We are arguing the wrong argument

[RC]

What we should be discussing is what other countries have done, are doing and what works, what doesn't and how well in all the other different countries that actually do have real health care for all their citizens.

Instead what do we have? We are squabbling over a bogus solution. The real solution was never on the table in the first place. When it was pointed out to the people 'working' on health care reform, the pointers were arrested.

This so-called bill was written by the health insurance industry and drug companies and the bribed, and otherwise bought off Representative and Senators in our Congress. Very little of this health care debate has to do with actually fixing what is wrong with the Health insurance and health care in this country. It is about keeping the health insurance companies in their parasitic ways.

[liberal N proud]

1. Why don't we talk about what works in other countries?

First and foremost we don't have a media that will take that fight, they rather promote the negative and show the teabaggers protesting.

In a nutshell, we (the left) have not been able to frame the discussion on Health Care. The money people have bought the ability to frame the discussion and are only going to show the negatives in an effort to keep the status quo of ever increasing prices.

[lostnfound]

6. +1. Concise. "The money people have bought the ability to frame the discussion"

They attempted to do the same thing throughout our country's history, with some success (framing discussions on takeovers of the Phillipines or Guatemala or Haiti or whoever in ways that would get the people to go along with it) but their ability to frame it today is unmitigated. I won't say that we have no skeptical, literate public..but for some reason the person-to-person dialog is broken. Maybe media diversity is a big part of the problem. Maybe the establishment of "fixed patterns of reaction to authority" through our wall-to-wall supervised childhood where little time is left to one's own imagination. Or that we adults aren't really..adults...anymore.

[Catshrink]

2. But don't you know America is special

or don't you believe in Amurikan exceptionalism? We don't want a socialist-commie-fascist-Nazi program here. We'll do it the American way. All praises be to our corporate masters.

Just to be sure --> :sarcasm:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

3. I have thought this for a long time and agree with you.

Most Americans just don't realize how bad we have it compared to other countries.

I wish that Move-on or Dean's organization would run simple little ads that have a happy Canadian saying, I paid 1200 dollars last year for my whole families healthcare and that included EVERYTHING, even drugs.Oh, and I had knee surgery, my wife had a baby, and my son broke his arm. We waited no longer for any care than you do. But we have a lot more money in our pockets at the end of the day. Eh? When are you going to do something REAL with your healthcare.

[Kind of Blue]

5. Now that's a great idea! n/t

[eridani]

4. What other countries do is DICTATE terms to insurers, if they exist.

The government might own the system like a public utility. Or it might be the sole payer of the bills for private entities delivering care. Or it may tell private insurers exactly what minimum basic coverage must be and how much it must cost. One way or another, the government CONTROLS. Our government refuses to.

I just can't believe that actual non-officeholding Democrats can buy some bullshit about how very much easier it will be for the government to assert that control AFTER they pay the blackmail fee to those who kill and bankrupt people for profit.

[RC]

8. "...those who kill and bankrupt people for profit."

Excellent phrase. I'm gonna steal it, if you don't mind.

[eridani]

9. Go for it. And for those who think that is too over the top--

--give me another phrase to describe people who pay bonuses to employees to deny claims.

[Laelth]

7. Amen! This bill needs to go down in flames. It's worse than doing nothing.

:dem:

-Laelth