I Sometimes Think...

[Liberation Angel]

That the voices here who want to see Obama fail drown out all the positivity and success there has been on many many issues.

I sometimes wonder if the right wing media machine manipulates the left and progressive talking points to the degree that good things always seem like they are bad.

After 8 years of Bush and 8 years of Bush Lite under Clinton (and 12 years of Rethuglican goonism and fascism before that under Bush Reagan) I am beginning to theink that no matter what Obama does that we are so jaded and suspicious and screwed up that we cannot see and will not see what the media does not want us to see: that Progress can be made in incremental steps and that we are doing an about face from 28 years of basically almost exclusive corporofascist rule.

Obama is doing what he is doing BECAUSE we put him there. BECAUSE he is not a corporofascist goon (he may be a pawn but he is not their goon).

He is trying his BEST to walk a path of progress despite the most horrific obstacles and hate and death threats and racism...and the mnipulation of the left by the new left corporate media

He is truly different and we, progressives, seem to be falling into the tradiitional trap of falling for the media-manipulatiion of the left that the right does so well.

It just needs to be said.

Too fucking many posters here at DU seem to believe that Obama is a total sellout.

I, for one, do not believe that.

He makes comromises.

Many of them we hate.

But he is really fucking TRYING to change things.

And the monster, the beasts, which opposes him and all of us, is still more powerful and sneaky than many of us realize. It can fool us into opposing him when we should support him.

Obama is not of the Beast.

He is one of us.

And he is trying...

At least I believe he is...

[Bluebear]

1. 'Too fucking many posters here at DU seem to believe that Obama is a total sellout.'

Yeah, what on earth would give them that idea?

[Myrina]

23. LOL +10

Indeed, where would we ever get that idea??

[Jamastiene]

28. +1

[MissDeeds]

Hmmm...

How did they ever come to that conclusion?

:think: Oh yeah! Because he is!

[AndrewP]

61. +1

[ProgressIn2008]

69. You made me LOL. Hee! nt

[AllentownJake]

2. His administration is doing some pretty stupid things

Politically speaking, opening up an angry left front, a year before mid-terms is about the worse thing you could possibly do. Fighting a two front war in the center is a guarantee that you are about to be eaten alive.

[MineralMan]

3. While I recommended your thread,

I am certain it will end up being unrecommended far more times.

[Bluebear]

5. 'the voices here who want to see Obama fail' - that;s unrecommend worthy to begin with

Who "wants" to see him fail?

[AllentownJake]

7. His strongest supporters

Their attitude demonstrate it more than his critics.

[Jamastiene]

29. +1

[AndrewP]

62. Exactly. The Cheer team.

[babylonsister]

8. People who only post negative articles constantly? People who

seem to search them out? :think:

[AllentownJake]

By reading liberal blogs

The same blogs that endorsed him in 2008.

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

11. LOL

Can't help it can you?

[babylonsister]

19. LOL, nor can you. nt

[Bluebear]

21. At least...

I never turned on you. We've been through this before, just leave me alone.

[babylonsister]

31. Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I've turned on you.

And I have been leaving you alone. I'll start again by putting you on ignore. That should suit you.

Oh, and Merry Christmas! :hi:

[Bluebear]

32. And to you...

Ruthie. Nice knowing ya.

[jonnyblitz]

34. good fucking RIDDANCE, eh?

:puke:

[Bluebear]

38. Holding our elected representatives accountable now is "negative".

Nauseating.

[AndrewP]

63. Don't ask questions! Just look at his picture and smile!

Honestly, I am more supportive of Obama than many on the far left (which is where I am). He's not much frankly, but I'm hopeful at some point he'll actually have to recognize the left in some of his policies if he wants to be re-elected.

But this bullshit where we have to "just support our leader" isn't going to fly with me. I don't BLINDLY 100% support anyone that doesn't support the progressive movement.

[HughMoran]

39. Sucks, I used to enjoy that poster

I've had to resort to the same. Anger is unhealthy.

[Bluebear]

41. Ah, but it's not anger, Moran.

You interpret feeling betrayed by those who I supported as "anger". I am the same guy I have been since I arrived here. It's you who has resorted to calling me angry and crazy and unbalanced. Isn't it? For having political expectations that are different from yours?

[HughMoran]

15. They search far and wide for negative articles

it's utterly amazing. I'd like to meet some of this warriors in person, it would be interesting.

[AllentownJake]

17. Want to have a beer sometime

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

20. Yeah, those 'negative articles' are SO hard to find.

Common dreams, a progressive website

The major gay blogs.

NOW. Naral. LambdaLegal. So obscure, don't ya know?

[AllentownJake]

22. Anything outside of Cat Fancy is obscure these days nt.

[HughMoran]

37. Sure

It would be fun. Like most people here, I'm a really down-to-earth person in real life who does indeed enjoy a beer and some hard-hitting political conversation. I bet if we all knew each other as real people, we would be far less likely to snipe at each other the way we do now.

[AllentownJake]

50. You and I would have a good time

[HughMoran]

59. I'm sure.

perhaps we'll get to shoot the shit over a beer sometime.

[MineralMan]

10. There are so many threads and posts here that express that

very idea that I wouldn't know where to begin. I'll leave you to read them for yourself. As you know, calling people out is against the rules here, so I can't give you a list.

[Renew Deal]

35. 1. You

Who's next?

[Bluebear]

40. Oh fuck off.

:hi:

[Renew Deal]

42. Merry Christmas to you too.

:hi:

[Bluebear]

45. You don't mean it, so why say it? Later.

[Renew Deal]

46. Actually I do mean it.

I like you as a DUer no matter how much we frustrate each other.

[Bluebear]

51. Then the same to you...

all the best for the season.

I still say fuck off to your comment, though :)

I want Obama to SUCCEED. But my version of success is following through on what he promised and to care more for people than corporations.

[silverweb]

4. K&R

:kick:

[babylonsister]

6. Thanks for a nice post for a change; they are too rare around here. nt

[DJ13]

9. He makes compromises.

That just by coincidence always compromises away anything the progressive and/or liberal base supports.

He has lost our support because he seems to think he no longer needs our support.

Who's fault is that?

[HughMoran]

12. Back in the old days

...posts like this used to garner at least dozens of positive replies and recs.

No more. The new DU is as you describe. Good is bad. Up is down. Positive is negative.

Support for Democrats is subversive.

[AllentownJake]

13. What do you think happened?

[HughMoran]

24. Unrealistic expectiations. Forgot what is takes to lead.

Very little about making the sausage has changed in my lifetime.

What do I think has changed?

First all Democratic rule since political blogs on the internet.

People think that if they scream loud enough, leadership will hear us.

It was true in the beginning, now "crying wolf" and "going to the well too often" have marginalized liberal blogs.

Tweety was right to laugh at us. We're fools.

[AllentownJake]

27. I don't know

The democratic party telling people that the government can't administer a social benefit program that well so we need a corporate entity to do it through transfer payments for the poor and a direct payment from the middle class with restrictions to woman's health care while covering erection pills and the policy of capitulating to anything that the New York banks want, because they finance your campaigns probably had more to do with it than anything you cited.

That and the idiotic move of calling Howard Dean names when he said the bill wasn't that great, than Rahm taunting liberals yesterday, probably politically speaking wasn't the best move in the world.

Oh, and Mathews is a giant douche bag who cheerleaded Iraq than claimed to be against it, but who is really keeping score.

[HughMoran]

33. You're getting into the thicket there,

My point was that internet posters think they can dictate every detail from the blogs and that being "right" is all that matters.

Step out of the thicket and look at this from a larger, historical perspective. We can be overly idealistic as a group at times. I think leading requires a certain amount of flexibility and historical perspective. Albeit imperfect, this HCR bill is historic and sets into motion something we've desperately needed to pursue since before I was born. I hope DU can work as cohesively as we did against Bushco again someday, else we squander this opportunity to be a voice for change in America. If we work to destroy the Democratic Party of which we share its name, we may live to regret it.

[AllentownJake]

47. Picking a fight with Howard Dean

Which is what the White House did this week, than moving on to picking a fight with Moveon.org and other groups is about the most ridiculous thing you can do.

There will be required some fence mending after this bill, and a head or two.

[HughMoran]

56. Step away from the hot button

Jeez, I'm trying to get you to look at the bigger, historical picture and you're drowning in the details of last weeks news. OK, so they have to mend a few fences - BFD - please try to get out of the "fight or flight" mode for just a second, would you?

[AllentownJake]

65. History is made on the backs of a lot of weeks

This one, was a ridiculously bad one, just as every other week has been since August.

Where the fuck are his people from the campaign.

[HughMoran]

66. Where has he strayed far from his campaign rhetoric?

Seriously - tell me how he's done things significantly different than you thought he would based on his campaign. I went to a rally later in the campaign (after the primary); I listened to what he said. I have the damn thing on tape for God's sake. He never claimed to be a progressive. He was always a pragmatist. His goals were always wide ranging, yet realistic in their scope. What has he done as President? A wide range of things without trying to "do it all at once" - it's exactly what I expected.

I voted for a man, not an ideal.

[AllentownJake]

68. Maybe you mistook me

The campaign was flawless in the way it dealt with things. He looks like a kite flaying in the wind.

The 60 minute interview followed by the bankruptcy threat this weekend was almost humorous in watching a God become a midget.

[HughMoran]

71. He is not perfect

I guess that's all I have to say. I'm not 100% sure what your point is, but I'm too tired to hash it out at this point.

You can bet there'll be many many more threads where we can get into specific aspects of his many decisions.

[Fumesucker]

30. A lot of us have the idea that leadership isn't going to hear us no matter *what* we do..

We don't have highly paid lobbyists and large checks to write to our "leaders"..

I don't know about everyone else but I'm more venting than anything else, I certainly don't expect to influence anyone in a leadership position.

My trust in our government to do anything at all right is gone, I think they are going to FUBAR everything they touch, at least as far as the common man goes.

[bigwillq]

14. And when WE, who put HIM there don't like

some of the things he has done (or failed to do) we will voice our dissatisfaction with it. And that's ok. It seems like---while there are many anti-Obama threads, sometimes just for the sake of having an anti-Obama thread---that when someone disagrees with the president, many here think "we" were manipulated or we are trolls or freeps. If I disagree with something a politician does, I will voice my dissatisfaction with them. Whether it's Obama or Pelosi or Reid or Biden or Kucinich or Boxer or Feingold or Franken.

He better try. He is the president after all. We voted for him to do a job. And some aren't happy with the job he is doing. It's that simple. And we're debating and discussing it on a DISCUSSION board, not a fan club site.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. +1

[treestar]

43. The trouble is so many of the posters don't like ANYTHING he is

doing. That's weird to me. Someone who voted for him is bound to be OK with at last half of what he's doing.

Yet I am starting to realize certain posters are ALWAYS negative. They don't like anything. Nothing at all. That's weird, when they allegedly voted for or even campaigned for him. Who could be fooled that easily?

[bigwillq]

48. Maybe they never supported him

maybe they are just doing so for the sake of discussion. Maybe they are truly angry and frustrated, not just at Obama, but at the party in general. What's just as bad, to me, are those posters who call other posters names because we don't agree with their point of view or are not as passionate of a supporter as they are. How progressive.

[treestar]

53. They seem to be against every single thing

And they do plenty of name calling.

I just think it a weird thing that you could vote for someone and then happen to disagree with every single thing they do when in office.

[bigwillq]

55. Look at our choices!

We only had two! Obama and McLame. I didn't support Obama in the primary but felt he was better than McCain. I still believe that, but I think the Obama administration has been just short of a disaster so far.


And yes, there are some mean folks on both sides here on DU. But that shit don't bother. People take things way too seriously on here.

[G_j]

16. that's your opinion

you are welcome to it.

[Laelth]

18. I prefer to judge people by their actions.

While Obama has done several things I like, the list of unfulfilled promises is rather large.

As SNL suggested here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgRZSLuFBs8

But on the issue of health care, I can not watch the Democratic Party commit political suicide and remain silent. In this case, it would be better for Obama to "fail."

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. "..the manipulation of the left by the new left corporate media." Say what?

And, I'm so relieved that "(he may be a pawn but he is not their goon)."

It is the responsibility of citizens in a democracy to hold their public servants accountable. Even if the have a (D) plastered after their name, make pretty speeches, and are only "pawns".

And, what are some examples of the "new left corporate media"?

[varelse]

36. I'm going to break a personal rule and explain an unrec to the OP

Your claim that harsh criticism and expressions of betrayal come from "voices who want to see the President fail" is over the top.

I don't want to watch our President failing; failure is definitely NOT what I wanted to see when I donated to his General election campaign, it is not what I was hoping for when I cast my vote for him (and I do mean FOR him - I wasn't "just voting against the greater of two evils" THIS time) and it is certainly not what I want to see now.

Sadly, to say that I see mere failure now, would be giving this President the benefit of an ever graver doubt. I am no longer sure if he is failing us, or serving the same masters as his predecessor with great success.

[HughMoran]

54. Presidential failure in 11 months?

Funny that you can say that with a straight face.

1) stopped Great Depression II (incl. ARRA which helped me personally & prevented many more job losses)
2) Pulling us out of Iraq
3) shutting down Gitmo
4) stem cell research funding ban lifted
5) Health Care Reform bill passed - been 60 years in the making
6) jobs bill

etc...

Kind of have to be looking only at the bad purposely to describe him as a "mere failure".

[varelse]

57. I do not see him as successfully fulfilling his campaign promises

I don't see him as even making a good faith effort to do so.

Questioning my own motives for expressing this opinion of our President's current track record is a personal attack on me, not a credible arguement in support of him.

[HughMoran]

58. You see my listing of his accomplishments

I am having trouble seeing your position here. You didn't refute my list of accomplishments, nor did you provide a list of promises he didn't keep, yet you have an issue with me questioning your motives? Seriously?

[varelse]

60. Yes, seriously

I have an issue with you questioning my motives. His "accomplishments" include the Health Insurance Reform fiasco. Clearly, you and I do not see eye to eye on that one.

He closed Gitmo but left the possibility of rendition and torture as a US government tactic open. Failed us on FISA. Appointed Wall Street insiders to preside over the largest corporate welfare giveaway in this country's history, and called it a recovery plan for Main street.

I am not liking what I see, but that does not mean it is what I wanted to see. Far from it. I voted for this man, not against his opponent. I am no longer sure he has failed, though. It is entirely possible that he has succeeded handsomely in achieving his goals - or at least some of them. I am no longer convinced that the goals stated by "Candidate Obama" are the goals of the President.

[AndrewP]

64. I will give him legit 100% credit for the lifting of the stem cell research funding ban

I will also say that his Supreme Court Nominations have been and will be better than anything a Repukelican would have done.


See...I can be nice too. Us "leftbaggers" aren't all negative!

[Bluebear]

70. +1

[Bluebear]

67. We are out of Iraq? Gitmo is shut down?

[laughingliberal]

44. With all due respect if your heart surgeon did his very best and you still died on the table, you

are just as dead. If it would make you feel better, I'll give him an 'A' for effort. But I will not fall in line with a health care bill that sells the American people out to one of the most ruthless industries this world has ever witnessed. I think he is great guy, like him a lot, love to hear him talk. None of that changes the fact that he's flat wrong on this bill. Is he a sell out or a human being in a difficult position with some nasty people obstructing the bill that would have been his preference? I don't know. Either way, his intent does not change the result that he is getting behind a bill which is not an improvement but, rather, codifies some of the worst parts of our current system and serves us up to the vultures on a silver platter.

There are some choices between blind loyalty and 'wanting Obama to fail.' But, carry on. Not the first time a variation of this false dichotomy has been trotted out and (sigh) not the last I'm sure.

[salguine]

49. I don't want to see Obama fail. I want to see his disastrous, malevolent "health care reform" fail.

[Moochy]

52. right off the bat misinterpreting the critics

"who want to see Obama fail" It's about the policy, not the person. if Obama settles for a bad bill, and people speak out and express a judgement on Obama's goals. or willingness to give up his base's agenda for that of the opposition.

FOR NO GAIN... each time leadership capitulates to the neo-con forces they ask for another concession. These are not allies. The ones in the cabinet are the ones with divided loyalties.

"not of the Beast."

ridiculous straw man. flamebait. noone is saying this.