Bernie Sanders on KO speaks for me

[WI_DEM]

acknowledges not a good bill, but has some very good things in it and is working to strengthen it and working with WH to do so. He has not ruled out voting for bill because he realizes it may mean years before any other opportunity comes up. Praises Dean, but says as a United States Senator he has to consider many different things. Go Bernie!

[katsy]

1. Question:

Why not take the mandated purchase of insurance out and vote for the rest of the bill?

[grantcart]

3. mandates are a key part

if you eliminate the right to not ensure because of preexisting conditions then you creat a situation called "adverse selection"

only sick people would buy and after they had received care would cancel.

the insurance, private or public would collapse.

if you are going to accept all conditions all the time then you have to have a mandate to spread the risk pool

this is a simple economic fact of life and is true for single payer as well.

[regnaD kciN]

7. That's the big problem, isn't it...?

I've regrettably come to the conclusion that, if you eliminate the "cherry-picking" of customers (not just pre-existing conditions, but refusing to renew people if they get sick) and don't require everyone to buy insurance, what you're likely to see is insurance rates (yes, even for that insurance you get "free" from your employer) skyrocket to the point where those who are currently covered will no longer be able to afford coverage.

It seems like we're on the horns of a dilemma here: either bite the bullet and require mandated coverage (accompanied by as much government support as possible to keep people from having to pay too much out of pocket), or allow insurance companies to drop people who are "bad risks" -- which, essentially, leaves us right back where we are today. I'm not saying that's an argument why we must pass this bill -- but I am saying those are the choices for the near-term, and we're going to have to pick one or the other.

[ramapo]

9. Bullshit on mandate

The solution to preventing people from buying insurance only when they are sick already exists. It is called continuity of coverage. In other words, if you are to be covered for a condition, preexisting or not, then you must not have had any gaps in coverage of more than a few months.

The problem is twofold. Number one, people want insurance but are denied coverage because they have been treated for a medical condition. NJ has a mandated COVERAGE. Insurance companies cannot say no. However, if you have not had insurance then they don't have to pay for a preexisting condition. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to carry insurance.

Now the other side is that the insurance companies are gouging us. Hence the need for controls, regulations, and competition; three things missing from the bill. People need affordable insurance. So many who want insurance just can't afford it.

The gyrations in this bill determining payments, subsidies, mandates, etc. is truly a nightmare. It is enough to make me think my government is incapable of doing anything that makes sense.

The simple solution is single payer paid through a payroll/income tax. It would be progressive. Everybody in, everybody pays. Dream on.

[grantcart]

11. single payer paid through a payroll/income tax is a mandated enrollment

single payer, which I support, is by definition a system that mandates universal participation.


confusing the situation by saying "bullshit on mandates" only muddles the point and leaves people with the idea that single payer must somehow be voluntary. It is not.

[WeDidIt]

10. Then put the mandates back in when you "fix the bill"

You've got until 2014.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[walldude]

12. You are assuming the pre-existing conditions clause will remain

with a reasonable cap on premiums. That's a lot of assumption considering what they have done to this bill already.

[grytpype]

5. There's no sense in me answering, is there?

You think it's a mean corporatist plan to put people in insurance jails and nothing will change your mind.

[katsy]

13. I say what I mean.

In this case I asked a question, which has been answered by a few very knowledgeable people.

There's much for me to digest here and people have been very helpful.

You, on the other hand, are snippy and not very helpful at all.

[WeDidIt]

2. He should vote no on cloture unless they pull the mandates

then argue that they've said they'd come back and fix the bill later, so when they revisit it to fix it, they can slide the mandates back in along side a public option.

[whirlygigspin]

8. I think that would work

what say ye?

[spanone]

4. yep

[Forkboy]

6. As always WI_DEM, you are a notch above many others here.

And you have my respect. Thank you for disagreeing with Dean without over reacting and trying to smear the man. :thumbsup:

Bernie is a good man, and I take his words seriously on any issue.