AP - "Obama brokers a climate deal, doesn't satisfy all"

[TomCADem]

If this was football, I think most people would rather have President Obama throw the Hail Mary pass and go for the TD on fourth down. I think this three yards and cloud of dust is starting to grate on his former supporters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-brokers-a-climate-deal-apf-480955420.html?x=0

COPENHAGEN (AP) -- Two years of laborious negotiations on a climate agreement ended Friday with a political deal brokered by President Barack Obama with China and other emerging powers but denounced by poor countries because it was nonbinding and set no overall target for curbing greenhouse gas emissions.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a leading proponent of strong action to confront global warming, gave the Copenhagen Accord grudging acceptance but said she had "mixed feelings" about the outcome and called it only a first step.

Obama's day of frenetic diplomacy produced a three-page document promising $30 billion in emergency aid in the next three years and a goal of channeling $100 billion a year by 2020 to developing countries with no guarantees.

The five-nation agreement includes a method for verifying reductions of heat-trapping gases -- a key demand by Washington, because China has resisted international efforts to monitor its actions.

The agreement, which also includes India, South Africa and Brazil, requires industrial countries to list their individual targets and developing countries to list the actions they will take to cut global warming pollution by specific amounts. Obama called that an "unprecedented breakthrough."

"We have come a long way, but we have much further to go," he said.

If the countries had waited to reach a full, binding agreement, "then we wouldn't make any progress," Obama said. In that case, he said, "there might be such frustration and cynicism that rather than taking one step forward, we ended up taking two steps back."

[dbonds]

1. Where does this money come from?

Any money we have would be borrowed from China in the first place.

[provis99]

6. if you read carefully, they did not say where the money was coming from

Nor did they say the US is giving any of this money; it isn't. Apparently, Obama expects billions of dollars to magically appear, whereupon it will be given to the third world.

[EFerrari]

10. It will be given to the third world to nations that fall in line.

Don't forget that part.

[liberalmuse]

2. Nothing this man does will 'satisfy'.

He's pretty much fucked no matter what he does, because, God forbid, he's human.

[EFerrari]

12. I know Obama is getting bashed fairly and unfairly right now.

That's true and I don't like it either.

But the fact is, he didn't broker anything. He's not Zorro. His admin announced before the summit that we wouldn't sign diddly and then Hillary Clinton shows up to remind the third world that they better sign onto our cr@ppy plan if they want our aid.

Sure, that's human. It's also horrible policy on the climate crisis.

And, Obama was significantly disrespected by China and by India, Brazil and who knows who else at this thing. China sent a low level guy to talk to him. Then, they put together a meeting without even telling him.

But the thing is, what does he expect? He already signalled he wouldn't budge, why should he be respected and included if he has nothing to add?

ARgh. What a week.

[kenny blankenship]

3. It was a failure, but that isn't all our fault.

Granted we were the bad guy for 12 long years and that hasn't helped our position. But people in developing economies can be just as pignorant and greedy as US republicans. And there isn't a thing we can do about that.

[TomCADem]

4. Here's My Question - China As A Developing Country?

China is described in numerous articles as a developing country. Really? China is one of the top consumers of fossil fuels. It is funding the U.S.'s deficit spending. It hosted the most expensive Olympics of all-time. Yet, China still gets to avoid responsibility as a "developing country"?

Shoot, if China is a developing country, does that mean the U.S. and most every other country is third world?

Finally, I disagree that the talks were a failure. Failure is no agreement, and everyone denying climate change. Heck, look at DU. Even many "liberals" are pushing e-mail gate as a reason for questioning climate change. We are talking DU, not Freeperville.

Against this back drop, you have to consider the progress a great success.

[kenny blankenship]

5. China is a developing economy but it has already reached TOP of the pile in CO2 emissions

they cannot have it the old way where they were under no imperative to curb emissions. Their economic development level is in a class by itself. They have a population equal to ours 300 million living in a developed highly industrialized modern economy - and they also still have a BILLION people living a third world standard in the rural interior of the country. There's no classifying that next to other countries. But I go by carbon levels. The climate doesn't give a damn if three quarters of your people live in the 15th century and one quarter are burning tons of coal and diesel in their daily lives at 21st century rate. It doesn't care what's "fair". It responds to net levels of CO2 and that's the long and short of it. China has to rein it in fast or we're all fucked, them included. And so do we. If they wait until all their people are living at a "developed" nation standard before they start to care about the environment and global warming, they'll never get there because the climate chaos will take civilization down first.

It's an impossible situation. We have no credibility. The Chinese have zero interest in fru fru stuff like climate change.

[FarCenter]

7. China's emissions per capita is less than 1/3 that of the US

US citizens consume energy at over 10 KWatts.

We are quite a bit on the high side. In effect, we are 5% of the global population consuming nearly 25% of the energy.

All the "developing countries", like China, India, all of the middle east, Africa, southeast Asia, etc., will want to increase their per capita use of carbon based fuels to catch up economically.

[kenny blankenship]

8. Like I said the environment doesn't care about "fair". It cares about net atmospheric CO2

Fairness arguments in the face of catastrophe are infantile.

[FarCenter]

9. The over 5 billion people who are emitting at the China level or less will want their fair share

Besides, they have also pointed out that the United States is the largest emitter who has already put the largest amount of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere already, and thus the share of the United States should be less than average per capita in the future.

[kenny blankenship]

19. Well then we're all cooked.

[EFerrari]

13. The agreement has no teeth and it's inadequate to address climate change.

Otherwise, it's a resounding success.

[backscatter712]

11. I'm surprised we got an agreement at all.

So I'll call this a slight win - crappy treaties can be built upon later...

[WT Fuheck]

14. sounds kinda like the regulation of Wall Street.

"nonbinding and set no overall target," verification, but "no enforcement."

Doesn't "unprecedented breakthrough" sound like hyperbole?

He flies in, has a big, high-profile meeting, flies back out ... the world needs dramatic leadership on this issue. WTF, it's probably too late already anyway.

[dysfunctional press]

15. "...doesn't satisfy all" -that's kind of getting to be his specialty...

except that in most cases- instead of 'all', it would say: 'anybody but himself. and maybe rahm emmanuel. '

[JCMach1]

16. Sounds like what countries were doing on their own already

:(

i.e. almost worthless

[JCMach1]

17. The reviews are in on the deal! See below

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/un-climate-conference-in-denmark-1.555448!image/332827463.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_310/332827463.jpg

[sandnsea]

18. League of Conservation Voters Praise Climate Deal

ask for help getting a bill passed in Congress.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7269161