Senate HCR Bill: "is a legislative train wreck of historic proportions"

[NJmaverick]

So says the Senate Republican leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell,

[dkf]

1. Hey I actually agree with the toad.

Whodathought?

[NJmaverick]

2. When you hang with toads you tend to get warts

[Laelth]

3. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

This time, sadly, McConnell is right, and I can hardly believe that the Democratic Party is willing to do this to the American people.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care

system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[truedelphi]

5. Sadly Sadly Sadly

The Republicans are right.

Probably for the wrong reasons.

But this "Mafia style" "Insurance Protection" racket needs to go down for what it is.

[Laelth]

9. Exactly. He's right for all the wrong reasons.

Just like my own blue-dog representative.

But, at this point, I'll take what I can get.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care

system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[NJmaverick]

7. and wrong 1438 times a day, the odds are slim on the whole being right thing

1438 to 2 that he is right

[optimator]

4. I hate agreeing with scums like him

the only other time was being against the wall street robber baron bail out.

[spanone]

6. that makes me like it

[Political Heretic]

8. OOoooh I get it ... quote the scary republican to make progressives stop telling the truth.

The HCR bill IS a legislative train wreck of historic proportions - just not for the reasons that McConnell believes.

The guilt by association logical fallacy is old, tired and childish.

[Laelth]

10. Indeed. That was the plan. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care

system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[NJmaverick]

11. The "truth" according to "Mitch McConnell"

You are free to spew it, but doesn't mean I have to believe or agree with it.

[Political Heretic]

20. The "truth" is the truth - Mitch's explanation or understanding of it may be flawed.

He doesn't think its a train wreck because its a complete giveaway to the insurance industry.

But we can demonstratively prove that it is.

He doesn't think its a train wreck because it does more to harm poor and working class Americans in the long run than it does to help them, but we can spell out exactly how and why that is the case.

He doesn't think its a train wreck because the power elites have once again ignored the will of the public and eliminated the one thing the public overwhelmingly favors - a robust public option. But we know that to be the case.

Your six-year old "nah nah you're like the bad man" nonsense is so ridiculous sometimes I wish I could meet the people that write just to see how old they really are.

If we disagree that's fine. Just say we disagree and walk off. What's so difficult about that?

[FormerDittoHead]

12. That's the best thing I heard about the Senate bill so far!

I'm reminded of those logic puzzles.

If it were good, he'd say it was bad.

If it were bad, he'd say it was good?

No, he'd say it was bad regardless.

edited for glaring errors.

[TomCADem]

13. Dupe

*

[TomCADem]

14. Right Wing Is The New Left - Look at Climate Change and E-Mail Gate

I never thought I would see DUers pushing the notion that climate change sciense is a conspiracy driven by big business, but the past few weeks I've seen that. So, why not have progressives siding with Republicans?

Democrats use to be pro-slavery, and Republicans were abolitionists. Perhaps we are in the midst of a new paradigm shift with folks on the left gravitating to the right.

[NJmaverick]

19. I like that catch phrase

:thumbsup: :hi:

[Political Heretic]

26. A grand total of no one is saying that. You are twisting and distorting the truth.

As per usual.

No one is saying climate change science is a conspiracy, since virtually all scientists not on political payroll agree that we have to do drastically more than what we are doing to reverse climate change.

This is the second post where I've seen you pushing the bullshit meme, and I'm calling you on it. What you object to are liberals who are upset at what they feel to be capitulation to corporate interests coming out of our environmental policy, thus they don't support the US work in Copenhagen and they are immensely skeptical about cap and trade legislation.

None of that translates into "climate change science is a corporate conspiracy." The corporate conspiracy, if there is one, comes in the form of attempting to water down all action in climate change to the point where it accomplishes nothing it should. And lining up scientists who work for big oil to give their opinion on climate change is a lot like lining up scientists who work for Big Tobacco to tell you how good cigarettes are for you.

By the way, a brief history note (and c.f. Howard Zinn, A People's History of the United States for more) The republicans were not abolitionists by the way, nor were the democrats pro-slavery. Pro-slavery feelings were the majority and stretched across both parties. Abolitionists were not associated with one party, and those against slavery came in both republican and democrats reality.

[TomCADem]

28. What? Where Were You On Latest Breaking News Last Two Weeks?

Scroll back and read the posts regarding the summit. There are a lot of posts by folks attacking the science of climate change based on a few random e-mails. Notice the second link below where I call a person claiming that energy efficiency legislation is a corporate conspiracy.

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x219962

And Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4158875&mesg_id=4159103

[NJmaverick]

29. That is scary and simply not right

[Political Heretic]

31. The second thread YOU started, the first thread has one person saying what you're saying.

That's hardly representative.

The second thread, the post that you linked to, has nothing to do with claiming that climate change is all just a corporate conspiracy. It claims that the bill being proposed doesn't do much to address climate change while being a major victory for businesses.

Your question you ask in that thread was, if the bill is such a fat cat giveaway, why does the U.S. Chamber of Commerece oppose it.

That answer is incredibly easy - so easy in fact I'm not even sure if you were sincerely asking the question. But just in case you were, the answer is because certainly zero regulations on industry is the holy grail and ideal for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. And, just like we see with Health Care, it is in the industry's best interest to oppose everything so that they can leverage more and more of what they want out of the "compromise" process.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce represents the ideal position for corporations - which would be 100% opposition to any and all government involvement in private enterprise. There's no reason for them to change from that position, even when corporations have successfully lobbied and watered down a bill so much that it costs them practically nothing and is loaded with special perks and giveaways (as part of the compromise process) that actually benefit their interests.

Opposing the bill only means more opportunity to claim even more loot from the bill making process. Because the Chamber of Commerce knows best that Democrats do not put their foot down. They will keep compromising and compromising and capitulating and capitulating for nearly ever.

So just because the CoC opposes a bill doesn't mean the bill isn't watered down and full of massive giveaways to the financial elite. It's in the CoC's interest to maintain a position of opposition as part of their successful lobbying.

Honestly... people can no longer afford to be this naive. "The CoC opposes it therefore its a good bill." My god people, what is it going to take for you to understand you own political system and how it actually works?

[mzmolly]

15. Oops I unrec'd and mean to rec.

Sorry. :blush:

[NJmaverick]

21. lol, no worries

:hi:

[cornermouse]

Yea, the great Obama hath decreed

that we shalt be given yet another burden heavier that shalt tip a lot of people off the tightwire and into the abyss. Yea even as the tightrope snaps and we feel our helpless bodies flung into space and then fall down into the darkness below, we know that Obama shall be there to catch and save us from the republican's evil plans to expand war in the mideast via escalation, send tax money to Wall Street and the bankers, pass a bill that gives the Patriot Act and associated spying on Americans new life, give an unasked for bail out to the insurance companies, and ban abortion or at least limit to the point abortion is effectively impossible to get for those unable to get on a plane and fly to a foreign country. I know!... Yes. I know!!!! Obama shall save us.

[donco6]

16. When you're right, you're right.

And hey, I guess I'm just being a BI PARTISAN kinda guy . . .

[NJmaverick]

22. lol, I love the irony of your choice of the word "right"

[donco6]

24. Yeah, I'm so right, it makes my eyes water. n/t

[Fumesucker]

17. You can bet your bippy that the Republicans are going to take every opportunity..

To point out any shortcomings in this bill, real, perceived or totally imaginary.

You'd better hope that there aren't too many real ones or else debunking them is going to become really hard.

Expensive health insurance you have been forced to buy but can't afford to use is even worse than no health insurance at all, that is going to be the Republican talking point they will be hammering from now until November 2012..

One thing the Republicans know how to do is hammer a message, 24/7/365..

[cliffordu]

33. Leave my fucking bippy out of this.

[Fumesucker]

18. You can bet your last bippy that the Republicans are going to take every opportunity..

To point out any shortcomings in this bill, real, perceived or totally imaginary.

You'd better hope that there aren't too many real ones or else debunking them is going to become really hard.

Expensive health insurance you have been forced to buy but can't afford to use is even worse than no health insurance at all, that is going to be the Republican talking point they will be hammering from now until November 2012..

One thing the Republicans know how to do is hammer a message, 24/7/365..

[Tailormyst]

23. On this thing he is right, but for all the wrong reasons.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Yep.

[Uncle Joe]

27. He's crying crocodile tears. n/t

[ima_sinnic]

30. so they don't like it either--will they at least vote against it, then?

sheesh, somebody has to.

or is he like Lieberman, playing his role in the grand con to make it appear that they "tried" to block it?

[cliffordu]

32. I love the people here agreeing wit Mcconnell...

:rofl:

I wanna see what we all have to say a year from now....

[Forkboy]

34. And Palin is all for the war in Afghanistan....like Obama.

Next?