If you want to want to kill the bill, you should also cancel your private insurance.

[BzaDem]

It is amazing to me how many people who want to kill the bill have generous private plans that they would never think about ditching. For these people, a private plan is fine for them (and probably something that played a large role in their decision about where to work). But when asked to provide the same insurance they have to the uninsured, now that is somehow different and shouldn't be allowed.

People who want to kill the bill should cancel their private insurance now. Not in a month, or in a week, or at the end of their next billing cycle. Now.

[Oregone]

1. I don't have private insurance

Oh my my. What should I do to capitulate to your whims?

[BzaDem]

2. I'm obviously talking to the pepole that do. And there are many. n/t

[pecwae]

6. Sign up for some today,

then cancel it tomorrow so you can be seen as pure.

Funny that those who make such demands get offended when demands are made on the administration.

[AllentownJake]

3. Let it sink

The argument by the DLC shills that this was their only option, is fucking ridiculous.

Oh, and don't worry, I lose my coverage soon enough.

[BzaDem]

4. Why not cancel it now?

If you want to tell the uninsured that they can't have subsidized private insurance, why do you think having private insurance is a good option for yourself? Why can you have it but not them? Even for a little bit of time before you lose your coverage?

[AllentownJake]

5. I have a choice right now

Don't worry that right will soon be taken away.

[readmoreoften]

12. I'm not sure this cat isn't an insurance shill.

Well, I suppose DLC shill/insurance shill are difficult to distinguish these days.

[BzaDem]

15. Of course you aren't. Because anyone who disagrees with you has to be a shill.

:rofl:

[Chan790]

38. Well...you're either a shill or merely a horse's ass.

Frankly, if I were you...I'd prefer to be a shill, at least they're getting paid to be this obsequious.

I find the suggestion that the people who aren't going to be fucked by this bill think those of us who will be should simply take it remarkable. This shit bill which amounts to nothing more than theft from the federal coffers into the pocket of fat insurance executives is actually...shock and awe...worth opposing. It's worth opposing. It has no advantages, it improves nothing. It's a pile of steaming shit delivered to America's doorstep by the same assholes who broke the system and should not be allowed input on how to fix the healthcare system. It's nothing more than a touchy-feely fuck-the-poor initiative that helps nobody...so no I won't be cancelling my insurance to make some point to lame-brained you who does not understand that this bill does not help the uninsured in any way whatsoever.

In fact, it's going to do little more in NY (where I lived until 2 months ago) than force a lot of people who currently receive subsidized care out of that subsidized care...and push a lot of the irregular labor that runs the East Coast entertainment industry (because they're freelancers who pooled together to create an insurance pool that even the current House bill makes illegal.) out of their insurance. If you care so much, why don't you give up your health insurance as support for how the bill you advocate fucks them over and helps nobody. You know what? Forget it. Why don't you just get fucked and die instead.

I'm done playing nice with centrist apologist asswipes...you can't serve man and mammon. You've made your bed...you're all closet Republicans behind a smiling Democrat mask; go roll around with the filth and enjoy your diseased quisling conservatism.

[ima_sinnic]

7. ha ha, you funny --

take that argument to the boneheaded teabaggers--those are the ones that wanted to kill the bill because it was too "socialistic."

or do you think that is DUers' problem with it?

heartily unrecced as one of many idiotic shill posts presuming DUers to have IQs somewhere down around the level of Tiger Woods' golf scores.

oh, and by the way, I am totally uninsured at the age of 63. Take your smart-alecky bullshit elsewhere, because this is a matter of life and death for me.

KILL THE BILL and let us at least die with a couple of dollars left that our families could use in our absence.

[dkf]

8. Well you might as well take it if they are paying most of the bill.

If you don't, its not like they will give you extra pay.

And ironically, the place where I work downgraded the health coverage and gave us only one choice. Most people in this state have the better carrier (My entire family is SHOCKED we are stuck with this carrier and feel sorry for me).

Hawaii has mandated employer based insurance here and we pay just as much as the mainland, so having everyone who works in the pool doesn't do much for costs.

[Meldread]

9. I don't have any health insurance.

And I won't be able to afford the private plans they're going to mandate that I buy, and thus instead I'm going to be fined... for money I don't have.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people who don't have health insurance WANT it they just can't afford it. Rather than mandating people like me to buy something we can't afford, how about lowering the cost so we can actually afford it in the first place.

[BzaDem]

13. Are you kidding me?

The bill spends a HUGE amount of money to help people who make 400% of the poverty level or lower afford insurance. People who make 133% or lower will get insurance free through medicaid. People making 150% will have to pay only 3% of thier income for insurance. People making 300% will have to pay 9.8% of their income (still FAR lower than they pay today).

And on top of that, if the cheapest insurance plan is more than 8% of your income, the mandate doesn't apply to you at all.

If your concern is affordability, this bill is huge in that regard.

[readmoreoften]

21. Most people want health CARE, no one wants health insurance that raises the price every time you get

sick.

I had zero bills last year when I had no health insurance. I get insurance, spend a bunch of money on a check up, the doctor runs a bunch of tests "to rule out cancer" now I'm thousands of dollars in the hole. I want health care. I don't give a good goddamn about the industry that hustles a profit managing and denying that care.

[BzaDem]

27. Healthcare is only provided through insurance in this country

and as unfortunate as it is there won't be the votes to change it in either house of Congress for decades if ever.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

28. what a stunningly ingnorant statement... n/t

[ThePhilosopher04]

10. One currently has a choice...

as to whether or not they wish to purchase private insurance; not to mention most employers cover the bulk of the premiums...that will cease to exist under the current bill. Not to mention mandates are not enforceable to the degree needed to make it work. There will be the "good soldiers" who nicely comply but I guarantee you there will be many who choose not to comply on either on moral or religious grounds or those who simply can't afford it.

[readmoreoften]

11. What a dishonest argument. Thoroughly fallacious...

"It is amazing to me how many people who want to kill the bill have generous private plans that they would never think about ditching."

Really, how many people do you know? What is the data on this unwarranted generalization you've come up with?

"generous" private plans

Really, is generosity an appropriate term? Not only is it question-begging, it is disturbing in its attitude towards insurers. GENEROUS? First of all, it's a service that is bought, not an act of grace. Second, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "generous" insurance plan. Most of them cover little and raise their rates when they cover anything at all.

But when asked to provide the same insurance they have to the uninsured,

Who are these imaginary people you've conjured? And by the way those with insurance are not providing anything to the uninsured. The uninsured will be gauged by your "generous" insurers to pay for a product that isn't even health care itself.

And your entire post is a strawman. But what does your side have except strawmen? If you really gave a damn about the uninsured you'd be fighting for real reform. And I say this as someone with an extremely tenuous relationship to a number of rather crappy health insurance products. And one who was uninsured as recently as last year.

[BzaDem]

14. "And one who was uninsured as recently as last year."

So you admit you have health insurance now, but don't want to extend that same insurance to 30 million uninsured people. YOU are one of the people I am talking to. I am not conjuring anyone out of thin air. I know many people in person and have seen many others here.

If your plan isn't generous, get rid of it. After all, you say it isn't even healthcare itself. So you should have no problem ditching it TODAY. You don't want the uninsured to have access to it. So why should you?

My guess is you won't get rid of it. Because you actually know you do benefit from it, JUST like the uninsured will if they have access to it. If you didn't benefit from it, you would ditch it.

[ima_sinnic]

16. wow, you don't give up

I've got you on my watch list, along with several of your pals. The source of the bad odor around here is getting easier and easier to pinpoint now.

[BzaDem]

17. What makes you think I care about your "watch list?"

Are you in 3rd grade? Keeping lists? Why would you think anyone would care?

I am going to continue to post how I feel about this bill and your feelings about that are not of much concern to me or my family (who would tremendously benefit from this bill).

[readmoreoften]

19. Oh I bet you'll benefit from this bill. It's pretty clear who you work for...

one of these "generous" insurers.

If you really were desperate, you'd support single payer or PO. But you're not. So it's COMPLETELY CLEAR who you represent. COMPLETELY CLEAR.

[BzaDem]

22. You are a tool. I support BOTH single payer AND a PO.

I also know that both are not going to pass Congress, and despite that I want to help 30 million people so fewer die and go bankrupt. I would vote for both of them (single payer or a PO) were I a Senator.

[ima_sinnic]

26. obviously YOU don't care--it's a hobby of mine to see how well I can sift out polluters

if your family "would tremendously benefit from this bill," you must be wealthy and can buy insurance anyway. what's stopping you now?

[readmoreoften]

18. Seriously. How dare you? What is this generous plan of which you speak?

It's a shitty plan that I don't use, that I'll probably lose next month anyway, and when I tried to use it I was gauged more money than I will be able to pay off in a year. I don't pay for this insurance--and if I had to, I wouldn't because I couldn't afford it and its NOT WORTH IT. The insurance I have is UNUSABLE and I WOULD NOT PAY FOR IT.

What a scumbag you are. Do you realize that there are people suffering from SERIOUS FINANCIAL AND MEDICAL PROBLEMS that you're baiting. That there are people who have been SERIOUSLY DESTROYED BY THEIR INSURERS ON THIS SITE.

Where is this GENEROUS PLAN of which you speak? I would gladly extend any benefit to anyone IF IT WERE FREE. But I'm not making poor people pay their mortgage money on an insurance product that gauges them. WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

[BzaDem]

20. If someone who was seriously destroyed by their insurers

wants to take their anger out on the 30 MILLION PEOPLE by KILLING a bill that will BAN practices that seriously destroyed them in the first place and provide HUGE affordability assistance to those who can't afford it, I am not going to agree with such a person one bit. What part of that do you not understand.

[readmoreoften]

23. You're either a shill or you're a fool.

THIS IS A BOON FOR NO ONE BUT THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY. IT'S A SCAM. IT. WON'T. WORK. IT. IS. GARBAGE.

I'm done with you. Good luck.

[BzaDem]

24. Same to you. n/t

[eridani]

25. If it comes to a choice between paying for ongoing care and ditching my insurance

--I will ditch the insurance. The "reform" would make me a criminal for doing that.

[TexasObserver]

dupe

[TexasObserver]

29. Your premise is faulty

Your premise is faulty, which is: the bill is going to provide the same insurance to the uninsured as is provided by private health coverage.

The people here attacking the bill are doing so because it doesn't do enough, not because it does too much. Your argument is nothing but a fraud based upon a straw man you've constructed with misinformation.

[BzaDem]

31. So you are saying instead of providing some assistance, we should provide no assistance?

I mean, the bill does do quite a bit. Everyone 133% at poverty gets Medicaid, people at 150% poverty pay 3% of their income at most for insurance, people at 300%-400% of poverty pay 9.8% of their income for insurance at most. The plan is a plan that provides 70-80% actuarial value (depending on the bill that passes) and mandates that many things be covered. Not to mention that these apply to anyone, even if they have a pre-existing condition.

You might argue that this is not enough, and you might have a very good point there. But you would seriously say NO to all of this if that's the best we can get enacted through the Senate?

[Sapphocrat]

36. The jig, as they say, is up.

To some of us, taking 9.8% of our income means the difference between 1) remaining uninsured and continuing to live indoors and eat food, and 2) having insurance and living on the street and dumpster-diving.

You know absolutely nothing about the real-life consequences upon which you attempt, ever so desperately, to establish your authority. I must, however, admire your tenacity in continuing to yammer on no matter how deeply you undermine that "authority" with each new post.

Frankly, I am sick to death of seeing your name pop up in thread after thread, day after day, attached to no contribution to the discussion whatsoever, save for the futile defense of your corporate masters.

If you ever had any motive other than shilling for the insurance industry -- oh, say, something like, actually giving a flying fuck about the Democratic Party, where were you all of last year? You've had a DU account since February, 2008 -- and yet there was nary a peep out of you until early this year, when the rumblings about single-payer began in earnest.

If you're not a shill, you are the epitome of a one-issue "voter." I think a better username for you would have been Johnny One-Note.

For the record: I have been uninsured for nine years, for one reason and one reason only: I cannot afford health insurance. I want the bill killed. Murdered. Put out of its misery.

Any questions?

Better yet: Any answers?

How about starting with this one: Which insurance company do you work for?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. +1000

:applause:

[TexasObserver]

48. That's what she said!

Thanks for saving me the trouble!

[sendero]

39. No chump....

... we're saying we don't want to pay $1000 for $500 worth of care and $500 worth of insurance/pharma wastage.

If this is actually the best we can get now (and it only is because Obama let us down) then we'd rather wait.

The entire system will collapse of its own weight in a few years, and Americans will demand and get real reform.

[fasttense]

30. Funny, very, very funny.

You must know that once this bill passes, you wont be able to cancel your insurance without a tax, fine or imprisonment.

You are such a comedian, making your point by asking people to do something they wont be able (legally) to do once the bill is passed.

:rofl:

[PA Democrat]

32. Ridiculous argument. The majority who are uninsured are not going to be "PROVIDED"

with a "generous private plan" but will instead be FORCED to buy an overpriced, far-from-generous plan.

You really do need a costume to go with all of your mindless cheer leading activity.

[quaker bill]

33. You have a point

it is relatively easy for folks with no "skin in the game" to trash the bill. I for one have more or less no skin in this game. If the bill passes, my insurance may be slightly improved, but it may cost more. However, I am more of a mind with Nate Silver. It may be a very long time before 100 billion dollars in healthcare subsidies for the poor is on the table again. I say pass the bill. I am also with Dean when he says hit it again and again until we get it right.

[Jamastiene]

34. WTF are you? The fucking Energizer Bunny of insurance salesmen?

Get off my lawn!

[Johnny ramone]

43. I love your sig-line.

:toast:

[Jamastiene]

46. Thank you.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

Gabba gabba hey!

[G_j]

35. I'm 58 w/ NO Ins.

Kill the bill

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

41. Ditto!

[mmonk]

37. I wish I could. IT SUCKS. But I have no choice in this so called "land of the free".

It will continue to increase year by year until I can't afford it.

[Vinca]

42. Private insurance is nothing but a memory for some of us . . .

and not a fond one. In any case, the point of this exercise is health CARE, not health insurance. Huge difference. We should, like our neighbor to the north, fund health care with taxes and issue each and every citizen a card to access it. By the way . . . did you know Canada has a budget in surplus?

[asdjrocky]

44. You win the dumbest argument of the day, and it's early.

Keep it up, you could be the first to win First Place and Second Place in one day.

I have faith in ya buddy.

[calico1]

45. You sound like a good Republican n/t

[Tailormyst]

47. Spin spin spin spin spin spin spin !

I have no insurance and your spin is tired, worn out and worthless.

[laughingliberal]

49. You know, if I still had it, I would

As it is, I have been opposing this bill even though, until Nelson's recent bombshell, it would have provided me with access to Medicaid. I have nothing now and am willing to continue on without it as I don't believe a bill which mandates people buy insurance they can't afford now is helping anything. If they can't afford it now, they won't afford it after the bill passed. Only difference for that class is a fine for not spending money they don't have.