Copenhagen is an absolute fucking disaster

[Canuckistanian]

The final draft is still being written, but it looks like a total WASTE of time.

There are no clearly defined targets. EVERYTHING is voluntary. Developing countries are furious. The US again failed to show leadership.

And Canada, my country, was judged as one of the WORST offenders for total inaction and the insistence on developing the oilsands petroleum hellhole.

Already, environmental groups are calling it "Copenfailure".

I can't tell you how bitterly disappointed I am. I weep for humanity.

[Deja Q]

1. Even developed countries are furious.

Aren't people fed up with being furious?

(and why can't we work toward a positive future together... that's what people are fed up over. Everything's one big jarring blur.)

[yourout]

2. They are furious about it.

[Canuckistanian]

4. The "people" don't seem to matter

Except if you're a person on the board of directors of an oil company or someone they bought out.

[villager]

3. In the eyes of the Panglossians, your OP is a sin.... hence the unrec, I guess...

That doesn't stop the OP from being right, on the other hand...

[Canuckistanian]

5. Unrecs don't bother me tonight

It's easy to pay someone to disrupt a discussion board.

Hell, it's cheaper than buying your average politician.

[leftstreet]

6. 'Copenfailure' - good description

:cry:

[Canuckistanian]

24. Good cartoon

Thanks.

[Odin2005]

60. Great toon!

That pretty much sums it up!

[emilyg]

67. Good one.

[dorkulon]

85. I'd go with "Nopenhagen"

[Raksha]

92. That cartoon says it all! n't

[Fumesucker]

7. K&R for speaking the truth..

[Why Syzygy]

8. Oh no!

Just wait and see. We'll get a new 2% VAT or sales tax! The IMF bank will be pleased!

Isn't that what really matters?

[Canuckistanian]

10. WTF are you talking about?

NOTHING is going to happen. Did you not get the "gist" of my message?

Carry on with your life, citizen. There's a sale on Hummers this week! Consume! Nothing's wrong!

[Why Syzygy]

38. Global tax

http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=%22global+tax%22

And

Somewhat more successfully, it spelt out some details for how poor countries should be financially aided to shore up their defences against rising seas, water stress, floods and storms.

Rich countries pledged to commit 30 billion dollars in "short-track" finance for the 2010-2012 period, including 11 billion from Japan, 10.6 billion from the European Union and 3.6 billion dollars from the United States.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jmJETxZwV2JFB49zmEvTgHgfw4kA

[crazyjoe]

49. the thing i find comical is some people believe if we

give poor countries "billions of dollars to shore up their defenses against rising seas, water stress, floods and storms" that they will actually spend the money on that.
So the people will be starving and live in dirt huts, but they will be protected from global warming.
sorry folks, this is a joke

[polly7]

50. It is a sick joke.

How embarrasing.

[Vincardog]

69. The funny thing is to think that a billion dollars could do anything against

"rising seas, water stress, floods and storms".

[Why Syzygy]

72. Yeppers.

For some cynical reason I suspect the money exchangers (from us to 'them' (IMF)) stand to profit more than any poor people ever will.

[northernlights]

94. now now you forgot they're going to limit the temperature rise to 2 degrees C

so everything will be alright. Soon as earth gets the memo...

[Hissyspit]

9. We're screwed.

No surprise.

[slackmaster]

56. How so?

Please explain your comment.

[Hissyspit]

68. No one's going to do what needs to be done.

[slackmaster]

100. Peoples' inability to come to an agreement to stave off AGW changes what needs to be done.

What needs to be done now is to prepare for whatever is going to happen.

[Gregorian]

11. Give it a little time. When snorkle sales go up, people will begin to get serious.

How much is the New Orleans price tag for repairs? How many more of them will we experience, and how many more will the planet see?

Snorkels, I tell ya.



By the way, in case anyone is interested, humans are putting out 100 times the CO2 output of all volcanoes on the planet right now.

[Canuckistanian]

12. I'm in.

What's a good snorkel share price these days? I don't want to buy in too early.

[Gregorian]

22. Well, you've got snorkels for your ATV, snorkels for your Land Rover,

and your regular old school face snorkel. Foldable snorkels. Dry snorkels. Semi dry snorkels. There's a wide range of snorkels to choose from. I'd say that snorkel investing could take some serious research. You might even need to enlist the services of a snorkel investment agency.





Take a look at this baby!-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLARIS-RANGER-RZR-SNORKEL-KIT-08-NO-BRITTLE-ABS_W0QQitemZ190358015557QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_ATV_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c5238ce45

Great for chasing fish, I guess. WTF is wrong with people? I guess just hanging out with a fishing pole is too boring?

[Canuckistanian]

25. Call me sometime. We'll do lunch.

Thanks for the LOL. I'm NOT in a good mood right now.

[Gregorian]

27. Aw. It's ok.

Neither am I. It's dark early, and things aren't going as we had hoped. I'm sitting in my rv trailer for the second year, as of the 25th of December.

I saw The Treasure of the Sierra Madre for the first time the other night. It really donned on me that we came into this world with nothing, and we'll leave with nothing. Well, except for our experiences. I don't laugh a lot. But maybe that's what it's all about.

Edit- I did see some of the summit talks. And even though the big countries don't want to take big steps to curb emissions, the rest of the world is very serious. I think of this crisis as the beginning of the cooperation of the countries of the world. I think there are things to be happy about. And I'm one who is not happy at all. In fact I'm raging mad about it. And now I'm off to bed. Cheers.

[Canuckistanian]

29. Ah, good movie

I like Humphrey Bogart movies. Actually, I like MOST movies from that era. It seemed like a simpler time.

Yeah, we can't really complain about our lifestyles. But I fear our children might - pretty soon.

[CrispyQ]

53. I want a bong snorkle.

With all that water, a pipe or joint just won't do!

:smoke:

[Jackpine Radical]

83. Wow, man, I can see it now:

The SCUBONG! 3000 psi of air pressure oughtta give you one hell of a toke. The only problem I see is keeping it lit at 90 feet under water.

[pundaint]

87. Can we eat them when the crops fail?

[Jamastiene]

13. We are so screwed. n/t

[ThomCat]

14. Voluntary Fucking Targets!

Which means that none of the damned targets will be met anyway because nobody has to meet them. :grr:

What a fucking bad Joke.

It really sucks that there really isn't any way to hold politicians and government lackies accountable for the bullshit, incompetence, and lack of progress they force all of us to live with.

It is enough to make me really wish there was a God sometimes, and that he or she might really answer just prayers, if only so that there might be a way for all the powerless people of the world to get real justice in the end.

It's an appealing fantasy. Having to live in a world where the Powerful thrive and profit while never taking any responsibility for solving the problems they create is endlessly galling. :(

[Canuckistanian]

17. They can't even agree on an extension to Kyoto

And we all know what a big success THAT was.

[mullard12ax7]

15. I had to tune into Russian and French TV just to hear news about it

The U.S. whore media is all upset over a golfer when the entire planets future is on the line.

[Canuckistanian]

18. You're kidding

The US media isn't even reporting this?

[JoeyT]

45. Not that I've seen.

Mostly they've been reporting their usual parade of fluff pieces and celebrity interest crap.

[EFerrari]

19. Amy Goodman has been reporting it every day. Go to her site

and if you can stream, you can see the archive. If you can't stream, she usually has transcript.

www.democracynow. org

[EmeraldCityGrl]

33. This is frightening.

We are as isolated globally as the old Soviet Union, Cuba, Belarus etc. only it's self-imposed.
American's have been indoctrinated for so long to believe they are the center of the universe,
they no longer have the natural curiosity to wonder about the world outside of our borders.

I really don't know how the rest of the world puts up with us.

[CrispyQ]

54. "I really don't know how the rest of the world puts up with us."

I've wondered that for a long time. I wonder when the rest of the world is going to spank our spoiled brat ass & send us to our room for a seriously overdue, long time out.

[Kievan Rus]

98. No shock. They treated Jacko's death like it was 9/11

[Gwendolyn]

16. Yes, it's very depressing! And absolutely mind boggling how Canada...

... has become such an environmental villain.

[Canuckistanian]

20. It's fast becoming our national shame

We used to be leaders in environmental issues. We've now become the main problem.

What makes it hard is that in terms of public opinion, we're totally in agreement with major changes.

Unfortunately, it's our fucking Conservative Harper government that's calling the shots right now.

God, I hate them.

[polly7]

51. So do I.

He did tell us when he was through we wouldn't recognize Canada ........ that's probably the only truthful thing he's said since he got in.

[Posteritatis]

71. That's what happens when our national government consists of Alberta

They're happy with a primary resource industry, so they want the country to be nothing but that.

[EFerrari]

21. We're so screwed.

:(

[snagglepuss]

23. I am so effing angry with Harper, the effing SOB. I am also pissed that

activists named its award "fossil". Why not name it something like "the country that is monumently fucking the environment", or "the country that should be universally boycotted". Fossil Award is effing lame. At least if the award was truly biting name it may have caused the SOB some embarassment in Canada, as it stands the award is just a momumental waste and if anything makes a joke out of Harper's criminal neglect.:mad: .:mad:.:mad:.:mad:.:mad:

[Canuckistanian]

26. Yeah, I saw that tonight

He deserved the award. But he has no shame, it won't affect him in the least.

It's a disease.

[Meldread]

28. I called it - anyone who was honest knew it'd be a total failure from the very beginning.

We are -NEVER- going to get world nations to agree on anything. Governments are interested in growing their businesses, and it's in the interest of business to pollute. Thus, governments are representing not what's good for the Earth, but rather, what's good for their businesses. The countries most up in arms about Climate Change are those who are the most directly impacted by it.

The only way to solve Climate Change is to empower individuals to handle it on a local level. When you have a polluter, you need to be able to take them to Court and sue them. They need to be required to pay restitution for the damages they cause or cease causing damage. This acts effectively like a tax on polluters, forcing them to reduce their pollution to pay less "taxes", encourages them to invest in cleaner technologies, the rising energy prices encourage individual consumers to invest in things like solar and wind... and the rise in energy prices also puts dirty technology on par with clean and renewable technology, eventually allowing the clean and renewable technology to overtake the dirty technology market.

Screw other nations by implementing a pollution tax on all imported goods. This forces China, India, and developing nations to follow the same path as the United States. The cleaner offending nations become, the more easily and more desirable their goods become on the world market.

Copenhagen was destined to fail before it even started. It wasn't even worth the money to fuel up Air Force One.

[Gregorian]

30. Big changes would require sacrifices nobody is willing to make.

Anyone who understands the full extent of carbon emissions by modern societies knows that we cannot make a dent in emissions without serious sacrifices. And one of those is untouchable. Unmentionable. No one will even discuss it. Population must decrease. That is first and foremost. And it most likely wasn't even mentioned at the summit.

We're in deep trouble. I posted engine manufacturing plant videos from World War 2 factories some time ago. Just that period of our history caused monstrous emissions. The Berlin airlift? It had to be done. But the emissions? Good god! A billion gallons of fuel for the Iraq war a year ago, was what I calculated.

Every trip to the market in 1950. Every yo-yo ever produced. Every movie production crew and transportation. Every dental device being manufactured and transported. Every cubic yard of cement mined and refined.

It's mind boggling. And if the population were small enough it wouldn't be overwhelming the planet. But in combination it's the end of the ecosystem.

I can't even communicate it. But as long as we're burning fuel to do stuff for us, and this many of us are doing it, then we're in trouble. And two billion people are just joining the club. It's going to get worse before anything happens to make it better. I don't have much hope.

[Meldread]

34. Population is actually rather easy to solve.

And I don't mean going the China route, either.

First of all, as standard of living increases, the number of children decreases. There is a reason that some of the poorest countries in the world have the highest number of children. It's because they're required for labor. When children are no longer required for labor, then people have fewer children. Fewer mouths to feed, more money for yourself instead of spending on the child, etc. It also frees children from factories and farm fields to get an education, further raising the standard of living for the next generation after them.

One of the major reasons some nations (though not all) remain poor is government corruption. This is a major issue in many African Nations. In order to start a business in some places, you need to bribe like ten different people. Those bribes (effectively a tax) reduces the number of workers you can hire, which in turn reduces the number of people who can produce for the economy, which in turn reduces the number of consumers, which in turn reduces the power of the economy overall.

The Earth can sustain more people, though. A lot more. If we can find a way to modify our urban way of life so that it is emissions free, we can sustain billions more. We'll just all be packed in like sardines. Rethinking urbanization ranges from recycling waste water rather than dumping it, to investing in things like vertical farming (think skyscraper Green Houses that produce food year round, regardless of climate or weather). Something like vertical farming can make one acre of land as productive as nine to ten acres of land. The higher you can build, the more productive it becomes.

Also, as more people move to the urban areas shared transportation systems become more economically efficient and even necessary. I think at this moment in time, we have (or very soon will have) more people living in urban areas than in rural areas for the first time in the planet's history.

As for energy... that's a combination of many different technologies and energy efficiency. The key for solving the energy issue is to make our current energy methods (coal for example) undesirable. It then creates market forces that encourage investment into new technologies - some of which we haven't even dreamed of.... one possible future technology would be to invest in harvesting H3 from the Moon. Check out more about H3 http://www.thespacereview.com/article/536/1">here.

To backtrack and touch on population issues more directly, there are some methods to make having children less desirable. One would be changing how some of our tax systems work. For example, instead of taxing everyone for public education, you'd have an education tax for people with children. It could be made progressive slightly by putting a cap on how much of ones income it would require. This fee would most likely be a good thing, in the sense that it's a noticeable fee, and would cause parents to be more interested and actively involved in their child's education.

This tax would discourage people from having children, and those who want children may have only one instead of two, three, or more.

Modifying how Welfare works when it comes to children is another method. Keep in mind the poorer you are the more children you generally have. In some states the Welfare system grants benefits based upon the number of children. This effectively creates a reward system to have additional children.

In any system that is designed to bring down the population, you'll inevitably need to look at the incentives to having children vs the disincentives. You'll want to create a system where the cons out weigh the pros.

[Gregorian]

57. Governments promote increasing population.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, especially as I have written huge property tax checks. I have no children, and I drive very very little. I have found myself in a rage over this, since I am the one who is getting almost nothing for my money, and yet subsidizing those who just want to have a good time breeding. And I know property taxes don't go toward roads. Or at least I think that's the case. But my point still stands. Right now there are countries like Russia and France that are frantic about their low birth rates.

I don't have enough years to make up for my grave disappointment. Humans are stupid. This is a subject I should just avoid. I cannot tolerate what has happened. I just spent 20 years trying to find a home in a place that for all of eternity up until those last 20 years was pristine. Now it's cars, jet noise, houses. So it's personal with me. The planet can go to hell for all I care. I just wanted a place to sit and hear the silence.

People are so poor now they don't even know what they're missing. I have met very few people in my life who have experienced silence. And fewer who think it's something good. I just can't believe the state of affairs of this planet and this specie.

And I've supposedly got it made. Retired at 50, own my own timber ranch in a gorgeous place. I'd check out any time. I'm sick of it. Sick of having to watch this mess.


Well, now you know who I am. I feel like apologizing.

[Lorien]

76. The earth absolutely can't sustain the population it has NOW

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/07/research.waste

[leftstreet]

41. ...and my broccoli comes from Ecuador

Excellent post, and I'd like to see those WWII factory videos sometime if you still have the links.

But about my broccoli...

It was one of those ah-ha! moments for me when I mindlessly noticed the 'product of Ecuador' printed on my $1.50 bag of frozen broccoli. No big deal, trade agreements, whatever, Ecuadorian farmers need work too....wait, what? What staggering amounts of planet killing energy and resources went into packaging/shipping/containing/transporting that bag of broccoli from Ecuador to my freezer in WA state? And how did the wizard behind the screen manage to do it all for a mere $1.50 on my end?

[Gregorian]

65. Yes. I wish more people saw things as they are.

It almost takes a degree in engineering to know what is involved. I think people actually don't know what goes on behind that duplex outlet in their wall. I grew up knowing.

I proposed putting a petroleum units label on items for sale. For groceries it would take a lot of work. Grapes, prawns, milk. How far was it transported.

I know that video came from a machinists forum I hang out on. I looked on Youtube and didn't find it. And the archives section of DU is down right now. So I'll just pass on the forum Antique machinery section. Although you may have to be a member to see posts. I don't know.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/forumdisplay.php/antique-machinery-and-history-19.html

I personally think we're so far beyond any returning point it's essentially over. I mean between population and agri business, we've killed or lost so much diversity through monoculture farming that who knows where it's headed.

I really can't smile any more. All the while people are just having the times of their lives. I ride a bike and run into people who think everything is just dandy and fine. And I look over and see a clearcut forest right next to us. I just don't understand how people can be so blind. Actually I do. We've left nature. And understandably so. Nature is ruthless. My conclusion is that the human race is the animal that didn't know when to stop. We had it all, but went too far. Population is insidious. My grandmother saw the first horseless carriage, and she had 11 children. She never saw the consequences. And that's why we need more awareness of this piece of the equation.

Oh, enough of this. I feel odd posting my deepest thoughts. Especially since most people dismiss it as negativity. It hurts.

[Lorien]

75. Yep, and therein is the reason I don't have kids

1). They would have no future, or at best a hellish one

and 2). The planet can't handle any more, period.

It's past time that governments were honest with the people. I doubt that will ever happen.

[Gregorian]

93. My best friend had a child.

This is one of the most incredible people on earth. I am not exaggerating. It would take quite a while to explain. But I've never known anyone who can sum up something with such brevity. Or someone with such intense common sense. I've got a close friend who made millions over the last couple of decades. Evidently he approached my friend with a comment about how he thinks Glen Beck is really something. My best friend had never heard of him. So he turned on tv and took one look, and wrote back that Beck is one of the world's worst ten people. Although I guess that doesn't take genius to figure out.

So all of growing up my friend and I have discussed world population. Two kids at an early age, even. Events have led up to him having a child. His girlfriends father and brother both committed suicide. I never thought he'd marry. But I think among other things he ended up married to her. I got a call from him a while later. An apologetic sounding voice. They had a child. Sorry, I didn't mean to blab on and on like this. But he named his kid Noah. It's just the kind of thing he'd do. Noah, because he may end up living through a time that could require another Noah. It sounds kind of weird. But he's one of the few people I've ever known who really should have a child. We'll see how the brat turns out.

I won't have children either. And I'm always so appreciative, no, respectful of those who actually think and decide to avoid it. I know you've told me before. I remember. It means a lot to me to hear. Like one in a million people. I think you wanted children, which is only natural. I don't. So I'm the weird one. Haha. But that makes you even more special.

It would be nice if there were common sense in the world. I have been thinking how nice it would be to have a Department of Common Sense. But I'm dreaming. Dreaming of a world that is bigger and better than greed.

You know, it's sad that our generation is having to see these limits. Up until now, all of human kind has been able to live out their lives without any limits. That's not really an accurate picture of life. Up until now women couldn't vote, and blacks weren't full people. But people never had to think about the end of life as we know it.

I hope we find peace in all of this.

[Canuckistanian]

31. Yup.

I don't know why I deluded myself, thinking that this would be some sort of breakthrough.

The one thing I have hope for is that oil won't last long. As GliderGuider (another Canadian DUer) says, oil is a "one-time gift". Now that we've blown it, we'd better start looking for OTHER sources of energy if we hope to advance beyond 40 years from now.

Let's hope we can survive as a species before our planet becomes unliveable for humans.

[Meldread]

36. Oil is only part of the problem.

However, you are correct in that it is inevitable for us to move away from resources that are non-renewable. Eventually the non-renewable stuff will just run out. The downside of that is that by the time most of it runs out we're already in a very bad place with Climate Change.

I'm not worried about the planet becoming unlivable for humans, at least not in the developed nations. Things can become VERY difficult, and result in radically changing the way we live, but I believe technology will eventually allow us to pull through the worst. It's the people in the developing and underdeveloped nations that will suffer the most. By far. The poor always suffer more than the rich.

For example, even if the United States started to look more and more like it does out West (deserts and the like), we'd still pull through. Things like vertical farming will make climate, season, and the like irrelevant. We'd lose much of our fresh water, but that would only demand that we invest heavily into mega-desalination plants.

We can afford to do all of that and much more in the United States. Poor nations? Not so much. War, disease, and wide spread starvation is their fate.

What I think will be most interesting to observe will be China's reaction. It's somewhere in the middle. It's very wealthy, has the most population of any nation in the world, and yet at the same time most of that population is very poor. If I'm willing to place a bet, I see the population in China declining rapidly. Wide spread starvation and riots will result in the beginning, and China will crack down by killing the rural populace to avoid the collapse of the government. The more urban populations (which are wealthier) will most likely experience a similar fate to people here in the United States.

Here in the United States, our worst experiences will come from migration. As sea levels rise, people move further from the coastal areas. As the land itself begins to change, it will be interesting to see what areas are rewarded and which are punished. After all, Climate Change won't be bad -everywhere-. In some places, it will actually be a boon.

I'm thinking Canada might see some benefits, as it becomes warmer, it could potentially become a breadbasket.

[diane in sf]

78. the problem is that coal won't run out fast enough

[Odin2005]

63. +1

[G_j]

32. It's the Protesters Who Offer the Best Hope for Our Planet

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/16-5

Published on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 by The Independent/UK

It's the Protesters Who Offer the Best Hope for Our Planet

They've ensured the corporate lobbyists punching holes in the deal are shamed

by Johann Hari

At first glance, the Copenhagen climate summit seems like a Salvador Dali dreamscape. I just saw Archbishop Desmond Tutu being followed by a swarm of Japanese students who were dressed as aliens and carrying signs saying "Take Me To Your Leader" and "Is Your Species Crazy?". Before that, a group of angry black-clad teenage protesters who were carrying spray cans started quoting statistics to me about how much carbon dioxide the atmosphere can safely absorb. (It's 350 parts per million they pointed out, before sucking their teeth.) Before that, I saw a couple in a pantomime cow costume being attacked by the police, who accused them of throwing stones with their hooves.

But the surrealism runs deeper and darker than this. Inside the Bella Centre, the rich world's leaders are defiantly ignoring their scientists and refusing to sign a deal that will prevent our climate from being dramatically destabilised. The scientific consensus shows the rich world needs to cut 40 per cent of our emissions of warming gases from 1990 levels by 2020 if we're going to have even a 50-50 chance of staying this side of the Point of No Return, when the Earth's natural processes start to break down and warming becomes unstoppable. Yet the scientists at Climate Analytics calculate our governments are offering a dismal 8-12 per cent cut – and once you factor in all the loopholes and accounting tricks, it becomes a net increase of four per cent.

Privately, government negotiators admit there's no way the negotiations will end with the deal scientists say is necessary for our safety. Indeed, it looks possible that this conference won't deepen and broaden the Kyoto framework, but cripple it. Kyoto established a legally binding international framework to measure and reduce emissions. The cuts it required were too small, and the sanctions for breaking it were pitifully weak – but it was a start. Kyoto's current phase expires in 2012, but the treaty's authors believed its architecture would be retained and intensified after that. The developing countries assumed that's what they were here to do. But the US is proposing to simply ditch the Kyoto infrastructure – won over decades of long negotiations – and replace it with an even weaker voluntary deal. In their proposal, every country will announce cuts and stick to them out of the goodness of their hearts. No penalties, no enforcement.

So at the centre of this summit is a proposition stranger than any number of arrested cows or Nasa-quoting hoodies: we're playing Russian roulette with the climate, and our most powerful governments are filling the barrels with extra bullets, one by one.

..more...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/18

Published on Friday, December 18, 2009 by The Nation

The Courage to Say No
by Naomi Klein

Copenhagen

On the ninth day of the Copenhagen climate summit, Africa was sacrificed. The position of the G-77 negotiating bloc, including African states, had been clear: a 2 degree Celsius increase in average global temperatures translates into a 3-3.5 degree increase in Africa.

That means, according to the Pan African Climate Justice Alliance, "an additional 55 million people could be at risk from hunger" and "water stress could affect between 350 and 600 million more people." Archbishop Desmond Tutu puts the stakes like this: "We are facing impending disaster on a monstrous scale.... A global goal of about 2 degrees C is to condemn Africa to incineration and no modern development."

And yet that is precisely what Ethiopia's prime minister, Meles Zenawi, proposed to do when he stopped off in Paris on his way to Copenhagen: standing with President Nicolas Sarkozy, and claiming to speak on behalf of all of Africa (he is the head of the African climate-negotiating group), he unveiled a plan that includes the dreaded 2 degree increase and offers developing countries just $10 billion a year to help pay for everything climate related, from sea walls to malaria treatment to fighting deforestation.

It's hard to believe this is the same man who only three months ago was saying this: "We will use our numbers to delegitimize any agreement that is not consistent with our minimal position.... If need be, we are prepared to walk out of any negotiations that threaten to be another rape of our continent.... What we are not prepared to live with is global warming above the minimum avoidable level."

And this: "We will participate in the upcoming negotiations not as supplicants pleading for our case but as negotiators defending our views and interests."

..more..

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/16-0


Published on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 by TruthDig.com

Copenhagen Climate Summit: The Empire’s New Clothes
by Amy Goodman

Denmark is the home of renowned children’s author Hans Christian Andersen. Copenhagen is dotted with historical spots where Andersen lived and wrote. “The Little Mermaid” was one of his most famous tales, published in 1837, along with “The Emperor’s New Clothes.”

As the United Nations’ climate summit, called “COP 15,” enters its final week, with more than 100 world leaders arriving amid growing protests, the notion that a binding agreement will come from this conference looks more and more like a fairy tale.

The reality is harsher. Negotiations have repeatedly broken down, with divisions between the global North, or industrialized countries, and the global South. Leading the North is the United States, the world’s greatest polluter, historically, and a leader in per capita carbon emissions. Among the Southern nations are several groupings, including the least-developed countries, or LDCs; African nations; and nations from AOSIS, the Alliance of Small Island States. These are places where millions live on the edge, directly impacted by climate change, dealing with the effects, from cyclones and droughts to erosion and floods. Tuvalu, near Fiji, and other island nations, for example, are concerned that rising sea levels will wipe their countries off the map.

New conceptions of the crisis are emerging at COP 15. People are speaking of climate justice, climate debt and climate refugees. Indian scientist and activist Vandana Shiva was among those who addressed a climate justice rally of 100,000 Saturday in Copenhagen. Afterward, I asked her to respond to U.S. climate negotiator Jonathan Pershing, who said the Obama administration is willing to pay its fair share, but added that donors “don’t have unlimited largesse to disburse.” Shiva responded, “I think it’s time for the U.S. to stop seeing itself as a donor and recognize itself as a polluter, a polluter who must pay. ... This is not about charity. This is about justice.”

Shiva went on: “A climate refugee is someone who has been uprooted from their home, from their livelihoods, because of climate instability. It could be people who’ve had to leave their agriculture because of extended drought. It could be communities in the Himalayas who are having to leave their villages, either because flash floods are washing out their villages or because streams are disappearing.”

..more..

[CrispyQ]

35. Hey! Twenty House members had a nice pre-Christmas vacation, so quit your bitching.

Do I need this? :sarcasm:


“The House of Representatives has taken historic action to address the climate crisis and transition our country to a clean energy economy,” Pelosi said. “We see Copenhagen as a meeting about job creation – how do we move forward to create millions of clean energy jobs and new technologies to keep America number one. We are going to send a message of support for the Obama Administration’s efforts and we bring with us the strong commitment of the Congress to take action, as the House of Representatives did in June.”

Madame Speaker lacks credibility after claiming that she was going to drain the swamp & then immediately took impeachment off the table.

[JCMach1]

37. Here's the latest review

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/un-climate-conference-in-denmark-1.555448!image/332827463.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_310/332827463.jpg

[dysfunctional press]

39. things just haven't gotten bad enough yet.

people won't have the will to make the necessary changes and sacrifices until the catastrophic shit that means it's WAY to late to do ANYTHING starts happening.

i.e.- eat, drink, and be merry- for tomorrow we die. :shrug:

[xchrom]

40. Recommend--copenfailure. Nt

[Raine]

42. We're all screwed

once again! :grr:

[Kablooie]

43. Gosh Sargent Carter! Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

Politicians will NEVER prevent the disaster.

We will just have to rely on them to deal with it the best we can when it arrives.

[Lucian]

44. This is the only place we have to live and they don't care if it's f'ed up.

At least they get their money. :grr:

[Mari333]

46. I will be checking out of this 3 dimensional nightmare in a decade or so

I weep for my grandson and his children.

[reggie the dog]

47. President Sarkozy agreed

He was ignored like at the G20 conference. He is farther to the left than Obama and far more progressive on international issues than Obama is and he is in the right wing party here in France.

[blindpig]

48. Inevitable

Trying to address environmental degradation within the framework of capitalism is impossible, the dictate of growth makes it so.

Capitalism or Nature, ya can't have both. Again Capitalism has been chosen and time is running out.

[Leftist Agitator]

52. Quit your bitchin'!

At least you live in a country where you'll never be forced to choose between saving your life and going into bankruptcy or remaining fiscally solvent and possibly dying.

[slackmaster]

55. There's a big difference between "absolute fucking disaster" and "total WASTE of time"

There are no clearly defined targets. EVERYTHING is voluntary. Developing countries are furious. The US again failed to show leadership.

This surprises you?

I weep for humanity.

Humanity will be fine. Humanity will have to adapt.

[amborin]

58. Total Disaster; i already rec'd this; NO protection for Forests, etc... n/t

[Odin2005]

59. I knew it would be a clusterfuck before it even started.

Everyone keeps trying to pass the buck and/or find someone else to blame rather than dealing with the problem.

[upi402]

61. New World Order. "Fries with that?" n/t

The rest of the world seems to get it. The TV News here has Americans propagandized and distracted. That is our prime problem. Nothing here will change until it is fixed. imho

Climate change is the prime issue for life on earth. It over arches everything else. Greed and power grabbing is out of control. Maybe we don't deserve our role as dominant life form anymore. Too bad because I love my offspring a lot.

[lyonspotter]

91. There is no New World Order.

;)

[bridgit]

62. Sadly yes, there are many moving parts all grinding together...

http://www.tarsandswatch.org

[Lorien]

64. I weep for humanity and the rest of life on earth that will go down with us

they deserve better, but all our politicians can see is the $$$ (even though green tech CREATES jobs).

[Vidar]

66. K&R.

[MadHound]

70. What, you expected better?

I had no hope for this conference and frankly they could have helped the planet a lot more by staying home rather than by releasing all those extra greenhouse gases by jetting from all over and having a huge, meaningless conference.

There is too much short sightedness for a global agreement on global climate change to ever come about in the foreseeable future, which simply means we're screwed. Prepare for that as best you can.

[GreenTea]

73. Another disaster....

[hatrack]

74. Amid the data smog, two recent facts really stood out for me . . .

1. Under the Kyoto Protocol, Australia, which finally ratified late in 2007, is required to reduce emissions by 8% below the 1990 levels by 2010. Currently, its emission levels are more than 80% above 1990 totals.

2. China doubled its coal consumption between 2002 and 2007.

But not to worry - they're going to talk about talking about talking about cutting emissions sometime soon - in 2010 or 2011 or something like that.

:eyes:

[joeybee12]

77. Yeah, let;s agree on something that does nothing, because we must not throw away the good

for the perfect. Copenfailure is right.

[Jackpine Radical]

84. Yes indeed, we have an agreement, after all. Substance would be nice, but

if we insist on it, the deniers would boycott us and then where would we be?

[BrklynLiberal]

79. So many disappointments in so little time...

x(

[Algorem]

80. Didn't Obomber bust in there like The Lone Ranger and save the day?

[bertman]

81. You know, we could look at this in a different light and say that the evidence we're

getting from scientists regarding climate change/global warming is overstated. That is the only logical conclusion I can reach when the leaders of many of these nations blatantly ignore what could be the be-all/end-all for many organisms on our planet--including US. I just find it so hard to believe that these "leaders" can be getting the facts, yet twiddle their thumbs.

Maybe they know that the climate is changing, but it's not as drastic as we're being lead to believe. Maybe this is just a marketing technique to get the industrialized world to begin a pretty gradual transition to sustainable living.

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Am I crazy?

[dorkulon]

86. The leaders are controlled by those who think of the future in financial quarters.

[G_j]

88. actually, the opposite appears to be true

http://i5.democracynow.org/2009/12/17/leaked_internal_document_global_temperatures_will

Leaked Internal UNFCCC Document: Global Temperatures Will Rise by More than Two Degrees Celsius

A leaked internal document from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change states that current targets on emissions reductions from countries around the world will cause global temperatures to rise above two degrees Celsius. According to the UNFCCC document, current emissions reduction targets could lead to a three degree Celsius rise. We speak to French journalist Jade Lindgaard. (includes rush transcript)

[pundaint]

90. Here's a quick test for crazy

Did the people you trust make previous assertions?
If no - the results are inconclusive
If yes - were they telling you the truth then?
If yes - the results are inconclusive
If no - yup, you're crazy.

[northernlights]

96. it's more likely that they know full well and do not care

Some number of humans will survive;a few billion need to die. They simply are ensuring that they are the survivors. Africa and those little islands don't matter. They literally do not care.

[bertman]

97. That's pretty much my take on it, northernlights; although, I think you may be reaching

a bit if you think any oxygen-breathing critters survive after the sequestered methane gets released into the atmosphere.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, eh?

[northernlights]

101. or wait and not live to see...

whether something will survive. Anaerobic bacteria? e.coli thrives with and without O2, if I remember correctly. That and a couple other bacteria transition the large colon from aerobic to anaerobic environments and thrive on our shit. And the terrorist deadly strains of e. coli wouldn't have turned into our enemies if we hadn't started wiping out their families and friends as collateral damage in our "WAR ON BACTERIA."

Also, will sequestered methane change O2 levels down here? Or just turn this place into an oven (the heat-loving bacteria thrive), followed by an ice age (the ice loving bacteria will return).

Seriously, humanity is a total fuckup. And you're right. To state it more correctly, TPTB assume some number of humanity will survive. They intend it to be themselves and their slaves. And the sooner the rest of the peasants get with the program and die already, the better off they will be.

[glinda]

82. we are screwed. well at least I won't have to go to jail for not being able to afford Insurance...

[pleah]

89. K&R Not worth the paper it's written on. n/t

[Skittles]

95. no surprise here

[alarimer]

99. Obama is nothing but a corporate boot-licker

He has shown no willingness at all to get tough on corporations, whether it is on health care or climate or the financial mess.