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Military Abortion Ban: Female Soldiers Not Protected by Constitution They Defend

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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:09 PM
Original message
Military Abortion Ban: Female Soldiers Not Protected by Constitution They Defend
Unable to get an abortion during a tour of duty in Iraq, a soldier is left with no option but to do it herself—a humiliating but not uncommon dilemma. Women in the military are forced to obtain a leave to get the care they need; but if they’re honest about why, they put their military career in jeopardy. If they’re not, they put their military career in jeopardy.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/religiousright/2111/military_abortion_ban:_female_soldiers_not_protected_by_constitution_they_defend?page=entire

Starting in 1979, Defense Department appropriations bills have been used to restrict or prohibit the use of federal funds—meaning all military health coverage—for abortion services at overseas military hospitals. Although President Clinton reversed the ban shortly after taking office, anti-abortion forces in Congress made the ban permanent in 1995, preventing future presidents from altering the rules by executive order.

What began as a funding ban, compelling women to pay for abortion services themselves, was later extended into a more comprehensive embargo on performing abortions in any military hospital except in cases of rape, incest, or threat to the life of the mother. Rep. Susan Davis (D-CA), argued that “servicewomen do not receive the protection of the Constitution they defend,” and tried unsuccessfully in 2005 and 2006 to repeal the ban—or at least to bring it in line with current Medicaid standards by allowing abortion funding in rape and incest cases. Opponents like Kansas Republican Jim Ryan postured in response claiming that, “allowing self-funded abortions would simply turn our military hospitals overseas into abortion clinics.”

In fact, before Roe v. Wade the situation was reversed: servicewomen were pressured into having abortions due to a military policy of automatically discharging pregnant women. That policy ended with Crawford v. Cushman, a 1976 US Appeals Court case ruling that the discharge rule violated due process.

The result of the ban is that active-duty servicewomen and military dependents are faced with a number of equally unappealing options: venture out to local hospitals while overseas, to medical facilities that may have different standards of care, where medical workers may not speak English, or where there is animosity towards the United States; seek a back-alley abortion in a country that prohibits abortion; or undertake an arduous process of obtaining permission from commanding officers to fly home or to a neighboring country, find space on a military transport, or pay for a commercial flight home (a prohibitive cost for lower-ranking servicewomen), and return to their units aware that their superiors know intimate details about their medical records.

Kolbi-Molinas says the ACLU has received reports about commanding officers attempting to interfere with women taking leave to obtain abortions. Even for those who are able to obtain an abortion off-base http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2009/06/18/military-fails-create-safe-working-environment-women , says Bethany Niebauer, a military spouse and writer at RH Reality Check, the lack of medical privacy in the military means women often return to social shaming “for making a choice with which her superiors might disagree.”

A General Accounting Office report on the issue in 2002 found that the policy was a humiliation for servicewomen, who must seek travel approval from commanding officers, many of whom “have not been adequately trained about the importance of women’s basic health care.” Furthermore, servicewomen may be uneasy with the appearance of requesting special treatment, or may face commanding officers who disapprove of abortion—a serious concern for women reliant on these officers for career advancement.

Vicki Saporta, President of the National Abortion Federation, says that military women seeking abortions face a no-win situation. “If you’re a woman in the military, you’re going to have to obtain a leave to get the care you need. If you’re honest about why you need that care, you put your military career in jeopardy. If you’re not honest, then you put your military career in jeopardy.”


Much more at the link so please go here to read: http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/religiousright/2111/military_abortion_ban:_female_soldiers_not_protected_by_constitution_they_defend?page=entire
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. right wing religious people are the most intolerant to others
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thank you, Dennis Kucinich, for supporting this policy.
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 02:43 AM by suzie
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. yeah... and he'd be wrong for it, just like you
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 03:38 PM by fascisthunter
wanting to control people's bodies. You deserve no respect for your point of view, you realize this right? He loses lot's of respect from me on this issue. Because when you take a person's choice in deciding what's right for their bodies away from them you you become that persons arbiter. In essence you claim to think you know what's best for others you could probably care less about. This is fanaticism and it will come to an ugly end in this country.

Anti-abortion is nothing but religion forcing their views down all religious and non-religious peoples' throats, that's why I won't respect you or any other hypocrite who tries to inhibit a women's right to choose. It's not your body, and it is directly related to a women's health, so mind your business.

Also, this might blow your simple right wing mind away so get ready for this... I can agree and disagree with a politician I like, it has nothing to do with loyalty, get it?!
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dispicable policy.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Let's cut off Viagra to the military!
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. sad knr
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is awful!
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. A few problems with this story
1. All females are tested for pregnancy before deployment and can not deploy pregnant.

2. It is a violation of General Order 1 to engage in sexual intercourse while in theater unless the couple is married (to each other).

Now I am not saying it is right to order no sex, but that is the rule.

She does not have to go on leave, she can admit she is pregnant and she will be sent home immediately. Of course she will have to accept the punishment for violation of the order.

It is the same order the outlaws drinking alcohol, reading playboy, or Maxim, or anything remotely offense to the Islamic Culture.

Stupidest rule ever in my opinion, but none the less a lawful order of which many women and men are punished for every year.

Plus birth control is free for military, condoms are issued everywhere, Pills are available for the asking.

Anyone who is getting pregnant in country, I have a hard time being sympathetic for. Not saying I agree with rule or the law for that matter, but it is there and there really is no reason not to be using birth control.
Ok Flame away, but I just wanted to lay out what I have actually seen there.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The case sited was a rape
.
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then she still would not have had ot go on leave
she would have been sent home anyway for being pregnant.

It is a detestable policy (the abortion issue, not the sending home if pregnant) but the story seems to have been embellished for the drama, and either not factual or there is more to the story than is being presented.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. And what happens to men when they have sex while overseas?
That never happens. No sir.

And what happens to the men these women have had sex with? Be serious.
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. If Identified they get courrt martialed too
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 06:02 AM by GA_ArmyVet
Usually someone walks in on them (not a lot of privacy on these camps) or the rumors spread, it really isnt that hard to figure out who is having sex there. But yes, both people involved are court martialed. Just my opinion, but it is a stupid regulation, but it is there and is enforced, strictly.

Anyway the punishment was not the point of the post, the point was if you are pregnant you dont have to take leave, you are going to be re-deployed home. There are no day care facilities on deployed military bases. The story seemed to be embellished to make the point more dramatically and I belive that weakens the argument.
The next issue is where would you have an abortion there, not a lot of ObGyns on duty there. Pregnant soldiers are not deployed and if they become pregnant they are sent home. The premise of the argument is inaccurate.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Women shouldn't need to be redeployed home
just to get an abortion; that's not acceptable logic.
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Ok, that fine as well
but that is not the arugment. The argument here is the premise that they have to go on leave to get an abortion or do it themselves, which is not accurate. The story is embellished to illicit an emotional reaction instead or relying on logic and fact. That is my point. I am not saying I agree with the policy, but if you are going to argue a point, you can't exagerate and not expect to be called on it. It weakens the acutal argument.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. So you're saying they have a third option
which is to be deployed away from their unit and shipped home in order to have outpatient surgery?

That's more drastic and unreasonable than just going on leave, I'm not sure why you'd think people would have a less emotional reaction to that.

I'm also not sure why you have a problem with people having an emotional reaction to bigoted policies against women. That SHOULD elicit an emotional reaction. It should make people feel outraged, like any other injustice. Why's that wrong?
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Not flaming you, but birth control is not 100% effective n/t
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. No, I get that,
I was simply stating addtional options that are provided there. The big issue here is that they dont do abortions in theatre for these reasons:

1. You cant be deployed if you are pregnant.

2. You can not legally have sex while you are there.

3. If you obey the regulations, there is no need for abortion facilities, unless you have a miraclous conception.

4. If you are a rape victim , you are not going to stay in country. Despite not being her fault for the rape, it is not a wise idea to let someone who has experienced a personal attack and psychological trauma to remain in a location where she will be near her attackers and be required to carry a loaded weapon.

5. If you are a rape victim, during the sexual assault examination it is standard procedure to prescribe a pill to prevent pregnancy. I do not know the name of the pill, but was informed by the doctor that is was a type of morning after pill.

6. If she is pregnant in country, it pretty much proves she committed a violation of General Order #1, which prohibits sex in country. Both she and the male have committed Court Martial offenses, which is a felony offense, they could chose to punish with and Article 15, which equates to a misdemeanor but the offense is a felony.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Several comments on this post.
"Despite not being her fault for the rape, it is not a wise idea to let someone who has experienced a personal attack and psychological trauma to remain in a location where she will be near her attackers and be required to carry a loaded weapon. "

This is a good argument for sending home every soldier who's been in a firefight. I'm not sure why you think a woman who's experienced an attack and trauma can't be trusted with a loaded weapon, but men who've been through trauma and attacks can be trusted with weapons. Revenge attacks against local civilians after a buddy's been killed happen with some frequency.

---
You seem to be under the impression that rape victims as a rule report rape. And that they report it quickly enough to make a morning after pill effective. This does not demonstrate an appropriate level of understanding of the dynamics at play for you to be taking part in this conversation.

-------
You seem to be under the impression that laws prosecuting military women for being pregnant are fair and not misogynistic because the woman has the right to turn in her lover if she wants. See if you can spot the problem with that.
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Ok. thank you for you response.
1. "Despite not being her fault for the rape, it is not a wise idea to let someone who has experienced a personal attack and psychological trauma to remain in a location where she will be near her attackers and be required to carry a loaded weapon. "
This is a good argument for sending home every soldier who's been in a firefight. I'm not sure why you think a woman who's experienced an attack and trauma can't be trusted with a loaded weapon, but men who've been through trauma and attacks can be trusted with weapons. Revenge attacks against local civilians after a buddy's been killed happen with some frequency.

No, The difference is her attackers live on post with her. There is no where to withdraw her form the suspects in the unit. That is the point. Now I have never been raped, but I have been in quite a few firefights and I would be willing to bet you that I did not experience the trauma a woman incurs from being raped. My point is that you would never let a person, man or woman, carry a weapon near a person that was suspected of causing them that amount of pain. Surely you can see that placing two distraught people with loaded weapons in close proximity to each other is not a wise thing to do. Also, the number of rape counselor and support needed to help a someone recover from this sort of trauma does not exist at most locations in theater.

---
2. ***You seem to be under the impression that rape victims as a rule report rape. And that they report it quickly enough to make a morning after pill effective. This does not demonstrate an appropriate level of understanding of the dynamics at play for you to be taking part in this conversation.***

You seem to be making an assumption of my understanding of anything and assuming because we have a different point of view on something that you are somehow more intelligent than I am, or that you have seem greater grasp of concept than I do. How very condescending and dismissive. I have worked investigations both in the Military and out, for the last 30 years, and I have seen more rapes, assaults, murders and child sexual abuse cases that I have quite a bit of insight on the victims and subjects. I was not assuming anything except that the story was presenting statements as facts that simply are not true.


-------
3. ***You seem to be under the impression that laws prosecuting military women for being pregnant are fair and not misogynistic because the woman has the right to turn in her lover if she wants. See if you can spot the problem with that.***

Quite the contrary,I stated several times that I disagree with policies and laws in place, but they are there. My point was, is and will be, that the story said women in combat zones have to go on leave in order to get an abortion. That simply is not true. A woman will not be deployed if she is pregnant. If she gets pregnant in the theater, she will be sent home, not on leave, she will be flown at taxpayer expense and receive medical care of her choice.

Will she have to answer for violating orders in a combat zone? yes.

Will the male have to answer for it as well? Yes.

If she was raped, and does not report it, there is not a lot anyone can do until she lets the appropriate people know, that does not mean I do empathize and belittle her plight.

I mentioned that the morning after pill was available to rape victims since one of the statements in the article was that rape victims can not be treated, which is not an accurate statement. Obviously, women who have reported they have been raped have not be treated for rape, nor had sexual assault counseling or anything else since all of that initiated on the report of the crime.


For the record, I am against all of the policies that you discussed. Again thank you for your response, I truly do not mean to demean anyone in my posts, and I prefer to have a discussion with someone that can argue their point with facts and evidence not personal attacks. I think I do have something to add to the discussion, however if you prefer not to discuss issues and would rather attack the person instead of the opinion, then we have nothing further to say.

Thank you.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I believe you don't think your posts are demeaning to women.
Edited on Sat Dec-19-09 09:24 PM by noamnety
And yet, I believe they ARE demeaning to women, on several levels.


I am concerned that you seem to be saying that giving the morning after pill to a rape victim is any kind of substitute for confidential and available access to abortion. The military screws women over by making it a crime to get pregnant unless they are raped - it means that they can't get medical treatment for a medical condition unless they are willing to be court martialed. It puts women in grave medical danger, forcing them to have to chose between prosecution or undergoing abortions in unsafe conditions.

And the military screws women over for reporting a rape. It's a career killer. She shouldn't have to report a rape or kill her career to have access to medical care, including the morning after pill.

Once she makes the claim, her rapist - who is already proven to be violent - knows where she lives and has access to her. Requiring her to report a rape in order to get care without being prosecuted puts her at physical risk.

I don't know why it is that the victim should be sent home because she might be a danger to the rapist. I don't know why the concern is that she has access to weapons, when it's the other person who is the violent criminal. I think that is a uniquely male and dismissive view of rape victims.
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dusmcj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. so you can't get laid while deployed but you can get contraceptives ?
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 11:34 PM by dusmcj
if so, seems like the brass is showing a little leg (they know their policy is an assload of BS)

Oh BTW for the general reader: fuck islamic culture. it's none of their business what I jerk off to. That's the freedom we're fighting for.
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GA_ArmyVet Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yes, I know
I told you I thought the rule was stupid. But yea..it is illegal to get laid there or drink or even look dirty magazine.
Incredibly stupid rules, however, there is a reason why it was ordered

This policy initated back in the 90's. It was specifically stated during Bosnia, the first time I recall it be prohibited. Seems there were several domestic disputes, which orginated from soldiers hooking up there. Domestic Disputes are bad, but add to the mix that both people are carrying loaded weapons and it gets ugly quick. The military's answer: No Sex for anyone deployed. Not a very realistic response but it did effectively reduce the number of domestic distubances.
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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Even though its against rules to have sex while in theathre
To not have abortion on base is punishing women who break the rule with pregnancy. That is a huge violation of constitutional rights. The punishment for breaking rules in military should end at a woman's uterus.
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. I am horrified - I had no idea.
Disgusting.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ugh...horrible.
And stop these stupid wars so our servicepeople can come home. And these stupid rules about "no sex." Yeah, ship them off for years on end and try to force abstinence. This country is so sick.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yea well do y'all still want to join the military yet? ...you can still get raped too...
as over 20% of women do ...and that's only those that report it. I'll let you guess how many actually get raped not to mention sexual harassment and sexual battery ...oh silly me ...I just mentioned it. Oh how our military is so honorable ...fighting them over there so they don't get us here ...well with out considering them, there are plenty of sociopaths that will get you here.
:rant:
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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Man your signature got me...
I thought there was a little bug on my screen.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-19-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. LOL ...it worked.
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