I will not obey a mandate. I will not pay a fine.

[radiclib]

They'll have to give me health care in jail, won't they?

Fuck them. Who's with me?

[Jamastiene]

1. I'm going to make them chase me through the swamps of North Carolina.

Let them wade through alligators, copperheads, water moccasins and rattlesnakes to come find me. Come on and get me, assholes.

[Kansas Wyatt]

18. Worked for the Lowrie Gang

But I think the Corporate Government Store will just keep billing you, so that you will never have a chance at a normal and 'free' life.

[Jamastiene]

46. Most of the jobs in my area nowadays

are under the counter type jobs anyhow. We've been cut off for a pretty long time here where I live. I think I can manage. I honestly do.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

29. ROFLMAO...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I can't get the visual out of my head...Harry Reid, Dodd and the rest of them chasing this guy through the swamps of NC.
Wish I were a cartoonist.

[Jamastiene]

47. Wait'll they meet our native fauna and flora here in NC.

Then, it'll be EVEN FUNNIER. :evilgrin:

Can't you see some of them (who've never had dirt under their nails or lifted anything over the weight of a piece of paper) run into a spider web or try to climb over boulders as big as Toyotas. Watch that hairspray melt in the heat of a North Carolina summer. They'll melt, literally. :rofl:

[phasma ex machina]

53. The Great Dismal Swamp worked out fairly well for America's revolutionaries. nt

[pleah]

2. I asked this question once before:

Will they build debtors prisons? :(

[WI_DEM]

3. What if they subsidize it for you?

[Ex Lurker]

10. What if I lose my job because my employer eliminates positions rather than pay for insurance?

I strongly suspect that this is actually going to happen in my case. The company I work for could easily contract out the work I do and let someone else deal with the headache. They like me and they like my work, but that only goes so far when money is involved, In this economy, I'm not optimistic for landing a comparable job, or any job at all, for that matter. I can easily see the result of this bill being the breadline for yours truly.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. How do you get health care now?

[Ex Lurker]

49. I pay for it myself

through a crappy policy with a high deductible. But at least I have a job.

[Warren Stupidity]

52. In your case I agree that this legislation does little to help.

I think it is unlikely that your employer is going to eliminate people rather than pay the fine for not providing insurance, if they even qualify for the fine. The proposed fine is rather small - $750, and applies to businesses with 200 or more employees.

If you continue to have to purchase your own insurance you may see a reduction in cost and an increase in quality of coverage - I am just not terribly optimistic about that aspect - on paper that is the intention.

[Robbien]

44. Insurance bigwigs should not get mandated payments, no matter who is doing the paying

I don't want to be mandated to pay insurance companies
I don't want it mandated that my tax dollars going to insurance companies

This bill mandates that insurance companies can say if the very last dime they squeeze out of US citizens is not enough, they will force the government to fork over even more.

[HereSince1628]

4. In spirit, I guess something north of half of all Americans

would be with you.

In reality, don't you think the gov would sieze bank accounts, property etc?

[Jamastiene]

7. right before they throw us in prison.

Poor people don't really have that many assets to begin with. While we rot in prison, we won't really need said assets anyhow... but we'll have health care there.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. I think not. 83% of americans are already covered and unaffected.

So to start with the mandate effects the 17% who do not have insurance. Of those a huge number will qualify for subsidies. Everyone between 100 and 400% of the FPL qualifies for the subsidy.

I think this bill is rather awful, but the uproar over mandates is misplaced. It is rightwing libertarian goonery to be opposed to this bill because the evile gummint is going to tax you if you don't get insurance. The same teabaggery would be barfing out across the internets if in fact this bill was an actual single payer medicare for everyone bill, which it isn't.

The problem isn't the mandates imposed on the portion of the 17% who can afford health insurance but decide not to purchase it, the problem is the lack of substantial regulation and reform of the for-profit insurance industry. There are many examples around the world of good mandate based universal programs - but they all require extensive regulation of insurance providers and health care providers, and generally remove profit from the basic insurance entirely.

[HereSince1628]

26. I am not so sure that the insured simply ignore the idea of a mandate

I said in spirit because I think that when it comes to actually sacrificing the public would, as you say, look at what it means to their circumstance.

I am probably living in a dream world, but have a hard time believing that less than a quarter of my generation (your 17%) won't shudder at the notion of this mandate to purchase a commercial product. We came from a time when social concern and personal freedom were worshipped.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Well if you are a boomer then you are looking at medicare in a few years.

Which of course the evile gummint has forced you to pre-purchase for your entire working life.

The people of Massachusetts appear to actually not dislike their RomneyCare atrocity, upon which noble republican effort our Stupid Corrupt Party has based its Stupid Corrupt Health Care legislation.

"The nation's most ambitious experiment in universal health insurance is succeeding on its own terms, and has become fairly popular, a new survey minds. 96% of working age adults have health insurance in the state today, which is significantly higher than the national average. Also up: the percentage of people with private health insurance. It's now as high as 70% among seniors. An Urban Institute study finds that 72% of state residents are happy with the effort. The Massachusetts plan included an individual mandate, required employers to either provide coverage or pay into an insurance pool, expanded Medicaid and created a new government health care program for the lower middle class, and created a health connector agency that matches individuals with the private plan of their choice. About half of those who enrolled in the new programs are now covered by government-run plans."
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/romneycare_its_working_mostly_and_its_popular_largely.php

So we are getting a somewhat worse version of RomneyCare. It really is not the horror that we, myself included, have made it out to be. It is corrupt. It does legalize the rentier status of the health insurance industry through mandates. It furthers our decline into post modern serfdom. But it also manages to approach universal access to health care. It just does so in perhaps the stupidest most corrupt way imaginable.

If you suspect I am ambivalent about supporting or opposing this latest Kleptocratic Krapfest, you would be correct.

[PassingFair]

37. The problem is the SUM of that equation. Mandates + No Cost Controls = Disaster.

Easy-peasy.

Someone up thread said not to worry, "...they will subsidize it".

They = We.

We = Already Broke.


A story problem:

If an already broke populace is forced pay
mandated insurance premiums in a climate where
there are NO cost controls, what will happen
to the already broke populace?

Ans: Same thing we got with the "No Child Left Behind"
UNFUNDED MANDATE, only WORSE, because education costs
don't double and triple in a matter of a few years.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. They'll establish yet another agency similar to the IRS

that will terrorize folks that haven't paid. Let's face it, the US won't have anything that even resembles European healthcare. We like to fill our prisons,
and empower corporations,

I just got back from the Dominion Republic and I think we're going to try and move there.

[Little Star]

5. I think The I R S will attach our paychecks no?

[EFerrari]

42. First, we have to have a paycheck.

Who is the genius that thought increasing the working person's nut was a good idea when the economy is in the toilet and with so much unemployment?

[Mugweed]

6. It's just another unfunded mandate

with no enforcement arm. And yes, Xe will be happy to provide debtors prisons if the government gets their act together and starts hauling in the disadvantaged for not squeezing blood out of a stone.

[Hello_Kitty]

32. That's exactly what it is for the 1/2 to 2/3 of the "30 million Americans"

Who will be covered because Medicaid will be expanded. That's an unfunded mandate on states, who have to share the cost. And Ben Nelson wants states to be able to opt out of it.

[fasttense]

8. Keith Olbermann declared he wouldn't pay the fine or buy health Insurance

either. So, you have good company.

I'm retired military, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will fight for your right not to have to pay off a health insurance CEO like a mobster running a protection racket.

[UTUSN]

16. I would think that Keith would have coverage through his employer, G.E./NBC n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

24. He probably forgot to mention that detail.

I suspect somewhere around 87% of the outraged over mandates crowd here have insurance through their employers and are unaffected by this aspect of the legislation.

The mandates are not the problem. The lack of effective regulation of the insurance companies is the problem.

[ima_sinnic]

39. people are outraged whether or not they have employer-provided insurance

because they actually care about the form that health care takes in this country, and they care about those who cannot access it, AND they are no doubt anticipating that their employer-provided care is going to be gutted, raised in price, and/or cut off. I am uninsured myself, but I've read one post after another by employed people who are very worried about their health insurance.

[eppur_se_muova]

45. Actually, he stated that he paid for his own insurance, by choice.

KO is not one to overlook a disclaimer where it is appropriate.

[madmom]

27. Keith said he was "self insured".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. In other words he has millions of dollars and doesn't have to worry about it.

[madmom]

41. That's right he doesn't HAVE to worry about it, but some people

think of others too, not just themselves. I am covered by spouses employer offered insurance but I still care what happen to those who aren't. I guess it's the "liberal" way.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Caring about others is certainly my way of doing things.

[Jamastiene]

51. Actually, he pays for his own from what I read.

I believe it was in the Political Videos forum here on DU.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

35. Olbermann can probably afford to pay cash for most medical

services.

[still_one]

9. It is possible that the mandate will be taken out of the bill in committee

I am not saying it will or won't, and by all means let your Senators know how you feel, but we should find out what exactly is in this bill from the Senate, and that will be known shortly

[HereSince1628]

11. True, but that will likely be at the loss of coverage for many more millions

The idea of mandates has always made my blood run cold about this effort.

[still_one]

12. What a mess. How easy or hard is it to change a bill that becomes law, I guess is the question /nt

[TorchTheWitch]

33. not gonna happen

The only thing in this disgrace of a bill that has been totally non-negotiable is the mandate. The insurance companies insist on the mandate, therefore, the insurance companies will get the mandate. They will refuse to give a single dime to any Dem's campaign with no mandate... and you bet your ass the Dems will not forgo those funds. EVERYTHING about how this bill was approached, negotiated and how it will end up is ALL about big campaign money from the insurance industry for Dems.

[jonnyblitz]

40. exactly. the mandate is the key component and the LAST thing

they would ever consider getting rid of I am sure.

i concur with everything in your post in regards to campaign donations etc.

[Hello_Kitty]

34. Doubt it. The mandate appears to be the one thing that is ironclad and non-negotiable.

Which is very telling. Very.

[corpseratemedia]

13. jail is horrible

and they may just ignore you if you are very sick, until you have to go to the er, or until you die

you can read about all the folks who die right after they get arrested and put in jail

they ignore you

they need to remove this mandate


if they ever actually start jailing people, and those people have medical conditions or get one while in custody, they'll find out what the "health care" in there is really like and the horror stories about this bill will become an international disgrace

[SoCalDem]

14. If you have a refund coming, they will just deduct it. n/t

[unblock]

15. the problem is that it will be part of the tax code, so you'd just be known as a tax cheat.

it's impossible to simply refuse to pay the fine. if the fine is $400, you'd just be underpaying your taxes by $400.

they'd treat you as any other tax cheat, not as someone who paid their taxes and separately, refused to pay the insurance mandate fine.

[global1]

17. Jail As A Retirement Plan.......

shelter, food and healthcare provided for in jail.

[LoZoccolo]

19. I'm sure you'll have no trouble getting an injection while you're there. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

20. So you are going to rot in jail over a $95 tax?

Good luck with that. Have you been withholding your war taxes as well, or is it just the health insurance mandate tax that runs afoul of your ethical standards?

"Shared Responsibility: Beginning in 2014, most individuals will be required to maintain minimum essential coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $350 in 2015, $750 in 2016 and indexed thereafter; for those under 18, the penalty will be one-half the amount for adults. Exceptions to this requirement are made for religious objectors, those who cannot afford coverage, taxpayers with incomes less than 100 percent FPL, Indian tribe members, those who receive a hardship waiver, individuals not lawfully present, incarcerated individuals, and those not covered for less than three months."

I'd go for the religious exemption myself. Jail sucks.

[grahamhgreen]

50. If only the Christian Scientists were a stock...

[superduperfarleft]

22. I have a feeling you will. n/t

[Neecy]

25. Here's a Get Out Of Jail Free card

http://www.tfccs.com/becomingamember/

[upi402]

36. none of us will. fuck these "Democrats" for even letting it get this far.

Third party time for me. I'm done

[Odin2005]

38. The state has no right to force me to buy the product of a corporation.

THE MANDATE IS FASCISM!

[varelse]

48. I'm signed up under my employer's insurance plan

for now anyway. When he drops the plan, I'm sure some of his 600+ employees will be with you; I know that many of them live hand to mouth now, and can't afford to spend and additional 16% of their income on insurance premiums (most already pay for car insurance because it is mandatory in California). I will probably buy my own health insurance - not because of the mandate, but because I need access to health care.