The disdain & criticism for the 'left' is insult to injury -

[debbierlus]

Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of citizens being marginalized by the democratic party as the far left...

The fringe left...

First, let's get one thing straight. It is not just the left that wants real healthcare reform. A majority of American citizens want a real public option. This was shown in poll after poll after poll. People do not want to be enslaved to the insurance companies. People HATE the insurance companies. They hate having to fight to get covered benefits paid. They hate being at the mercy of their approval for needed care. They hate the greed of the CEOs. And, you can bet blood or money that when people were polled about the public option, it was not just in support of the pathetic and paltry non-public option that was in the House bill that covered less then 5% of the population that they supported, but a public option for everyone. People want competition and choice and not to be at the mercy of the merciless insurance companies. This is just common sense. These are NOT fringe or extremists ideas. People are sick of being held financial hostage by these mafiaoso corporations.

And, the majority of people could have been sold on single payer, if it was sold as Medicare for All and the President came out and explained that the system would not be privatized health care at all, only the same PAYMENT system as utilized by Medicare. The dems only had to capitalize on this hate of private insurance companies to lead the charge for real reform.

But, they never did. They never even BEGAN to fight (except a few, Kucinich, Sanders, a handful of others)... Instead they developed legislation with the MAIN purpose of PROTECTING private health insurance, big pharm, and health care industry profits. That was the goal. When Obama FINALLY came out and gave his health insurance reform speech in August, he assured the public that he was not in this to put the insurance companies out of business and stressed they provided a needed service. What he failed to state was that the service could be done up to 100% CHEAPER, if instituted by the government under Single Payer and that the health insurance companies provide not a SINGLE HEALTH CARE SERVICE.

Obama and the dems failed to address the very ESSENCE of the health care crisis.

And, so, legislation was crafted that would not fix the real problem under the excuse that it could not pass. I never bought that lie and I still don't. If you disagree with me, just remember inauguration day and the palpable feeling of change and hope that Obama unleashed but never capitalized upon.

So, the talking point of a robust public option became a non-public public option in the House.

And, the non-public public option became no public option in the Senate.

And, then the drug reimportation from Canada amendment bill that Obama campaigned upon went down in flames leaving America at the mercy of the Pharmaceutical Drug Lords.

And, then the no denial of insurance for preexisting conditions became the ability of the insurance company to charge higher premiums based on preexisting conditions.

On and on and on it went....

And, now, the PEOPLE (and remember a fact that they seem to continually forget, the MAJORITY of the people in this country are the left)...the people are being told to support this bill because no RATIONAL person would be against passing this bill. The White House spokesperson, Robert Gibbs had this response to this stated question:

“How better do you address those who don’t have insurance… passing a bill that will cover 30 million uninsured or killing a bill?” he added. “I don’t think any rational person would say killing a bill makes any sense at this point.”

We are IRRATIONAL you see. He manipulates the context (no one is against 30 million uninsured being insured, people are against mandates to buy into a mobster private insurance protection racket - thank you Keith Olbermann!) and then decries the opposition as irrational.

Of course, the 'left' should be used to this type of treatment by now. We have been told to shut the fuck up (classy, Mr. Emanuel), accused of wanting ponies for expecting even the most minimal of sane policy decisions in the PEOPLE'S favor, and perpetually painted as naive and weak in our quest to end the wars in the middle east.

Overall, it has been a big FU to the PEOPLE (not the left - the people) and now, they are SURPRISED people are standing up and protesting the latest screwing?

I don't know what this White House is thinking, but it is REALLY bad politics to continually shit on the people who elected you and give them absolutely zero reason to support you. And, it is pouring gasoline on a smouldering FIRE to INSULT the people after you kick them in the teeth.

Mr. Obama, take note. We CAN and WILL primary your ass in 2012, if this behavior does not stop IMMEDIATELY, and you don't start championing policies for the US citizens.

We really have nothing left to lose. It is YOUR choice.

[AllentownJake]

1. They fuck up and they always blame us

ALWAYS

[roguevalley]

62. lefities remember what a dem is and fight for dem values. the rest? meh.

[polichick]

2. "We CAN and WILL primary your ass in 2012" - Yes we can! nt

[stray cat]

10. but can you win?

[Kermitt Gribble]

97. The real question isn't can WE win a primary challenge.

The real question is can Obama win the GE in 2012 without help from the left? I doubt he can, and a few months of ass kissing before the election isn't going to cut it this time.

[liberation]

104. Unless things "change" significantly soon... all those youngins doing all the foot work for Obama 08

will grow up to be cynical b*stards. Good luck winning without them, with the worst employment market in recent history, two unpopular wars, and a miserable failure at governing. LOL.

[ChiciB1]

115. Many Of Those "Youngins" Have Already Forgotten! They Did The

hard work for a while, but have gone on to find something else. Never have I seen the young so united, I don't think I'll see it again in my life!

WHO DID WE REALLY ELECT?? That's a question I don't think I can answer. I DON'T THINK it was the person I THOUGHT we were electing!! I've said this for a long time now, and many didn't agree. Now, I'm beginning to see many "seeing the light" but we are still SCREWED!

[Amonester]

170. Yeah, but "they" know where his kids are.

And "they" made sure he knows that "they" know where his kids are.

We The People Need A Leader who cannot be "intimidated" (and can be "protected" enough to tell "they" to go eff themselves).

[frylock]

109. can you win?

i already who you'll blame when the dems get their asses handed to them in 2010.

[fascisthunter]

122. if hope is all you need

maybe its all we need too

[edc]

126. If you don't fight how will you know?

[MissDeeds]

136. At the rate he's going

can he win in 2012? I doubt it. He's losing the very people who worked their butts off and emptied their pockets to help him win.

[zogtheobvious]

158. But if our candidates are Republican Lite, do we WANT to win?

Seriously. We aren't in this for the party. We're in this so we can quit having our government manipulated by the megacorporations.

I'm not interested in electing a Democrat who's just going to turn around and screw his/her base. It's why I voted against Hillary, and it's gonna turn my vote against Obama if he doesn't quit forgetting who elected him.

[AndrewP]

12. LOL. I have the audacity of hope for a primary challenge

[polichick]

15. So we finally get some change we can believe in! :)

[Avalux]

3. You have marginalized yourselves and now stand with the teabaggers -

against Obama and the Democratic Party.

All you do is whine and moan and I'm sick of listening to it. You've taken all your marbles and gone home, just like your counterparts on the right.

Congratulations!!

[polichick]

6. Nobody is going home - we've just begun to kick some corporate-tool ass! nt

[stray cat]

7. Really? Fill me in on what you accomplished because I don't see any new jobs

or anything else from your efforts.

[polichick]

That makes no sense in the context of this thread. nt

[liberation]

103. What were you expecting from people with conditioned pavlovian responses and canned talking points?

Honest and independent train of thoughts? LOL.


I am just not interested in seeing this move again, I am starting to notice the same pattern of utter separation from reality by some of the Obama die-hards, as I saw some of my better half's family members display during the Bush years... and their cult to personality taking a preference over rational assessment of what they were supporting and/or defending.


The more things change...

[Echo In Light]

142. _

[Goldstein1984]

147. A picture is worth a thousand words

Cliche' but true.

Americans are pacified with entertainment, with comes with messages every few minutes telling them that happiness is just one spending spree and a little debt away.

Buy what you need and can afford--"for everything else, there's Master Card."

Both parties are corporate-owned. The only thing that matters is principles, not who the party is selling us this election cycle.

[Dragonfli]

128. His purpose was only to attack, he serves a lord you see and so he speaks for a "God".

A God that never lies, works in mysterious ways that we mortals do not understand, and must be obeyed no matter who must be burned at the stake for the sake of such goodness. It is an imperative for this type to attack dissenters.

Ridiculous I know, but it is the only way I have been able to understand why authoritarian "follower" types must follow and believe the big daddy no matter what contradictory evidence is presented, they appear to need to be told what to think and accept it blindly.

His "daddy figure" will protect him from what he is told is evil, he fears not being led like some people fear heights. He must protect the words and actions of his lord or risk losing that lords protection.

I learned a great deal about this personality type reading John Deans books and these people are not just found in the Republican party, in fact a rather large cabal of such automatons spend time in GDP on this very board.

[Goldstein1984]

148. Blind party loyalty is herd behavior

and the ruling class love herd behavior. They march right to the slaughter.

[Dragonfli]

176. Lambs to the slaughter raised in submission to be fed on with little to no fuss /nt

[Goldstein1984]

181. They're cheering and saying thank you in some cases!

I'm thinking of those who believe in the "American Dream," and those who march patriotically off to wars the country has no business fighting.

[AllentownJake]

13. and I see nothing from yours

That symbol has taken the biggest opportunity for real change in 70 years and set it back another 30.

[pundaint]

160. We hired people to do that

But they decided to work on someone else's projects. So we've got to fire them and hire some new folks in '10 and '12.

[dionysus]

124. a couple dozen people bitching on a message board are kicking corporate ass?

:rofl:

[girl gone mad]

150. Whay are you here..

if that's what you really think?

[AllentownJake]

14. and you stand with war criminals and Goldman Sachs. nt.

[Avalux]

17. I absolutely do not.

Does everyone forget where this country was a year ago? YES, corporations run this country, they have for a very long time. I am amazed people actually thought Obama would take office and *POOF*! he'd magically right all the wrongs and drive the corporate demons out of control. It's unrealistic and it's a damn shame he's now being blamed for not being a superman.

Any kind of change will happen in small, even microscopic steps because corporations have such a tight grip. I support the HRC bill because it's something and it can be built upon and improved. If we don't pass it now it will NEVER happen.

Obama deserves to finish his term before he's hauled out in front of the party's base and condemned.

[AllentownJake]

18. The man couldn't do a simple fucking vote count

and he's about to feed us to those corporations in mandates he opposed because he made a mistake

Fuck Him.

[Avalux]

20. Obama isn't in control of a singe fucking vote count.

AND, he didn't write the bill. If you want to yell "fuck you" at someone, yell it at Reid and his Senate buddies.

[AllentownJake]

23. He put this item on the calendar

above all else other than the stimulus. He served in that body. Lieberman didn't just magically appear last week.

The blame for this fiasco lays at his feet, and now we all have to live with the consequences of his bad chess move.

[rhett o rick]

72. Ah, the "he didnt write the bill" excuse. Does he like the bill or not? Why doesnt he say?

I would feel better if he was telling the Senate he was upset with them. He isnt.

[JDPriestly]

106. Obama has made a fool of himself.

Just a few months ago he said he wanted a public option. That's what he told his base, his supporters. All the while he was negotiating for no public option with the insurance companies. He double-crossed us. He said one thing while doing another. He is not fighting for the American people. He is a sell-out. Enough said.

[ChiciB1]

120. NO, What You Don't Understand Is This... Obama Was Elected To Lead!

He was elected to take the BULLY PULPIT and whip his team together! He "whipped" a team together, but is ISN'T OUR TEAM, or at least the TEAM he USED to get where he is now!

So, he walked away, and wants WHAT NOW?? Not getting ANY from me!!!

[pundaint]

163. He didn't write the bill but

He sold us out to PhRMA at the beginning
He took single payer off the table at the beginning
He used the influence of the power we gave him on the promise of serving us, to encourage the selling out of every aspect of reform, to Republicans and Connecticut sleazebags who only wanted to undermine the benefits for the American People.

[Marr]

38. Oh, now he needs to finish his term before he's criticised.

I was wondering when that tired old, "he's only been in office for X months" would be dropped.

It's not a matter of his achieving *too little*-- the problem is he's actively moving in the wrong direction. He's handing corporate America more power and more wealth. If you're walking *backwards*, you're never going to get there.

[Iowa]

130. Well said. I agree.

[laughingliberal]

43. There is nothing in the bill to build on except higher corporate profits

I was with it all the way til they stripped the last of any sliver of public choice out of it. That was all that was there which could, under any reasonable scenario, have been built on. The way to build on it is to have something there that people who have it like and then others want to have it. Nothing here like that. It's hell. It's like growing up with abusive parents who beat the shit out of you and then beat you for crying about it. Spare me.

[rhett o rick]

73. There is nothing in the Senate bill to build on. It is a slap in the face of America. nt

[rhett o rick]

71. If only he would act if he was on our side. He seems ok with the Senate health care bill.

And I do remember where we were a year ago. We were involved in two wars, the banks were blackmailing us, no health insurance reform, DADT, DOMA, we were being spied upon by the NSA, bush war criminals were not being held accountable, the Justice dept was full of bush appointees.....

And we are still there today. It wouldnt be so bad, and I could show more patience if the Pres acted like he was going to fix those things. How long would you recommend I wait? And then there is Rahm, apparently speaking for the President telling us to STFU.

[frylock]

112. great response

[rhett o rick]

132. Thanks. I dont want to dump on the pres but have been patient long enough. If he would give us a

sign. And not Rahm telling us to STFU.

[raccoon]

75. Great post. nt

[bvar22]

92. I remember where we were a year ago....

..and we are FARTHER along the same path.
NOBODY expected that everything would be solved overnight.
THAT is YOUR Strawman.
Most "HOPED" there would be a "CHANGE" of direction.

The Wall Street Bailout without reforms,
The current HCR Bill,
and the INCREASES in Military Spending
have only made the Corporations STRONGER and MORE powerful.

[bvar22]

93. delete

*

[sabrina 1]

144. That's what we were told by the Clinton administration

about the abhorrent, vengeful 'Welfare Bill'. How long ago was that now? It's amazing how we can take the pittance the poor get away from them, their crime of course in this 'money-is-GOD' society is simply being poor, but the gangsters on Wall St., the REAL 'Welfare Queens' who collapsed this country's entire economy, are 'too big to fail'. So far, THAT bill has not been 'fixed' as we were told it would be.

As for your talking point? No one thought Obama could turn the country around in a year, or even four years and 'drive the corporate demons out of control'. I don't know whose idea it was to keep repeating that nonsense, but please, if you want to make a point, use facts not partisan talking points.

But since you mention it, what we did NOT expect was that he would appoint these 'corporate demons' to cabinet positions, bail them and their Wall St. crooks out with tax dollars, and give them even more power and more money to gamble with.

It's one thing to argue that no one could fix the immense problems this country has with the corporate takeover of government. But can you explain why someone who ran on 'NOT business as usual' instead of clearing them out of his administration and appointing people who got it right all along, did the exact opposite?

If you think that this huge giveaway to the greediest people on earth, so greedy they consider their bottom line above the lives of their fellow Americans, once handed to them, will EVER be given up by them and their Congressional enablers, you must also believe in Santa Clause.

It will be a huge mistake to pass this bill as it is now. Trying to pry those profits out of the hands of the despicable Private Insurance industry after the fact, would be like trying to raise someone from the dead.

[pundaint]

161. No it takes a few years to prepare a run. Mobilization needs to start now.

[donco6]

164. There is no "there" there.

You really think this is some kind of reform? In what possible sense? Forcing people to buy insurance? Pfft. This is exactly what Dean says: a HUGE corporate handout to health insurance companies that will bind us to them for all eternity. Now they will have a virtually UNLIMITED amount of money to fight any kind of real reform. The only change that will happen from this point is the reinterpretation of the bill to favor the insurance companies even further. None of the "reforms" will be protected and they will all fall by the wayside - and quickly too.

[leftstreet]

16. So what? Why disrespect 'Teabaggers' on this issue?

Has it occurred to you that some of those people voted for Obama?

:shrug:

[girl gone mad]

51. Except that we're not on the margins.

Teabaggers poll more favorably among Independents than the Democrats or Republicans do. 41% of all voters nationwide say Republicans and Democrats are so much alike that a new party is needed to represent the American people. The majority is against the current iteration of this bill. The majority is for a public option.

Welcome to the fringes, my friend.

[Waiting For Everyman]

61. If you're so sick of it, why open the OP's thread? n/t

[frylock]

114. because that's what they get paid to do

[Iowa]

133. I've often wondered if that's the case...

...people on staff whose job responsibilities include popping into forums once in awhile to tamp down criticism. If that's true, they're usually very bad at it. They almost always end up accomplishing the opposite.

[Dragonfli]

143. They are easy to spot by the talking points. (They all say the same things at the same time)

Almost as if they are all getting the same fax at the same time.

It reminds one of the way fox people and talk radio all seem to have the same talking points at the same time, in that case "the fax" has been confirmed to be real. The only difference between the moles here and the GOP is the origins of the faxes.

It is just Rahm and his message discipline team, don't let them intimidate you into not asking the questions that need to be asked. When you hire a Rove type animal as chief of staff, you get the rove like tactics.
Rahm is as smarmy and dishonest as they come and it shows quite often when he is servicing his corporate owners.

[sabrina 1]

149. You are right. I used to wonder about rightwingers

when I first went online several years ago. I remember asking them if there was a school somewhere that they all went to, as they all used the same talking points. I was actually proud back then that Democrats' comments were so clearly their own thoughts. That was just before political operatives starting appearing on Democratic blogs, doing exactly the same thing.

Then I read a post by a fairly prominent 'liberal' blogger who shall for now, remain nameless, in which he ruminated about how he 'admired' the tactics of the right, their message discipline etc. and even admired Rove.

I was shocked to see someone on the so-called 'left' so openly admit that they were more than willing to use the same deceptive tactics which I had thought we were supposed to expose, not use. The one difference I've observed on the 'left' however, is that the left operatives rarely if ever, appear on rightwing boards and tangle with the opposition. Their job seems to be to go after the base of the party. The rightwing operatives go after the 'left'.

Someone someday should write a book about the political blogosphere and how once politicians saw that the people might actually have found a way around the controlled media, they took steps to silence as many real progressives as they could.

The one used above, implying that those who have a disagreement with the WH, had unrealistic, immature expectations of Obama waving a magic want', is a familiar one. I see it on every progressive blog.

[Dragonfli]

157. You made an interesting observation.

"The one difference I've observed on the 'left' however, is that the left operatives rarely if ever, appear on right wing boards and tangle with the opposition. Their job seems to be to go after the base of the party. The right wing operatives go after the 'left'."

There is a theory that I have held since I first became aware of the operatives from within our party that have been running conservadems against progressives in races they had no business influencing. I noticed that the DLC was always at the center of such shenanigans. Rahm Emanuel has been one of the chief operatives on this front. I believe it is more of a conservative infiltration of a party that used to represent the working class, the poor, and the disenfranchised within our country than it is an honest expression of differing Democratic techniques that one may expect from within a large tent party.

I personally believe the plan has always been to take over the party from within thus neutralizing the only threat against the corporate interests as well as the only representation of the common people in the US. I see it as a "false flag" operation against the party, the working class and the poor by what are basically Republicans pretending to be otherwise simply for the purpose of destroying us from within.

It is a cynical theory I know, but if you look at the legislative goals of this faction of the party, there is little to no difference from the legislative goals of the GOP. It would explain your observation as well, why they don't attack Republicans but rather court them, even as they attack Democrats that attempt to legislate the goals of the actual Democratic platform.

If it walks like a duck....

[sabrina 1]

179. No, not cynical, realistic. You're not the only one

who believes that many members of Congress with a 'D' after their name, are infiltrators. The only difference between the DLC and the Right, is the DLC isn't particularly concerned about issues like abortion or gay rights. That allows them to pose as Democrats.

But on issues like forever war and the poor and minorities, or healthcare, any program that they consider to be an 'entitlement' program, and they, like the right, are particularly hateful towards 'the sixties' (something that really puzzled me from the right, then I saw the exact same thing on the 'left') there is no difference. Many of them are Reaganites from my experience of talking to them, who some try to hide, others not so much. That is why I got chills when I heard Obama praise Reagan. I guess I just put it aside and hoped he didn't mean it the way it sounded.

'False Flag Operation' is a good way to put it. I would not be one bit surprised. A silent coup many have said, and I used to think that was hyperbole. Now, I'm not so sure.

[Iowa]

172. What is striking to me is how badly they perform their mission...

Usually the trolls they hire get eaten alive and end up looking like fools. Their talking points are often poorly conceived and even more poorly articulated, and they tend to just plunge in without considering the mood of the thread. I guess I would expect a bit more nuance and sophistication. On the other hand, that they would even try to manipulate groups of educated, dedicated, and passionate people utilizing the same crude tactics that are used against the dolts on the right... well, that says a lot about their overall level of competence.

About the only way for a politician (or his hired hands) to manipulate progressives is to just blatantly lie and pretend to be something you're not. But that will only work once in a generation, and it was all used up in 2008.

[pundaint]

166. Anybody willing to pay me to advocate a Left Wing agenda on Right Wing posts

please contact me. I can make you a good deal.

[Iowa]

173. Damn! And all this time I've been doing it for free.

[donco6]

165. Yes, they are overrunning the board.

And obvious as all hell.

[freddie mertz]

69. Obama tossed progressives, women, labor, HCR activists, etc, out on the lawn.

That is what finally happened this week.

We didn't leave, we were thrown out.

Get it straight.

[glitch]

101. Try the whole damn planet.

The Obama Copenhagen speech was added insult to the injury of the US "effort" there.

[rhett o rick]

76. I stand against the corporatists. If the teabaggers are also standing such, then they are my

allies. It would be so much simpler if we could break this war down as between Democrats and non-Democrats. Yes that would make life easier. But the fact is that the Democratic tent is so big that there are the Peoples-Democrats vs. the Corp-Democrats. Rahm and the DLC are Corp-Democrats, so I stand against them. Whose side are you on?

[Skittles]

96. surely this is sarcasm

you cannot be this fucking stupid

[Iowa]

134. Ha! Sometimes short is better. I think I spent too much time responding (below).

[krabigirl]

102. Um, no, I don't stand with the fundie nutcase teabaggers. I'm a LIBERAL Democrat ro

not a centrist.

[frylock]

110. we stand with the teabagger fringe while you walk hand-in-hand with the republicans..

what's the fucking diff?

[fascisthunter]

123. and you might fall down from that high horse you sit upon

actually, what's so humorous is the fact that you don't sit on a "high horse" at all, just a small pony and it's gotten to your head, just like the Democratic Leadership.

As conservo democrats, you are making yourselves a minority and don't even realize it.

[Iowa]

129. No... you don't get it.

Progressives are almost the exact opposite of tea-baggers. Here's why:

Tea-baggers can be herded like sheep. They swallow whatever their leaders feed them and regurgitate it back. They don't think for themselves; they just "follow the leader" and do what they are told. They make no attempt to understand policy, and they have no clue that the Republican ideology they so enthusiastically support is directly opposed to their interests.

Progressives realize that politics isn't just some sport where you root for a team. They understand that brand-names have become meaningless, and they know that the only thing that matters is policy. Progressives will actually CHALLENGE the politicians they voted for if those politicians sell them out. Tea-baggers would NEVER do that; they just root for their politicians no matter how bad their politicians are screwing them.

Get it? Tea-baggers and your fellow DUers aren't alike at all - they're opposites. Yet you come here and insult and malign your fellow DUers by accusing them of being like tea-baggers.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Instead of standing with working people and fighting for the common good, you choose to stand with the very politicians who are selling out on health-care reform. Instead of trying to understand this corporate written bill and thinking for yourself, you choose to play "follow the leader" and express outrage that everyone here doesn't do exactly the same as you.

Now... who is really more like tea-baggers? Is it your fellow DUers, as you so petulantly claim... or is it you?

[Umbral]

137. And there is no shortage of people thinking they can shame you into submission. nt

[Zodiak]

146. Guilt by association has no rhetorical merit...we are NOT teabaggers

Nor does accusing others of whining and moaning. Just schoolyard jeers that will serve no purpose but to piss off your opponents even more.

If you are sick of listening it, then you be twice as sick when your political leaders (and you, apparently) do things that you KNOW will elicit this response.

As far as taking the marbles. ....we don't have any marbles. We sat down to play, and Obama and the DLC grabbed all our marbles, saying "I'm the progressive here...get out of our way".

We're just going home as he trades all our marbles to the conservatives for a song.

We made the mistake of hoping, but now we are going to make some new marbles and hold them more tightly this time.

Excuse us...oh, and if you want our votes, you had better come with some good marbles to trade. Not the promise of marbles.

[inna]

153. what a ridiculous and vicious post.

:thumbsdown:

:puke:

[jberryhill]

171. Oh so the DNC chair - Dean - who got us through a tense primary situation...

...which could have blown up and resulted in Democratic fail, is now a marginal figure.

The majority of Democrsts DO NOT SUPPORT this. I stand with the majority of my party.

[Mari333]

4. I saw it tonight on Tweetys damned show

a bunch of them blaming the left rather than dealing with the issues.
one of them said "Oh , the democrats dont want to be associated with those san francisco liberals"

they are saying "Fuck the base" is what they are doing.

fine, you fuck us, you lose.

[Marr]

40. Well, we're completely irrelevant, you understand.

Just a tiny, fringe minority that can and should be ignored.

Except when Democrats lose. Then it's all our fault, because we're so damned vitally important that they can't win without our votes.

[frylock]

116. yep

[laughingliberal]

45. Speaking of San Francisco, I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about how

SF has a public option for the residents of their city. Anyone who wants to buy in can have it for $60.00. The rest of the funding was provided by a progressive income tax. They have cut the costs of emergency care in half. Participant satisfaction is rated very high. I just looked it up. Here's a link:

http://www.healthysanfrancisco.org/about_us/history.aspx

[defendandprotect]

54. Wow . . . smart of San Francisco - -

IMO, lost in all this avoidance of single payer and any real public option is

the state that the health of Americans is in --

We desperately need preventive medicine --

All this system is doing is creating more ill -- every medication has horrific side

effects now, which are treated with more medications with more side effects!!!

On and on!!!

Slash and burn medicine!!!

Thanks for that positive news!!!

[KakistocracyHater]

64. yup SF HAS a public option for all who live there-hell yes San Fran Values

*

[JDPriestly]

107. And if this bill is passed, San Francisco will no longer have that plan.

So, that is why this bill should never be passed. It is a bail-out for the insurance companies and nothing more.

[bvar22]

90. They said "Fuck the Base"....

..when Rahm was appointed CoS.



The DLC New Team
Republican Lite ONLY
Working Class Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

[fascisthunter]

127. blaming the left has been an intentional distraction for a longtime

now that people see what we on the left are against, they are literally rallying are a comon interest, which is against corporate take over of this country. We by default are the majority... yet they know what's better for "We the People"... how arrogant.

[Goldstein1984]

151. What I don't understand is why progressives are supposed

to support a party that doesn't support us?

Or why we're expected to be good little party units and support an incumbent who broke promises made to us.

If Obama wasn't going to follow a progressive course when elected, then he shouldn't have made those commitments.

I voted for the progressive ideas, not the party.

I'm on course. If Obama wants my vote next time around he will also have to stay on course.

[stray cat]

5. I wonder if we owe the same courtesy to the far right -

[scentopine]

8. Obama has set back protest and civil rights - we need to fight the right wing

even if they call themselves democratic "centrists".

[readmoreoften]

50. +1

[bvar22]

94. JACKPOT !!!!

we need to fight the right wing
even if they call themselves democratic "centrists".

I'm so THERE!



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Goldstein1984]

152. Let's take it one step further...

Who are the REAL Democrats? Progressives, or those to the right of us?

[DJ13]

9. Of course they always blame the left

Were the only thing standing in the way of a complete takeover of the Democratic Party by the Republican Light/DLC crowd.

They ruined their own party, so they're desperate to have another one to hide behind, and they're not happy that they cant run roughshod over us like they did over the Neanderthals on the right.

[ananda]

11. Government needs a strong left infusion.

Stat

[timeforpeace]

19. Has any president thrown so much of his base under the bus in such a short time?

[Avalux]

21. Has any president been thrown under the bus by his base in such a short amount of time? n/t

[timeforpeace]

28. "I know you are but what am I?" All you got is a PeeWee Herman sketch?

[Avalux]

29. Sorry,

but I gotta laugh. I don't know what else to do at this point...

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

55. Obama immediately eloped into the White House with the DLC and

the financial people who created this economic disaster --

Goldman Sachs sound familiar????

Rahm Emmanuel -- ?

Even Rep. John Conyers finally called out Obama the other day for listening

only to Raham Emmanuel!!!

Wake up --

[rhett o rick]

77. It was clearly his choice. He is siding with bankers, big pharm and the war hawks. He is responsib

le for those decisions.

[JDPriestly]

108. Hey! The president is not a king.

This is about the people being in charge. Yes, some Americans have different viewpoints than we do. But I doubt that any Americans want to be forced to by insurance at exorbitant prices from these vulture insurance companies. No one wants that. So, the president cannot force it on us. Call you senators and representative in Congress and tell them to vote against this bill unless it has a public option or another cost-cutting device other than just cuts to Medicare.

[NJmaverick]

22. People are dying and all you care about is your bruised ego?

self indulgent much?

[AllentownJake]

24. Obama fucked up

Live with it.

[Fire1]

26. He signed it already? Deal with that. n/t

[AllentownJake]

27. Wasted political capital

The entire world is worried about the economy, the President decides to go after a problem that has existed for 50 years instead of building political capital on the problem at hand.

[stillwaiting]

82. If we don't raise holy hell right now, he WILL sign it. Deal with that.

In all likelihood though, he'll sign it even if we DO raise holy hell. This fact does not mean that I've quit raging against this corporate machine though. Far from it.

[NJmaverick]

30. How exactly? By not having 60 senators

get real

[AllentownJake]

32. You don't propose legislation you can't pass

There were 7 people he had to lobby, not an entire congress.

He could have figured out if he had the votes 6 months ago.

[NJmaverick]

34. He is will end up doing a lot of good for millions of people

I am not going to fault the man because you didn't get what you wanted.

[AllentownJake]

35. He has doomed the middle class to a provision he

campaigned against and not as many people will be helped as he has estimated. He will do more damage than good.

He will never be forgiven for that, and it will haunt him for his Presidency.

[NJmaverick]

36. Do you realize the bill is not finished?

[AllentownJake]

37. This is the NAFTA moment

This is the moment where the left needs to step up and say NO loudly and clearly. Otherwise we will regret this moment in 10 years more than you will ever know.

[NJmaverick]

39. Millions will regret you getting your way

thousands may die

[AllentownJake]

41. They are going to die anyway

I don't know what I have to explain to the cheerleaders about the world we live in. You are about to put a 17% additional tax on the entire middle class with no government plan to compete with the insurance companies

In 5 years, they aren't going to strip the bad provisions, they'll strip the good because of the deficit.

[MessiahRp]

84. +1 THIS is what the ignorant tools supporting the bill because 'at least it's something' don't get..

Congress almost NEVER goes back and strengthens a public program after it was initially passed. They almost always revisit it to make huge cuts in the name of "deficit reduction" when really all it is is "wealth redistribution". They take those services away from poor people in the name of reform and then spend the money to subsidize corporations.

Passing something with the hopes that it will be able to be fixed later is a pipedream...

Sort of like expect Obama to come back to the left when he pandered to the center-right all during the general election.

Rp

[GreenPartyVoter]

119. +1. Fix the dang bill now!

[defendandprotect]

53. Americans are dying every day now BECAUSE of the insurance/pharma industries!!!

Rewarding them is going to help . . . ??? How??

A few may be saved by this bill which does nothing til 2014 except collect taxes

while insurance companies and pharma can increase prices until then!!

Many more will die because of this legislation!!!

[PassingFair]

66. The drama, the drama....

:nopity:

Listen to yourself....

[defendandprotect]

52. Obama's doing $600 BILLION/$800 BILLION "good" for insurance/pharma companies!!!

If that sounds "good" to you then you're really not thinking about what that

money could do to create a real health care program for Americans -- single payer!

Nor what that money could do for our nation's homeless and unemployed!!!

Enough welfare for the rich!!!

[truedelphi]

63. Right. he is doing a lot of good for a lot of people

not millions of people - but certainly the head of Citibank, JP Morgan, AIG, Goldman Sachs etc are pretty well taken care of by the President.

Just not any of us who work or who need jobs.

[defendandprotect]

57. Whether 60 corporate Dems or 70 corporate Dems, the results would be the same . . .

CORPORATISM = FASCISM --

[walldude]

25. Coming from the God of self indulgent

and frankly if you gave an iota of shit about the people dying you wouldn't be here denigrating every single person trying to put a stop to it in a way that they can afford. Instead you want to allow the government and insurance companies to extort money from the sickest among us. Yeah your a real fucking prince.

[NJmaverick]

31. Hey I hear Chris Mathews was talking about you on his show.

[Forkboy]

44. What were you saying about having no tolerence for childish insults again?

[donco6]

167. They paid ones are getting more and more frantic.

The masters must really be using the lash.

[freddie mertz]

70. Yes, he seems to have enlisted in the cause of alienating progressives, women, labor, etc.

He's the perfect jackass for the job, since anyone with either a brain or a conscience recognizes him as the self-loathing fool that he is.

[bvar22]

98. Nailed It...+1

"He's the perfect jackass for the job"
:patriot:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5524913&mesg_id=5527157

AND, he's doing his best to get this thread locked before it goes to the Top of The Greatest.
Oh, too bad.
He FAILED again

[Fire1]

33. And just what do you think is going to be the case if they kill this

"tentative" bill? I'll answer that for you. ANY chance of reform will be GONE for at least the next two or three decades.

[defendandprotect]

56. People will be dying right up to 2014 . . . which is the date on this legislation . . . tho taxes ..

could begin early in 2010???!!!

[eridani]

65. The"reform" will just make people poorer before killing them and bankrupting them anyway n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

118. Seriously, that's all you took away from that post?

[jberryhill]

180. This bill won't help them /nt

[Laelth]

42. Righteous rant. k&r n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[laughingliberal]

46. Just as a reality check, I went back the other day and read the 2008 platform of the party

Yeah, overall, same policy and legislation I've been supporting and fighting for. All these things I hear people calling a 'pony' here are actually the official party platform. I will judge the values of the Democratic party by the platform and know I am not the one out of step with the party. I, personally, think those who run for national office on the ticket of my party should support the platform of the party. As for party members who disagree with the platform they are welcome to their opinion and free to send delegates to the next convention to vote their wishes.

[bertman]

47. Debbierlus, you are a gem. This is indeed a righteous rant, as Laelth says. Rec. nt

[defendandprotect]

48. They hope we'll get really tired and go away . . .

Remember "Blazing Saddles" . . . Madeleine Kahn's "I'm so tired!" . . .

:evilgrin:

Meanwhile, want to add again that CATHOLICS want government run health care --

and they want CONTRACEPTION and ABORTION included -- !!!



TRUTH will only work to the advantage of the left and the majority --

That's why we are seeing so many LIES surrounding this issue --



:)

[mullard12ax7]

49. K&R, every single dem I know agrees

It's only on the internet and TV do I find the endless panderers posing as dems and insulting the shit out of every principle this country was built on, exactly like the repukes did and continue to do. They all exhibit the exact same blind loyalties, the same sloganeering, the same holier-than-thou attitudes that come from their completely brainwashed patterns of propaganda-like selling of themselves and everything else.

[tomm2thumbs]

58. it is entirely obvious that Obama would be championing these causes if he were Senator Obama

he's frankly trying to make his job/life easier, and one cannot necessarily not understand that - but our jobs as citizens are to make sure that folks in Washington aren't doing the easy things, but they are doing the hard things.

As Weiner said, he's compromised the compromises on his compromise, or words to that effect. Ironically, without Franken, this would have already been done through reconciliation, and no doubt would be stronger on many levels than this bill they are trying to push with 60

[LooseWilly]

59. You've called it well debbierlus...

Nothing like being called "irrelevant" or "irresponsible" (not to mention "a petulant child") for calling on the party to adhere to its own platform, to really inspire loyalty.

Loyalty to party when they abandon their own platform isn't loyalty, it's "blind obedience"... disloyalty to party when they abandon their own platforms isn't disloyalty at all... it's revolt in the face of being abandoned & conned.

I've got a growing sense of the need of some accountability. Obama may not want to have any legal accountability for the preceding administration... but that only redoubles my inclination to dish out some accountability for his administration. Sounds like I'm not the only one...

CHEERS
:toast:

[Waiting For Everyman]

60. K&R The spokesmen are dismissive of us "common people".

Even the Congress isn't that stupid. Yet.

So much goodwill turned to cynicism... and for what? More crap law isn't an accomplishment.

[Canuckistanian]

67. The fix was in as soon as Baucus refused to hear single payer advocates

The whole process started from compromise and went downhill from there.

Concession after concession was made to special interests who were never going to support ANY HCR.

And what's left is nightmare that will make things WORSE.

[theFrankFactor]

81. It's Rovian - It's Orwellian - It's a Corporatocracy!

Seize every upset as an opportunity to push the offending element even further!

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[billymayshere]

74. Draft Dean!

Cmon Dean I'm ready!

[Lorien]

78. And what no one is mentioning; sky high deductibles:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7259958&mesg_id=7259958

[Lorien]

79. It's an orchestrated effort by the corporate ruling class to marginalize anyone

with a conscious, ethics, or basic human decency. It's been going on for well over two decades now, and their rhetoric against us escalates every year. If you don't believe that bigger corporate profits at the expense of damn near everything is the ultimate GOOD, then you must be on the fringe of sanity. You're crazy, immature, unreasonable and not worth listening to. How else would they be able to mobilize the paranoid and undereducated underclass in this country into working so hard against every self interest imaginable?

[theFrankFactor]

80. Cong. Democrats Are Doing What They Are Being Paid For

Please see this. We have everything we need in principal to succeed in enacting the OBVIOUS will of the voters. The reason it's not happening is BECAUSE OF DEMOCRATS! They are owned! We are punked! This is why nothing happened during Bush and its not happening now. The Republicans are a much more effective MINORITY than Democrats as a MAJORITY! The only sane reason is that they (Democrats) are gaming us. See BlueDogs. See Max Bachus et al.

[kctim]

83. Posts like this

are why there is a distinction between left and far-left.

1. This issue is not the only thing that makes one considered "far-left."
2. The majority of Americans say they favor a public-option, but yet less than half say they are willing to pay for it.
3. Americans hate dealing with the DMV, social security offices, welfare offices etc... probably more than they do with the insurance companies. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans are satisfied with their current health care plans.
4. Every American would not be embracing single payer if it had been sold as Medicare for all. Why? Because Medicare is one of the largest taxes they pay each check and it is in trouble. What happens when you add hundreds of millions more to it? The taxes to pay for it go up big time.
5. It is NOT a fact that the majority of Americans are left, or right for that matter. They are in the middle and their views on issues range between left and right.
6. You can not and will not primary my President's ass in 2012. Why? Because more than 80% of us will vote for him while less than 10% of the fringe left may not.
7. You are correct, it is my President's choice, a choice that is pretty obvious and won't be that hard to make.

[kjones]

85. Embarassing question...

I'm sorry, I must not have been around yet for that iteration of the bill,
but what exactly was the "single payer" part? (not that it seems to matter anymore)

[asdjrocky]

87. Single payer means, in a nutshell, Medicare for all.

There are people here who could explain it far better, and I'm sure one will come along. It's good to ask questions, and I think they all matter.

Welcome to DU.

[Goldstein1984]

154. My company-provided healthcare plan costs about $900/month

I pay $300 of that.

If that $900/month could be diverted to support a single-payer Medicare-for-all program that helps not only me but other less fortunate people have medical coverage than I'm more than happy to see that change.

About 20% of that $900/month is profit for the insurance company. That profit could better be used providing medial care to those in need than funding multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses for industry executives.

Insurance companies are an unnecessary part of the medical industry. They contribute no healthcare; they cause no healthcare to happen; they often prevent healthcare from happening; they add psychological stress to the burden carried by a sick person.

A single payer system would replace a parasitic and exclusive element of the U.S. health care system with a democratic system.

[quiet.american]

86. Non-stop nonsense. nt

[asdjrocky]

88. Shhhhhh.

[quiet.american]

89. :) nt

[billh58]

91. I'm wondering

who the "we" are, in the hollow and misdirected threat: "we will primary your ass?" The OP uses an extremist tactic (perfected by the Neoconservatives, and adopted by the Far-Left) to label (divide?) other thinking Democrats as either being with her, or against her, and then presumes to speak for ALL Democrats.

Move along folks, no crows to see in this field because there are too many strawmen here.

[bvar22]

99. ?

"to label (divide?) other thinking Democrats"?
And you include yourself in THAT group?
:rofl:


"presumes to speak for ALL Democrats."

Now THAT is a REAL "Strawman".

She has NEVER presumed to speak for ALL Democrats, or NEVER stated that she did.
However, she DOES speak for a large number of long term, loyal Democrats who according to the Polls are very unhappy with the Obama Administration and the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership.
I am one of those.

[billh58]

178. And I am

NOT one of "those," but I have no problem with you being one of "those." See how that works?

[Jamastiene]

141. The "we" in this case is most everyone here, EXCEPT YOU...

in case you haven't noticed.

[billh58]

177. Perspective, like

location, is everything...;-)

[Jamastiene]

140. I've noticed that. You've been busy, haven't you? n/t

[quiet.american]

145. Lol. How long did it take you to come up with that one. nt

[Jamastiene]

174. Mere nanoseconds.

}(

[quiet.american]

175. It showed. nt

[Skittles]

95. DEBBIERLUS NAILS IT

yes INDEED

[Jakes Progress]

100. The adm. doesn't like the left? So what's the opposite of left?

Is that who they say they are now?

[Ganja Ninja]

105. Oh yeah and don't be surprised when this whole thing gets shelved ...

we'll be hearing how it was the "far left loons" that were responsible. We killed health-care reform. It was us. Like they were going to fix the system despite all the money going to bluedogs from the health-care lobby. They had us all set up like fat rats and were just about to close the deal but nooooo! We groused and that killed that.

[donco6]

168. You know - I won't even care. This stinks just THAT bad.

So let them blame it on us. I'm used to it anyway - hell, every loss we've ever suffered has been blamed on gays already.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

111. The escalation of a lost war, and the FUBAR hcr bill, have signalled an end to nose holding.

The good old days of "not as bad" and "where are you gonna' go?", as brought to us by the DLC, are over.

[shadesofgray]

113. Great post. And I've learned my lesson about Obama. If he is so disdainful of the left,

then he won't get this leftie's vote again.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

121. He will kiss up to you in 2012, don't worry.

[HuckleB]

125. He's not, but that doesn't stop some from claiming he is.

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/12/howard_dean_has_become_the.php

[GreenPartyVoter]

117. You say it so well

[kurtzapril4]

131. A question

I don't like Rahm at all..Did he really say we should shut the fuck up? I've seen it mentioned several times on DU, but can't find the quote. If he did..what an assh*le.

[donco6]

169. I think that was an unnamed source, but widely credited to him.

So no one knows for sure.

[freddie mertz]

135. Check my new avatar. Howard is my pony.

And woe unto anyone who don't dig that.

[closeupready]

138. Very well-stated.

K&R

[Jamastiene]

139. The left has had NO POWER in this country FOR DECADES now.

Yet, they blame us for everything that ever happens. Perhaps our members of Congre$$ who have $old out to the corporation$ and ignored WE The People can go take a long hard look in the mirror if they want to know who is to blame for the me$$ we are in.

Most of our members of Congre$$ are too busy greedily counting the money in their stock portfolios and blaming progressives to bother.

They know EXACTLY what they are doing when they point their grea$y, bony, shriveled, gnarled fingers at us. It makes people look away long enough for them to get another snoot of corporate cocaine.

The thing is: we see right through that transparent tactic now and we are not going to take the blame any more.

[tbyg52]

155. >>primary your ass in 2012

How 'bout with Dr. Dean?! (I'm sure this has been suggested upthread, but it's my $.02.)

[Goldstein1984]

156. I still vote Democrat, but I was marginalized into registering as an

Independent about ten years ago. I'm proud to be associated with the likes of Bernie Sanders--a Democratic Socialist.

Forgive me for borrowing a great protest shout, but: I'M HERE!....I'M SOCIALIST!....GET USED TO IT!

Not going away; not apologizing; not compromising my principles...

I voted for Obama in 2008. He has three years to abandon Bush/Cheney policies and get my vote in 2012.

The death toll in Afghanistan, though, is going to be sand falling in the hourglass--correcting course won't bring back the dead I will be holding him responsible for.

[FunMe]

159. Obama and the OLIGARCHY he represents needs something to continue to steal our $$$$

Now people need to revolt against these traitors to the US Constitution who have infiltrated OUR government (from both parties!)

Time to revolt and vote out all these CORPORATE WHORES.

If anything this past week has taught Americans more than ever (including those who don't get their news in the internet): Obama is simply working for corporations and OLIGARCHY he represents instead of We The People.

Time to fight back and push them back!

[mddem9850]

162. I completely agree