Could 'Avatar' Bankrupt Fox?

[tomm2thumbs]

I guess I don't get out much, but I only recently learned that the movie 'Avatar' was actually a Rupert Murdoch (yes, FOX) production. Apparently they have been plugging it all over the place on the Fox network - ridiculously so, according to a Republican friend of mine. Promos tied in with their news shows, interviews, the whole 9 yards.

Said to be produced at around half a BILLION dollars (and likely another $100 million to promote), this risky, expensive venture is getting mixed reviews, and is suffering somewhat from it's lack of an existing known storyline from which to draw audiences.

My thoughts? Cameron got paid. The crew got paid. The actors got paid. That is done - so no harm, no foul, right? So, should I throw some Democratic money towards FOX and Murdoch to help them dig their way out a financial abyss and recover their earth-shaking expenses?

oh, HELL no!!

I can do without some entertainment if it means helping to thwart the right wing idiocy of the Murdoch brigade.

I'm not suggesting anyone else do the same.

I'm simply asking questions...you know... like that Glenn Beck fellow, who gets his salary from the same pot of gold.






* cite for 'mixed reviews' notation above

• Avatar makes no great literary claims -- its dialogue is eye-rollingly corny and its plot has been cobbled together from any number of forgettable B-movies. - Ann Homaday, Washington Post

• It's a remote-control movie experience, a high-tech "wish you were here" scribbled on a very expensive postcard. - Stephanie Zacharek

• It's impossible to fully consider James Cameron's long-in-the-making eco-opus Avatar without examining the film's technological wonders and storytelling blunders separately. - Sonny Bunch, Washington Times

• Cameron's signature achievement may have been to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the oldest of all Hollywood maxims: all the money in the world is no substitute for fresh ideas and a solid script. - Tom Huddlestone, Time Out

[saltpoint]

1. Those blue-face folks look kinda cute in the ads.

I'm not a Cameron fan but like I said, those blue people are darn cute.

[tomm2thumbs]

3. are you implying Smurf-like qualities?

Enquiring minds want to know!!

[saltpoint]

7. I hadn't thought of them as Smurf-like, truth be told.

But somehow they're just awful darn cute.

I hope some of them eventually wind up on Dancing with the Stars.

[tomm2thumbs]

9. egadz are you relegating them to TV already?!

I read an interesting article about why Titanic did so well, financially, and a lot of it was teen girls going back to the movie, over, and over, and over (even my older sister 40-ish at the time) saw it 8 times. I think Avatar lacks that kind of draw -and I'm personally wondering if this could end up being Cameron's 'Willow' - 'memba that one?

[saltpoint]

11. TITANIC wasn't a big draw for me because I didn't want to sit through

two hours of technical wizardry, no matter how wizardy it was.

I didn't like the technical angle that much anyway and thought the older woman dropping her jewelry into the murk was the heart of the tale.

Also the class tension angle was pretty good.

Best scene was not the least bit techno-wizardy -- the painting session. I thought that was nicely done.

Not sure if I need to plunk out ten bucks plus popcorn for this one, cute as those blue folks are.

[tomm2thumbs]

18. Without a good story, a technical wizardry movie becomes 'Twister' - flying cows & laughs

added pic for the uninformed





weeeeeee!!!!!!

[saltpoint]

19. Now this is just me, but I could watch footage of air-borne cattle for

hours.

[YOY]

21. Not just you.

As long as I don't have to watch the ground chuck inducing splatter of the inevitable post-airborne-cattledom.

[saltpoint]

27. Agree. Cattle in flight, suspended in the air, suggest something, well,

holy.

[cliffordu]

67. Amen.

[immoderate]

185. Wizard of Oz did it first.

--imm

[aikoaiko]

135. I loved Twister......

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

152. Hi, aikoaiko. You know, I have to tell you I was prepared to hate

TWISTER but saw it and loved it.

In particular I liked Philip Seymour Hoffman's rock-n-roll F-5 to the max character. That was just super acting for a character actor part.

And was charmed and embarrassed by the lead guy's current squeeze, the psychiatrist. IN the early going the audience is sort of invited to reject her, even ridicule her, and then as the story develope she's the one who proves the circuit breaker. I was embarrassed to have been tricked against her and then happy to see such a redeeming virtuous woman at the end.

Great film.

[phasma ex machina]

162. +1 I like "Twister" too. Still, the hilarious flying objects provide comic relief.

Paraphrasing the Pogue Colonel character from "Full Metal Jacket" - inside every movie there is a comedy trying to get out.

[phasma ex machina]

161. Classic. LOL.

Getting back to the thread topic, one can only hope.

OTOH one must respect virtual peer of the realm Murdoch's Machiavellian moxie.

[WCGreen]

116. Does that make Sigorney Weaver Smurfette....

[tomm2thumbs]

119. we'd have to cut her open to be sure

if she bleeds sweetened cherry nectar - then yes

[NYC_SKP]

6. OMG, there's gonna be a new Fetish Genre.

Inspired by this film, featuring blue avatar men and women...doing I don't know what.

:wow:

[saltpoint]

8. I like the concept.

Go, team.

[JHB]

36. Too late!

https://market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1648565&member

[cliffordu]

69. Already working on the film...

It's called "fuck me blue"

[tomm2thumbs]

118. 'I see Blue people...' (insert eerie music here)

[bigwillq]

80. They look like Cat Elves (nt)

[DRoseDARs]

173. "The Thundercats Save Ferngully" or "Dances with Smurfs"

Either gives one the giggles.

[madokie]

2. The only thing that I'd care to see of rupert murdock

is his hanging for treason. period.

[NYC_SKP]

4. I've always wondered what personal inadequacy drives James Cameron.

I know, I'm being judgmental, but FFS, can't the man make a good normal-budget movie driven by script and raw talent???

[geckosfeet]

10. Yeah. I am still awed by the puppets in Team America.

[NYC_SKP]

15. Yes, Team America and Clutch Cargo!

[spanone]

22. wow, a clutch cargo reference.....i'd almost forgot about clutch

[Blue_In_AK]

149. Clutch Cargo creeped me out so bad.

That weird mouth .... ick.

[surrealAmerican]

16. Perhaps he can't.

Storytelling is a more difficult skill than most people think it is. He's more interested in making impressive visual effects, not an easy skill either, but not enough to carry a movie with bad writing.

[DavidDvorkin]

20. So his genre preference must come from personal inadequacy?

That's a non-sequitur.

[Greyhound]

112. Megalomania.

Seriously, he is very sick but the sickness is the source of his vision. Hard to work with.

[onenote]

5. no chance

It will gross at least 250 million (or more) worldwide and a bunch more in licensing dvd, interactive games, etc etc etc.

[Pab Sungenis]

12. But even if it grosses $250M

It loses at least $250M. It had a budget of $500M for production alone.

[spanone]

24. titanic cost 300 million BUT grossed just under TWO BILLION worldwide

[tomm2thumbs]

25. the Lucasfilm licensing head seem to think they might hit trouble..

From an article on the merchandising aspect of this movie:

'Howard Roffman, head of licensing for Lucasfilm, the company behind "Star Wars," said he would be "very nervous" to launch a retail push now, as Fox has done with "Avatar."

"The economy is not good, retailers are challenged, licensee companies are challenged, so my hat's off to people who rise to that and get a program out there," Roffman said.

Last year, the Warner Bros release "Speed Racer" bombed at box offices when it was released in May, and analysts say it crippled sales of toys tied to that movie.'

[onenote]

46. and losing $250 million isn't going to bankrupt Fox

And that was my point -- News Corp. has assets and annual revenues in the tens of Billions (with a "B") -- so a loss of $250 -$500 billion wouldn't bankrupt it. And as others have noted, my statement of $250 million was my assumption of the worst possible box office number worldwide for Avatar. In all likelihood, it will earn significantly more than that.

[go west young man]

179. NewsCorps losses this year from an article dated August 6.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/business/global/06news.html


In the movie business, the News Corporation reported fourth-quarter operating income of $203 million, down 8 percent from last year. In broadcast television, an industry deeply affected by the advertising recession and the digital revolution, the company reported a decline of $184 million in operating income, to $95 million.

Over all, the company reported operating income of $948 million in the fourth quarter, down from $1.4 billion in last year’s fourth quarter.

For the full fiscal year, including the charges, the company reported a net loss of $5.4 billion. Excluding the charges, the company reported operating income of $3.6 billion, down $1.7 billion from its 2008 fiscal year.

Revenue for the quarter was $7.7 billion, down from $8.6 billion in the same period last year. This was in line with what Wall Street analysts had been expecting, according to Thomson Reuters.


The movie having a loss won't bankrupt em but it could put a significant dent in em. Myspace is declining and the site sucks so much that it's sure to keep losing. Rupert may be biting off more turds than he can handle in his old age.

[MadBadger]

68. It could gross 250M here, but worldwide it will no doubt surpass 500M

[Pab Sungenis]

82. Possibly....

but remember that the $500M is before any publicity or advertising costs are factored in.

There's one other thing that could kill "Avatar" off: the weather. New York and Philadelphia are snowed under this weekend, so two of the top 4 film markets are going to have very low attendance compared to projections. That's going to very negatively impact opening weekend grosses.

Opening weekend grosses are going to propel advertising purchase decisions. They're also going to make secondary markets think twice about investing in the film (like discount theaters not bringing it in). It will also really hurt in the expectations game. ("Avatar" should have had a $100M opening weekend, but it only did....)

That can make even a hit movie seem like a flop, and once the initial verdict is in, it's all over.

[MadBadger]

96. That could impact opening weekend gross, but that doesnt meant people wont go see it.

They were not expecting this movie to be a major 100 million dollar opening weekend blockbuster. Their expectations were around 60-70 million and that this movie would have staying power, much like a Titanic.

[Pab Sungenis]

128. I'm not so sure.

Titanic had a lot of repeat business from teen girls going to see Leo DiCaprio over and over. This movie doesn't have that kind of draw. Titanic was also before Bittorrent, and when tickets were still $6.00 in most of the country as opposed to $12-$15 today. Both of those factors cut down on repeat business.

And please don't underestimate the impact of a first weekend blizzard in the Northeast. During the big snow of Feburary, 1994, three movies were opening the same weekend. Odds on for top dog were "I'll Do Anything" and "Romeo Is Bleeding." The Northeast was pounded, just like it is this weekend. As a result, the Flyover states had more influence on the box office and catapulted "Ace Ventura: Pet Detective" out of nowhere into #1. Neither "I'll Do Anything" nor "Romeo Is Bleeding" survived being crushed opening weekend, although "Romeo" did well in the secondary market.

The Friday numbers are in. "Avatar" did $27M on Friday, $3M of which was from midnight showings. This was lower than expectations. Predictions were for it to top "I Am Legend," which holds this weekend's Friday record at $30.1M. "Legend" brought in $77M. If the blizzard hadn't intervened, that might have allowed "Avatar" to open at about $65M for the weekend.

Taking out cities #1 and #4 on Saturday (the biggest grossing night of the weekend) is going to really hurt the film's numbers. My projection, based on what I've seen, is $50M for opening weekend if they're lucky (and that means having a lot of red-state appeal for what could well have been an art flick).

Second weekend films drop precipitously because they lose screens. The last film not to do that (as far as I can see) was "Titanic," which had the teen girl Leo factor that "Avatar" lacks. I'll be generous and say that foiks in NY and Philadelphia who wanted to see it opening weekend and didn't download it go next week. That will hold the drop down to 33% instead of the usual 50-60%. That will give it $34M (rounding up to be extra generous).

Giving it a projected 10 week run in first run (which is unlikely) and with a similar sliding scale, I think "Avatar" will gross $110M domestic first run. Foreign and secondary might lift it closer to $400M, but James Cameron will never direct a movie again.

[MadBadger]

130. I know first hand that their expectations are what I said they are.

My dad is Distribution Division Manager of the Midwest for 20th Century Fox. He told me this morning they were expecting 60-70 million in the opening weekend after I questioned him on their expectations. I think the movie will definitely exceed your expectations of 110M, and the movie get very close to I am Legend's weekend totals.

And while it may not have the Leo factor, it certainly has the visual and special effects masterpiece card it can play that will have people wanting to see it over and over again.

[Pab Sungenis]

133. I'm not disputing your claims regarding their expectations.

But coming from someone with experience on the exhibition side, not distribution, I doubt it's going to make expectations. A lot of that will be due to the snowstorm, but it's going to be a bit of a disappointment.

It will not, however, bankrupt Fox. I agree about that.

[MadBadger]

134. Dont overestimate this snowstorm though either.

It may have decimated areas like Baltimore and DC, but its barely hit New York yet. I'm about 50 minutes South west of the City and it only started to come down harder in the last couple hours. Its probably snowed here only 2-3 inches. It will pick up more as the night goes on of course, but the city may have gotten a reprieve for the most part until it starts snowing a lot harder later on tonight.

[MadBadger]

159. $73M for Avatar in its opening weekend, blizzard and all

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ia1FPSxXY_CtWNU2djwNxRbGiU3wD9CN4OEG2

[MadBadger]

193. Avatar did another 16 million on Tuesday after doing 16 million on Monday

Its already grossed about 110M dollars.

[Johonny]

57. It may play for over year on 3-D screens

word is nothing compares to it for a 3-D movie. The limit on thus theatres probably means long waits to get in and see it in 3-D. It may be the "Jazz Singer" of the new wave in 3-D movies. I can't see this movie not making lots of money.

[Lorien]

141. I predict over 1 billion worldwide

350 mil domestic.

[nashville_brook]

13. i saw it last night, and i'd be shocked, if it doesn't become this generation's Star Wars

and, it's a POWERFUL anti-colonial message. if you want amazing dialog, rent Pulp Fiction. this was an amazing experience. the art direction was spot-on. the political message was spot-on and the 3-D was mind blowing.

so, be a sourpuss if you want. but you're missing out. big time.

[tomm2thumbs]

14. I'll miss out - if even one penny managed to help fund Glenn Beck, I wouldn't be able to sleep

Actually, the fact that they were pushing it so hard on the network makes me think that they know they are running an uphill battle. I swear, my friend is a Fox Freak, and even he said he wasn't sure he'd see it. And he loves movies. I think it is the genre as much as the bad reviews.

[nashville_brook]

38. anyone with a native american "avatar" needs to see this movie.

if you have any interest or passion about native people's and their struggle -- this movie is for you.

[tomm2thumbs]

47. 'Little Big Man', thank you very much

now THAT was a movie that crossed all the T's and dotted all the i's

[Iggo]

56. Do you watch Bones?

The movie tie-in to that episode (psych and two labrats jizzing in their pants over standing in line for a couple of days for movie they already had tickets to) was just lame. Except for the impossibly pretty young woman who would sleep with anyone for a place in line to see that movie. Oh wait. That was still lame. But did I mention she was impossibly pretty? Mmm, yes.

[tomm2thumbs]

58. on Bones

Can't say that I have - which makes me feel bad because I can only hope now that someone reads that post and can respond with something paramount to 'Oh yes, exactly!' and then dive in with details that I lack. Me sowee. Were they specific to Avatar or implying it? They played with it on the Southpark episode that mocked Glenn Beck (Cartman turning into him as school announcement reader)

I digress

[Iggo]

60. They were very specific to Avatar, by name.

Labrat-Of-The-Week (the tall one who spouts random facts) won the tickets in some kind of lottery and psych and the facial reconstructor's ex-boyfriend were sooooooooo jealous, mutually masturbating each other over how significant and great this movie is. It was quite sickening.

[tomm2thumbs]

61. ugh - when it is forced, it is like dry heaving into a bucket

you just have to spit after it is over to feel like it was all worth it

[Iggo]

63. 'Forced'. Yes, that's exactly the word. (n/t)

[nashville_brook]

90. not a Bones watcher, but i heard a story on NPR about the nauseating marketing of the film

there's likely a study to be done about the backfiring of over-the-top marketing. i've skipped plenty of over-hyped crap. this isn't one to skip.

[MadBadger]

70. Bad Reviews? It's getting an 82% on Rotten Tomatoes

Which is the sign of a movie that is very well reviewed.

[nashville_brook]

91. your "fox freak friend" isn't going to see it b/c it's an ecotopic epic. his head would explode.

[dysfunctional press]

101. i'll be seeing it multiple times- so that will help to balance it out.

this movie is going to break box-office records around the world.

[Lorien]

143. So, the Right Wingers are boycotting because of it's strong liberal message

and you're fussy because of who owns the distribution studio? What CAN you do, buy, or see that's ideologically pure enough for you?

Avatar: a film by a progressive made in the USA by union members with a anti-corporate, anti war, pro-environment agenda. Sounds like a must see to me!

[snagglepuss]

28. Wanting Murdoch to take a financial hit is worthy of support from the Left.

I am actually that you of all people wouldn't see that.

[tomm2thumbs]

30. well, that makes an assumption of course

of which I cannot mention

[nashville_brook]

dupe/delete

[nashville_brook]

39. i take immense pleasure in the fact that his company bankrolled this piece of agitprop.

it beats him at his own game. so what if he makes some dough off it in the long run -- it's so powerful it transcends the money issue. children, especially need to see it b/c you come out inspired - that fighting for nature is the greatest endeavor we can participate in.

there's also a more subtle, and possibly more important message, that regardless of your current loyalty, you can always change sides. that, even a marine grunt has the freedom and responsibility to switch sides and fight for larger truths.

[Lorien]

145. And you'll take down the liberals and union workers who made the film

to ,in a very roundabout way, make a statement against the owner of the distributor? :crazy:

[snagglepuss]

151. They've already gotten paid. nt

[Political Heretic]

114. Thank you.

I love it when people mistake boycotting a movie as some sort of meaningful political action.

[proteus_lives]

147. You're giving it too much credit.

The plot kinda sucked.

Dances with Wolves in space.

No subtlety, crappy supporting characters and too much emphasis on FX.

[Xithras]

182. Yeah, well the plot and acting in Star Wars kinda sucked too.

Didn't stop it from becoming a cultural icon.

I haven't seen Avatar yet, and I don't know if I'm going to, but pretty much every "under-30" I've spoken to about it has been in awe of the movie. Several have gone so far as to say that it's one of the "best" movies made in the past decade. I dunno about that, but it looks like it's a real hit with the space fiction set.

I won't be shocked at all if the above poster is right and this becomes the current generations Star Wars. Or at least their Jurassic Park.

[snagglepuss]

17. Thanks for the heads up. If its a Murdoch production, I ain't going. nt

[gulliver]

124. Your avatar is from "Life in Hell" by Matt Groening...

...of Simpsons fame, a show currently on the Fox Network.

I think Murdoch's favorite color is green. I hope he makes money on this film, big money. I want everyone to make serious green on green.

[snagglepuss]

126. I can't think of a more idoitic post on DU than yours.

I became a Groening fan in the 80's way before The Simpson's which I may have seen a couple of times with my nephews. I don't have cable or TV for that matter.

[global1]

23. For Rupert And Fox To Get Behind This Movie There Must Be Some RW Political Message In It......

what are they attempting to subliminally get across to the public? There must be some political message if they are promoting this movie.

[nashville_brook]

33. there's not -- it's the most anti-war, anti-colonialism message you can imagine

and the reich wing is up in arms about it.

[snagglepuss]

52. The commodification of dissent continues apace and you lap it up.

I suggest you read anything by Thomas Frank.

snip

Contemporary corporate fantasy imagines a world of ceaseless, turbulent change, of centers that ecstatically fail to hold,... Businessmen today decorate the walls of their offices not with portraits of President Eisenhower and emblems of suburban order, but with images of extreme athletic daring, with sayings about "diversity" and "empowerment" and "thinking outside the box." They theorize their world not in the bar car of the commuter train, but in weepy corporate retreats at which they beat their tom-toms and envision themselves as part of the great avant-garde tradition of edge-livers, risk-takers, and ass-kickers. Their world is a place not of sublimation and conformity, but of "leadership" and bold talk about defying the herd. And there is nothing this new enlightened species of businessman despises more than "rules" and "reason."



http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/f/frank-dissent.html

[tomm2thumbs]

55. sharing inspiration...

are you a teacher? one could imagine so and what kids might be taught such things would be fortunate and heading to a new place such as you describe being lost quickly in this world.

hope so!

[nashville_brook]

83. your hairshirt is fitting awful tight today.

[DefenseLawyer]

53. The only thing they get behind is the armored truck

The Fox Entertainment division wants cold hard cash. Liberal, conservative, smart, dumb, they want all of it. Notice Fox didn't release the colossal bomb "An American Carol".

[tomm2thumbs]

59. was that about Carol Burnett?

nevermind - I'll never know if they aren't releasing it

[MadBadger]

64. One of the most ignorant things Ive seen on this site.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

163. That's why they air The Simpsons and Family Guy, two shows that mock Fox constantly.

:eyes:

[anigbrowl]

192. Not really, no.

20th century Fox (the movie part of the media conglomerate) does not have any particular political drift. Hollywood doesn't really function that way, especially at the blockbuster level.

[YOY]

26. I rather want to see it to judge for myself...

{Cough}... Torrent {cough} ...{cough cough}.

[tomm2thumbs]

34. I see what you did there

makes one think that if Titanic were released in this world today of computer connectivity, in a fiercely terrible economy, if no doubt it would have taken a huge hit internationally and otherwise

[YOY]

40. That one would be no great loss...but I have a rule of thumb.

If I like it and it was worth the trouble...then I buy it/pay for it. I'm a man of my words too.

I'm a little hard up for loose cash these days. So I'll judge...if I dislike it then nothing ventured nothing lost. If I like it then a trip to the DVD store when the time comes or a ticket at the movie theater to see a better version.

Hand on the holy book of your choice: if I like it I will pay for it.

[tomm2thumbs]

43. I know someone like that on music too

they want it earlier than the release, but then they go buy the real thing

they can sleep at night

[YOY]

49. As can I.

And I just about all folks who do such that I know of will do the same. Think of it as "try before you buy"...

[nashville_brook]

99. you cannot pirate this and have any idea what's going on in this movie. you're not seeing the movie

that was made, if you download this.

you can watch a woody allen movie on your iphone and get. not so much with this. this is virtual reality, as they used to say.

[YOY]

157. We I did and I did and I hate to say it but I am going to the theater to see it for real.

I liked it.

[Celebration]

29. I think it's going to be a hit

Honestly, am I not supposed to watch American Idol because I don't like Glenn Beck?

I probably will not see the movie but I'm not into boycotting anything good just because it happens to come out of Fox.

[datasuspect]

31. well, the marketing machine is having orgasms over it

so it must be this season's Greatest Thing Ever.

yawn

[Leftist Agitator]

54. "...am I not supposed to watch American Idol because I don't like Glenn Beck?"

No, you're not supposed to watch American Idol because it fucking sucks.

[tomm2thumbs]

71. omg - I was just thinking that

are you from the blue people planet?

[Leftist Agitator]

148. "blue people planet"

OK, you lost me.

:shrug:

[jmowreader]

32. I give 'em at least a little credit...

It's not a sequel, and it's not the seven thousandth re-imagining of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol.

I want a new take on the classic Dickens tale: A Republican Christmas Carol. Scrooge is the head of Diebold and gets himself installed in the Oval Office. After the three ghosts show him how GOP policies are responsible for laying waste to the whole nation, he gets worse: he makes Tiny Tim commit seppuku, throws all the poor people in jail and cuts taxes on the Scrooge Pioneers and Scrooge Rangers to zero.

[DainBramaged]

35. I hope it DOES bankrupt FAUX and now that I know this, I will not go

Goodies fuck FAUX every little way we can.

[MadBadger]

65. Ever watch Star Wars, Family Guy, or The Simpsons?

Ever seen Titanic, Die Hard, X-Men, Office Space, Fight Club, Home Alone...ever seen any of those?

[Lorien]

79. I can't believe these people sometimes

Of all the issues to take a stand on; they pick a union made film with a liberal director and message and boycott it because of who the DISTRIBUTOR is associated with? :crazy:

[MadBadger]

98. They think Murdoch has his Conservative stamp on EVERYTHING

Sure he has his conservative stamp on his "news" businesses. But he leaves 20th Century Fox and Fox TV alone.

[Lorien]

77. Union hater

This was a union made film created by liberals with a pro-environment, anti war and anti corporate message. Why do you hate American union made products so much?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

37. Unlikely. Most all movies, even expensive ones, make money

Hollywood accounting is geared to shafting point-holders hence it is usually in the financial interest of the top people to hide profit.

As long as Avatar is not a flat BOMB it will do fine. It might not be hugely profitable but nobody's going bankrupt.

[TexasObserver]

41. I expect it to be another James Cameron stinker.

Most of the crap he makes is very expensive cotton candy.

Titanic? Ugh.

Abyss? Horrific.

[saltpoint]

42. Hollywood likes its blockbuster movies, I realize. One industry insider

said that the Hollywood studios will smile on any film that "puts butts in seats" in Omaha and Dayton.

But for what they shell out to make blockbusters think of the large number of smaller, beautifully-done small films that could be made, and the number of people -- talented folks in all areas of film-making, music, set design, etc. -- who could be engaged and employed and allowed a venue.

[tomm2thumbs]

44. amelie? seen it?

not choosing one over another, but I remember thinking - 'this is movie making I wish I'd see more of'

[saltpoint]

48. There it is. Exactly that sort of film -- high caliber everything but

much lower cost than the Hollywood blockbusters.

Other cultures make splendid films for far less.

THE DREAM LIFE OF ANGELS (France)

CINEMA PARADISO (Italy)

THE LIVES OF OTHERS (Germany)

etc.

[tomm2thumbs]

50. saving your post for later - thanks

good movies should be shared like good restaurants

[go west young man]

180. I love foreign movies too. Some other amazing ones to add to your list.

Sex and Lucia, The Starmaker, Malena, Il Postino, Amelie, Life is Beautiful, A Very Long Engagement, The Pillow Book. On the American side- The Life Aquatic with Steve Visuo, Darjelling Unlimited, Laurel Canyon.

[NoodleyAppendage]

45. It's actually a good movie and has very LIBERAL themes throughout.

There's a blatantly obvious dig against the notion of pre-emptive war. There's a theme of cultural diversity and respect for native peoples. There's the theme of ecological interconnectedness. And, lastly there's an obvious anti-corporate message in the movie.

Frankly, I'm mystified why the Dark Lord Murdock allowed those themes and story points to remain in the final product.

Highly recommend the movie...see it in 3D, if possible.

J

[tomm2thumbs]

51. you are, of course, suggesting people sneak into the theater to do so, correct?

<grin>

I'm joshin', but that actually would add an element of adrenaline that could enhance, not detract

[Lorien]

75. Yeah, wouldn't want the animators, engineers or crew to get another job

because this one was successful, would we? :eyes:

The studio distributing the picture usually has little creative input into anything. They're a small part of the process. The film was primarily made by liberals and has a liberal message, and all you can see is the owner of the financial backer, who you don't like. That's a stretch, and a battle not worth fighting.

[tomm2thumbs]

93. not at all

you are correct

[nashville_brook]

86. yeah! b/c there's nothing wrong with stealing.

[MadBadger]

66. You'll notice that Murdoch's politics really only control his "News" businesses

Meaning Fox News, Fox Business, and the Post. But his politics do not come into play at all with Fox TV, 20th Century Fox films.

[Lorien]

74. That's because Murdock doesn't oversee the properties that 20th century

Fox green lights. He runs his empire, the Studio looks at what's promising and will fit into their budget and distribution schedule.

Fox also distributed "Star Wars". Will we be asked to boycott that as well? Lucas and Cameron are both Left Wingers.

[Kitsune]

62. I don't even care about that, I just loathe 3D gimmickry.

I mean, I thought this shit died in the 70s. It's distracting, it kills resolution, it leeches color saturation, and it gives me rather profound headaches and nausea. Ultimately it's a stupid gimmick to apply to what is, at its core, a 2-D medium.

[NoodleyAppendage]

122. Not to worry

I was worried about that as well, but the 3D is not used in the old gimmicky way it is only used to augment the scene. Best 3D I've ever seen...not at all Viewmaster-like.

[Lorien]

72. Oh for crying out loud; "Avatar" has an anti-war, pro-environment,

anti-corporate message that makes Right wingers NUTS. I've already seen them kvetching about the "overly eco-friendliness" of the film, which they see as highly offensive ("gotta destroy creation for profit cause it says so in the Bible I made up"). Cameron is a Lefty. My cousin is a good friend of his ex-wife, who is also a liberal. I have several friends shopping big budget productions around Hollywood right now. They'll go with whatever studio is willing to fit it into their distribution schedule. That's how it works. Politics don't play a part in the process.

There are many worth while issues to take a stand on. This is not one of them.

[walldude]

73. You got it... The only people giving this film bad reviews

are right wingers including Fox..

[HipChick]

76. That was my take on it too..

[tammywammy]

78. It does, I agree

I saw it in 3D yesterday. It was awesome, and I haven't been to an opening day movie release in years. I highly recommend this movie. I'd even see it again in the theater.

[nashville_brook]

85. it must be seen in 3-D! it was a 2 hour and 45 minute LEGAL acid trip.

best part -- i could fall asleep after without taking a muscle relaxer!

[Lorien]

87. OK, you've sold me. A night without cyclobenzaprine is well worth the $10!

I haven't seen it yet but know a few people who were working on it. Gotta support those union made films!

[nashville_brook]

94. hell yeah! honestly, the use of the 3D was subtle and right on the money.

it added to the immersiveness of the film, but didn't distract. it didn't do all that "flying out at you" hackneyed crap. it's by far the best implementation of 3-D in a movie. see it in IMAX!!

you're in orlando, no? are your friends from full sail? i've been thinking about taking some classes there. i have to get out of my current line of work.

[Lorien]

140. Yeah, I've got plenty of friends at Full Sail

I've asked them myself about transitioning from 2D animation to 3D via some classes there. They told me that the market is so glutted with young animators willing to take $10 an hour that they suggested that I stick with the old school stuff that I do. That was discouraging. Still, I have a good buddy who was a colleague at Disney Feature, and he went on to be one of the top animators at ILM. Very successful move for him. What's your current line of work?

[tammywammy]

92. IMAX was sold out, but I'd definitely like to see it again on the IMAX screen

It was an awesome movie and a good message too. There's only one movie critic that I occasionally listen to, and he never steers me wrong, but he mentioned that when you watch Avatar, you forget that it's CGI people and you really do. As someone else said, it was almost 3 hours long, but I could have watched this movie play out for another 3 hours.

[nashville_brook]

95. i completely forgot that it was CGI and 3D for most of the movie. he really took you there.

actually -- it was the jarhead bad guy who kept jostling me into thinking it was CGI -- and he was REAL!!

[tammywammy]

97. About two thirds of the way through, I thought of what the critic said and realized he was right

I didn't see all this marketing hype people are talking about. I just saw a few commercials and I've seen more for that "Where are the Morgans" (or whatever it's called). But when I was driving out of town last week, the local radio show I like had their movie critic on and he said good things about this movie. I had been on the fence about going to see it, but I'm really glad I did.

[sonias]

138. I saw it in IMAX yesterday

Super cool and amazing. I loved the animal character designs. I see that Weta Digital did them. They did the characters in LoTR too and District 9.

You could tell a lot of it was filmed in New Zealand. It's the cool country to film in these days. Absolutely gorgeous scenery!

I'd like to see it again too.

:hi:

Sonia

[nashville_brook]

84. right on! i don't even know why i bother responding to these people with their

self righteousness. should let them have all of it they want. life's too short.

[wickerwoman]

187. Yep, exactly.

Plus with merchandising, there is no way this movie isn't going to make a mint.

[RedCloud]

81. I'll wait until some satellite network shows it ad nauseum.

[Lorien]

88. No 3D, no big screen

from what everyone is saying this one is well worth the trip to the theater.

[HipChick]

109. 3D or IMAX

[dysfunctional press]

113. 3d AND imax.

that's how i saw it, and how i'll be seeing it again. and probably again.

[A HERETIC I AM]

189. Just now got home from seeing it in that format...

at a 11:50 AM show. The theater was probably half full on a Monday morning.

Probably one of the most fantastic visual experiences I've ever seen. I can't remember the last time I saw a 3-D movie but seeing this one on an IMAX screen was phenomenal.

I thought Star Wars was a tremendous visual event when it first came out too, but from a special effects standpoint, Star Wars was the Wright Flyer and Avatar is an F-35.

Anyone that thinks this is going to be a flop is wrong. I'll bet it will break all kinds of records. It apparently didn't break the highest gross for an opening weekend though, but I think it will have some staying power.

[paparush]

89. Interesting that Fox/Murdoch produced this anti-war movie

Powerful militaristic colonialists take over smaller, "primitive" planet to exploit their natural resources.

[taterguy]

155. Murdoch produced Gallipoli too

One of the most powerful anti-war movies ever made

[dysfunctional press]

100. they are going to make a FORTUNE with this movie.

the overall experience is like nothing else.
i saw it at the 12:01am showing on imax 3d along with a packed theatre, and i plan on seeing it a couple more times at least.

[TransitJohn]

102. When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?

Spot on rant here: http://io9.com/5422666/when-will-white-people-stop-making-movies-like-avatar

[dysfunctional press]

104. hopefully never.

or at least not until a new entertainment technology makes movies obsolete.

[TransitJohn]

105. So you like bland scripts that tend

to reinforce a Caucasian centric point of view. Gotcha.

[dysfunctional press]

110. i enjoy being entertained- and avatar is an EXTREMELY entertaining film experience.

i'll be seeing it multiple times.

and i'll enjoy it every time.

[tomm2thumbs]

117. that was a great link - thanks

[TransitJohn]

129. You're welcome.

Thanks for reading it. :hi:

[Orsino]

158. It probably wouldn't be Fox...

...if there weren't at least a little clumsy, tone-deaf justification for empire.

But maybe Avatar isn't political in itself, and is just supposed to help finance Murdoch's political ambitions?

[howard112211]

184. I read your link. The point is very well taken.

For one I will have to reconsider whether I consider this movie entirely a "liberal" movie.

However, I think this is not all about race. This may be a somewhat "racial" movie but I think it is also a "geek" movie.

The people most likely to identify with the "blank slate character" in Avatar I would think are probably not necessarily people who have had many experiences with racial tensions.

I think people who will identify the most with the protagonist are those who feel lonely, alien and powerless among their OWN people.

The natives in this movie are not exactly a prototype of oppressed people. They may be threatened by the overwhelming destructive force of the "whites" in this movie but they are also powerful and superiour. Taller than humans, more attractive and exotic, stronger and wiser. The humans appear like bullhogs with machine guns in comparison.

I think the overall theme is more "breaking out of the machinery". Sure, the protagonist eventually becomes a leader. Point well taken. But is this any different from, say, "The neverending story"?

I see the theme of this movie less racial, and more something like: There is a world that is like a dream inhabited by beings that are like angels. The destructive machinery of the "real world" of ruthlessness threatens to destroy this place. The main character, who is weak an broken himself, finds courage to face up to the evils of the world around him and eventually finds peace.

I think the people who this rings most with are not the ones who have alot of "white guilt" in them. I think the people this
rings with are the ones who feel weak and have a slight tendency towards narcissm. The same people who identified with Luke Skywalker and wished they could take on the empire all by themselves.

[howard112211]

188. Additional remark:

I think James Cameron said this movie is dedicated to the "generation avatar". The generation who spends so much time in virtual worlds that their real bodies deteriorate.

The movie picks up on that theme. The protagonist is called "dreamwalker" for a reason.

[Liberal_in_LA]

190. Spot on is right!

[Cleita]

103. From what I read it has a liberal message.

Murdoch does what he does for money. I mean "The Simpsons" are out of the same pot. It's the news he brings his neo-con philosophy to. Although I agree with you about throwing money at him, I will see the movie eventually but only after it's on TV for free or in the $1 used DVD bin at the store. I've already seen enough promo clips to get an idea about what the animation is about, which is the big selling point of the movie.

[tomm2thumbs]

106. dupe

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

107. Even if they took every last dollar they spent on Avatar and burned it...

...they still wouldn't be anywhere near bankrupt.

[liberal_at_heart]

108. I wouldn't mind seeing it

Cameron's movies aren't as good as most independent movies are, but as far as blockbusters go I like Cameron's movies. Problem is all the movie studios are putting all the good movies out all at once. So, I don't know which movies I plan on seeing and which are just going to have to wait until dvd. I can't afford to see them all. I want to see It's Complicated, Invictus, Brothers, Sherlock Holmes, Nine, Up in the Air. I mean there are just too many good movies coming out and I don't know which ones to go see. I think Avatar looks like a good movie, but it may have to wait until dvd.

[bamacrat]

111. Absolutely no desire to see it. Looks dumb.

I read that it cost a little over 300 million to make and around 200 million in promotions. It may be visually cool but who the hell cares, hope it does bankrupt them.

[Liberal_in_LA]

115. '2012' had a dumb plot but it's doing well.... Lots of action, technology does well on world market

[MadHound]

120. I'm of a mixed mind on this one

When I first started seeing the trailers I thought that it was for some new video game that Cameron was selling. Everything, including the real life humans looks like that have at least that CGI gloss put on them. The emphasis is all on action and special effects with little plot. Then I realized that it was actually a movie and just wasn't terribly impressed. I'll probably rent the DVD when it comes out so I won't feel cheated if all it's simply another action/special effects POS with no plot.

As far as it being put out by Murdoch and Fox, well, I really don't mix entertainment and politics. If I did I realized long ago that I would be limiting myself in a major way. Just one example, The Simpsons are put out by Fox as well:shrug:

[galileoreloaded]

121. Just saw it. Definately this generation's Star Wars.

VERY liberal message, will become an instant classic.

See it in RealD 3D, unfrikinbelieveable.

[MadBadger]

131. Would you see it again in theaters?

[galileoreloaded]

136. Goin' again tonite!!!

[jdp349]

123. I work in the movie Industry

I work for one the independent and foreign film acquisitions/distribution arm of one of the major Hollywood studios.

Most people only look at box office revenues but that's just the beginning of the absolutely mind blowing cash flow a film like Avatar will generate. The key is stir up as much attention during the theatrical release so you can milk even more out of the movie when it comes to foreign release, DVD, VOD, premium cable, basic cable, broadcast, digital etc, not to mention the merchandising. The movie industry is a lot more complex than just selling tickets, that's just the first revenue stream.

Also the half billion dollar budget is a marketing prop, everyone wants to see what a half billion dollar movie looks like. Realistic estimates put the actual budget around $230 million, it's a lot of money

A film like Avatar is review proof, it's beyond just a movie, it's a public spectacle and likely Fox's brand new franchise.

Also selectively quoting reviews is a dumb way to get a snap shot of the general public perception of a movie, check IMDB or Rotten Tomtoes.

[Lorien]

146. Welcome to DU jdp349!

:hi:

I agree with your assessment. I formally worked in the film industry (glad to be out; now I enjoy the films a lot more). I'm guessing that Avatar will gross at least a billion globally and minimally 350 mil domestically. The game, DVD and product tie in sales...geez, those will be through the roof. One of our film grossed nearly 250 mil domestically but did over 1 billion in merchandise at the same time. Cameron has two sequels in mind, so it could be a franchise with very long legs.

[jdp349]

165. I've been watching the numbers closely

Edit: Just checked the numbers this morning, 220-230 million globally so far.

I've been meaning to go to a screening of Avatar, but I think I might just cough up the money and go see it the way it's meant to be seen in an I-Max/3D theater. I'm pretty excited for the movie, I sort of work in the indie world but that doesn't mean I don't love over the top super Hollywood productions.

[DailyGrind51]

125. See "Invictus" instead, Morgan Freeman as Nelson Mandela is outstanding!

[Zomby Woof]

137. Great rec!

A real movie, about real people, with actual dialogue, plot, and interesting characters. Anathema to fanboys.

[proteus_lives]

144. It was wonderful!

[Warren DeMontague]

127. I'm seeing it in the Theater.

Sorry, Jack-- No amount of foot-stomping and pontificating is going to stand up against reviews like "2 &1/2 Hour Long Acid Trip". I'm THERE, people. :hippie:

[Fumesucker]

132. Heh.. We went to see 2001 in a very "modern" theater while were tripping..

Came out and thought we were still in the freakin' movie..

This was about 1977 or so..

[Blue_In_AK]

150. You, too?

We were tripping on the second row in 1968 when 2001 first came out...one of those big theaters with the wraparound screen. My head hasn't been the same since.

[itsrobert]

139. All the blue gives me a headache like the color control went out on the TV

Looks like something on my Grandfathers broken color tv in the 70's.

[proteus_lives]

142. Probably break even more or less.

I was unimpressed with it.

[Fly by night]

153. From this first-run film snob (60+/year): I saw it yesterday AND I will see it tomorrow.

I've done that fewer than ten times in 40+ years.

This is a visually transcendent film. Tomorrow, when I re-watch it on the big screen, I expect to be entertained as much by watching the periphery of each scene, because the vision of this film is so well realized.

Of course, this tree-hugger resonates to the film's core message.

I'm ready to start learning the Na'vi language myself.

Go see this film on the biggest screen you can. And with the most open and appreciating mind.

I'll leave it up to you to know how to get there.

[Fumesucker]

154. This link has an interesting video about the making of the movie..

As well as the "official" trailer..

http://www.gizmag.com/avatar-movie-james-cameron-technology/13628/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=8a9cce5f2f-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

[Deja Q]

156. Rupe was in the red for many years when starting FOX broadcast network in the late-80s

I somehow doubt he'll have to "Pull a Trump" and declare bankruptcy and get away with it, unlike the rest of us if we ever had to do such a sad thing.

[Alexander]

160. This movie is really not that great. I wouldn't pay money to see it.

I saw a free midnight screening on Thursday with some friends, because a good friend of mine works at the movie theater here.

Too cliched, the dialogue and acting sucks in a lot of places, very predictable plot, some parts are downright ludicrous, and it's mainly an excuse for eye candy.

I don't really care who makes or loses money off of this - it's just not a very good film.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

164. Do you know how big Newscorp (which owns FOX) is?

There are a billion ways you could contribute to Rupert Murdoch, not just this movie.

[high density]

166. The geek in me wants to see it for the effects

Everything else in me is saying to avoid it. It's overhyped and everything I've read about the story is lousy, even in reviews that are generally positive about the film. Just a month or so ago I went to see 2012 for the effects and beyond that it was a horrid film. I'm not sure I want to subject myself to that again so soon, especially for the extra $$ that a 3D feature costs at the box office.

[tammywammy]

168. 2012 was unintentionally hilarious

Not a movie I'd ever watch more than once. Avatar was really good. IMHO.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

167. No it couldn't even come close.

[Lorien]

169. Heheh, they've already made a 2 million profit opening weekend:

http://ontheflix.com/2009/12/20/james-camerons-avatar-tops-the-worldwide-box-office-with-232-million/

[MadBadger]

170. Well, the movie didnt cost 230 million dollars

However, its pretty clear it will make enough of money to offset the costs.

[Lorien]

174. Actually, that's the most accurate estimation of the cost

I've heard absurd statements that it cost half a billion. Nonsense. $230 mil is widely agreed upon as the closest budget estimate.

[MadBadger]

176. In the very article you linked to, it said it costs at least 300 million.

[and-justice-for-all]

171. I do not listen to critics when it comes to what I want to see...

I am a SciFi junky, a huge fan of the ALIEN and Predator franchises.

I am looking forward to seeing AVATAR and will do so, I like what I read about and what I have seen prior to the films release.

What is wrong with the story line, from what I can tell it seems to be about invasion and occupation....sounds rather familiar.

[Synicus Maximus]

172. Saw it tonight in 3D. It was well worth seeing.

It makes me think that Cameron just took the novel Midworld and made a few mods. But the GCI is most impressive.

[Lorien]

175. I really enjoyed Foster's Midworld as a kid. I kind of wondered

if it had been an influence.

[Statistical]

178. Two different brokerage firms UPGRADED Newscorp because of Avatar.

While it may or may not be a worldwide massive blockbuster the risk of a massive flop is essentially 0% now.

Worst case scenario Newscorp "only" makes couple hundred million in profit. Best case scenario is a billion in profit.

[Lorien]

186. All that money doesn't go into Murdoch's pockets

"points" are given to a Hollywood heavyweight like Cameron and his crew. They'll clean up, as they should, and make their sequels. The money will go to the proper division of 20th Century Fox, and hopefully that will mean green lighting more projects which keep more people in feed. Funny that Fox will be profiting more from something that promotes a strong liberal ideology for a change.

[MidwestRick]

177. Saw this weekend in 3d

There were a few times I had to close my eyes to refocus, but the movie itself was great imo.

Classic eco side vs the evil corporate entity backed by a military contractor movie theme.

[SOCALS]

181. This movie was extremely boring.

Not one fresh idea. But the corporate marketing machine will ensure that Murdoch will make dozens of million in profit on this flick

[Javaman]

183. Not by a long shot...

Having worked in the film industry, three very big things will keep this from being the biggest money sucker of all times 1) video sales 2) foreign sales and (the biggest one) 3) creative accounting.

If one ever does research on the various blockbusters of the past, virtually all studios will claim that they don't ever make a cent off of them.

faux movies and their like aren't in the business to entertain us, they are in the business to entertain themselves aka make money.

[BeGoodDoGood]

191. Great Movie, Don't Miss it.

I heard $230,000,000. A lot of jing.

Cameron's movies have made $3,000,000,000 worldwide.

Walt