If the Senate bill survives conference, and passes, Obama should veto it

[Syrinx]

It is not without a few good points, I'll admit, but overall it is a horrible monstrosity, that siphons money out of the pockets of middle-class Americans into the already overflowing coffers of the economically mega-elite. It's just another step in the USA's march into absolute fascism.

I know "fascism" is a word that we're not supposed to use. It is politically and emotionally "super-charged." But "fascism" refers to a symbiosis between the government and big business. What word could better describe a plan that orders, under penalty of law, that so-called "citizens," or better "subjects," be required to purchase any product or service, much less one so questionable as health insurance, such as provided by the likes Aetna or Cigna? And if you don't you get fined, and maybe sent to federal prison?

And on top of that, it can't pass the Senate without federal bribes to individual senators and their states, like Mary Landrieu from Louisiana, and more egregiously Senator Nelson from Nebraska, in which that state would get a totally free ride on Medicare, from now until the cows come home.

I remember posting here before that President Obama would not waste his chance to become a great President, but I'm having major doubts now. I don't know, for sure, what will happen in conference, but I suspect that the final bill will more resemble the Senate bill, than the one in the House, and even that one isn't that great.

If the Senate version survives conference, President Obama will do himself, and the nation, a huge favor by taking out his Bic, and driving a stake through its heart.

I'm sick and damn tired of this country being of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. And I thought Barack Obama was too. Maybe I got too caught up in the romance of the whole African-American president thing. I hope not.

If the Senate bill gets that far, I hope the President vetoes the hell out of it.

[FrenchieCat]

1. What about the 30 million that would get insurance under this bill? Do they not count?

Many of the uninsured that would benefit from this legislation are minorities. Minorities are most likely to be uninsured, and to suffer and die due to preventable deseases.

In addition, it is the lower income working class that would gain the most benefits from the pending legislation on health care. The most impoverished; the down trodden.

We are also talking about children with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance currently....as well as infusing big money into Community Health Centers to treat low income people right there in their own neighborhoods giving them access in the same way KO is working towards.

Why does providing these Americans with health care count less than getting the just-right bill that everyone thinks can be gotten (although I care to differ) or else the only other option is to just say NO?

I don't understand how some could be so concerned about our volunteer fighting force in Afghanistan, as well, concerned for Afghan lives, but somehow not be as concerned about those millions of Americans that will be helped by the HCR bill....to the point of deciding that gutting the bill is better than passing it?

I understand about not being overjoyed that this bill doesn't do as much as people anticipated. I also understand being pissed at those Democrats who don't seem to quite get the provisions that we want included.....

but still, at the end of the day,
to talk about killing this bill?

What kind of new progressivism/liberalism is that?
Seems like you didn't get too wrapped up in the African American thing after all.....
not by much. :shrug:

"Of all the forms of inequality,
injustice in health care is the most
shocking and inhumane."– Dr. Martin Luther King

Racial and ethnic minorities in the U.S. are more likely to lack health insurance, receive lower-quality care, and suffer from worse health outcomes.

Kaiser Family Foundation Briefs Examine Impact of Health Reform on Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities

A new issue brief by the Kaiser Family Foundation, Health Reform and Communities of Color: How Might It Affect Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities?, examines some of the key provisions of health reform legislation that are likely to have a significant impact on people of color, and it highlights the specific provisions of the proposed legislation that focus on health disparities. A second brief, The Role of Health Coverage for Communities of Color, examines variations in health coverage by race and ethnicity and explores the role that coverage plays in improving access to health care services for communities of color. (November 2009)

Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies Report on the Economic Burden of Health Inequalities

The Economic Burden of Health Inequalities in the US discusses how disparities in health and health care affect the economy, either directly through the costs associated with providing care to a sicker and more disadvantaged group, or indirectly, such as causing losses in productivity due to illness. The report estimates these costs to show the potential economic benefits of decreasing racial and ethnic health inequalities, including how it could lower the cost of health reform. (September 2009)

Urban Institute Report on the Cost of Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities

Estimating the Cost of Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities looks at how the higher rates of disease among different racial and ethnic groups place an economic burden on public programs and the health care system at large. It estimates that disparities in preventable disease rates among African Americans, Latinos, and whites will cost the health care system $23.9 billion in 2009 alone. (September 2009)

HHS Releases Recommendations on Addressing Health Disparities in Health Reform

The Department of Health and Human Services Advisory Committee on Minority Health released Ensuring that Health Care Reform Will Meet the Health Care Needs of Minority Communities and Eliminate Health Disparities, A Statement of Principles and Recommendations. The report recommends that all health reform proposals be evaluated for their potential to eliminate health disparities and improve the health of minority communities. (July 2009)
http://www.familiesusa.org/issues/minority-health/

They’ve banned pre-existing conditions for children immediately, starting in 2010.

There are $1.25 billion in new resources for community health centers in the bill, totaling $10 billion overall (there’s $14 billion in the House bill). I’ve written about community health centers before, which could provide a base of low or no-cost primary coverage for all low-income Americans in communities throughout the country. I actually think this is the best thing in the bill. Bernie Sanders is actually talking about this now on CSPAN. He says that 10,000 more communities will have access to community health centers with this legislation.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x76215

[Bonn1997]

5. Do you support ending homelessness by mandating that people buy homes? (Paraphrasing Obama himself)

In the long run, the few Democrats who oppose this bill for reasons other than being corporate sellouts (i.e., Dean, maybe DK) are going to look as smart as the few Democrats who opposed the Iraq war IMO.

[Syrinx]

9. I want money to go to help people

I don't want money to go to big corporations. This bill would suck money from middle-class people to rich people. It is a fraud.

[cali]

2. In what universe will this ever happen? Obama supports

it and will sign it. period.

[Syrinx]

3. even if you think the substance of the bill is okay...

Just think of how this is going to hurt Obama politically, with the outright bribe to Nelson... relieving one state from the Medicare burden. THINK! It's a loser all the way around.

[FrenchieCat]

4. When deciding on a whole loaf of bread or simply none,

What we are talking about is really the health of millions.

For you to be so detached and cold in this case, is well, cold.

I'll take a 1/2 a loaf, if that is all that I can get....
and really, there is no other choice that one should feel
that they could make, in all good conscience.

Happy Holiday to you.

[Syrinx]

11. I'm not cold.

Obama is the one being cold. I voted for him proudly. But I'm disappointed now.

[FrenchieCat]

12. You want him to veto this bill.......

that's not gotten to conference yet,
because it doesn't have what you want in it,
even if it does have positive assistance to the uninsured.

That's makes you cold.
It makes Obama get what he can out of the Congress that we voted for.

"Anyone who is “betrayed by their naiveté” should feel doubly ridiculous for thinking the change they voted for would come overnight. Status quo is not “kicked out of the door” like a weak, stray cat. Status quo has to be rallied against, systems have to be put in place to combat it, people have to put in work. Status quo will remain the “status quo” if people are too lazy to stick around for the entire fight."

[HuckleB]

14. Exactly!

Sticking with the status quo is simply not an ethical option. I want more. We're not going to get it in the immediate.

Further, we know the history of health care reform attempts, as well as the history of other social programs. Health care reform attempts have died because we refused to accept less than what we wanted. The status quo then continued to reign down on us. Other social programs started with less than optimal resources and funding, and have improved over time.

We can't let the wrong history repeat itself.

[Jamastiene]

13. I'm thinking now that my senator should have stepped up and

made demands for the vote too. As much as I disagree with Nelson's views on women's rights, at least he stood up and got Medicare for his state.

I've been thinking about that a lot, actually.

Maybe we should urge ALL of our reps and senators to start making demands for each one of our states before they'll vote for anything.

Why are the rest of our reps and senators giving their votes away without seeing what they can get for the states first?

Or are there 2 sets of rules, one for "the left" and one for conservative Dems? That is my fear. The left has been lectured to, put down, pushed around, hated, marginalized and brushed aside while the right wing of the party has been catered to and ass kissed.

[boppers]

6. You want a country without unions, without non-profits, without co-ops?

Good luck with that anti-corporation rhetoric, forbidding people to get together, and act as a collective.

[Syrinx]

7. wtf?

I'm against big business controlling the federal government like they have since WWII.

[boppers]

8. A corporation is a collective. Some are for profit, some are not.

Hating on all collective structures is an attack on collective groups having collective power.

And, lest you think otherwise, unions and non-profits are huge businesses.

[peace frog]

10. Dare to dream

and dream on because absolutely positively, Obama will sign it.

[Cetacea]

15. He should. But he won't. nt

[Laelth]

16. He promised us he would, in fact.

President Obama said: Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/obama_says_health-care_reform.html

And, yes, I think he should veto it. Without a "robust" public option (serving 50+ million Americans), there won't be sufficient pressure to increase competition and "keep the insurance companies honest."

Do I think he will veto it? Sadly, no.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth