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The most important question of the bill when it comes out of conference:

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:55 PM
Original message
The most important question of the bill when it comes out of conference:
In exchange for dropping the Public Option and Medicare Buy In, Senator Rockfeller was all smiles saying that he got an ammendment that would establish a Medical Loss Ratio at 85 or 90%. This would mean that it would be only 7% off of Medicare's 97%.

So far so good.

But no one is talking about the Medical Loss Ratio anymore. Why not? So I started digging around.

Frankly if it has a high Medical Loss Ratio (that was honestly applied) then it could be even better than a weak Public Option.


In fact the CBO says that it would be a de facto nationalization of health care:




http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/12/14/cbo-90-mlr/

A proposal to require health insurers to provide rebates to their enrollees to the extent that their medical loss ratios are less than 90 percent would effectively force insurers to achieve a high medical loss ratio. Combining this requirement with the other provisions of the PPACA would greatly restrict flexibility related to the sale and purchase of health insurance. In CBO’s view, this further expansion of the federal government’s role in the health insurance market would make such insurance an essentially governmental program, so that all payments related to health insurance policies should be recorded as cash flows in the federal budget.




So why aren't all the Senators crowing about this??




http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/11/16/medical-loss/

Once the bill is enacted, all health insurance plans would be required to spend at least 85 cents of every dollar paid in premiums each year to providing actual health care. If, in a given year, an insurer doesn’t spend that amount on health care, they would have to give their extra profit back to their customers in the form of rebates. <...>

But there’s a twist to all of this. The version of the bill that was passed by the House last weekend includes the provision, but also includes some curious, new “sunset” language. The sunset language states that the new minimum medical loss ratio requirements “shall not apply to health insurance coverage on and after the first date that health insurance coverage is offered through the Health Insurance Exchange.” In other words, in 2013, when most of the bill takes effect, the medical loss ratio language would be null and void. There would be no more profit control, just the market competition that is provided by whatever form of the public option is included in the bill.




The key and most important benefit of the bill, a tough medical loss ratio, expires at the time the bill takes effect.




So in the final bill - does it have a medical loss ratio? does it have a sunset year?

If you pass a bill with 90% medical loss ratio and no sunset then it would actually be a better bill than the House Bill.

The chance of that getting 60 votes in the Senate?
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting and important. k&r for exposure. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. thank you Laelth
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. n/p Happy to kick. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks, I was wondering about the status of the MLR (NT)
NT
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ugggh...it keeps getting worse and worse
So on this issue, we have to hope for reconciliation so we can remove this sunset language?

Ugh.

And to learn today that insurance will be allowed to sell across state lines, effectively starting a race for the bottom to see which state can have the least insurance regulation.

Today's news doesn't seem better for the bill, no matter how many talking points and ridiculous taunts are thrown our way.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. If it is this confusing then it can't be good

Unless they have an agreement from Lieberman to not filibuster the conference bill.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R Thanks for posting..
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. So insurance companies will be able to spend as little as they
want on actual health care, and as much as they want on profit and bonuses. Wonderful. :eyes:

I was under the impression that that limit on MLR was removed a while ago, so I didn't expect it to still exist. But to see that it exists but just won't apply is in some ways even worse.

This one protection could have made this bill worthwhile. No matter what the final bill looked like, if we knew that any in any insurance plan we purchased the money really did pay for health care that would be a worthwhile benefit.

Without this protection we really are just funding corporate profits. This bill gives them permission to find any creative ways they can think of to funnel money away from health care.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. yes I would say that it is the whole ball game

so why aren't they talking about it?
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Why isn't WHO talking about it?
I can understand perfectly well why the insurance companies would be keeping this quiet, at least until after a bill is finally signed.

And I can bet that politicians have been told by lobbyists to keep this quiet too.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Progressive Senators and Congressman


I am begining to wonder.

They don't really seem that upset. Could this be staged? Allow Lieberman his day in the sun in exchange for an agreement that he votes for cloture on the conference report and a vote against the bill?

A lot of very progressive people in the know seem to be taking this very well while we are rupturing our spleens.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm for dismantling the fucking insurance companies.
By force if necessary.

They do NOT provide any real function.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. So, basically, the insurance cos. could offer a bunch of plans AFTER 2013
That don't contain costs at all. But people would be forced to buy them. And those companies could incorporate in states with the most lenient coverage requirements. States with really bad economies like, say, Michigan, could re-write their insurance laws to make themselves very attractive to health insurance companies. The insurance cos. would locate their national headquarters there and sell people in Arizona craptastic federally subsidized policies that would give them "low" premiums but high out-of-pocket costs and a buttload of paperwork between them and actually getting the care they need.

But hey, everyone will be "covered" so why are you liberals making the perfect the enemy of the goood??!?
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. Double ROFL

The notion that the incentive to have a high mlr to avoid rebate is itself wishful. The incentive is to fail to control costs, resulting in a high mlr on a greater cash flow.

But sunsetting before sunrise. That's priceless.

Harkin was pimping the mlr provision the other night. Guess he forgot to mention the sunset.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-17-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well that is my take as well

All of those expensive "experimental" procedures that have been declined would now be approved automatically.


They would rush into production with a mechanical heart so that everyone could get them.


Now the Swiss and Dutch (I think) have a similar system but they control the prices.


If you had a high MLR AND OPM fixed the prices of the plan, then it could be very good.


Again none of that seems remotely likely.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. The thing is...

Where are any controls on the underlying cost of health care.

It sounds like a call to hospitals to go bananas.... "Come on down to Crazy Rahm's claims department. No reimbusement offer refused! We'll pay twice the trade in value of hip replacements in our fiscal year blowout bonanza!"
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. none we get all the political baggage of the mandates and none of the
advantages of the cost control

Which leads me to wonder if there hasn't been an agreement with Lieberman to have his day and then when it comes back from conference he votes for cloture and against the bill.

There is very little outrage among progressive senators and congressman that have devoted their lives to this.

something doesn't add up.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R Good post!
What skanky spiders they are!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks WFE
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why this after the fact bullshit when other countries using private insurance
--just tell the insurers what the basic comprehensive plan must cover and what it will cost? A year is a hell of a long time to wait for a rebate if you are living hand to mouth.
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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for posting this information and your thoughts.
KnR
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Welcome
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-18-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R! nt
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