WH to Left: 'Let’s realize how far we’ve come, and how close we are to making history.'

[BurtWorm]

“People need to put this in perspective,” Dan Pfeiffer, Mr. Obama’s communications director, said in an interview on Thursday. “Two years ago, the Democratic Party would have done anything for the opportunity to pass a health care reform like this. Let’s realize how far we’ve come, and how close we are to making history.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/health/policy/18liberals.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


This could be history all right: the Democrats' Waterloo. If this passes without even a public option, it's going to be less and less possible for progressives to back Democrats in power.

The White House should be very careful about what it's doing here. They've been watching the middle and the right and taking the left for granted. But after eight years of Bush, the left is not going to put up with shit any longer.

[babylonsister]

1. I agree with the WH, so sue me. nt

[dkf]

9. I think you are buying a pig in a poke and it will cause more outrage

than anything else.

If it passes, when everyone looks at their health care premium co pays and other expenses, it will be Obama's fault they have to pay this. They will be mandated to do so. It wasn't their choice.

[BurtWorm]

12. Read the Times article I linked to, babylonsister.

I'm with the progressives like Wiener and Sanders who feel we've been led on. This is not health care reform. They're trying to fix the broken structure to shore up the corrupt private insurance industry. That's not reform! We were promised Big Change, change we can believe in. We're getting chump change.

[babylonsister]

22. Hey, I know it's no great bill. I get that. But even Weiner and

maybe even Sanders will be voting for it; it's what we have at the moment. If nothing is passed this year, it won't happen, period. If there's a base in place, it can be improved on.

[BurtWorm]

32. If the WH feels threatened by the left, maybe they'll be scared into making

real history, the kind of history we can actually be proud of. Weiner said it best: “Some of us have compromised our compromised compromise. We need the president to stand up for the values our party shares.”

[PassingFair]

33. Link please.

Where do they categorically state that they
will vote for this bill as is?

[babylonsister]

41. I said Sanders was on the fence, but here...

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/18/weiner-sanders-senate-bill/

[PassingFair]

88. Funny, Weiner wasn't and is not a member of the Progressive Caucus....

He used to work for Schumer....

[Zodiak]

99. Schumer is a big ally of the DLC

Gives speeches at their meetings and takes money from them to go on trips.

[GreenPartyVoter]

91. It can be improved on. The question is will it, which is what the problem is here. Those of us

who are upset with the crappy parts of this bill are worried that it will not be revisited in the near future, and that the bad will turn out to outweigh the good that is in it.

If I break my arm I suppose I could put it in a makeshift sling with a couple of sticks on either side of it and call it a good starting point for treatment. But if I stop there then my arm will heal up around the break and might possibly be disabled for life depending on the type of break I had. I could revisit the problem in another 10 years or so, but by that time the doctors may look at it and say, "Well, this is a really bad situation that's going to take a surgery or two and a re-breaking of your arm. But even then we can't make any promises that this will work."

[Zodiak]

98. like NAFTA has been improved?

We've had these kinds of promises before, but when the bill is a corporate giveaway, suddenly "other business" takes precedence over fixing the corporate bill.

It's a pretty thin promise with no sign of willingness to honor it.

I am so beyond trusting the promises the Democratic party makes.

[cilla4progress]

23. Here's where we part ways, bs

I'm of the Howard Dean mindset -- not only is there no public option in this piece of crap, but much of the rest of it is worse than we have now!

[AllentownJake]

25. You agree with them always

So it isn't a surprise

[PassingFair]

36. She didn't always.....

Something happened.

[BurtWorm]

63. People are entitled to disagree, of course.

Krugman agrees with babylonsister on this, for example. I think they're both wrong, but they could be a lot more wrong. That's one of the tricky things about being a Democrat/lefty/progressive in America. We're a nuanced group, more concerned about getting something right and doing justice to the truth than about partisan purity, which is what makes us easier to take for granted than the wing-nut base.

[babylonsister]

78. I shudder to think what 'ignored' said, so the function is working, and

I am apparently ignoring the right person! :D

[BurtWorm]

85. I guess so!

One week you're getting Appreciation Threads, next week you're a teabagger!

:crazy:

[Hatchling]

123. You know,"ignored" has a lot of good things to say.

Maybe not things you'd necessarily like to hear on health reform. But if you look at posts on other topics he posts you might find some valuable information. Just sayin'.

Personally I only put people on ignore for just a day or two, when they piss me off so I can calm down and not react negatively when I just see their name. The I let them out.

[natrat]

69. yea critical thought not a strong point with that one

[Hatchling]

120. I have to disagree here.

On the health care reform she does appear to be carrying water for the DLC, but on any other subject she has always been a fierce and articulate advocate for Democratic ideals.

I'll click on her posts if the topic is any thing other than defending the indefensible positions this current administration has taken.

[treestar]

48. I agree, they are reasonable and dealing with reality, the left is not.

This foot stomping is really stupid - it is counter to their own interests. And their tone is likely to drive more people further to the right/center.

[BurtWorm]

66. Obama's failure to stomp his foot, as you say, is driving me further to the left.

I'm clearly not alone.

We're always so concerned with how our anger is affected the center. Fuck the center. Maybe the center should be a little scared of our anger, which is righteous in most cases.

[Zodiak]

101. The polls are against you....Americans 59% do not want this bill without the PO

So how the heck will it drive people to the right?

and why would anyone listen to someone who can only say "my side are the adults"?...that is itself a very childish argument to level.

Instead of making stupid accusations about the other side in the absence of a real argument, how about actually talking about the issues for once?

It'll save bandwidth, and save you having someone like me point out your knee-jerkedness and mindless talking point spewage on a regular basis.

[DFW]

119. I hope you're right, but there will have to be a few rabbits in that hat

Some potent magic will be needed during reconciliation to make this palatable.

I'm not saying it can't yet be done, but there needs to be some action behind the scenes to bring this bill back to life.

[Tailormyst]

2. This Leftie to WH: Take your lying, spinning propaganda and shove it

The only history you are making is the history that will lament how a president with such promise turned out to be such a tool.

[Renew Deal]

7. Are they wrong?

You would have been begging for these reforms just two years ago.

[eridani]

18. LIke hell I would

I was willing to compromoise single payer to get a decent public option, but most worthwhile aspects of this bill have been stripped. The ones that remaain don't even need any extra legislation, like Medicaid expansion.

[Tailormyst]

26. No- not these reforms.

Not this give-away to the thieving insurance companies.

[Raineyb]

37. Yes they are.

I have never begged to be forced by law to by a product from a rapacious industry at obscenely inflated prices with no cost controls under threat of fines and/or jail.

Romney care is bad in Massachusetts why the hell would I want it for the rest of the country?

[shadesofgray]

108. +100000000000000000

[DrDan]

3. "could you please bend over once more . . . "

[Mari333]

8. +100000

[Laelth]

4. I have no interest in making BAD history.

Invading Iraq was historic. It was still a bad idea. So is the ill that's currently being considered in Congress.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the solution to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Renew Deal]

5. The "left" is very scary

With all their tantruming on blogs and such

[eridani]

20. Mass murdering insurance shitstains cause a lot more actual damage n/t

[Tailormyst]

29. "tantruming"

The left was out there knocking on doors, making calls, raising money for your heart-throb in the WH. Good luck in the future, it's all on you now.

[Renew Deal]

31. Sorry, but did you vote for Obama?

Were you knocking on doors, making calls, and raising money?

[Tailormyst]

35. Yes I did, and yes I did

My time and effort will now go only to progressive candidates and only to candidates who also walk the walk.

[Renew Deal]

44. Why don't you run for office?

Since you obviously agree with all your positions and can accomplish anything you choose.

[dgibby]

49. Why don't you? n/t

[Tailormyst]

54. She just has no arguement left

It's the typical BS response of the sheep when they get backed into a corner.

[Renew Deal]

68. Ahh, yes the sheep.

Were you one of them when you worked so hard for Obama? You must be dissapointed when you got exactly what you voted for. BAAAAAAAH!

[Tailormyst]

71. Yes- you are behaving like a sheep when you make posts like this.

You have nothing left.

[Renew Deal]

73. Keep typing nasty messages on the internet,

We need more revolutionaries like you.

[Tailormyst]

75. Oh the irony !!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet you are so far gone you don't even see how ironic your posts are.

[Tailormyst]

53. Is that the best you got?

Run along little lamb.

[Renew Deal]

67. Exactly

You're too busy arguing on the internet to actually accomplish anything.

[Tailormyst]

74. Ahhh the irony...........

You are an amusing little lamb.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hatchling]

122. Welcome to DU!

I like your name, it's cool.

[freddie mertz]

83. And what are YOU doing? Arguing on the internet.

Hold up the mirror.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. Well, we damn well better be scary, because Obama is NOT getting

re-elected without us.

[treestar]

51. Yeah, we're so scared

:scared:

Losing these people would be a good thing. Like losing the nutcases on the far right would be for Repukes.

[MessiahRp]

57. LMAO

Good luck winning a single election without the liberals. It's the left that is the foot soldiers of the party. Without us or our grass roots, you're fucked.

But good luck with your Center-Right party and the crushing election losses they will suffer.

Rp

[dgibby]

62. Well said! n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

95. The Democratic party losing all the DEMOCRATS would be a good thing??

God damn you Rahmbots need to lay off the brown acid :crazy:

[Hatchling]

121. I call it "holding his feet to the fire".

Isn't that what Obama asked of us? Well now that we are doing that, we get called the "fringe left" and told to STFU by this administration. Screw that.

This is so much like getting raped, reporting it and then being told we shouldn't have worn that dress in that neighborhood at that time of night,so just STFU: it's our own fault.

[rudy23]

6. What kind of history seems to be irrelevant. This is Orwellian double-speak that Rove would be

proud of. We're making HISTORY, can't you see? Years from now, people will celebrate the date we allowed insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines while staying headquartered in the state with the loosest regulations!

[deminks]

14. Yup, the date we deregulated health insurance companies among other things.

Will go down with the date we repealed the Glass-Steagall act.

[optimator]

10. the patriot act was historical

making history doesn't mean its good.

[still_one]

11. It is always the "left" that is causing problems, huh? That is what I am hearing from surrogates

The so-called "left", or single payer group was excluded from the table when the healthcare talks started. Why was that?

There is a lot of similarity to the tactics used by the last administration, "fear"

only this time they are using it on their base

[eridani]

13. Going backwards is "making history"?

Sorry, but I don't intend to back a bill that makes me a second class citizen.

[Tim01]

15. Historical moment for corporations. nt

[NightWatcher]

16. Left to WH: "Let's realize that we are not feeling the Hope and Change we were promised"

The repukes are determined to use the healthcare debate to cripple your political capital and see that you are seen as a failure and lose the majority of support in Congress in 2010 and the White House in 2012.

Yet you continue to capitulate to the same repukes and repuke-lites who refuse to vote for any single bill that the Democrats put through.
Stimulus Bill: After you give in to their demands, not a single fucking puke votes for it.
House version of the 636 Billion War Spending Bill: not a single fucking puke voted for it in the House.
"Healthcare Reform": Do we really even need to go there?

And then there is DOMA, DADT..............

You better make friends with the republicans because more and more Democrats (especially the Progressive Wing) aren't feeling so thrilled with what you are doing and may keep our support and efforts at home in 2010 and 2012.

[HereSince1628]

17. I love it when aparatchiks of the DLC tell the left to suck it up.

Daniel Pfeiffer (born December 24, 1975, Wilmington, Delaware)<1> is Assistant to the President of the United States and the White House Communications Director.<2> He was previously a member of Obama's presidential transition team.<1>

In 2000, he was a spokesperson for Vice-President Al Gore. He has since worked for Senators Tim Johnson (U.S. Senator), Tom Daschle, and Evan Bayh, and was communications director for the Obama campaign.

Pfeiffer was formerly a spokesman for Senator Evan Bayh.<3> He graduated magna cum laude from Georgetown University.

In July 16, 2006, Pfeiffer married Sarah Feinberg, a senior adviser and spokeswoman for Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel<4>.

[liberal_at_heart]

19. a win just for the sake of a win is not a win

especially when it is the insurance companies who really win.

[H2O Man]

21. Recommended.

We make "history" every minute of every day. Some of those minutes will be remembered for making progress, some for blowing opportunities, and many minutes are simply wasted. Those in Washington, including in the White House, need to appreciate that we recognize these distinctions.

[jgraz]

24. I think you might have heard that wrong

What they really said: "Let's realize we think you're dumb, but if this bill fails, we're history."

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. Of course, the way it's set up now, we're history whether the bill fails

or passes.

If it fails, we won't be able to get a new healthcare bill for at least 8 years.

If it passes, we're fucked.

Once again, the centrists dems have maneuvered us into a lose/lose situation.

[dgibby]

52. DUzy! n/t

[newtothegame]

27. What isour frickin obsession with making history with this administration?

We spend more time focusing on collector's plates and t-shirts than getting any progressive legislation passed.

[dgibby]

28. From now on, these are the folks who I'm supporting:

http://www.actblue.com/

http://pdamerica.org/

and Howard Dean's organization:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

In the event there is no progressive Dem running against a Republican, then I'll support a 3rd party canditate.

[Tailormyst]

30. Yup- PDA gets my support from now on.

[Renew Deal]

47. You would think that people here have learned about helpng republicans win after the Nader fiasco

I guess you miss the good old days.

[dgibby]

55. How is supporting progressive Deomocrats helping Republicans win?n/t

[ShortnFiery]

70. Excellent Suggestions. I'm with you!

:-) :toast:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Funny how the left is suddenly worthy of notice now that's it's resisting this FUBAR bill.

Whereas during the process we were ignored while they were selling out to the right.

[jgraz]

38. There's a lesson there

Killing this bill would not only save us from craptacular legislation, it will teach Rahm he ignores the left at his peril.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. I think they inadvertantly started a fire on the left and don't know to put it out.

The left has been smoldering for a long time and holding it's nose but with the escalation and the HRC it's burst into flames.

Now they're simultaneously trying to marginalize us as irrelevant while trying to portray us dangerous.

Sort of like pissing on the fire or throwing kerosene on it.

The result is that the reliable "where are you going to go if not the Democrats?" votes are not so reliable any more.

About time.

[Jamastiene]

116. When a Republican is in office, we got nothing.

When a Democrat is in office, we got nothing.

Either way, we got nothing.

But...
when we got nothing, we got nothing to lose.

"where are you going to go if not the Democrats?"
Wherever the hell we want to go. That's where. We are free.

[Hatchling]

125. Yup. Janis said it for us.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.
And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,
You know feeling good was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.

[charlie]

46. Hah

DLCers would rather burn the White House down than cede leftward. Wait until the midterm losses, Rahm's first instinct will be to "triangulate".

[amborin]

42. bad history!

[kestrel91316]

45. If all we get is a mandate, I'm leaving the Dems and joining the Socialists.

[QC]

50. Because it's better to make history than to make good policy.

That's a recurring issue with this White House.

[pecwae]

114. Ssshhhh! We're supposed

to be grateful to be thrown less than crumbs. Show anything less than gratitude and you risk 'labeling'.

[QC]

118. Oh well, I have stood accused of ponilessness more than once. n/t

[Lorien]

56. The mandates would be the end of the Democratic party. Single payer

would have ensured a Democratic Majority for decades. It's like they WANT to be driven out of office...and into some cushy lobbying jobs. :grr:

[joeybee12]

58. If the Wh didn't shit on everything progressive prior to the public option

...some of us could stomach the bill as is and hope for "corrections" int he future...it's not the public option, it's because it's the last straw.

[neverforget]

59. With these majorities in Congress, this is the best they can do? Mediocrity?

Mediocrity is being generous too. :argh: :banghead:

[gratuitous]

60. Nope

That's not the half-assed job that I and millions of other Americans sent you to do. We gave you a thundering mandate for change. I'm no fan of letting the good be the mortal enemy of the perfect, but I refuse to settle for the hideous in place of the eminently achievable.

[debbierlus]

61. Infuriating, insulting, and DISHONEST

Selling out to the corporations, betraying your base, and acting as right wing Republicans in all legislative matters is not progress. It is betrayal.

Stand with the White House and stand for NOTHING.

Wait, that's not true. Stand for screwing the people in the name of corporate profit.

Gross.

[natrat]

64. these are really bad people, the mid terms will hand them exactly what they want

[ShortnFiery]

65. Yes, when middle-class America is FULLY GUTTED by insurance mandates and slips into poverty ...

we will have fully morphed into political FASCISM.

Yea, HISTORY is right. :nuke:

[laughingliberal]

72. Oh, It'll make history, all right

This will see to it future generations refer to the time when America had a strong middle class and a working class that could raise their families and strive to move up as history. As in that was then and this is now.

[subterranean]

76. Obama campaigned on a public option and no mandates.

Now we're getting mandates and no public option. It's no wonder some people feel betrayed.

[wackywaggin]

77. Mandate all Senators and Congresspersons to be on this plan

If it is great for the American people it is good enough for all federal, state ,and local public employees.

[Skittles]

79. sit down, children, be quiet and just AGREE with us

behave yourselves!!!

[Tailormyst]

80. I know, right?

The problem is to much of the population is looking at them like a child looks to an adult. It's disturbing.

[dgibby]

100. Did you hear Tweety last night?

I wanted to reach through the tv and slap the shit out of him until I realized it was a job that would take the rest of my life to accomplish!

We're not "real" Democrats, just netroot whiners who don't ever do anything. He's such a pompous,sycophantic ass and stupid to boot.:grr:

[L0oniX]

81. Left to the WH ...you're fucked.

[Uncle Joe]

82. I agree with your political analysis, BurtWorm.

Should the Democrats pass mandated purchasing of for profit "health" insurance, the Republicans will claim Obama went back on his pledge to not pass a tax increase on those making less than 200-250K.

The Republicans will get a double win because so many people have been hurt by this economy while having near stagnant wages over the past decade or two, having a "tax increase" on top of that benefiting such a malignant industry; having nothing to do with actual health care and which is naturally aligned to the corporate supremacist Republican Party will cost the Democratic Party heavily in 2010 and I believe ultimately 2012 as well.

I hate to be cynical but maybe this was the plan all along, an endless game of "good cop" "bad cop" so long as the corporations dominate over the people.

I can't believe the Democrats in power have grown tired of governing so quickly as to swallow a poison pill like this one!:shrug:

One last thing the article cites former President Clinton stating to pass the bill because opportunities like this one don't come along often, I believe passing a mandated purchasing of greed based private for profit "health" insurance while ignoring the most logical, functional, effective and moral solution to the health care crisis will insure another opportunity doesn't come along for a much longer period of time. The people will lose trust in the Democratic Party and the corporate media will make sure the teabaggers point of view is vindicated.

Thanks for the thread.

[JVS]

84. We used to be against corporate welfare, that's how far we've come.

We're about to enter the seventh decade of having a shit health care system compared to Europe (and not just Western Europe, but broke ass commie Eastern Europe too), this is the history we are making.

[leeroysphitz]

86. Left to WH: 'Let’s realize how far we have to go, and how far we are from acheiving true reform .

[chill_wind]

87. Capuano to fellow Dems: "You're screwed."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x59127

[Solly Mack]

89. snicker

[blueworld]

90. If there can't be a public option, get rid of the mandate

I've repeated until I'm blue in the face that insurance companies only exist to create risk pools & charge accordingly. That's all their actuaries DO all day long. They cannot deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions, they cannot cancel policyholders because of benefits paid out, but as private insurers they CAN & WILL cancel policies with unpaid premiums. Initially, there will be subsidies, but as they raise premiums for the RISK POOLS, people will lose their insurance anyway & be fined in the bargain! Can this "loophole" be any PLAINER?????

I respect Prof. Krugman & Babylonsister highly and simply cannot understand how they think these two issues are better than nothing.

If insurance companies were forced to cover everyone that would be universal coverage - which none of these bills provide! All people won't be covered, only MORE people will be covered, and Lord knows for how long or at what personal cost!

Prof. Krugman is getting testy because the "left" is criticizing his logic. Private insurers by their very definition will isolate, label and CHARGE based on risk pools. Their buying power can reduce certain expenses but their primary purpose is to share money among "risk groups"! That's all they do - that's all they exist for - otherwise we could pay our own bills individually! High risk pools will be charged MORE. The CHARGES will result in bankruptcies & lapsed policies. Can it be any plainer????

[proud patriot]

92. while I support Dean I also have faith in the President

dicey times

[hvn_nbr_2]

93. Left to WH: Tell that to Lieberman and Nelson. nt

[GOTV]

94. "Let's realize how far we've come" back from reform to the status quo

[bvar22]

96. Historic is right.

The "Democrats" are about to transfer an Historic amount of Public Money into the pockets of For Profit private Corporations (One Trillion Dollars).

The "Democrats" are about to FORCE every American to BUY an INVISIBLE product from For Profit Corporations who manufacture NOTHING and produce NO wealth.
THAT is pretty "historic".

The "Democrats" are about to begin the destruction of Medicare ("Entitle Reform") by defunding Medicare by $500 BILLION Dollars.
THAT is an "Historic" landmark.

The Republicans could have NEVER gotten away with a scam like this.

[laughingliberal]

97. Yes, a very historic transfer of money from the little guys to the top

Not new but this is the first time they've done it by requiring us to send the checks directly to the top 1%. Until now, it was done by tax policy and legalized theft by those with control of our meager assets. Now, they've cut out the middle man.

[kenny blankenship]

102. The most corporatist bill to ever slither from the Potomac slime -that's your historical achievement

http://salon.com/news/healthcare_reform/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2009/12/18/corporatism

One finds this in far more than just economic policy, and it's about more than just letting corporations do what they want. It's about affirmatively harnessing government power in order to benefit and strengthen those corporate interests and even merging government and the private sector. In the intelligence and surveillance realms, for instance, the line between government agencies and private corporations barely exists. Military policy is carried out almost as much by private contractors as by our state's armed forces. Corporate executives and lobbyists can shuffle between the public and private sectors so seamlessly because the divisions have been so eroded. Our laws are written not by elected representatives but, literally, by the largest and richest corporations. At the level of the most concentrated power, large corporate interests and government actions are basically inseparable.

The health care bill is one of the most flagrant advancements of this corporatism yet, as it bizarrely forces millions of people to buy extremely inadequate products from the private health insurance industry -- regardless of whether they want it or, worse, whether they can afford it (even with some subsidies). In other words, it uses the power of government, the force of law, to give the greatest gift imaginable to this industry -- tens of millions of coerced customers, many of whom will be truly burdened by having to turn their money over to these corporations -- and is thus a truly extreme advancement of this corporatist model.

Even if one grants the arguments made by proponents of the health care bill about increased coverage, what the bill does is reinforces and bolsters a radically corrupt and flawed insurance model and and an even more corrupt and destructive model of "governing." It is a major step forward for the corporatist model, even a new innovation in propping it up.

[WT Fuheck]

103. We've come a long way alright.

All the way from single-payer to a strong public options, to a weak public option, to no public option, to a corporate giveaway that would have made Ronald Reagan blush.

[branders seine]

127. Ain't it the truth?

[Generator]

104. They just keep saying the same shit over and over

if it's not true and we know it, it doesn't work. What about that don't they get?

30 more million that have health care? No, 30 more million that are forced to buy insurance. Health insurance is not the same as health care. Nice Orwellian touch there.

No pre-existing conditions? YEP, but only if you can afford to pay twice or three times as much.

Sorry but the crazy cowboy-Dean already got to us.

The admin just looks like whinny pathetic fools now.

[democracy1st]

113. +1 idiots don't even realize the so called left is their base

[laughingliberal]

105. A lot of our leaders in the past made history. I'm thinking Hoover.

But that's kind of unfair. Hoover let the people tank by inaction. Now, they're actively pushing to get more of our money into the hands of the wealthy. And, in a time when the disparity is worse than 1929.

[ThePhilosopher04]

106. Perhaps it's the circular motion...

that has Mr. Pfeiffer confused. One can travel, ad infinitum, in a circle...theoretically speaking.

[Odin2005]

109. Make history by making us serfs of the insurance industry, Mr. President.

MANDATES ARE FASCISM!

I voted for you, Barack. I worked my ass off for you, Barack. Now you have shoved a knife in my back!

[Wardoc]

111. These assholes need to realize that shit is not chocolate ice cream, despite a similar appearance!

A "health care bill" that as its major component is simply a requirement for everyone to buy the product they proclaim is defective as the justification for the reform to begin with??

That is insanity.

[democracy1st]

112. K & R

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

115. Should Read "Making Historic Profits in the Insurance Industry"

What a load.

[Jamastiene]

117. It's a shit sandwich.

Dammit, you are going to have to come find my ass if you want to force me to fork over what little money I have to the insurance industry that does nothing for me. Enjoy wading through swamps infested with alligators, copperheads, and rattlesnakes looking for me, ya fucking bullies.

[Kansas Wyatt]

124. Fuck him!

And his REPUBLICAN policies.

[Vinca]

126. The most telling thing over the past few weeks is the lack of advertising

from big insurance. Maybe something has been playing in other parts of the country, but where I live all I've seen is a Blue Cross/Blue Shield ad trying to sell Medicare Advantage and not even mentioning the bills in Congress. If big insurance is happy, we're in deep trouble.

[thotzRthingz]

128. while "making history" is significant, doing so at the expense of

"making it right" is NOT something which I can support. If they do not include a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION, thus introducing a REAL competition/alternative to the FOR-PROFITs' ... then they're making a huge mistake. CONTROLLING COSTS is just as important (and perhaps more important) as is covering every American with health care insurance.

They should have started with SINGLE PAYER, and stuck to their guns (ramming it down the throats of the FOR-PROFITs). But they did not... so I draw my line at a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION. If NO PUBLIC OPTION, then KILL THE BILL!

The above said, I invite/implore everyone to http://pol.moveon.org/block/index.html">SIGN THIS PETITION (do it today, and be sure to pass it on)!