integrity has taken some hits of late.

Public lying, behind the scenes back-stabbing, serial campaign and post-campaign promise violations (ll in favor of more right wing and pro-corporate polices, at the expense of the public good), turning the WH into a Chicago-style hit-squad war room against liberal Democrats.

The Obama you believe in is the one I have seen disappear before my eyes.

[freddie mertz]

63. That you Rahm? nt.

[PassingFair]

10. He has been watching closely. Went it jumped the shark, he let us know.

He tells the truth, and they call it hell.

[laughingliberal]

53. Yeah, we're being mugged but, at least with eyes wide open, now nt

[mike_c]

17. thank you, Dr. Dean!

:patriot:

[Individualist]

26. +1 - and thank you, David Sirota.

[whatchamacallit]

31. Palpatinian!

:rofl: love it...

[chill_wind]

46. Good stuff:

"I have to say, Dean's multi-year transformation is amazing. I remember when I worked for Bernie Sanders how Vermont had a DLC-ish governor named Howard Dean. To look at him now is to stand in awe, because today's Howard Dean is not that Howard Dean. And I believe his transformation is entirely genuine because he had absolutely nothing to gain from it in the way we cynically define "gain" in today's politics. There are many things to "gain" from shutting up and going corporate - there is little to "gain" from championing a progressive cause from a place of authentic conviction. Little to personally "gain" - but much to gain for the country.

Here is a person who has decided not to pull the usual post-retirement dance of worshiping the Establishment and joining The Club. Here is a person whose motives cannot be attacked and who has built an independent base of power the old fashioned way - not through Big Money or through insider connections, but through grassroots organizing, unvarnished policy credibility, and a willingness to stand for principles before party. Here is a person going on television to tell sitting Democratic U.S. senators the cold hard truth to their face: namely that they've sold out. Here is a guy taking on the same obsequious Professional Democratic Elites in DC that are saying we must pass any bill, no matter how destructive, just to give Democrats a political win (the same Professional Democratic Elite that told us to support the Iraq War and the bailout, by the way).

Here is, in short, a rare movement leader in the age of cynicism showing what a movement can do - or at minimum, have a realistic shot to do - when it musters a little bit of courage."

Man, I so agree with Sirota. And have so appreciated the man, Howard Dean, for always.
He is that. A movement leader. They don't come along all that often. Thank you, Howard Dean.

I'll just reiterate one time what I said in another thread, speaking only for me:

Dean spoke up loudly for us YEARS AGO when Dems all around him were still subdued and just *whispering* their grievances, in fear of being branded "traitors" and "abettors of the enemy."

He made it safe for me to open my windows again in my quiet little RW town on a hot summer night and to talk freely about the bullshit Bush cabal, their bullshit anthrax constant orange alert flag-waving reign of terrah..loud enough for the good neighbors to hear.

Our national debt to Howard Dean cannot begin to be repaid on too many levels to even count.

**************

Some mens' souls cannot be bought at any price.

[democracy1st]

60. K & R