Who is to blame? Obama or the GOP...

[LeftHander]

I pick the GOP. Anyone else in DEMOCRATIC underground not happy with the OPPOSITION party?

Anyone on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND care to stand up against the crazy obstructionist, lying dog Republicans anymore??

Or are we just "Obamablamers"...?

The fact is THERE ARE STILL TOO MANY REPUBLICANS IN WASHINGTON!!!

If there were five, hell three, two, SHIT!! EVEN ONE less hardcore republican in the senate the Democratic Moderates would not be balking.

Moderates are pathetic fence sitters attacking them is pointless. Go after the people that have the CRAZY ATTITUDES!!

Spend efforts slamming them. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT FORCED THIS DEBACLE.

Jesus people!!! Are you all fucking nuts? Can't you see it!!!???

FAAAAAHHHHHCK!!!!

[Cant trust em]

1. Obama deserves some blame.

But it's not all his fault.

Our system is set up so that we can't have any defections in the party whatsoever. If 60 votes is going to be the threshhold from now on, don't expect anyone to get anything they want. There are going to be fewer and fewer cases where bi-partisanship is an actual possibility.

[tabatha]

3. The GOP.

Obama is trying to do a Mandela - but where it may have worked to some extent in another place, it does not work in the US.

[Cant trust em]

4. I was thinking about this last night.

Obama would be a great president for a different country. Or the US 20 years from now.

Today is going to be a long haul.

[polichick]

2. Well, since it's been clear for ages that the GOP was sitting it out...

Dems should've written a very strong people-oriented, anti-corporate bill. Instead, the WH engaged the most conservative people in Congress to write this bill and loaded it up with pro-industry crap.

Obama deserves to take a big hit on this - hopefully it will wake him the hell up! He's got three more years to do great stuff.

[Cant trust em]

6. Even with a strong people-oriented bill, Lieberman would still

be sitting it out as well. Our 60 seat "majority" isn't worth a whole lot.

[polichick]

9. Nobody has even begun to muscle Lieberman...

The WH warned freshman Congresspeople not to go against him re the war escalation; no such thing has been done with Joe-the-asshole.

It's INSANE that he still has his chairmanships!

[Cant trust em]

13. I agree, but that's different than writing a people oriented bill.

[polichick]

15. imo there shouldn't have been a bill unless it was all about the people...

...getting good and affordable healthcare. Insurance company regulation is really a separate issue.

[Cant trust em]

17. So should there be two separate bills?

One that is the low-hanging fruit of insurance company regulation, then another bill that establishes public option or Medicare expansion?

[polichick]

20. I could see that. What I can't accept is a gigantic hand-out to the very companies...

...that are already screwing the people over or a mandate insisting people buy an insurance product from them.

imo it's as criminal as continuously feeding the banks and the mic with our tax dollars.

[Cant trust em]

22. I think that would make this a lot easier. We'd have a bill by now.

Sometimes I think that our progressive desire to make all changes at one time can make things unnecessarily complicated and difficult.

[polichick]

25. That could be part of it - but I've also come to believe that the WH is...

..carrying water for the industry, and the House and Senate bills have their fingerprints all over them.

[Cant trust em]

28. I think we're pretty much all on the same page to a certain degree...

I hope that no one is under the delusion that the President has no corporate ties. Of course he does. Of course everyone does.

There's always going to be some corporate giveaway in every bill that goes in front of congress. I think that we just need to tip the scales a little more. If we were able to get the public option, then I would have been cool with even a limited version.

[LeftHander]

7. how do you figure nearly half of lawmakers just sat it out???

the bill looked much different in the early going in committees complete with public healthcare...

The fucking republicans have been fighting it and Obama tooth, fang and claw from day one.

Now that it out on the floor votes start getting tallied and are the Repukes for any of it unless they dictate what IT is?

NO THEY AREN'T....IT IS THEIR WAY OR THE HAIRWAY....

[polichick]

12. Zero Republicans will vote for this bill - therefore it's been foolish for the WH to consider them.

[LeftHander]

16. unfortunetly senate rules give the minority lots of ways to throw wrenches...

It was designed to prevent a minority from being completely ignored in lawmaking.

[Armstead]

5. Um, the Repubicans are just doing their job -- We should be doing ours

Democrats are in control of the White House and both houses of Congress.

They had a pretty convincing win last year, and gained a lot of political capital. The public is also fed up with the behavior of private insurance companies who are screwing us all.

And yet,Obama and the Congressional Democrats blow this opportunity by coming up with a version of healthcare reform that entrenches the insurance industry even further and is almost as conservative as the Republicans would do.

Worse yet, something as clearly as beneficial as allowing importation of drugs to provide affordable medicine is shot down, not by the GOP but by Demoicrats.

That's why some of us don't see the Republicans as the primarty problem in this.

[seabeyond]

10. i dont agree. i dont think they are doing their job. not vote anything dem, cause they are GOP

is not representing the nation. it isnt about them against us for the simple fact of being on other side of the isle.

[Armstead]

30. They are dloing their job -- I didnl;t say their job is the correct thing to do

They are advancing conservatism by blocking liberal action by the Democrats.

It's a shitty job description, but it works for what conservatives want.

The problem is that we are not as effective in countering them and actually getting things done now that we have the majority.

[LeftHander]

14. Sounds like you need to clean your glasses....

Excuse me....but we never had all the votes to cram a 100% partisan bill through.

the senate GOP would of completely stalled it. There was enough CONSERVATIVE support AGAINST ANY DEMOCRATIC bill that the DEMOCRATIC MODERATES would be a major factor. If the moderates knew fighting would be piontless they would not of sided with the conservatives on this issue.

EVERYONE KNOWS THIS....

[Armstead]

29. You think the Republicans would be making similar excuses for inaction?

First of all, the Republicans would stand firm against anything the Democrats would try to do. No matter what.

If the GOP were in c gharge iunder the exact same circumstances, they would be bending all then rules to pass whatever they hell they wanted...And unfortunately probably with the help of some Democratic defectors.

If Obama and the Democratic leadership were willing, they could have written a real bill, and pressed the recalcitrant ConservaDems to go with the majority or face serious consequences.

What's more frustrating is that we always find excuses for inaction or weakness, while the GOP form a united frint to get thinbgs done -- or as is the case now -- to effectively block us from acting.

[LeftHander]

36. I still feel the soft squishy center goes with the prevailing breeze...

Coming off a long period ultra conservative influenced washington...I think some of the moderates fear their futures as much as the conservatives do thus they stay to the right. Until it is safe and clear to move the other way they will side with the republicans. The GOP knows they can count on swaying the center with religion, lies and more FUD.

[JHB]

32. And what was the strategy to break up that Republican lockstep?

Nine months before the election Glenn Greenwald published an article "What "bipartisanship" in Washington means" (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/30/bipartisanship/) that highlighted the way "bipartisan" Republican bills were being passed: Republicans voted as a block, with only occasionally a few straying from party line vs. Democrats who showed much greater variation. It circulated around Lefty blogs for a while and still gets the occasional citation, but it's main point has effectively disappeared.

This could have been picked up by the Democratic leadership and honed into a weapon: "Lockstep Watch", with running tallys of how rigidly Republicans were conforming to the Party Line (top it off with a graphic of a line of Soviet soldiers goose-stepping). Make conformity cost them.

And how about a little "Joe Insurance"? I understand the reasoning that despite everything they needed to play kissy-kissy with Lieberman, but where's the part where you make him pay if he crosses you?

[Vincardog]

21. Bingo. The GOP brand is down to 20%. At the time the Democratic party should be beating Conservative...

ideas and Republicans like rented mules Obama is leading us to compromise with them.
You do not compromise with failed corrupt ideologies you bury them.

If the GOP still has enough clout to stop your progressive populist reforms let the public see who stands for them and who is stopping the reforms we need.

The only question is "Is LIEberman opposed to Obama's policies or is he Obama's pet conservative?"

[seabeyond]

8. i will give it to the GOP and couple of dem senators. nt

[Cant trust em]

19. That's the answer.

Lieberman, Nelson and Landrieu might as well be republicans as far as I'm concerned.

I think that some people still see this as a blue/red issue.

[Xenotime]

11. I still blame *. Rethugs still want to see him come back.

[BurtWorm]

18. I blame Obama and the Dem leaders in the Senate in particular

Repubs were weak after the election. They're stronger now. Why? Because the Dems have been acting like the weaklings everyone expects them to be.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. I think so too. They should have treated the GOP like a rabid dog and kept it caged, but

instead let it wander wherever it wanted.

[tomm2thumbs]

23. negotiating with the Insurance and Pharma Industries (aka GOP) behind closed doors

they both deserve blame - but it takes two to tango and the fact that they defeated the re-importation of drugs act shows that when the White House WANTS to get something done, they are out in full force... but heaven forbid an obnoxious little senator from Connecticut comes along and tries to start a fight - the WH runs away and hides

[Vidar]

26. Obama. The Republicans have been remarkably consistent. Obama has wavered every which way.

[jillan]

27. Both. Obama for not being a leader on this issue and for allowing this bill to be hijacked.

Gop for being worthless whiners.

[kctim]

31. I don't think you can see it

If there are too many Republicans in Washington, it is because their voters put them there and IF they are going to be replaced, it is more than likely they will be replaced by MODERATE Democrats, not progressives.

Thinking moderate Democrats would just sit back and agree with everything and not represent their constituents if there were less Republicans, is downright silly.

By all means, spend money to replace Republicans, but I don't believe you will get the results you think you will.

[mdmc]

33. The GOP is doing their job - kudos to them

they have shown us what can be done when in the minority..

[walldude]

34. It would be nice if Obama and the Democrats would stand

up to the "crazy obstructionist, lying dog republicans", isn't that why we stood up for them in the first place? If you ask me the only people who are nuts are the ones who are turning a blind eye to what the Democratic party has become.. Or maybe you missed it when they unleashed the dogs on Dean while thanking Lieberman...

[H2O Man]

35. Democrats in Congress.

[moondust]

37. GOP/Conservadems and Harry Reid/Senate rules.

The Party of Nothing and their Democratic enablers are obviously to blame for the dysfunctional Senate.

But Harry Reid should have met with the Conservadems many months ago before the HCR campaign even started to find out what their demands were and thus figure out what could possibly get through the Senate.

I don't know what the President can do in the Senate that the majority leader cannot.

[LeftHander]

38. Played like a fiddle....a cheap one....

The GOP has done it again...that rash in your back...is rosin.

[UrbScotty]

39. Yes, LeftHander! Thank you!!!

[yurbud]

40. Dems have the super-majority in Congress they said they needed

the GOP is irrelevant. Corporate-owned Democrats are using them as an excuse to screw us, claiming a corpse is twisting their arms.

[deaniac21]

41. The BFEE is working behind the scenes to do all of this evil.

[butterfly77]

42. Bluedogs/GOP are one and the same..