No defense for the indefensible.

[ananda]

Whether the defense is serious or sarcastic, the indefensible
bill that passes as a sorry excuse for "healthcare," cannot
be defended.

The ONLY people it helps are those making huge profits
at the expense of patients and soon, both taxpayers
and patients.

If we the people, in our natural sorrow and outrage,
accurately portray the legislators voting for this bill
as sellouts, corporate whores, or even in the case of
a few, well meaning and good intentioned legislators
who feel that they need to put out "something," well..
the truth will always be the truth.

The bill is a product of pure evil, and those voting
for it are simply cratering to the rightwing juggernaut
mounted as propaganda and spin and to .. in many
cases.. their corporate and special interest backers.

[FrenchieCat]

1. So much vague generalities,

and so little time.

Do you have more, instead of just this weak ass rant?


There are $1.25 billion in new resources for community health centers in the bill, totaling $10 billion overall (there’s $14 billion in the House bill). I’ve written about community health centers before, which could provide a base of low or no-cost primary coverage for all low-income Americans in communities throughout the country. I actually think this is the best thing in the bill. Bernie Sanders is actually talking about this now on CSPAN. He says that 10,000 more communities will have access to community health centers with this legislation.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/19/whats-in-the-managers-amendment/

[coti]

4. You've been very sharp over the years- how can you not get this, Frenchie?

If you're going to force everyone to buy from the insurance companies, the only way to get even "poor-man's" insurance reform is to impose extremely strict regulations on them- nationalize them, in effect, de facto, like in Switzerland. Make them a placeholder. Allow them to make very small profits, but on the government's terms- don't allow them to even TRY to make money.

This legislation doesn't do that. It has some meager regulations but, with everyone FORCED to pay them premiums, insurance companies are STILL going to be able to jack up rates and find ways to deny people coverage. And there isn't even anything that creates significant competition. It's not that there "isn't enough for progressives" in the bill- all of what is left in the bill is actually regressive. On top of that, it further empowers the insurance lobby.

As Dean said, this signals a commitment to reforming health insurance through private corporations. It's going to make our insurance cost problems many times worse and a hundred times more difficult to address legislatively.

[Captain Hilts]

8. Getting rid of the ins. companies' anti-trust exemption would be a start. nt

[roamer65]

13. Not gonna happen. Cartels don't like that kind of legislation.

...and we're forming a health insurance cartel with this bill.

[Skittles]

10. if Obama wants it, Frenchie does too

[Thickasabrick]

5. What about abortion coverage Frenchie? This bill will actually

encourage states and insurances companies to drop covering abortions altogether. How can you reconcile your clinics with women being forced to have children they do not want or perform dangerous abortions on themselves with coat hangers?

Who will be overseeing the insurance companies to make sure they don't abuse the rescission loophole? The states do not have the time or manpower. The insurance companies have the money and the lawyers to make it not worth the effort to fight them. How would you address that little quirk?

Yes, there are some good things in the bill - but the bad far outweighs the good.

[coti]

6. Yeah, I didn't even mention that. nt

[FrenchieCat]

17. Most poor people that get abortions now, don't have insurance......

most pay on a sliding scale through Planned parenthood.

What is the Hyde Amendment?

Passed by Congress in 1976, the Hyde Amendment excludes abortion from the comprehensive health care services provided to low-income people by the federal government through Medicaid. Congress has made some exceptions to the funding ban, which have varied over the years. At present, the federal Medicaid program mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury.
http://www.aclu.org/reproductive-freedom/public-funding-abortion

As for all of the problems that you find,
the bill ain't yet in its final form,
and I know for a fact that it will not be worse than
what we currently have.

Ask Sen. Sanders, Sen. Franken, Sen. Boxer, Sen. Harkin,
Rep. Wiener, Mr. Krugman and others.

There is a myth afoot that some repeat without really being familiar with the bill,
other than a few talking points.
and I'm tired of those who see the worse in everything,
and because of it, prefer the status quo.
Status quo is the worse choice, and yet, it is the one
you all are ready to settle for.

You will be judged incorrect in the anals of history,
and I for one, will, once again, be proven prescient.
I know that sucks, but I can't help it if my lack of cynicism against this administration
allows me to see further than the nose in front of my face.

[Thickasabrick]

34. Excuse me? I was not talking about poor women - I was referring to

all women. Are we only suppose to care about poor people now?

This bill is now being opposed by Planned Parenthood and NOW. Women's reproductive rights are not political footballs - I don't care how many other people this bill helps. Our freedom of choice is not negotiable and this bill will severely restrict and hamper those rights. The bill is not going to get better - it will only get worse.

Read the NOW and Planned Parenthood statements.

I am so glad you are privy to the future......and please share with us how you were proven "prescient". That comment was just fucking weird Frenchie.

[PassingFair]

37. "in the anals of history"

Oh, hahahahaha.

I think you meant ANNALS.

"Anals of History" is more like a porn title....

[ananda]

7. Wait and see.

All I can say is that this bill is pure evil.

It's founded on the pretense of helping some people
at the low end of the economic spectrum whle it harms
many many more who don't fall in that low end.

It also harms special populations who need care,
particularly women.

It's magical thinking to believe that "Big Daddy"
is going to take care of us.

Clear thinking tells us that the bill is a crock,
set up to continue flooding money upwards out of
the pockets of the poor, the struggling and
dwindling middle class, and into the pockets
of those who are sociopathic in the nature of
their profit feeding.

Wait and see....

This can officially be considered one of ananda's
astute politico-economic predictions.

[HuckleB]

32. Exactly!

What's indefensible, is defending the status quo, which is basically what blind opposition to the bill amounts to, IMO.

[Richard Steele]

39. Pfft.

nm.

[regnaD kciN]

2. That's simply not true...

It will help a lot of people on the low end of the spectrum afford health insurance.

It will help a lot of people who would otherwise be ineligible for care because they're not healthy enough for insurance.

It could be a lot better, and would have been if we hadn't disgracefully caved to appease the ConservaDems, but it's still going to wind up better than the status quo...for some in need of health care, much better. And it will make improving it in the future much easier.

[Donnachaidh]

3. I wonder just how much future contributions were promised to the WH

You KNOW that people are making BIG money -- just from the way they suddenly are pushing to have this POS go through. I'll take odds on which big pharma company promised millions toward the Obama Presidential Library. :grr:

[ananda]

9. Good point.

As time goes by, all we'll have to do is look at
where the money goes.

[PufPuf23]

38. Don't forget the access to health care and quality

I do not understand why a "Health Care Reform Bill" did not address more and cheaper education for medical professionals to increase the number of providers >> supply; and cynically reserve extremely high incomes for the extremely creative and competent.

Its where and the quality of health care too.

Sometimes our society appears to have been distorted to the degree thaat base human empathy is forgotten. DLC.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. Please publish proof that Obama has accepted a bribe...

If so, are you suggesting we impeach him. Taking a bribe would fall squarely within high crimes and misdemeanors?

[Donnachaidh]

18. nice job putting words in my mouth

Did I say bribe?

[Ozymanithrax]

20. You wrote, "I wonder just how much future contributions were promised to the WH"

At best, that is quid pro quo, taking money to perform a poltical service, which is a bribe. If Big Pharma promised him money to sign a bill favorable to them, what would it be but a bribe.

If you did not mean that they promised him money so that he would be their go to man in the White House, then I appologize.


But if you did, and he did, then what do we do about it?

[ananda]

29. Straw man alert!

No one said anything about a bribe.

Someone did suggest that a lot of money is flowing
to get this evil bill passed, and that many beneficiaries
are in government. Obama could be one, and we know
for a fact that many of those voting for the bill
are benefitting mightily for that vote.

[Ozymanithrax]

30. Then you are saying that big Pharma is promising money before the bill is passed...

but there are no strings attached.

Sounds fair.

But we should all think before we make statements about money, who it is being given to, and why.

I look forward to President Obama signing the bill.

But suggestions that he is doing this for campaign donations by big Pharma are disturbing to me after eight years under a President who appeared to be a wholly own subsidiary of Big Oil, who was accused of fighting a war at their behest, after uttering 935 lies, and who we wanted impeached for that behavior.

[FrenchieCat]

19. You just say anything, don't you.....

make shit up,
and the saddest thing is that some will agree with you,
although you have not a shred of evidence or anything else
to back you up.

You sit on your perch and make pronouncements,
and somehow think you are performing a public service.
when that couldn't be further from the truth....
you are providing a diservice, and you don't even give a shit.....
in particular about 30 million folks. They are just not important to you,
as long as you can make stuff up and feel superior.
Sad.

[Donnachaidh]

22. aty least I don't come running to the rescue, to spin my ass off for my employer

Like YOU do every time anyone questions something Barack Obama does.

Make shit up? You're a master at that, and at marginalizing anyone with a different viewpoint from the standard issue from the WH and the ruling elite.

We'll see, when the time comes for Obama to start publically polishing his *legacy*, and setting up his library, just how much my comments will ring true.

[FrenchieCat]

24. At the rate of making shit up,

by Monday, you will be buried under your own shit.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. How many times can you say shit in one thread?

This may be a new record!

[FrenchieCat]

31. When there is a lot of bullshit flying all around,

somebody has to be man enough to just say it.

[Odin2005]

12. The state has no right to force me to buy the product of a corporation.

Period. End of Subject.

[roamer65]

14. Welcome to fascism.

[treestar]

15. What hyperbole

The right wing hates it as much as you do and on just as exaggerated grounds.

[girl gone mad]

23. The majority hates it, not just the right wing.

"Guilt by assiociation" fail:

[treestar]

26. that doesn't even say what it is that is opposed/favored

[girl gone mad]

35. It's a poll of poll on the health reform legislation, as it stands.

Here is another poll of polls to consider:

Health Reform Opposition From The Left

Although these questions show a lot of variation from pollster-to-pollster, the overall patterns and trends have been reasonably consistent: Most surveys have shown more opposition than support, and support has declined modestly over the last month.

Oppose: 51.0%
Favor: 38.5%

Support has fallen in recent weeks from the 43% and 45% range where our trend estimate had been from Labor Day through early November to 39% as of this writing. Meanwhile, opposition has risen from a range of 47% to 49% over much of the fall to 53% today. That trend is reasonably robust across pollsters, showing up on Rasmussen surveys, other polls that sample registered or likely voters, and traditional live interviewer telephone polls that sample adults. Again, the current level of opposition is slightly lower (47%) in the all adult samples than the likely/registered voter samples (53%), but that gap is roughly consistent with what we see for presidential approval.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/health_reform_opposition_from.php

[FrenchieCat]

27. When did poll matter to you?

[girl gone mad]

36. What do you mean?

Is there something specific you are referring to?

I warned about the polling on the financial bailouts last year. I said then that Obama was sacrificing too much political capital to rescue a few failed bankers. I've consistently cited polls that show majority support for meaningful financial reform. Taken on their own, polls can be inconclusive and even useless, particularly when the pollster is partisan or for hire. This is a poll of polls, which I think gives us better insight into the trend. As stated above, support for health reform has been trending in the negative direction for several months now, among Democrats, Republicans and Independents. Republicans and Independents have long been against this reform. More recently, even Democrats are polling against.

[HuckleB]

33. The "majority" would probably hate any bill offered, after all the TV nonsense of the past 6 months.

[Laelth]

16. Agreed.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[HughMoran]

21. It will help our small business tremendously

So how do you square that with your broad-ranging swipe that it only helps "those making huge profits". We barely hit black ink last month.

[saltpoint]

25. So where do you stand on the designated hitter rule?