Okay, here we go. the right wing radio pundits are already using the mandate

[Mari333]

as a talking point.

Forced madated insurance? they are using it , I listened to them today.

Rush was all about it.

The Dems are really fucking themselves.

[babylonsister]

1. So what? They've lied consistently all year. Why should I care now?

People who listen to them aren't going to stop regardless of what they say or don't and what is true or isn't.

[depakid]

4. Because this will resonate

and people perceive that they're not going to get much if anything in return for the imposition-and there won't be any major elements for Dems to hang their persuasive hats on.

Not that it would have been an easy sell with a half-assed and deferred public option.

[babylonsister]

7. Let me tell you about kook-aide drinkers. I met one last

week, and he is my brother (the other one is the same way). He got smashed and started yelling at me how much he hated Olbermann (he'd recently spent time w/my dad) and how Hannity was where it's at. He also divulged he's read all 3 of Coulter's books (but he couldn't remember her name). THEN, he started railing about Kerry and how he lied about his VN experience.
My jaw was on the floor; this guy usually doesn't talk politics (I guess his beer loosened him up). I kept telling him to look it up! Google it!! Nah, facts don't matter. I learned that night that there is no convincing some people
So rushbeckhannity, etc., can spew, and they will swallow whatever is said hook, line, and sinker.
Facts be damned.

[depakid]

8. My family all hails from the south- many from the deep sough- so I get it

(and got my ass out of there- 1st to Oregon and then to Oz).

Bottom line though is that we're not looking (or would be foolish to look) to persuade the kooks- or most any hard core Republican. The people who we ought to be concerned about are ordinary and reasonable (if less than well informed) Americans.

Without a respectable public option, medicare buy in, anti-trust exemption, visible cost control methods, etc. -this is going to be a hard sell (and likely unsalable to most).

[babylonsister]

12. The OP started with the premise that what a r/wer says holds weight.

I'm saying it doesn't because people who listen to them won't own any personal responsibility to inform themselves.

However it's sold, the old standby still applies. We need to shit or get off the pot; it's been going on for too long.

Me, let's start with the bones of something and build on it. If that's the best we can do, let's do it. I don't think we have another chance for at least another decade or more.

[depakid]

14. We ought never to underestimate the power of the echo chamber

particularly when so many people believe their wallets will end up lighter.

I agree- we ought to have shit or got off of the pot- with a PO last summer. That said- the current system is unsustainable, so it wouldn't take a decade for economic reality to set in (though it would set in a lot faster- and be solved a lot quicker if we didn't throw a ton of at health insurers).

[DJ13]

5. That ignores the point

If this bill passes mandates will be forced on people who are already suffering in the midst of a deep recession.

The Democrats might as well just hand over the keys to Congress to the GOP the day after Obama signs it into law.

Its really a stupid thing to do, especially when they've eliminated a lower cost public option.

[timeforpeace]

10. As always. Change the subject, misdirection, false dilemmas.

[DJ13]

11. Tell me how that WONT become a major weapon against our party by the GOP

Try answering the question instead of posting empty bullshit.

[sandnsea]

2. Already? That's been a tp all summer long

And the left has been more than happy to join them.

In fact, most of the complaints republicans are using as talking points either came from the left, or were quickly picked up by the left to attack this bill.

I don't even support the mandates, but I'm not stupid enough to join Republicans in attacking reform when it's being proposed in good faith by sincere Democrats.

[Mari333]

6. Its not reform.

Its a bad bill that needs to be sent into reconciliation and committee and sent back to the house.

Public option, single payer, or medicare extension.

otherwise its a scam.

[sandnsea]

15. Howard Dean didn't think so in 2004

What a bunch of fools.

[Nikki Stone1]

3. Just because enemy has a point once in a while doesn't mean you should change your position

when they take on yours.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

9. Good,

They can fight their own battles with out the support of "whining, backseat" liberals.

[Strelnikov_]

13. Wow. Didn't see that one coming.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=58259#58349

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=58259&mesg_id=58446

[Laelth]

16. I agree (about the party hurting itself). The individual mandate is a terrible idea.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the solution to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.


:dem:

-Laelth