Ever wonder why Howard Dean was never going to get anywhere near the Oval Office?

[DFW]

And he never will, either. Washington is like the Little Old Lady From Pasadena: "The guys come to race her
from miles around, but she'll give them a length, then she'll shut 'em down."

Howard is an advocate of the public. That scares a LOT of people, more than any of us could probably imagine.

Why do some in the government (notice no Republicans bother to have any harsh words for him any more?) take the
time to bash the supposedly "irrelevant" Howard Dean? Is it be because he boldly says what no one has ever
dared to say before? Well, actually, no. There ARE voices out there, but the MSM like to play down people like
Kucinich and Bernie Sanders. But Howard speaks eloquently, forcefully, and from vast knowledge of the subject.
Joe Lieberman apparently has no earthly clue about the medical profession. Howard has every clue in the world.

The MSM probably love Howard because he is such an engaging speaker and knows the subject matter, but also because
he is the ONE major advocate out there WHO ISN'T RUNNING FOR ANYTHING, AND IS BEING PAID BY EXACTLY NOBODY. He doesn't
have any primaries to win, no polls to watch, no more defeats to contend with, and no clients' interests to protect.
There aren't a lot of informed guys on the talk shows who have absolutely nothing to gain or lose.

The public is Howard's patient, and the doctor is in.

When I asked him his plans right after Davos, he told me back in February that he would lend his name to some law firm
for income, and, if ignored by the Obama administration (Daschle had just pulled away from HHS, and Sibelius wasn't yet
nominated), spend the rest of his time "raising hell for causes he cared about." Once again, Howard has kept his word.

That should surprise no one. For those who know him, it would have come as a shock if he had done anything different.

Personally, I absolutely HATE IT to see squabbling between Howard and the Obama White House. This was an alliance that
should have been made in heaven. I realize that the Obama White House has had to contend with the ugly realities of
political life in Washington, and Howard is now blissfully liberated from all that. Howard would have been saddled with
the same frustrating crap, had he been elected, and it would be naïve to assume otherwise. Still, I can't help feel that
he would have gone about things differently. He was known for getting right into people's faces when Governor of Vermont,
and I think he would have done the same as President. Obviously, as President of the United States, you have more to
contend with than maple farmers and the winter skiing industry, but so did Howard as governor, and I think he would have
brought his style and passion to the job. Obama has style, and (I think) some passion as well, but somehow he hasn't yet
managed to cash them in on any really major issues beyond the stimulus so far (although that was a bigger victory than many
give him credit for).

I just wish that somehow, Obama would have been there with his arm around Howard's shoulder, fighting side by side for
radical health care reform. So far, there has been no evidence of any kind of alliance at all. That's a shame, because
it leads to the question, fairly or unfairly, as to who, pray tell, is allied with whom? Just see the many threads on DU.
Some of the speculation is downright ugly. But that alliance made in heaven is, so far, anyway, just a pipe dream.

Too bad. Sic transit gloria mundi, ergo:

Expect to hear a lot more from the "irrelevant" doctor from Vermont.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Another way of saying we don't have a country anymore. (Or maybe ever)

[DFW]

5. I wouldn't go that far.

Should Howard REALLY become irrelevant, THEN, I'd get frightened. The fact that he is the very opposite of "irrelevant"
means that there is indeed ground for optimism. Just needs a LOT of nurturing.

[bjobotts]

59. Everything is at peak...these are the defining moments,Corporatocracy vs democracy

[dotymed]

125. Unfortunately, because of our President,

Corporatocracy is waay ahead. Honestly, President Obama has continued most of the same programs (FISA, non-regulation of the financial industry, wars...you name it) that bush had. The ONLY difference is that he can speak and he doesn't treat all other nations (except the House of Saud)like they are inferior, when in fact, many of them are vastly superior especially in Civil Rights and truth in media,,etc..) President Obama has the same "I got mine" mindset, he just doesn't snarl it publicly. I worked for Obama and because of that, I feel especially upset by his lack of, so many qualities and goals for anyone not already wealthy.

[AlbertCat]

157. Unfortunately, because of our President,

You mean "presidentS"

Don't pretend Bush and even Clinton not to mention Reagan had nothing to do with the Plutocracy we find ourselves in. This is not all Obama's fault....and no one can just shut it down like "that". But Obama sure isn't thinking outside the box.

[Lucky Luciano]

135. Something slightly innacurate in your OP

"Howard is an advocate of the public. That scares a LOT of people, more than any of us could probably imagine."

Howard does not scare A LOT of people. He scares a lot of dollars. The elite of the elite are a very small group of people!

[DFW]

138. They may be small in absolute terms

But the number of people who share or depend on their wealth increases their sphere of influence
by geometric measures. And then there are those who are just by nature terrified of any kind of
progress or fundamental change. They are the ones who give their last dollar to a televangelist
because he has convinced them that the devil will get them if their street sign is repainted.
There are all sorts of people who are frightened by someone like Howard who tells them that
things could change for the better. Some people will always prefer to go down with a sinking
ship they are familiar with rather than swim to another one that is still afloat.

[OnyxCollie]

129. Correct.

The SCOTUS ceded power to the criminals in 2000, the criminals stole the election in 2004, and it is naive to believe the criminals "went away" when Obama was elected.

The balance of power shifted by extralegal means. It will take more than a legitimate action to get it back.

Enjoy the illusion. (As much as you can stand, anyway.)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

145. off-topic

Just had to comment on your sig pic. That is one gorgeous dog! :-)

[OnyxCollie]

149. Thank you!

[DFW]

2. For the record, by the way:

I saw an "unrec" in less time than anyone could possibly have read the whole post, so it looks like someone
read the title and not the content.

Let me make this clear: Howard happens to be a personal friend, and if he had become President, I may well
have had the delicious dilemma of keeping my job, which I love, or being asked to be Ambassador to Germany,
or something. I would have LOVED to see Howard as president. Still would. But I know it's not gonna happen,
and so does he.

[madfloridian]

8. Oh, yeh, the unrecs start early.

Nice post, recommended.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

62. WONDER IF THE UNREC WAS A GOOD IDEA

[rhett o rick]

171. I dont think they are a factor. Doesnt hurt the great posts like this one. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

41. We thank him for his voice.

He could have gone off to that law firm and just lived out his life. He stands for the people.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Tell him you met a woman on the Internet

Tell him you met a woman from Kansas on the Internet who loves him. :loveya:

Thanks:hi:

[Demoiselle]

133. Tell him you met TWO women on the Internet ...

I've always loved him too.
I tend to avoid cliches like "straight shooter"...but he's the living embodiment of that phrase.
If there's an outfit around somewhere that wants to work to get him elected president, I'm available.

[DFW]

139. I had better be specific

Howard knows my wife, and if I keep telling him I'm meeting women on the internet, he'll think something is amiss! LOL!!

[Edweird]

Please let him know how much we appreciate what he is doing.

The more people that can speak the truth and get it "out there", the better. He is the best thing going.

[Edweird]

167. Please let him know how much we appreciate what he is doing.

The more people that can speak the truth and get it "out there", the better. He is the best thing going.

[DFW]

173. I have, and his attention has been directed to more than one DU thread

He doesn't peruse blogs as a rule, of course. He is almost constantly on the road, although he treasures
his down time with Judith and his children highly. He has been very successful in this. I know of plenty
of family things he has been at all over the map, and have not seen one single article on them--good for him.

But he does not have his head in the sand, and just as he is mindful of toes he steps on, he appreciates
the appreciation as well.

[iceman66]

3. The media destroyed him after the 'scream'.

If he started to get popular again, they'd find a way to do it again.

[DFW]

7. I'm all too afraid you're spot on.

He's popular, just not running for anything and POLLING popular. That's when they sharpen their knives.

[HughMoran]

11. Yes, if the media hadn't forced him to scream after he LOST a primary he should have WON

Seriously, you do realize that what you said is utter bullshit. Dean lost and then self-destructed. MSM my ass.

[DFW]

17. Howard will be the first to tell you "we didn't know what we were doing" in the campaign

The media made him as much as they destroyed him. He lost that first primary because he had no organization that knew
how to go about winning one. The scream provided a convenient thing for the media to latch onto, and his organization
never knew how to contend with it. He'll take all the blame you want to toss at him, and raise you one. But that doesn't
change the fact that the whole "front-runner" thing was pretty much made up by the media to begin with, so when it
didn't translate out into votes in the beginning, the death of his campaign was hastened by mocking "journalism" commenting
on the scream ad nauseam as if it had had the lasting historical effect of the splitting of the atom.

[HughMoran]

22. He was a bit of a wild-card right from the beginning

I still don't think he has the discipline that's required to run for President. I do remember taking a flight out of Manchester NH the day after his loss - I was sitting next to a supporter who had flown in to work for him - it was a sad day. On a positive note, Lieberman came in 5th place :)

[DFW]

25. That, actually is a very good question

I wouldn't want to speculate about whether or not he has the necessary discipline. He certainly has matured
politically since I first met him (2001), and after being DNC chairman, he has learned the ropes of being
head of a national organization. His first national prominence was pretty much an internet mushroom that grew in
size at a rate far beyond what he had the time to master. His penchant for speaking his mind right off the cuff
might be interpreted as lacking the necessary discipline, but I wouldn't want to assume that flat out any more.

You and I will never know, though, as he definitively and absolutely has no interest whatsoever in running again
(so far, anyway). The winds change in Washington, and often at times and in ways that we never could have predicted.
But I'm pretty sure I'd hear it straight from him if he were suddenly contemplating another shot at it, and so far,
he says no way no how, and he has never lied to me yet.

[Hatchling]

126. Let him know that that some of us have got his back.

If Obama's campaign taught us anything it was how the 'netroots' can be used.

I, for one, would love to see him campaign for President again. 2012 is probably a no go, though I'd vote for him, but 2016 is wide open for a Dean campaign.

Make it so. Please.

[iceman66]

31. I didn't think he was ready to be President at the time either,

but the media didn't really give him a chance after Iowa.

He went on to do a damn fine job as head of the DNC, certainly better than his replacement Tim Kaine (who seems to be auditioning for a remake of "The Invisible Man").

That said, I hope he does NOT challenge Obama in 2012.

[KoKo]

43. Dean brought in folks of all age groups ..and so did Kucinich back

before 2004. Those of all ages and incomes and "stripes" who were horrified by 2000 Selection. Dean remade the Dem Party by bringing in the activists who were not welcomed by the Party Powers that Be but who got the party "Intenet Savvy" and brought in the first "Organizing" they'd seen since the "old Bosses" and the Unions met their demise.

I personally know from North Carolina Politics what Howard Dean and his "Deaniacs and Kucinich Supporters" did to bring our Party Forward. They didn't like us for it...and still, to this day, see us as "fringe" but the difference that has been made is still there and will grow.

Both Dean and Kucinich were rallying forces after 2000 Selection and out of that has spawned new offshoots like PDA/ACT BLUE and the many split off Activist Sites that feed Media with Counter Action to their spineless shilling.

Before Dean and Kucinich in their first runs...there was NO HOPE...their supporters created a "structure" for a new Movement. It's not dead yet. That we have what "very sadly" appears to be an Empty Suit in the Presidency today owes more to the Power Entrenchment that still exists but underneat is the framework for the REAL AND TRUE CHANGE for AMERICA. It's just going to take a lot longer than any of us ever thought.

Perhaps Obama can be open to the Change that he Promised. We need to keep working and hoping that can happen. But, if it doesn't work out...the REAL CHANGE MOVMENT will be the "Back Stop" because it's there and growing.

I thank both Dean and Kucinich for this. But, Dean because he got money into the STATE Dem Parties for Modernization as DNC CHAIR...and that made a difference before it got cut off. And it will still keep going no matter what "THEY" try to do.

[iceman66]

106. You make some very good points,

but I wouldn't write off Obama as an "empty suit" just yet.

Wait and see if he learns a lesson from the health care mess.

[DFW]

117. I'm hoping you're correct about that

He's no idiot. I just hope he is still able to do enough of that outside-of-the-box thinking that got him
where he is today. His capacity for learning is still immense. Of that, I'm confident. But he has to exercise
the will to use it, and dare to be confrontational when there is no other solution. I'm just hoping he differs
with me (and so many others) as to where and when that point has been reached. I hope he'll take his opposition
head on at some point (very soon, for example), before they get a chance at using his reticence against him
next fall. The best way to get more Democratic Senators elected is NOT to behave as if being Republican is
alright. It should be clear by now to anyone with at least four our of five senses intact that as a Democratic
President, acting too conciliatory to Republicans who have no other agenda than your failure is NOT alright.

[dotymed]

132. Unless he starts firing a lot

of his advisers, he will never regain the trust of many of his previous supporters. People like; Rahm, Summers, Bernanke and the lobbyists (he promised to not hire), along with all of the corporate and MIC spokesman. JMO

[TwentyFive]

140. I'm not ready to write off Obama either. He needs YOUR support - now more than ever.

People compare healthcare to the 1964 Civil Rights Act...where Johnson apparently 'twisted arms' to get votes.

Johnson was able to lean on democrats because much of the nation had his back. Mass demonstrations everywhere...MLK, Malcom X, street protests and rallies. The media, university professors...and even parts of the business community and clergy wanted real equality. Where are those groups today? Indeed...the only protests I see are from Teabaggers...and the constant drumbeat of negative ads put out by the healthcare industry.

[rhett o rick]

172. Well what is he waiting for. He could start at any time showing us that he supports us over big

business. But he hasnt up to now, and I dont think he will. We have given him plenty of time to show that he supports us and he has failed.

[HughMoran]

116. Yep, he was a great head of the DNC

I also agree - he was not ready to be President.

I was also pointing out that he had already lost 2 critical races before the scream, so his momentum was gone before that point - the scream was nothing more than icing on an already baked "nice try" cake.

[KoKo]

42. Dean might not be Presidential Material...but he is and has remained a FORCE...

and if he's a rallying point for many of us...then he's a Voice for Change..and we need someone who will speak out for us after what we've been through. If he can gather together the coalition he had and those who have come to respect him and even some of the RW..to understand that this is all about SAVING AMERICA...PRINCIPLES...then as a "Truth Teller" in the interim...he provides a valuable service. And, perhaps he KNOWS THAT...and for that I give him credit for speaking out now when it was so important for those of us on the Left to have a voice and a rallying point until we can move on to the "next step" whatever that is..

[dmr]

69. Wonderful idea. A coalition. A populous voting bloc. A force to be reckoned with.

I'd be the first to sign up.

Yup. A voting bloc headed by Dean. Would he do it?

[DFW]

70. I don't think so, and here's why

Beyond DFA, Howard at this point has such tremendous credibility because he isn't running for
anything, and stands to gain nothing for being successful in his cause. We do. He does not.
It is a very liberating position to be in, politically. As head of a new voting bloc, he would
be beholden to voices within its structure as well as fundraisers. As one who can't be accused
of being beholden to outside interests, Howard is, at the moment, in a rather unique position
on the progressive side, and I think he wants to continue to enjoy that.

[Goldstein1984]

88. What about being the head of a block of activists?

We need someone without a goal of public office; someone who isn't afraid to do the outrageous to shake up the status quo.

I and others have said that our elected representatives will only represent us when they fear us more than they fear their corporate masters.

We need someone to organize us. Someone willing to call for the boycotts, general strikes and civil disobedience needed to shake the political and economic elite out of their comfort zone.

And here is what I fear if such a person doesn't show up: Without an organizing force, when things do get worse, or if they simply don't get better, without a leader to focus the outrage, we're going to end up with riots instead of marches, with burning buildings instead of bonfires; with violent dissent instead of non-violent action.

[HughMoran]

119. I agree - we need an organizing force

I've been saying this over and over again - simply screaming at each other here and on other blogs simply dissipates energy and makes the "left" look self-destructive and, frankly, kind of nutty. If we don't find away to focus our energy, we're simply going to self-destruct. And no, I don't see any acting out occurring - not while people can sit like blobs of poo in front of their computers and rip apart people who disagree with them on perhaps 5 - 10% of issues.

[Goldstein1984]

164. I've going to keep advocating it in any relevant post I write

Places like DU are a great way to share ideas and have your views challenges, and even to rally people around an idea, but I also worry that it serves a therapeutic purpose: "There. I wrote it, and I feel better now," followed by no further action.

I don't want to see violent change, so I'm advocating as hard as I can for radical nonviolent methods and civil disobedience.

The people have lost control of the government. We need to take it back. That means making our elected representatives fear us. Fear has been used effectively to control the American people: the Cold War, the War on Drugs, the War on Terror. I think the people need to launch their own War on Oligarchy.

[KoKo]

179. We need a "Rally Round" and Dean is obviously a good person to do it around.

Even if he isn't Presidential Material...he's a voice that's come out and said the truth...at a time when folks are desperate feeling betrayed. I'm glad he's here. He is a "Rally Round" until we figure out what we do next...what is available for us...and for that I THANK HIM!

[Goldstein1984]

180. I think that to do what we need to do - take back the government

the "Rally Round" should probably be outside the system, where there are fewer rules.

[XemaSab]

49. He was the first one to really organize using the internet

Obama won on the shoulders of Dean as far as using online fundraising and organization.

[defendandprotect]

84. True . . . and that idea has since by followed by others -- Obama raised $800 million++++

[Hekate]

23. The media used a directional microphone. A friend of mine was IN that room...

... and she said you could not hear yourself think, the noise from the crowd was so intense. In order to be heard at all over the noise, Dean had to yell. He was giving his people a pep talk.

The aforementioned media used a directional mic that picked up Dean's words and excluded most of the crowd noise. Golly-gee, it was colorful.

Then they played it on tv out of context more than 600 times over the next several days. They made him look like a loon, when all he was doing was giving a room-full of his volunteers a pep-talk. More than 600 times the nation got to hear "the scream."

Howard Dean did not "self-destruct" -- he was made the butt of a joke by the MSM and they took him down.

In my opinion, THAT'S the steaming pile of utter bullshit.

Hekate

[HughMoran]

26. OK, so let's blame the media for the microphone, he still lost the NH primary

Look, I was as disgusted as you were, but I didn't make excuses for what happened.

[Duppers]

55. Dean was/ still is the man!

Bet you're down on Gore too.

I loved them both.

The media makes & breaks most all candidates, unfortunately.

WTMIL.

[Username 12]

80. The media didn't have to break Obama

Sadly, he has broken himself.

WTF happened with this guy?????

[glitch]

37. That has been explained thousands of times. The people who bring up the "self-destructing scream"

have no interest in the reality of the situation, only in the meme.

[Jim Sagle]

54. That's because they're five buck an hour DLC hogwash dispensers.

[Duppers]

56. I wholeheartedly agree

You're describing HM. And to think, I used to respect him.

[HughMoran]

121. He had already lost his momentum

...the "scream" was simply a focal point of the media and had nothing to do with his already lost momentum. Why do people focus on the words I use versus the meaning behind them? Why focus on one post where I may not have completely flushed out what I was trying to say before looking at follow on posts where I have done just that? I'm not the hogwash dispenser - I simply say things people don't want to hear.

I still keep my Dean pin on my sun visor so I can see it every say - do you? Doesn't mean he's beyond criticism or that one view of his demise in 2004 is the only "acceptable" view here.

[defendandprotect]

85. Agree . . . we might also say that Kerry "self-destructed" as a military coward . ..!!!

Those who fail to understand that our corporate press is being used to

weed out leaders they don't want and to push leaders they do want need to

rethink some of these issues for themselves. And, re 2000 ---

Lots to rethink there and nothing that has changed!!!

[XemaSab]

155. I was in that room

This clip (ironically from FOX) gives a pretty good sense of the mood in the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5FzCeV0ZFc

[Political Heretic]

159. ABC actually REPORTED THAT and showed home video from member in crowd to prove it

And there was no "scream."

Its funny, I just happened to be watching ABC when they for some reason had the balls to tell the truth about this.... but it was picked up by absolutely no one, and so the meme was born.

[Vinnie From Indy]

45. Well, if he was speaking, you might have a point.

Cheers!

[XemaSab]

48. The so called "scream" didn't happen the way you think it did

Trust me. I was there.

[bertman]

63. Once again you prove that your moniker is just absolutely PERFECT, Mr. Moran.

[Terra Alta]

68. The "scream" was blown way out of proportion.

It was just Dean showing his passion and enthusiasm, and encouraging those who were working so hard for him. The MSM played the "scream" ad nauseum, making him look like a deranged fool and causing(in part) for him not to win the nomination. No doubt the MSM would do the same to him if he ran again.

[HughMoran]

114. The point is, he had already lost momentum before the stupid "scream" incident

He wasn't going to win anyway! That is my point!!

It doesn't matter what the media did with the scream - he had already lost critical momentum by that time and we all knew it. The scream shit was just used as an excuse to "blame" somebody.

[defendandprotect]

83. There was no "scream" . . . the amplification was "edited" --

and IMO this wasn't just a MSM Swiftboating, the DLC was in there helping

it along.

[ima_sinnic]

91. *yawn* you got anything besides distortion and bs ?

your "insightful" comments are sooooo deep, I always hang on your every word

[SOS]

144. Cable and network showed the scream 633 times in four days

Every single one used the unidirectional rather than the ambient audio.
CNN officially apologized after the job was done.

CNN>Time Warner>Richard Parsons CEO> Bush Pioneer.

Probably all a coincidence.

[Autumn Colors]

20. No, they did it after what he said on Hardball

He said his first executive act as President would be to break up the big media conglomerates.

Within ONE WEEK, those very conglomerates took him down via that piece of video (with incomplete audio so the public couldn't hear all the audience noise and that he was simply trying to be heard over that noise).

[iceman66]

29. That makes a lot of sense.

Of course the didn't destroy him BECAUSE of the scream, but they used it to turn him into a laughing stock.

[HughMoran]

52. Yes, losing the primary had no bearing on his not winning

I swear - the fantasies cooked up on this board point to a lot of creative minds being wasted.

[karynnj]

60. John Kerry submitted legislation that would have done so the year before

he ran. As that was more concrete than a line on Hardball, I doubt the cause and effect.

The fact is if not for the scream, the stories would have been - "Why they didn't see Kerry's win coming" and "Why the "frontrunner" lost by 20 points - 18% to Kerry's 38%. If anything, the scream took airtime away from a jubilant John Kerry.

[Political Heretic]

161. Look pal, there was no scream, ABC even reported exactly what happened

ABC showed what was being labeled "the scream" by other media outlets, showing what it sounded like when professional media was using unidirectional mic drowning out all crowd noise.

Then they played home video from someone in the crowd - the crowd was so loud that you can't even hear what's now called a "scream." It was completely appropriate to the event and sounds tame compared to some of what Obama did on the campaign trail.

The media manufactured a story and ran with it - it was part of a large meme to perpetuate the "Dean is angry and crazy" meme after he'd angered major money holders in our political system.

You doubt the cause and effect? John Kerry's legislation had zero change in hell of getting anywhere. Corporate lobbyists know how to pick there battles. A candidate for the highest office in the land that says he wants his first priority to be breaking up corporate conglomerates is a greater threat.

I'm saying all this, and I wasn't even a Dean devotee - I was more of an outside observer. It's just interesting to watch people either re-write history now or fail to understand the past.

[karynnj]

178. I agree that the "scream" was distorted, but that does not change

my point - that I made in several posts better than I did here. I should have said the "purported scream" rather than just scream. That does not change the fact that DEAN lost by 20 points BEFORE the purported scream - in a race he was expected to win.

As to the cause and effect, Kerry had a real record of going after politically protected entities (he took on the Contras and BCCI) - Dean, moderate governor of VT did not. Kerry had consistently spoken of the need for diverse media. It is stunning that you think that a casual comment in a Hardball interview was more significant than legislation written that Kerry knew would be opposed by the media was frivolous.

I am not rewriting history. I stated a fact - Kerry won by 20 points. I then stated a conjecture - what would the news stories be. The latter is by definition opinion. Now, you could say that you think the stories would be something different, that is fair. But, I seriously do not see any possibility that the coverage of that night could have been anything but positive for Kerry and negative for Dean.

You say you were an independent observer, but your view is 100% through Dean's lens.

[Political Heretic]

181. My "view" is only to correct the falsehood about the "scream"

Have you seen anything else?

[defendandprotect]

86. THAT needs to keep being repeated . . . especially because those who

attacked Dean then were right back the other day attacking him again ---

from the White House -- and obviously DLC inspired!

[Political Heretic]

160. This is exactly right. And I watched him say that and marked the time his campaign died.

Not that I don't think he should have said it. I'm glad he did.

What disappoints me is that people don't even remember why he lost.

It wasn't some artificially created "scream." It was his promise not to play ball with the rulers of the country.

[Greyhound]

76. The M$M created the scream and then used it to destroy his candidacy. n/t

[fishwax]

124. yep nt

[G_j]

4. +1

[JNelson6563]

6. Excellent post.

I agree with you completely. I am proud to be a Dean supporter from 2003, he's still out there speaking for me (and countless others).

Julie

[HughMoran]

9. Dean's a good guy

I supported him in 1003 and was mad at what Kerry said about Dean when Kerry was down & out. His opinion on this is right, though he's gone a little overboard on the rhetoric, thus why he's the "hero of the week" on DU. He deserves kudos for all he's done during this healthcare debate. I suppose he is a little to "honest" for Washington. Glad he's on our side.

[Mithreal]

73. .

[winyanstaz]

10. Obama's arm is not around Howard Dean..fighting for us...

bcause his arm is around the insurance companies right now.

[WT Fuheck]

12. change is not on the agenda of the status quo. never has been. never will be.

the status quo PTB *own* the political system outright.

[defendandprotect]

87. Correct . . . there is only one direction TPB will move in -- towards the right . . .

and if the Democratic Party's only competitition is from the near-fascist GOP

then the Democatic Party will continue to be moved to the right.

Something suggests we need to break that cycle --

What's Plan B???

[PassingFair]

13. I'm sure people said the same shit about Lincoln....

but you NEVER know WHAT can happen.

We should BE so lucky to get a person like Howard Dean
into a position of real power.

It would probably kill Howard, but the country
would be infinitely better off for centuries to come.

I'm hoping for a miracle, but I'll settle for his
influence from the sidelines, if that's the way it is.

:hi:

[lib2DaBone]

14. Saw Dean on MSNBC yesterday... he really made sense...

He explained more about Health Care in 3 minutes than I have heard in 3 months from the other guys.. (who are supposed to representing us)

[defendandprotect]

89. That's only because Dean is "irrational," "unstable," and probably "hysterical" . . . ????

Evidently, being concerned for the health of American citizens makes anyone "irrational" -- !!!

At least among the corporates and those pre-bribed and pre-owned by them!!

:evilgrin:

[Dragonfli]

15. It is such a sham, Dean and the Democratic wing of the Democratic party worked tirelessly

in the streets, on the phones, on the blogs and with their wallets to get this majority for the party.

As soon as the elections were over, they discarded Dean and all the rest of us political ground troops that brought them out of the wilderness.

Then within days the "third way" corporate hacks of the party took credit for everything and replaced the progressive change agenda with a corporate friendly sell out.

It was the populist rhetoric and the work of those of us that believe in the "written" platform of the party that got all those votes out and supported the rise to power of what I can only call a bait and switch con job on the majority that voted for change.

Our own enemies conned us into doing the work of convincing people to vote for a very Republican-like corporate agenda that was lurking in the darkest, most corrupt shadows of our party. We (Dean included) are the ones who sold the populist con job that they never could have as they do not believe in traditional Democratic values (they actually appear to stand against our principles).

They conned us first to sell what we believe to people that then expected it, but were duped.
If they ran on what they are doing (or not doing in the case of social and legal justice) they never would have gotten past the primaries.

We have been used by a con man that lied habitually on the campaign trail and betrayed us for an agenda written by corporations.

People like Dean were pushed out as soon as they no longer needed him or us to get elected, and People like Rahm Emanuel were placed into positions of power so the triangulation and final betrayals could begin.

The DLC doesn't even have to win the elections (they can't because they are basically republicans), they have us to do that for them. After all, where are we gonna go? They feel they own us to use and abuse at will. The only way to stop this belief is to stop doing exactly as they expect and stop being dependable doormats that will be there on election day no matter how much they betray us.

It is time to end the charade where they ride the coattails of our progressive ideas only to govern like republicans.
It is time to stop being the beard that allows them to lurk in the shadows and pretend to believe in our platform.
It is time to run against them for a change and let them try to get elected on the corporate vision they truly wish to manifest.

It is time folks, the DLC must die within the party or we must oppose them from without.

[bertman]

64. Proudly seconding what Dragonfli just said.

[Swamp Rat]

72. Dragonfli!!

:applause::yourock::patriot: :hi::hug:

[whathehell]

111. You rock too, Swamp Rat...that picture says it all!

[defendandprotect]

90. Nice post --- !! The DLC is committed to moving the party to the right . . .

not to change and certainly not to any progressive program for national health care.

The Democratic Party is so contaminated throughout with corporate money -- certainly

with leaders doing their bidding -- that I don't know if there is any way to regain

control of it???

[PuraVidaDreamin]

100. This ones for you Dragonfli

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo84F_CBeG4

by ziggy


:hi:

[Nay]

103. Yeah, what Dragonfli said!!

[unapatriciated]

123. Yes!

That is why I'm so very angry and depressed.
I convinced many family, friends and strangers that Obama believed in and would promote our party platform and values.
I knew where he stood on Afghanistan, but believed he would indeed listen to us as he promised.
Since the majority wanted an end to these wars, I was naive enough to think what we wanted mattered.

I'm angry with myself because I should have known better.
I spent 11 years in an abusive relationship and should have recognized the pretty wrapped gift for what it really was.
A distraction to keep us submissive until the next beating.

[donco6]

143. Couldn't agree More

That's exactly how it happened.

[paparush]

147. DING! DING! DING! We have a winna!

Dragonfli - excellent summary!

[davidwparker]

16. ... because Dean threatened to bring the people into the White House and had

the backbone to not sell out when he got there.

Therefore, he HAD to be stopped.

[Autumn Colors]

18. How about Chairman of a third party ???

We need a third party and I would love to see Howard fulfill the same role building that as he did for the DNC.

[DFW]

21. Don't count on it

Howard is a lifelong Democrat, and now that he has no political ambitions, he will advocate the return of the "Democratic
Wing of the Democratic Party" as long as he has breath in him. But his credibility as a progressive Democrat is huge, where
it would suffer (imagine the field day the media would have) immensely if the most effective DNC chair in recent history
suddenly left to form a third party. He wants a better Democratic Party, not a diluted one, and I agree. It would be a sad
day, indeed, when I think the Democratic Party is not worth saving. A diluted one would just lose elections. I say, better
to be rid of the Joe Liebermans and Ben Nelsons than to dilute the party that still gives us Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer.
Latch onto the best we have, and weed out the rot, rather than let the rot win, because if they do, we have already lost.

[defendandprotect]

92. Keep in mind that the two party/one wing system has a lock down on

third parties --

and much would have to be changed to strengthen them --

However, stronger third parties would help us in moving the Democratic Party to

the left -- and in securing more liberal/progressive candidates.

I'd also add that what we hear from the two parties is very limited -- on anything

they discuss.

We really need input from third parties and a broader base of information as far as

programs/issues are concerned and overal "vision" for the nation!!!

[leveymg]

101. Both parties will split - the corporate Center-Right runs both of them now - the activists have

nowhere to go, right now. That goes for the hard-Right, as well, which is Mad as Hell (in many ways) and want their own party. One thing I have to hand to the Rethugs, the GOP mainstream politicians are playing a far better political game of appearing to appease their base. Not many willing to break with the ranks.

What the Dems need is one of two things. If the GOP splits, the Progressives need to do the same while continuing to belong to the Democratic Party but as a rival power (our own leadership, with Howard at the lead) within it. The other option is a purge of the DINOs, but that would be nasty, brutish and short . . .

In the end, the leadership will come to realize it needs to please the base to win elections. Look at the Virginia Governor's race, if you don't believe me.

[defendandprotect]

136. Democrats always prided themselves on not being robots as GOP wants ....

The right wing is going no where --

That may be hard for many to understand because a false "reality" has been created

with the Fundi religious movement, etal. But it is as false as the "teabaggers" and

FreedomWorks. And the right wing think tanks. All done with right wing money.

Therefore, I'm venturing a guess that they aren't going to split off a fakery -- myth.

The rest of what you're saying needs some thought -- I don't necessarily agree nor disagree.

However, it's rather obvious that what we've been doing vs corporatism/fascism for the past

40 years isn't working!!!

And we need to discuss that -- while remembering that the only way the right wing can

rise is thru violence -- assassinations, stolen elections, lies -- buying power.

Harry Reid is called "Republican Lite" in Nevada -- this leadership has been a complete

betrayal of the American voter. I see no repentence coming from either Pelosi or Reid . . .

nor from Obama. They are surrounded and supported by corporate/elites -- they are the

leadership TPB gave us!!!

[man4allcats]

19. I always enjoy reading what Howard has to say.

He's one of the few around with the guts to speak truth to power. As far as I'm concerned, Howard is THE MAN!

[walldude]

24. There was a concerted effort by some in the "D" party to get rid of Dean..

A conspiracy if you will.. Funny thing is I think Gibbs was heading it up.. Let me see if I can find a link..

Got it:
How the Dems Did In Howard Dean
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2004/nf20040225_4752_db009.htm

[defendandprotect]

95. Also would mention that those most easily convinced are watching the idiot box . . .

That's a prime arena for manipulation of public opinion ---

Put the TV in the closet!

[chill_wind]

27. It's both wonderful to read this from someone authentically close to him

and yet the message itself saddens and wisens me. But still comforts me too... that we are talking about him.


Sic transit gloria mundi.

You made me look it up:

"Worldly things are fleeting."

[AllentownJake]

28. They made him chairman to prevent him from running in 2008

and as soon as the victory was won, they sent him packing.

[treestar]

30. Take poor Howard off that cross

Isn't he in politics? Making him into such a folk hero - like Obama the messiah. How is that different?

He won't be President until he gets elected President.

[madfloridian]

33. Oh good grief.

:thumbsdown:

[Binka]

75. THAT ONE just went on ignore

I have been thinking about it for a matter of months....that nasty spew of shit sealed it for me.

[Mithreal]

74. vapid

[freddie mertz]

127. Horse manure.

Pure and stinky.

[phasma ex machina]

32. K&R nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. He will never be irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

And how lucky that you know him personally!

That has to be fun, for sure.

He is such a clear, level-headed thinker. We need him right where he is...out there on the hustings, saying the things that no-one else dares to.

Thank you!

K&R

[DFW]

77. When a friend first introduced us way back when

I thought, "never heard of him, and he's thinking about running for president?"

Then I listened to what he had to say, and I understood why Howard was worth listening to.
The fact that we both like to play the same guitar tunes didn't hurt, either! It's definitely
a small mutual admiration society--he is unashamedly blown away by my 12-string guitar playing,
and I am unashamedly blown away by his ability to inspire half a nation. His is the greater skill.

[upi402]

35. We need 4 parties

1. Rational Right
2. Republicans and the fundies who love them
3. Democrats and their corporate masters
4. Progressives, formerly known as Democrats - before the sell out.

Let the coalition wars begin! We can't do worse.

[bvar22]

44. The NEW Progressive Party could use THIS as their platform:

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

--FDR's "Economic Bill of Rights.

FDR was a leader of the OLD Democratic Party which bears NO relation to today's NEW Democratic Party which is STILL benefiting from Brand Loyalty to the OLD Democratic Party.

[ima_sinnic]

97. +++1

bvar, I watch for your posts--you have a way of getting to the heart of things and hanging it all out for everybody to see. You're among the top 10 who work relentlessly to expose the fraudulent bloodsuckers for what they are and, at the same time, as here, present progressive alternatives--that works for me!

:yourock:

[leveymg]

102. Yes!

[defendandprotect]

98. We need to expose the GOP/FUNDI movement for the farce it is . ..

a heavily financed right wing network to reestablish patriarchal authority --

GOP gave start up funding for the Chrisitian Coalition in the 1980's --

Scahife financed Dobson's organization -- and other wealthy right winders financed

Bauer's organization.

It's all farce -- a "reality" created by the right that we have all been trying to deal

with rather than EXPOSING!!!

[natrat]

36. ever wonder why obama tried like hell to keep burris out of washington

[democracy1st]

38. K & R

[amborin]

39. k&r

[Ruby the Liberal]

40. Thank you for your insight, DFW

I was peeved when Dean wasn't the top nom for HHS.

I moved to pissed watching the Administration stooges attempt to discredit his opinion this week. He apparently threatened their sponsors.

I remain a proud Deniac.

[Major Hogwash]

46. He's an unelected people, after all. Hahahahaha!!!! Tweety will die with that as his meme.

What a dumbass moment Tweety had the other day, making that his excuse why we shouldn't listen to Dean.

Who, by the way, is an unelected people, too.

HAH!

Just like he would laugh.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

47. Dean is a good man. The MSM is using him for some purpose, to hide something

or other. We do not have the money for HCR, nor even Defense. No money for War. There is no money.

We are broke. Is that what the MSM/Govt is trying to hide for over a year now?

Fess the Fuck Up MSM.

The Money is gone, the banks are insolvent.

[Triana]

51. Rahm hates him. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

61. Which shows Obama made a crappy choice for Chief of Staff. The deals the WH does to secure billions

for big pharma, and potentially, forced insurance & fines will be talked about for decades. It is questionable at best.

I see the good things in the HCB, but the bad things are not good - so I'm torn. I want the good stuff, can't they do that part without a mandate for coverage. How I wish they would do a Public Option... Hopefully John Kerry is right, I like him, so I'm just hoping he's right.

[DFW]

67. I think Obama made a strategic choice for Chief of Staff

He chose a guy from his state who was known for getting things done, which Obama needed. However,
the guy he chose also is a hothead who carries a grudge to the point where his personal feelings
are allowed to take precedence over the best interests of the country (just my opinion there), and
that is where I would drawn the line. Obama obviously saw this differently, which I obviously think
unfortunate. But I wasn't elected President. He was. So it's his call, for better or for worse.

[Divine Discontent]

71. yep - for better or worse - it seems for worse so far, but, he knows Rahm, and I'm hoping that

'for better' comes out of this all. It's his term in office, but I hope he's not ruining with Afghanistan, Patriot Act, banksters getting way too much, the HCB potentially being a disaster with all the changes that the other side have gotten into it.

For better or worse, indeed... we shall see.

[freddie mertz]

128. For worse as of right now, or so it seems.

[autorank]

53. I admire Dean a great deal and all the more for his staned up position now

He's a sincere, committed politician. Guy was right on Iraq, completely right, and right on many other approaches. Dean was a great opportunity for a real transition to a more inclusive and caring nation, clear headed, and focused in real concerns. He's not going away. He's just getting better. k*r

[dpbrown]

57. Rahm Emmanuel hates Howard Dean, but more importantly, finds the entire Left "irrelevant"

They intend only to use us during elections and then shit on us the rest of the time.

Thank you, Howard Dean.

Stay out of small planes.

[JCMach1]

58. Dean is something like the Huey Long of our day without the corruption

and that's a problem for the powers that be.

[bertman]

65. 150th Rec. Hooray. Great post, DFW.

[1]

66. no. its really much more simple than that...

dean is unelectable. like kucinich.

the vast majority of americans would never vote for them.

and yeah, yeah, go on and on about campaign spending and the m$m...

the fact remains these dudes cannot ever get the required support. sorry to piss in your cornflakes, thems are the facts...

[Mithreal]

79. but you enjoyed it and that is what counts

here's some attention, Joe

[ima_sinnic]

94. another "deep thinker"

sorry, I'm no longer falling for the trite, meaningless "unelectable" soundbite.
We can see the piss-poor results of voting for "electable" candidates.
the republican democrats dismiss the left, and progressives in particular, at their own peril.
I fully intend to vote for the "unelectables" from now on, because the mainstream candidates in the single-party system just aren't doing anything for me anymore--mentally, spiritually, emotionally, financially, psychologically, or any other way. They have come down to being corrupt liars whose sound and fury signify absolutely NOTHING.

[democrank]

78. Howard Dean is a threat to many Washington insiders.

He`s a straight-talker. Washington insiders and their cocktail party pals in corporate media demean folks like Howard Dean. He`s too unpolished for their tastes and he doesn`t respond well to handling and image-making.

Howard is "off message" way too often which doesn`t sit well with the 30-second soundbite crowd. If he sees a pile of dog crap, he doesn`t grab a microphone with a herd of striped suits behind him and announce to the nation that he has just seen a strawberry sundae.

I`m glad Howard Dean is in the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party. He displays character most of the other "leaders" should strive to duplicate.

[PatrynXX]

81. The MSM put him out to pasture.

2004 = Media had never been to a pep rally before and thought for whatever reason Howard was an angry man. He never recovered from that rally. Hello??? Anybody been to high school before. Wasn't that long ago. Do'h.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

82. Shall we just crucify him now, so you will be relieved? n/t

[smalll]

93. As much as I love his honesty over this "health care" bill -

Screaming Doesn't Help. :shrug:

(And yes, I know, his audience screamed first, and he was miked wierdly. But yet and still, as a major contender for the Party's nomination, you don't shout "Yeaargghh" willy-nilly. :dunce: )

[DFW]

96. So he got carried away.

As I said before, and as Howard has said any number of times, he and the campaign charged into the 2004
race without any real idea of what they were doing or how to go about it. His campaign manager just joined
Fox for Pete's sake. That's a "where am I gonna find a good salary to live on" move for a Democrat.

He is perfectly honest about all that as well. He has moved on--way on--from his presidential campaign.
So should we.

[defendandprotect]

99. There was no "scream" . .. the tape was manipulated .. .

Maybe what we're tired of is a party which sits back while its members are attacked --

and "Swiftboated" -- it wasn't just Dean, of course ---

They pull up the least likely candidate and then destroy even them - i.e., Kerry.

[Raster]

131. What a shrill little post. There was no "scream." There was a blatant manipulation of the audio

portion of the tape of the event to make it look like Dr. Dean screamed and then it was hyped by the corporate-owned media into something it completely was not.

When we continue to support and perpetuate memes--no matter how noble our underlying intentions--we enable the same people we wish to defeat.

The takeaway: No scream. That piece of dishonest idiocy was used to shut down Dean's candidacy. Period.

[chill_wind]

And isn't t that what matters? Honesty on vitally critical policy? Or is all about "Brand"?

We have Madison Avenue "Brand" now. It couldn't have been more polished. Almost no gaffes. How's that working out now, on substance and vitally needed reform.?

[chill_wind]

142. deleted dupe

[Dinger]

104. K & R

Damn, when will this shit end?

[green917]

105. 3 words answer your initial question

Universal health care

Gov. Dean is a strong advocate of universal single-payer health care. That is the main reason his candidacy for The Presidency was torpedoed and is also the reason the Obama White House has given him the cold shoulder. Dr. Dean & Rahm don't get along from what I've heard, at least partly due to the health care issue.

[murphyj87]

107. The best Christmas present?

[DFW]

112. The Howard-Rahm thing is years old, and is a DNC vs. DCCC thing

There was an important meeting at the DNC in May 2006, when the financing plans for the 2006 midterms
were to be worked out. Rahm wanted to continue the old practice of trying to concentrate on geographical
area where the Democrats were solid, and build upon that to eke out a tiny House majority. Howard had
his own ideas about that, and said that he was going to try out his 50-state strategy, trying to allocate
scarce resources spread out everywhere, including areas where we were thought not to have a chance. Rahm
was absolutely furious, and there was a literal screaming match between the two of them at the DNC in
Washington. Rahm was seen heading out of there with steam coming out of his ears. I saw him in DC a day
or two later, and he looked high-strung enough to blow to bits if you were to stick a pin in him. I don't
think he ever forgave Howard for doubting him, and it must have absolutely killed him to see Howard be
completely vindicated. He got his revenge when he has the chance to shut Howard out of the Obama administration.
Rahm got his petty revenge, and we lost out on having Howard as HHS Secretary (thanks, Rahm).

It was a Pyrrhic victory at best, as Howard has been a thorn in their side ever since, especially when they
started "compromising" on health care, and Howard has been calling them on it with nothing to lose other
than supposedly being called irrelevant by some in the White House, thereby immediately negating any claims
of irrelevancy. Howard is in great demand on all the TV talk shows. Rahm is not. Howard is just the more
likable guy, quiet apart from the fact that he is deeply knowledgeable about any subject upon which he agrees
to be interviewed. He is not famous (as far as I can tell) for having wide knowledge on environmental issues,
but he is very much that, and his time at the Davos forum in Switzerland was spent at least as much on that as
it was on his activity concerning Health Care.

There is animosity there, and it is deep-seated. But it is older and deeper than just the recent health care
debate. In 1804, they would have ended up like Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, and Rahm is mean enough to have
come out of any duel like Aaron Burr, so I'm glad this is being fought out on CNN, MSNBC and the blogs.

[green917]

168. I whole-heartedly concur

Their feud does indeed stretch back many years & I could absolutely see Rahm shooting Dr. Dean in the back at about pace # 3. The day Pres. Obama appointed Rahm COS, I knew we weren't going to see any kind of real change we can believe in because Rahm's made a career & a bunch of $ maintaining the status quo.

[shadowknows69]

108. I knew it when he was crucified in 04.

Washington won't ever allow real progressive "change". Hurts the monarchy's chances of maintaining the illusion.

[BlueMTexpat]

109. Dean got me to "believe" once again, when I, as an expatriate

looked at my country with incredulous dismay about what I was reading, hearing and seeing politically from November 2000 to Howard's initial rise in early 2003. I was one of those who was also inspired by Paul Wellstone and watched afar from disbelief at his very tragic destiny ... and yes, I found it to be a convenient outcome for his enemies, so .... . After that and watching how the Republicans and even fellow Democrats then tried to tear down the memory of the truly wonderful human being that Wellstone was, I was entirely depressed until Howard Dean stepped up to the plate.
I watched Howard's progress for several months before I began to believe that he was the real deal. He has never disappointed me and I was finally able to meet him in person, where he is every bit as dynamic, intelligent, impressive, compassionate and personable as I imagined. Was he "ready" to be President in 2004? Well, I don't know whether anyone is actually "ready" to be President of these United States, but I believe that he could have risen to the occasion impressively. But it was not to be. That said, I believe that he has matured politically since, understands the political complexity and issues of the entire country much better now and knows how to strike deals more effectively because he is, ultimately, a realist.
Howard's deliberate omission as Secretary as HHS (which he wanted), after all he had done for President Obama and the Democratic Party in the elections since 2006, was my first major disappointment with the Obama Administration. I believed then ... and I believe now ... that it was a very serious mistake. IMO, Rahm Emanuel has a LOT to answer for because that was purely a get-even move. And Barack didn't even fight it. Sigh.

***************
In those early Dean days, I didn't know about DU (and when I did learn about it was only a lurker). It was Dean for America, later Democracy for America (DFA), and the Deaniacs whom I came to "know" there that saved my sanity (such as it is) for so many years. Those people were, and are, magnificent!

[DFW]

113. Here's a fun anecdote about what you call "Dean's initial rise in early 2003."

I was at dinner with Howard and my immediate superior just after Christmas 2002. He was serious by now about running
for president, although he was still green about how to go about mounting a national campaign. He sensed that the
longing was there for a voice, but he didn't know how to go about getting heard, and he didn't have a dime. He
was emailing back and forth with my top man back in Texas, and he told Howard that he should try making massive
use of the internet, as it was low budget and ripe for a low budget, tech-savvy campaign for recognition. Howard's
reply was something like, "Yeah, you're right, I really need to get with that." Did he ever!! There hasn''t been a
political campaign in America since then that hasn't built upon what Howard started.

[BlueMTexpat]

115. LOVE your story! Thanks. n/t

[nradisic]

110. Very well said...

I concur. Governor Dean IS the voice of the people.

[orbitalman]

118. DFW @ 112 is spot on...

That needed to be included in your initial article. The 'old fashioned' Rahm is like poison to the democratic party and anyone else he is against.

[DFW]

120. There was a reason I left it out

I was originally addressing all the Dean 2012 hopes, and posting as to why it wasn't in the cards.

I am all too familiar with the Rahm Emmanuel dispute, but thought it not an essential part of the
point I wanted to make, and didn't want to put in too many distractions. You are right that it is
pertinent to the current situation, but it wasn't directly part of the story as to why Howard was
not, and will not be president. Rahm may do Obama some good with his organizational skills as Chief
of Staff, but he's not doing his party or his president any good by playing by the old rules, which
only lost us one election after another.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

122. A Scream? !! ....

Please forgive anyone for getting excited.
That incident is, in a nutshell, what is wrong with the political scene.
Good people, getting really excited about DOING SOMETHING, get blasted.

Go, Dragonfli !! You totally rock. Just wish I could rec your comment.

[zinnisking]

130. Dean was the first politician I gave money to

I voted for him in the '04 Wisconsin primaries-the last vote that I casted with gusto (save maybe Feingold in '06).

K and R...er something.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

134. I lost faith in Howard Dean after he toyed with my vote.

Sorry, not a huge Dean fan any more.

[mother earth]

137. I couldn't agree more, DFW, so what are we going to do

about it? We need real action, real activism on this, juding by those fed up here, there's a rallying call. Let's get specific and do something, Howard Dean is absolutely right on this issue. Don't give us a token and call it REFORM.

K & R

(I believe that the stolen election of 2000 started in that primary, as you may recall, Dean was supported by grassroots and had incredible momentum, it wasn't the Dean scream that did him in, it was the same machines that gave Bush his stolen victory, and we've been fighting those same criminals ever since, and they are at the root of it today.)

[DFW]

141. I believe the election of 2004 was going to be stolen no matter who our nominee was

Rove, Blackwell and Cheney weren't going to let happen, no way, no how.

As for "What do we do about it?" Good question. The "rock/hard place" choices we face first are some of toughest:
do we need to support progressive primary candidates, who stand no chance in conservative areas, to run against
conservative Democrats? My solution is actually more drastic, but no one will ever adopt it. I'd use the Justice
Department like Rove did against us. Root out corruption at the highest levels, concentrating on areas that would
hurt Republican money interests. Scandals involving felony white collar crimes by Repupblican incumbents would,
sooner or later, disgust enough of them to have them wither stay home or vote Democratic for the first time in
their lives. A majority of 60 Democratic Senators is only useful if they all vote Democratic on major issues. If
there were 68 Democratic Senators, we wouldn't need Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman. But we'll never get them without
a little outside help. Rove knew how to do this, and although he never got 60 republican Senators, they had rigid
party discipline (a robot needs little discipline, after all). They got their nefarious shit done because they
had no dissent in the ranks. We enjoy no such advantage. So I say concentrate on electoral primaries where we
are represented by a right-leaning incumbent, or a wishy-washy front-runner, convince some fiery young telegenic
Deaniac to run in their stead. I see it as coming down to INSPIRATION. Howard's whole phenomonon in 2003 was the
fact that he inspired people. Obama in 2008 as well, frankly. We need to recruit and train an army of fiery
INSPIRING candidates to run in primaries for Congressional races to give us not only a majority, but an insurmountable
majority. The replace cautious tacticians like Reid and Pelosi, and elect daring people as Senate Majority leader
and Speaker, people like Russ Feingold and Tony Wiener.

The trouble is--that would please those of us who prefer a progressive agenda. There are plenty in the party who
would never vote Republican, but still cringe at the thought of a progressive agenda. Making these people allies--
if it is at all possible in the first place, requires an effore far beyond what I think is even possible. But I
see primaries as the first line of attack, if you want to put it in those terms. Not a third party, but our own.
Remember that old TV show, The Six Million Dollar Man? "We can rebuild him, make him better than he was. We have
the technology." That's how I feel at this point--not a third party to siphon off votes and give robotic Republican
candidates a free ride, but a remake of our own party to the extent that its guiding light is someone like Howard
Dean, and not Harry Reid. The obstacle is that if we destroy the party in the process, no third party will take
its place fast enough to prevent Republicans from capturing the country during the restructuring. So, we are
stuck with the party we have. The good news is that it's not a rock that either stands or gets blasted to bits,
but a mountain of wet clay that is heavy but still able to have it's shape altered with enough effort.

In short, I have no solution to your question, but I can think of a few scenarios that could improve things down
the line. Far from a free ride, though, and the moment we let our anger take the lead over our idealism and/or
pragmatism, we're sunk. Republican hyenas are just waiting to tear apart every candidate we field that come to
their nomination under any kind of a primary cloud.

[mother earth]

146. Probably true that it would have been stolen anyway, but they

were scared shitless of Dean's grassroots $25 donation meteoric rise, I remember it well because that's the man I wanted, that's the man who deserves incredible admiration for speaking up for us.

I'm torn btwn leaving and third party independence, like it or not, this bipartisanship BS of Obama's is what has divided us, it's what has come to be his eternal weakness, or it's evidence of nobody in the WH can fight TPTB...the corruption is staring us in the face, exactly where does it end? Never before have we been so blatantly ruled by corporatist pandering. The gov't no longer reflects the will of the people, it reflects the will of the corporations and the money they pour into candidates.

Without campaign reform and changing the way candidates are financed we will sink in this corruption until it is changed, if it ever gets changed. Otherwise, we better get used to our corporate owners. No matter what little gains we make in employment or salaries, what we pay out to them in all facets of overhead is more and more. This is a class war and we are losing. Rule of law has now become optional, accountability was never in the game plan. That alone has me outraged.

We should be marching in the streets, but we are too busy trying to work to pay for all the things the war lords have deemed are less important than war. It's inexcusable, we have endless money and credit for war and the CIA has unbridled privilege. Is there really anyway to end this insanity? I believe this is the end of this country as we know it, unless we embrace people like Dean, Kucinich and Sanders...3 lone voices & MSM is so entrenched in corporate money, marginalizing all good men is already in the bag for them.

[colsohlibgal]

148. No Real Progressive Need Apply

Just as with Dean, the MSM will take care of anyone they see as a threat to the corporate rule status quo - Kucinich, Feingold got marginalized right out of their runs as well - that's why Feingold did not run in 2008, he knew he'd have been pushed right off the page.

[jonathan_seer]

152. The reason for Dean's WH Exile is Rahm, who hates Dean 4 being right about the 50state strategy

Rahm was a firm believer in Democrats ONLY running in places they had a fair chance of winning in order to be able overwhelm the competition with money.

Rahm felt spending money on races where chances of winning were slim was a waste of hard cash.

Howard saw that strategy as self-defeating, and felt the reason why Dems. weren't competitive nationally was because we weren't even trying to compete nationally in every election.

It takes hard fought campaigns to turn a party's fortunes from "slim to none" to "good chance of winning." It even takes losing a few elections before awareness reaches a level where winning is possible.

The only certain thing about Rahm's belief that money should only be spent on sure thing contests, was Dems. were giving Republicans a lot of seats that they should have to at least fight for.

Rahm was blind to how that strategy had almost turned the Democrats into a regional party by 2004, winning only seats on the Coasts, NE and Chicago, with the rest of the nation basically abandoned as impossible to win areas.

As Democratic chair Dean refused to give into Rahm's demands to only spend party money on races Rahm thought were must wins.

Instead Dean spread the money around and did things like hired a 3 person or so staff to work for the Alaska Democratic party (which quickly bore electoral victory fruit).

Dean felt even nominal opposition was important, because the nature of elections doesn't allow even a sure winner to sit back and ignore competition. They'll spend like crazy to ensure a victory that was theirs anyway. And thus Dean's 50 state initiative was born.

And that's what Republithugs did. Just the appearance of Democratic opposition in supposedly strong red seats made the Republithugs move money from the marque races, and sure enough some of the supposedly "slim to no chance of a Dem. winning" seats quickly turned into Democratic wins in 2006. Apparently people did want a choice.

Ultimately the fact that Dean was proven absolutely correct only infuriated Rahm more, and did so even though it the results empowered Rahm like never before. Rahm said he would have won more seats his way, but that defies logic.

Dean received grudging credit from the establishment for the 2006 results which made Pelosi speaker and took control of the Senate out of Republithug hands.

Rahm however never admitted he was wrong, and never gave Dean any credit.

He showed a side of him that' very small and petty.

He decided to hate Dean for being right, even though it resulted in the 2006 victories AND ULTIMATELY the 2008 victories.

After 2008 Rahm saw to it that Dean was "terminated" as the Dem. Party Chair.

And that's where it stands today.

If it weren't for the petulant revenge no matter what Rahm, perhaps there'd be a place at the table for Dean.

One thing is certain, as long as Rahm gets his way, Dean will not be welcome even to visit Team Obama.

[cadaverdog]

162. I agree with everything you say, and furthermore, I beleve

that to this day, Rahm continues to play Iago to Obama's Hamlet, continuing to whisper in his ear. Certainly Obama hasn't the time to investigate every issue or appointment that comes out of his White House, so he must delegate to his "trusted" Chief-of-Staff to speed the process for his signature; hence we get so many "WTF?" moments from this administration. I mean, how many of us would have voted for Obama if we had known he would completely give the Bushies a pass? Or given the banks a trillion dollars, while only crumbs to the voters who placed him in office? Or refused to sign an agreement to ban the use of land mines, while supporting torture? And give only token support to the health care bill?

The list goes on and on, and always lurking in the shadows is that slimy Chicago politico, Rahm Emanuel.

[yourout]

150. Great thread.

[roamer65]

151. I think its time for a social democratic party in the USA.

Maybe DFA could be the vehicle for its formation.

[ooglymoogly]

153. I am and forever will be a Deaniac....If he ever throws his hat in the

ring again, he will have my full attention and whatever resources I have to give and there are so few I can say that about...Grayson perhaps.

[mother earth]

165. Me too, I was on board with him back in the grassroots day.

He always tells it like it is, and he's representing us even not being in office. How incredible is that? The bums that are in office are selling out and on the corporate payroll while the taxpayers foot the bill both ways.

[BrklynLiberal]

154. Thank goodness for the voices of reason that still scream out...

[vssmith]

156. Simple--Obama is not a liberal

[Political Heretic]

158. Copy and pasted from where?

I agree with you, but the clipping of the sentences indicates cut and paste - did you write it in another editor and paste it here or did you forget to give credit / source what your posting?

[DFW]

174. Copied and pasted?? You gotta be kidding.

I dashed this off late last night after a 15 hour workday and a quick look at the headlines from back in the States.
If my grammar was off, it was because I had just spent 8 hours in a sardine-can packed train from Paris to Köln that
was SRO from Paris all the way to the Rheinland with no food, water, or toilet access. When the first thing I saw
after ten seconds was an unrec, I figured I must have lapsed into complete incoherency, and about the only way
to copy and paste pure incoherency is to copy and paste a Sarah Palin speech--something I do not make a habit of doing.

Although I was speaking Flemish, French and then German all day, my English is still adequate enough to post on my
own without cutting and pasting from other sources without giving credit. My father was president of the Gridiron
Club, for Pete's sake. I know the rules of journalism. My "sources" are either stuff I see Howard say or stuff
he tells me. I don't need to take anyone else's words, although I make a concerted effort to keep personal stuff
about him out of any discussion, whether on a board or in person. Howard has always cherished his private life,
and as one who has a life of my own, I have the deepest respect for his wishes on that score. I stop cold when I
sense any danger of that, and so maybe parts came out disjointed. If that's the case, then mea culpa.

[Political Heretic]

182. You formatting indicates its been pasted into the browser.

It looks like this:

I dashed this off late last night after a 15 hour workday and a quick look at the headlines from back in the States.
If my grammar was off, it was because I had just spent 8 hours in a sardine-can packed train from Paris to Köln that
was SRO from Paris all the way to the Rheinland with no food, water, or toilet access. When the first thing I saw
after ten seconds was an unrec, I figured I must have lapsed into complete incoherency, and about the only way
to copy and paste pure incoherency is to copy and paste a Sarah Palin speech--something I do not make a habit of doing.

Which is what I find usually happens when I paste text into the DU Message box for writing posts. The hard breaks from another formatter get left in and it does not scale with browser size properly.

So that's why I asked - text that has formatting problems like that comes from being pasted from somewhere else. So I was just asking. Figured you could have written it in some other editor then pasted it into DU. But if it was someone else's work, I wanted to know where it came from.

That's all.

[DFW]

184. I wouldn't even know how to do that

It didn't appear that way on my machine, but I never fool with that stuff, so if it appeared that way on your screen,
it was through no deliberate machinations of my own. If I somehow made it happen, it wasn't consciously, and would
be hard-pressed to duplicate it.

[Political Heretic]

188. Okay cool, I apologize if it sounded accusatory.

That's not how I felt when writing. I just wanted to know if there was some link that I could grab, etc.

[totodeinhere]

163. Maybe the country and Democrats will be so mad by 2012 that it will be different.

I am ready willing and able to work my ass off for Dean and contribute to his campaign if he decides to run in 2012, and I suspect that a lot of others at DU will as well. I am not ready yet to give up on this country.

Dean in 2012!!

On edit. Dean/Kucinich in 2012.

[EFerrari]

166. I know this is a minuscule minority opinion

but I'm glad Howard Dean never had to deal with that sewer we call our executive office. And, btw, my condolences to Obama for being up to his eyeballs.

And I still wish Dean would launch a think tank because that's something I could really get behind. Not like a groupie or a stalker but like putting your head down and working problems.

[girl_interrupted]

169. K&R

[DFW]

186. Sorry about the late reply to this.

I'm sure Howard has been approached by a dozen of them, and I doubt he has the time or the money to start one of his own.
However, I will bring up the subject with him, as I think your idea is worth bringing up with him. We both know and like
Norm Ornstein of AEI, but I doubt Howard would want to go with a right-leaning outfit, even if Norm's presence there would
mitigate things somewhat.

[Uncle Joe]

170. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, DFW.:thumbsup:

[DFW]

176. It was composed at haste, reflected at leisure

Yesterday, I got up at 5 AM in Brussels, was in conference in Paris by 9, on my back to Germany by 3:30, and
then stuck in a snow-bound train for six hours on a trip designed for three, didn't even get back to my
German house until 11 PM. My wife reheated up some chicken chili, I made a cup of tea, and turned on the
laptop. Saw some stuff about Howard, and just tossed out my own thoughts. Apparently, they didn't come off
too well to all, as there has been some negative flak (them's the breaks). But thanks for your vote of confidence!

[Canuckistanian]

175. Dean has become the de facto "loyal opposition"

The Republicans are practically irrelevant. You KNOW how they're going to vote. They're like a permanent obstruction in the road or a big rock in a sea channel. You can avoid them, if you steer carefully.

But it's DEAN who's pointing our the faults, putting the pressure on and actually LEADING popular opinion.

I'm sure it's not where he wants to be, but he's now the only credible critic of the President's HCR strategy.

[DFW]

177. It's not where he wanted to be

He would much preferred to be leading the cheering throng of Democrats celebrating the passage of a MUCH stronger
and people-friendly bill--THAT'S where he wanted to be at this point. But his opposition is indeed loyal, as opposed
to that of that "other" party that still fields 40 nut cases in the Senate. They are like a wounded hyena: maybe
not in a great position, but cornered and very very mean.

[Quantess]

183. too late to recommend.

[DFW]

185. That's not important

It wasn't too late to say so :-)

[Egnever]

187. Howard blew his shot at the presidency on Chris Mathews show.

He said something to the effect that if elected president he would break up the monopoly corporations.

I knew the second he said it he was done and sure enough a week latter we got the scream.

Love him still. Don't agree that this bill should have been killed but his loud voice on it may have strengthened it in the last days.


Keep fighting Howard!